And now here's the Class Action Lawsuit

[pmacher61]

When I spoke of class actions for bodily injury, I qualified my remarks by saying "in the absence of a contractual limitation..." I am of the opinion that the contractual prohibition against joining a class action is enforceable. There was a recent case out of California, the plaintiffs sued AT&T and wanted to be the lead plaintiffs in a class action, but AT&'s contract with the plaintiffs precluded a class action by consumers. Case went up the the US Supreme Court, where it was upheld in a 5-4 decision. the case in California did not involve bodily injury, but if I were briefing the issue I'd most certainly be citing that case.

 

As for expert opinions....

 

In federal court, as in most state courts, the judge is bound to exclude evidence that does not meet the Daubert standard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daubert_standard Some state courts still adhere to Frye. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frye_standard Frye is more liberal that Daubert, but they address the same concern.

 

Since these suits are filed in federal court in Miami, Daubert would apply. It requires a judge to evaluate material for scientific reliability before it can be admitted into evidence.

 

In other words, just because you say you became ill because of conditions on the ship doesn't make it so. You have to prove it by scientifically reliable evidence.

 

Thanks again. I confess surprise at learning a contractual clause prohibiting a class action is enforceable (I haven't practiced in many years). As the cruise contract apparently had such a clause, the plaintiffs' attnys have an additional hurdle to clear to maintain the suit as a class action. Though it is probably academic (because of the contractual prohibition) I still don't get how a class of plaintiffs claiming a varying degree of personal injury could be certified.

 

I didn't read the Frye Daubert headnotes you mention because they appear to be about admissability of expert or scientific opinion. I fail to see the relevance. Is there any question that noxious fumes/odors can proximately cause bodily illness and that a medical MD could so establish that?

[songbird1329]

Is there any question that noxious fumes/odors can proximately cause bodily illness and that a medical MD could so establish that?

 

The question posed was whether it could be proved. Hence my Daubert response.

 

As you may have gathered, my experience of late is in the environmental/toxic tort realm. Most of the cases I deal with are property damage, but I do occasionally see bodily injury...

[texsun49]

It would seem to me that the foul of raw sewage would not be considered toxic. I spent majority of my youth around the odor and often times covered in mud mixed with cow feces and urine. People that work with cattle endure that every day. I often fell or was knocked down in it and have been pretty much covered and encrusted with it at end of day... was not pleasant, and I stunk to high heaven, but never got sick from it.

[mrb1963]

these people who are filing suit--are greedy------AND THE LAWYERS ARE REDICULOUS----EVER HEAR OF RULES OF INTERENATIONAL--LAW--VERSUS LAWS OF THE USA--------CARNIVAL--IS GIVING BACK THE PRICE OF THE CRUISE----PLUS--FREE--FREE----GET IT----TRANSPORTATION TO THIER HOME--PLUS---$500. for the next cruise------NOW WITH THE CROOKED LAWYERS INVOLVED--THEY WILL GET NADA-----WE ARE SAILED---55 TIMES ON CARNIVAL----AND THINGS HAPPEN------BUT------THAT'S LIFE------- IRENE AND JOHN

 

Maybe you should walk in their shoes before becoming so judgemental. Also no report to my knowledge has absolved Carnival for being at fault in the accident.

[songbird1329]

It would seem to me that the foul of raw sewage would not be considered toxic. I spent majority of my youth around the odor and often times covered in mud mixed with cow feces and urine. People that work with cattle endure that every day. I often fell or was knocked down in it and have been pretty much covered and encrusted with it at end of day... was not pleasant, and I stunk to high heaven, but never got sick from it.

 

Raw sewage can be contaminated with e coli and other illness causing bacteria. But I don't think the odor itself is "toxic".

 

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[songbird1329]

Maybe you should walk in their shoes before becoming so judgemental. Also no report to my knowledge has absolved Carnival for being at fault in the accident.

 

Two things I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty.

 

1. I would not want to be subjected to conditions that the passengers experienced on the Triumph.

 

2. While it will be many months before tge investigation of this matter is final, it does seem from preliminary reports that the Coast Guard believes that this was an accident and that Carnival handled the situation properly.

 

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[JUGGER]

I hope all cruise lines ban these people that filed a lw suit.

[JUGGER]

I hope all cruise lines ban these people that filed a lw suit.

HI----WE JUST RETURNED FROM OUR 55TH CRUISE---THIS ONE ON THE DREAM----AND HEARD ABOUT THIS ONE---ALSO HEARD-----ALL PASSENGERS ON THE TRIUMPH-----WERE REIMBURSED THEIR ENTIRE TICKET---PLUS---TRAVEL---AIR OR OTHERWISE---PLUS GIVEN $500. for traveling and a letter--stating--a reduction for a future cruise--what more could these greedy people want-----but now that lawyers are involved----they will get --NADA---SHAME ON THEM---- FROM-----IRENE AND JOHN

[pmacher61]

Two things I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty.

 

1. I would not want to be subjected to conditions that the passengers experienced on the Triumph.

 

2. While it will be many months before tge investigation of this matter is final, it does seem from preliminary reports that the Coast Guard believes that this was an accident and that Carnival handled the situation properly.

 

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

 

No one doubts the fire was as a result of an accident (as opposed to an intentional act), but that doesn't absolve Carnival of liability based upon its negligence which may have proximately caused the accident to happen (faulty maintenance).

I am still of the opinion that fumes/odors from raw sewage over a span of several days may cause an objective bodily injury sufficient to constitute the requisite bodily injury necessary to trigger a claim for mental suffering damages - though I understand that the contract definition of bodily injury may defeat this claim.

[dockmaster]

Curious about the compensation...Did they give each pax 500 cash or mail them a check

The future cruises are in the computer I would imagine to be used when you call

or Carnival send each pax a package with all the stuff in it.

Anyone know how the gave the stuff to the passengers.

I mean how can you refuse a future cruise if you never call to book one? lol

[pmacher61]

HI----WE JUST RETURNED FROM OUR 55TH CRUISE---THIS ONE ON THE DREAM----AND HEARD ABOUT THIS ONE---ALSO HEARD-----ALL PASSENGERS ON THE TRIUMPH-----WERE REIMBURSED THEIR ENTIRE TICKET---PLUS---TRAVEL---AIR OR OTHERWISE---PLUS GIVEN $500. for traveling and a letter--stating--a reduction for a future cruise--what more could these greedy people want-----but now that lawyers are involved----they will get --NADA---SHAME ON THEM---- FROM-----IRENE AND JOHN

 

To all those people who bash lawyers for suing in cases like this please keep in mind that these lawyers work on a commission (contingency fee) basis. The fact that the client doesn't have to pay attny fees to start a suit incentivizes the passengers to sue at the drop of a hat.

 

The lawyers can refuse to take the suit so truly meritless claims are filtered out and rejected by sensible attnys, but if the attnys do agree to represent the pax they will get zero for their efforts unless they make a decent recovery. This disincentivizes the attnys from taking on totally sham claims. Also, bear in mind that the cruise contract contains an attnys fees clause whereby the loser in a suit is obligated to pay the reasonable attnys fees incurred by the winner. This also inhibits pax from filing bogus claims.

 

Nevertheless, there are unreasonable pax and some lawyers willing to take marginal cases so some bogus cases are filed. That some ostensibly meritless claims do get filed is a small price to pay for a system which generally works okay at meting out justice and providing incentives for the cruise companies to maintain safe ships.

Some might even say that the cruise companies have most of the cards stacked in their favor. In addition to lobbying for international treaties that will cap their liability for their negligently caused injuries, the company legal teams draft cruise contracts that push the envelope of permissable one-sidedness in adhesion contracts (take it as is or leave it). So, for example, the cruise contract typically contains clauses:

1. mandating arbitration;

2. limiting the venue where arbitrations must be filed to the location of the company's office;

3. prohibiting class actions;

4. restricting damages for all sorts of claims to the maximum extent allowed by law;

5. shortening statutes of limitations and requiring written notice of a claim within a short time.

 

The companies argue that they must utilize such one-sided contracts to insulate themselves from bogus lawsuits. That is understandable, but it is somewhat naive to harshly criticize pax who aggessively pursue legal remedies left available to them as necessarily greedy.

 

Whether the suit filed as a result of the Triumph fire is meritless remains to be seen.

[LHP]

HI----WE JUST RETURNED FROM OUR 55TH CRUISE---THIS ONE ON THE DREAM----AND HEARD ABOUT THIS ONE---ALSO HEARD-----ALL PASSENGERS ON THE TRIUMPH-----WERE REIMBURSED THEIR ENTIRE TICKET---PLUS---TRAVEL---AIR OR OTHERWISE---PLUS GIVEN $500. for traveling and a letter--stating--a reduction for a future cruise--what more could these greedy people want-----but now that lawyers are involved----they will get --NADA---SHAME ON THEM---- FROM-----IRENE AND JOHN

 

 

One small correction...these people did not get a "reduction" for a future cruise...they got a FREE future cruise.....

 

and since this happened on the last day of their cruise and all their partying, excursions in Cozumel were all FREE....they ended up with TWO free cruises.

[LHP]

It would be interesting to see Carnival do what RCCL has done and that is countersue.

 

RCCL countersued one lawsuit that I know of and WON a $2,000 judgment against the passenger.

 

AND put them on a no cruise list forever....

[Cruizinman]

It would be interesting to see Carnival do what RCCL has done and that is countersue.

 

RCCL countersued one lawsuit that I know of and WON a $2,000 judgment against the passenger.

 

AND put them on a no cruise list forever....

 

 

Wish I had a link to that story, would love to read the details .

[fireofficer5]

You are both lucky, I never got a dime :( *LOL*

I got $650.

It was about the way companies automatically ship products you buy over the phone.

[thistimeplease]

HI----WE JUST RETURNED FROM OUR 55TH CRUISE---THIS ONE ON THE DREAM----AND HEARD ABOUT THIS ONE---ALSO HEARD-----ALL PASSENGERS ON THE TRIUMPH-----WERE REIMBURSED THEIR ENTIRE TICKET---PLUS---TRAVEL---AIR OR OTHERWISE---PLUS GIVEN $500. for traveling and a letter--stating--a reduction for a future cruise--what more could these greedy people want-----but now that lawyers are involved----they will get --NADA---SHAME ON THEM---- FROM-----IRENE AND JOHN

 

I think you've been in the sun too long. Not condoning the lawsuits but I also wouldn't have wanted to be on this ship regardless of the compensation. They are still investigating and it will be a while before we know the outcome of the investigation. Who knows what will happen in the future, if any of these people will become ill, etc. Until you walk in their shoes try not to be so judgmental.

[cruise pup]

 

I think you've been in the sun too long. Not condoning the lawsuits but I also wouldn't have wanted to be on this ship regardless of the compensation. They are still investigating and it will be a while before we know the outcome of the investigation. Who knows what will happen in the future, if any of these people will become ill, etc. Until you walk in their shoes try not to be so judgmental.

 

I can't imagine how frightening it must have been to be woken up in the early morning to a fire then a blackout, the ship just drifting in choppy seas and not having any idea how bad the situation was. Compound that with the horrible sanitary conditions, especially if you didn't have a balcony cabin. I'm glad there was no loss of life and so far no serious injuries or illnesses but that's all in hindsight. The people were not kept well informed and the conditions were pretty bad. And face, many don't do well in crises and I can't fault them as that is their nature. Getting back your money plus something extra which I'm sure the cruise line will not even have to pay out to me doesn't acknowledge the severity of the situation (Plus the "free" cruise will mean more revenue unless everything like drinks and shore excursions are on the house which I doubt. Plus, if this was a matter of neglect and not planning for emergencies then Carnival should pay punitive damages. I know I won't be sailing Carnival anymore due to the illness I contracted on board Carnival Miracle in December and I just sold off my Carnival stock. Part of the proceeds is going to pay for my NCL cruise.