Park West Gallery: experience and strategy

[MiniJeffrey]

We've bought art on the ship before because we liked it, not because we thought we were getting a great deal or because "oooh! it's that artist!" When we first cruised, you took the art off the ship with you, which was much easier. I wasn't thrilled to learn you can't do that now and take that into account when we find something we like. On the Sky we purchased a piece that we could walk with that was already framed. It was the same artist as another piece we had. I look at it as - how much would I pay for this "print" at Pottery Barn or somewhere? If it's equal to or around the same price and I really like it I go for it. Otherwise I leave it be. Heck, I only started going to the art auction for the free champagne ;)

 

you mean cheap worthless cava? :p

[MsTabbyKats]

I go to the art auctions for the "entertainment value".

 

As far as buying....if you see something you like and it's "within your budget" then go for it....because it will also have that priceless souvenir value. As far as a "real world" value, it's highly unlikely you're getting "a deal". (I feel the same way about the jewelry.)

 

I won the raffle last year. The print I won was "not esthetically pleasing to me" and I couldn't just carry it off. I was supposed to pay for shipping. Whatever that cost was, I forfeited "my prize".

[lanceholt]

My husband goes to the Park West "auctions" when we cruise as he likes them for their entertainment value. Last year we were on a b2b on the Jade where the "gallery" is adjacent to the internet stations, with a couple of sofas nearby. We would sit around on the sofas and enjoy seeing especially the PW manager work their prospects....this guy was the greatest hustler since Barnum. He had people thinking they were fine art collectors by the end of the cruise.....couple of them to the tune of $30k or so. The last night, he was working the phones like no one I have ever seen.

 

Bottom line is there is a sucker born every minute, but I think it is extremely unethical of the cruise lines to provide space for these hustlers who have been in a lot of trouble over their "art".

 

We would never buy art aboard a cruise, nor expensive jewelry....

[MiniJeffrey]

I go to the art auctions for the "entertainment value".

 

As far as buying....if you see something you like and it's "within your budget" then go for it....because it will also have that priceless souvenir value. As far as a "real world" value, it's highly unlikely you're getting "a deal". (I feel the same way about the jewelry.)

 

I won the raffle last year. The print I won was "not esthetically pleasing to me" and I couldn't just carry it off. I was supposed to pay for shipping. Whatever that cost was, I forfeited "my prize".

 

The rafle for the $500 voucher?

[scopewest]

I enjoy viewing the auction pictures on the ships although we've never bought any. However, if you love the art and enjoy it on your wall and you can afford the price, why not?

 

My only complaint is sometimes the pictures get in the way of where I want to sit and look out a window!

 

OP, thanks for your comments on the subject!

[MsTabbyKats]

The rafle for the $500 voucher?

 

No, it was the raffle for a print.

[Steamboat Holly]

While on our cruise friends bought the same piece for my wife and I for our anniversary. I just love sitting in my chair at home looking at it on our living room wall.we know that meadow so well, it makes us feel as if we are there.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

 

We love it too! Every time I see it it makes me happy. We've never been there, but it's on our list of "must go's".

[MiniJeffrey]

No, it was the raffle for a print.

 

Oh yeah, they are really worthless, the cost of shipping is higher than its actual value :p. I won the $500 voucher for a work, so that was better :D.

[Phlames]

We were on the NCL Sky and did the art auction on our last night. I agree with most that they are a bunch of pompous asses and and look forward to my next cruise. I will tag a bunch and sit back and laugh.

 

Now our experience was buying 5 Thomas Kinkade "piantings". We tag the first one and won the auction as tagged. Next they bring up a total or 6 paintings and offer any 5 for $1000. Now, we just spent $450 for one, so the math is going off in my head like the fourth of july. DW is giddy about the chance to get 5 works (sic) of art. Now I have to deal with the auctioneer, their dude sitting next to DW and her big blue eyes saying, please!! I was backed into a corner with no escape.

 

After we went to the display area to pick our choices, at which time I asked, "We will get these exact paintings?, Yes??? Oh certainly, we will take these down and ship them to you.

 

Now the rub. What was sent to us was nothing more than a photo copy of the prints ordered, yes I know they call them lithographs but we were told we purchased "these" paintings.

 

Typical "BAIT and SWITCH"!!!! Never again. :mad::mad::mad:

 

So we sent our "art" back and its been sitting in there basement for a week waiting for shipping to scan it's arrival. Then we have to wait for NCL to send us the funds spent less a 15% restocking fee, which we can use on our next purchase.

 

So, go, tag and sit back and laugh, just say no to bidding.

[shepherdqueen]

On our last cruise we saw a print available that we have in our home. It is a personal favorite of my husband's and he paid $8 for it at a flea market. We did not stay to see how much it went for in the art auction. Let's just say that DH is even more thrilled with his flea market find! ;)

Edited January 15, 2014 by shepherdqueen

[artist47]

This is for the OP, MiniJeffrey.

 

I am an artist, and I can tell you that it isn't simply PWG. In your OP, you forgot to factor in the percentage going to Mr. Krasnyansky (or maybe I missed it -sorry if i did) --- I agree with you by the way, he is an incredible artist and very technically gifted. Much of his work lacks a bit of "soul" in my opinion, but I think that is probably due to his background: coming out of the former Soviet Union, being a "technical" artist as an architect, etc. "Soul" is something that is hard to "learn"....in any case, I agree with you that his work is very, very beautiful and I don't blame you for falling in love with it. Also, it is true that he revolutionized water-colour, although nobody (other artists) seems to be paying attention, which they should.

 

Now, getting back to your analysis --- I would say that you are correct in the main. The other thing that is important to understand is that PWG finances, at least in part, Krasnyansky's studio, where said "seriagraphs" are made. That is the reason that Krasnyansky is not carried by other gallerists. The same is true of Andre Bongibaud, another architect turned artist who is repped by PWG. (Although I heard through the artists grapevine he's pulling away and doing his own thing and Good ON HIM!)

 

 

Now, having said all that it is important for people to understand one supremely important thing: There are 4, maybe 5, men (no women) in the world who determine the "worth" of any art piece, whether they have seen it or not. Those men are, in no particular order:

David Geffen

Charles Saatchi

George Soros

Boris Ivanishvili

 

These guys are the men who determine the "worth" and daily average, of the art market. Until that monopoly is broken, and artists begin to rebel against the gallery system (which is starting to happen due to the advent of the internet in the last 20 years) it will continue on this way, and outfits like PWG will continue to rip people off.

 

But are they really "cheated"? I don't think so as long as what you, minijefferey said is true of them: that they bought the piece because they love it and for no other reason. At that point, really, a monetary value is pointless and meaningless.

 

In short I would say this: Money can buy many things, and most things have a price. But not everything should be for sale. Love should not be for sale. And that includes love of art.

 

Peace to all.

 

{PS===I just go for the free drinks and if I see something i like, I contact the artist myself, and do the deal under the table. ;) Usually a trade - one of mine, for one of his/hers. Over another drink of course.

Edited January 15, 2014 by artist47
spelling. :)

[artist47]

Giclées aren't art. Its a copy.............plain and simple. They might be signed by the artist but they are far from the original. We can argue this all day long but when you can make a thousand or more copies of something I don't consider that art.........thats just me

 

 

 

 

 

 

Completely agree with this --- and I don't even want to get into whether or not that make sthe "artist" a "sell-out". :D

 

Nice to see another artist on here. Pleasure to "meet" you Laszlo.

Edited January 15, 2014 by artist47

[artist47]

Thanks, it's like I've said: there is nothing illegal about selling overpriced stuff, it's all about the customer who is willing to pay a certain amount of money for a product. Some cruisers lose thousands of dollars in the on-board casino, so why not buy some (overpriced) art?

 

What is strange to me, Park West lost the cases but still managed to get fine art registry offline? Can someone explain that?

 

 

Because they have good lawyers and can afford them, and certain nasty but very wealthy people own shares in their company.

[Paraveina]

Also beware of this scam - the auctioneer tells everyone to raise their hands to get the "art", because he'll start the bidding at free (or something very low, can't remember exactly). Then as he goes up in bids, people drop out when it becomes too rich for their blood.

 

My friend still had her card up along with 8 - 10 other people after two increases and he counted the people and said "sold!". He did not inform anyone that there was more than one copy, or that he would randomly sell it to all of them.

 

Luckily my friend was able to call them out on this shady practice and have them agree to cancel the purchase.

 

Long story short: don't play along with a game that doesn't have the rules clearly stated, because they likely aren't what you think.

[lolane1]

I pretty much agree with everything that has been said. Another man's trash is another man's treasure. I know many mega cruisers that swear by their art buys on ships. IMO, I think they are convinced they got a great deal. But it is not my money they are spending so good for them if they like or love the piece. If you google the name, there have been some legal issues for the company I believe.

I actually wanted to buy something once but IMO the art is very tacky. But the part that spooked me was the art auction reminded me of a mind cult induction. The auctioneer created an environment where everyone was made to clap and cheer when someone bought something. The louder you would cheer, they would give you a raffle ticket for some piece of something. So even those watching, it was almost like you were being forced to cheer for people buying things. I really felt like a fish against the current because I was not cheering those people bidding and buying. Almost like the sales pressure of a time share. It really spooked me and I left. Too much time trying to convince people they are getting the deal of the century. Totally crazy and buyer beware.

 

Kool-aid anyone? Oh, maybe that's what the champagne is.

 

Totally agree. My friends and I play a game. We go through the art and rename them which leads to huge belly laughs. Of course, it's better with a drink or two under your belt. (not necessarily the cheap sparkling wine but if that helps, ok.) However, I love the game of tagging the art mentioned by another poster. I'll have to try that one.

[blackwing]

Forgive me for bumping up this old thread, but I was on Getaway last week. We had purchased a framed takeoff piece from Park West on our Carnival cruise 9 years ago, and it was a great deal at only $400. I think the reason was that on Carnival on the last night they let you go through their stock and they have some kind of "last chance" sale for some slightly damaged items. The frame on our piece had a chip out of it and there was a slight scratch on the glass. It was fine with us and we were very happy.

 

I went to the Park West auctions last week looking for a similar deal, and I knew I wouldn't find the same. The staff was a little pushy. On Carnival I don't remember any staff urging people to buy, but maybe they have increased their aggressive tactics. Some lady sits down next to me and says, "Come on, only $6,500 for a Peter Max! You want this." I looked at the lady like she was crazy, I don't have that kind of money to spend.

 

There are clearly some people that drink the kool-aid and think nothing of dropping $15,000 on an art auction at sea. This was evidenced by the auctioneer Conrad saying, "you know what they say if you don't have a Max", and some people automatically chanting "get one", followed by "and if you already have one?", people enthusiastically saying "get another".

 

I went mainly for the entertainment value and the free piece of art. Those free pieces of art seem to get listed on eBay. There's a sucker born every minute, because I see some people trying to list these free items at $50 unframed. Crazy.

 

The auctioneer has a job to do, but some of his tactics are a bit over the top. "How many people can even say they've been in a room with an original Rembrandt?" Uh no. It's a plate that was supposedly etched by Rembrandt, but he didn't actually touch that piece of art that was being sold for $25,000. Same for the "original" Renoir and the "original" Picasso.

 

There was a vase that was supposedly an "original" Picasso. I saw it in the display case earlier in the week with a "sold" sign on it. Then it came up for auction. It was the exact same one. So unless Picasso made multiples of these original vases that looked exactly identical....

 

There were some pieces that I liked, but I checked eBay during one of the port stops and found art by the same artist for far less than what they were selling it for on the ship.

 

Reading this thread is very informative. I had no idea the original Peter Maxes (the ones that were originals, and not just prints) weren't actually painted by Peter Max.

 

Next cruise I take I probably won't even waste my time going to these auctions unless I want some entertainment and find it fun to see people spend a lot of money.

[Laszlo]

Giclées aren't art. Its a copy.............plain and simple. They might be signed by the artist but they are far from the original. We can argue this all day long but when you can make a thousand or more copies of something I don't consider that art.........thats just me

 

 

 

 

 

 

Completely agree with this --- and I don't even want to get into whether or not that make sthe "artist" a "sell-out". :D

 

Nice to see another artist on here. Pleasure to "meet" you Laszlo.

 

 

You also

 

My fathers work, laszlobagidotcom

[Freida DoWhatYouWant]

My only three words about Park West are...

 

Never Buy Anything

[JetSet2B]

I fell in love with a Tarkay on my last cruise and it was a serigraph but I didn't know what that was. I was being heavily pressured and didn't like that so I walked away. Have no idea if it was legit or not...

[tonyd285]

I have noticed that PW has stopped using the term "giclee" since most people now understand that it means photocopy. Years ago, on Celebrity, I purchased a painting by Slava Brodinsky. It was the last auction on the cruise and late into the sale and I really lowballed, less than $400, and they took my offer. It arrived at my home beautifully framed and it hangs in my family room. My only shipboard auction buy in years of cruising. We still go to the auctions, enjoy the sparkling wine and watch the action. On our recent cruise on the Jewel a couple bought several Peter Max prints at very high prices. Better them than us.

[blackwing]

So a giclee is a photocopy onto canvas? I thought most of their "giclees" were supposedly hand embellished?

 

Photocopy or not, the ones on canvas look a lot more like real paintings to me than the serigraphs/lithographs.

 

I'm still laughing about the auctioneer's mock surprise/disappointment that nobody jumped at the chance for a "once in a lifetime opportunity" to purchase those dark supposed "original" Rembrandt, Renoir and Picasso etchings for $49,995.

[Delbankin]

In the past we have attended Art Auctions held on various cruise lines. A good number of cruise lines do keep the supply of sparkling wine flowing up to a point which was one of our main reasons for attending, along with the "spectacle" of the auction itself.

 

We do like the preview session where it is possible to sample the free sparkling and to walk around freely and look at the art. Some of it is quite nice. In the past we have stayed to watch the auctions.

 

Cunard had some very nice art on one of our cruises and one of the artists was on board -Fabian Perez and some of his originals were on offer - we were slightly tempted.

 

We attended a preview on our recent Spirit cruise (sparkling was in very short supply!. The room they held the auction in was very cramped such that one of the art team members had to frequently climb over the servery to wash out glasses and pour out more (or should that be less) fizzy stuff. Also one of the passengers knocked over a painting due to the cramped conditions - no apparent damage.

 

I made the mistake of asking how much one of the pieces was. The young guy from the art team asked me what I liked about it and where I would hang it. He then went off and came back with a price. I said thanks and he asked me if I was going to buy it. I said no. His reply was along the lines that if I liked it and had identified where I would hang it why wasn't I going to buy it? I told him I had asked out of interest. He became very pushy and asked if it was him that was the problem and if I didn't like him. A fairly bizarre question I thought.

 

Needless to say I became a bit irritated at that point and we left the preview without staying for the auction. This is the first time we have had any negative experience - normally staff are understanding that the majority of people are just there to have a look and not to buy.

 

I am assuming this more aggressive approach is part of the Park West strategy on NCL as we haven't experienced it anywhere else. At this point we are not sure if we will go along to any future cruise auctions - our next cruise is on Holland America and I haven't yet looked to see if they do such a thing.

 

If people want to spend their money buying art on a cruise ship that is their prerogative, but it's not for me.

[kcwingwalker]

My only three words about Park West are...

 

Never Buy Anything

 

Best three little words I've heard today:)

[Sika Dellick]

Best three little words I've heard today:)

 

 

I concur! The only good deal at PW is walking out empty handed.

[JetSet2B]

Are serigraphs the same as giclees? If not, what's the difference and how do you know what you're getting? What's a decent price for a serigraph?