There is hope

[glojo]

It is sad how it has degenerated and I guess we could say it has very little to do with Cunard however it might highlight how some folks might be unable to have a friendly discussion with a fellow passenger?? when on a ship should we make a little extra effort to get along? If we disagree with someone then it can be quite rewarding to debate the issue and find out what the other person is trying to say as I tend to find most disagreements begin with a misunderstanding??

 

Sadly it is a fact of life that a very small minority of teachers will be sex predators and I do not see any need whtsoever to highlight any single country and it is not a subject I want to discuss on this thread. I do feel it wrong how this light hearted discussion about well behaved children who are a credit to their parents and of course their country and schools has developed into this petty bickering.

 

I will ask that this thread be closed as I hate seeing these silly squabbles and

[Whitemarsh]

Such as me? As you know nothing about me this suggests to me that your arrogance and overgeneralisations truly know no bounds.

 

I'm done here.

 

Snarky much?

[MadScientist_01]

Snarky much?

 

Often :D

[Whitemarsh]

It is sad how it has degenerated and I guess we could say it has very little to do with Cunard however it might highlight how some folks might be unable to have a friendly discussion with a fellow passenger?? when on a ship should we make a little extra effort to get along? If we disagree with someone then it can be quite rewarding to debate the issue and find out what the other person is trying to say as I tend to find most disagreements begin with a misunderstanding??

 

Sadly it is a fact of life that a very small minority of teachers will be sex predators and I do not see any need whtsoever to highlight any single country and it is not a subject I want to discuss on this thread. I do feel it wrong how this light hearted discussion about well behaved children who are a credit to their parents and of course their country and schools has developed into this petty bickering.

 

I will ask that this thread be closed as I hate seeing these silly squabbles and

 

I can't help but feel that the overall responsibility for what's happened here lies with the OP. If we look to the Celebrity Apprentice for guidance the project manager takes ultimate responsibility.

 

Just saying....

[fantasy51]

I have come late to this thread but felt I'd like to add in my bit.

 

I am an ex-teacher (primary). I trained in Melbourne starting in 1971, the time when, as Louise points out, bright students were given scholarships to teach. After a break from teaching I was unable to get back into the Melbourne classrooms as the colleges had continued to train more and more students (at a lower and lower level) despite a falling birth rate. My Masters degree in education was of no interest. I moved to UK classrooms in 1993 and taught there until 2005 when I took ill-health retirement.

 

I noticed a huge difference between Australian and UK schools in the area of discipline. I was initially horrified on my arrival in London. The most challenging children were found in a tiny school in an Oxfordshire village.

 

I have taught with many people who had different approaches to education from mine, and some who made me wonder why they were in the classroom, but most impressed me with their caring and dedication. Of course, I can only talk about primary classrooms. I encountered one headteacher who was a bully, to some staff (well, one at a time as he was a serial bully and as one teacher left he would start on the next) and children, but that is something that is difficult to prove as it is a build-up of lots and lots of 'small' things ('small' when looking on but not 'small' to the person experiencing them).

 

I think in the primary sector that there are many teachers who genuinely care for the kids but can find themselves ground down by the constant demands of the educational system over here and the lack of respect of their knowledge and expertise. Experience is not valued; one is expected to uncritically welcome the latest educational innovation even if it is just a tweak of something one has tried in a different country or at a different time - and would not work well with certain educationally challenged children in the present class. Perhaps now that teaching is attracting those who cannot get jobs elsewhere, rather than the brighter students, then a more prescriptive approach is necessary to aid the teachers. We teachers from a former age are gradually retiring.

 

In my years in the primary school, though, I saw very few teachers who I would describe as malicious. I've met some boring ones ... but that's another story! I've also met some bullying parents. Previous posts were unclear if there was a difference between primary and secondary.

 

Basically, teachers are people. They have a very difficult job (which is often not acknowledged) and are not always given an adequate level of support for the difficulties they face. I wish we could weed out the bad ones of the type that Whitemarsh described. I also wish our society celebrated the excellent ones out there.

[seasidegal]

I have come late to this thread but felt I'd like to add in my bit.

 

I am an ex-teacher (primary). I trained in Melbourne starting in 1971, the time when, as Louise points out, bright students were given scholarships to teach. After a break from teaching I was unable to get back into the Melbourne classrooms as the colleges had continued to train more and more students (at a lower and lower level) despite a falling birth rate. My Masters degree in education was of no interest. I moved to UK classrooms in 1993 and taught there until 2005 when I took ill-health retirement.

 

I noticed a huge difference between Australian and UK schools in the area of discipline. I was initially horrified on my arrival in London. The most challenging children were found in a tiny school in an Oxfordshire village.

 

I have taught with many people who had different approaches to education from mine, and some who made me wonder why they were in the classroom, but most impressed me with their caring and dedication. Of course, I can only talk about primary classrooms. I encountered one headteacher who was a bully, to some staff (well, one at a time as he was a serial bully and as one teacher left he would start on the next) and children, but that is something that is difficult to prove as it is a build-up of lots and lots of 'small' things ('small' when looking on but not 'small' to the person experiencing them).

 

I think in the primary sector that there are many teachers who genuinely care for the kids but can find themselves ground down by the constant demands of the educational system over here and the lack of respect of their knowledge and expertise. Experience is not valued; one is expected to uncritically welcome the latest educational innovation even if it is just a tweak of something one has tried in a different country or at a different time - and would not work well with certain educationally challenged children in the present class. Perhaps now that teaching is attracting those who cannot get jobs elsewhere, rather than the brighter students, then a more prescriptive approach is necessary to aid the teachers. We teachers from a former age are gradually retiring.

 

In my years in the primary school, though, I saw very few teachers who I would describe as malicious. I've met some boring ones ... but that's another story! I've also met some bullying parents. Previous posts were unclear if there was a difference between primary and secondary.

 

Basically, teachers are people. They have a very difficult job (which is often not acknowledged) and are not always given an adequate level of support for the difficulties they face. I wish we could weed out the bad ones of the type that Whitemarsh described. I also wish our society celebrated the excellent ones out there.

 

 

fantasy51:

 

First, I'm very sorry to read about your ill-health.

 

Second: I think your post is fair and balanced.

 

Third: I totally agree with this statement:

 

Basically, teachers are people. They have a very difficult job (which is often not acknowledged) and are not always given an adequate level of support for the difficulties they face. I wish we could weed out the bad ones of the type that Whitemarsh described. I also wish our society celebrated the excellent ones out there.

 

fourth: I believe your retirement would have been a loss to the education system.

 

best regards to you,

seasidegal.

[MadScientist_01]

Just wanted to apologise to Louise D - I'm sure you are not arrogant, my comment was relating to your attribution of certain university-like traits to me as an individual -some of them may well be true of me but I prefer that judgment to be made by someone who has met me and can attest to it! Looking back at the post it came across unduly harshly, and for that I apologise.

 

These discussions are far better had face to face over a martini :D nothing like a robust difference of opinion to while away the hours in the Commodore Club

[Whitemarsh]

Just wanted to apologise to Louise D - I'm sure you are not arrogant, my comment was relating to your attribution of certain university-like traits to me as an individual -some of them may well be true of me but I prefer that judgment to be made by someone who has met me and can attest to it! Looking back at the post it came across unduly harshly, and for that I apologise.

 

These discussions are far better had face to face over a martini :D nothing like a robust difference of opinion to while away the hours in the Commodore Club

 

Thank you for doing this. It's not everyone that can step up and admit they've crossed the line, so kudos to you.

 

Louise makes an enormous contribution to this forum, not only with her wealth of Cunard knowledge but also her great sense of humour. This place is all the better for having her around.

[fantasy51]

Seaside Gal, thank you for your kind comments.

 

I would like to think that I was an excellent teacher, but I'm aware that in the last few years my teaching suffered because of my poor health (M.E. / Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) and ultimately I knew I had to leave because I could no longer care for the children in the way that I thought important. Discipline in the classroom begins with the teacher's self-discipline - and that takes energy.

 

It was delight a few years ago to be contacted on facebook by someone I'd taught 25 years earlier - who said she had always remembered me and wished she could contact me. Things like that are very rewarding to those of us who put thought and love into our teaching.

[Louise D]

Just wanted to apologise to Louise D - I'm sure you are not arrogant, my comment was relating to your attribution of certain university-like traits to me as an individual -some of them may well be true of me but I prefer that judgment to be made by someone who has met me and can attest to it! Looking back at the post it came across unduly harshly, and for that I apologise.

 

These discussions are far better had face to face over a martini :D nothing like a robust difference of opinion to while away the hours in the Commodore Club

 

Thanks MadScientist, I really appreciate that you have apologised and it is nice to know that we can be civil to each other even if we might have differences of opinion.

 

It would be nice to meet up on a voyage one day and discuss our experiences over a drink in the Commodore Club. :)

[seasidegal]

Seaside Gal, thank you for your kind comments.

 

I would like to think that I was an excellent teacher, but I'm aware that in the last few years my teaching suffered because of my poor health (M.E. / Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) and ultimately I knew I had to leave because I could no longer care for the children in the way that I thought important. Discipline in the classroom begins with the teacher's self-discipline - and that takes energy.

 

It was delight a few years ago to be contacted on facebook by someone I'd taught 25 years earlier - who said she had always remembered me and wished she could contact me. Things like that are very rewarding to those of us who put thought and love into our teaching.

 

Fantasy51,

 

I was right...the education system is poorer for your exit. The following should be posted in every Teacher's Lounge:

 

Discipline in the classroom begins with the teacher's self-discipline -

 

You and my better half would be great friends. You are kindred spirits.

 

Great teachers have great patience. They also truly like and care about children.

 

And you are 100 per cent correct...it takes boundless amounts of energy.

 

A teacher that yells and belittles their students, will have to keep doing that as they have lost the higher ground and authority to warrant the respect of the class.

 

 

" It was delight a few years ago to be contacted on facebook by someone I'd taught 25 years earlier - who said she had always remembered me and wished she could contact me. Things like that are very rewarding to those of us who put thought and love into our teaching. "

 

Yes, they are priceless.

 

My husband (who often can't remember to pick milk up from the store when asked:-) has this amazing ability to remember his students names and faces. Even though those faces have aged many years. I love that about him. He also never met a child he didn't like-regardless of their behaviour or aptitude. He just had to work harder with them. In fact, some of those 'hard' kids, became his favorite memories, as each step they took in improvement made his job worth doing well.

 

Thank you, Fanasty, for being a teacher that any parent would love to have for their child, I know I would.

 

You made my day!

 

I'm truly sorry you suffer from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. :(

 

It would be a real privilege, if in the future, you are a fellow passenger on one of our sailings. It would be an honour to meet you.

 

my best to you,

seasidegal.

 

MadScientist_01: you are a real gentleman. Louise, Whitemarsh is correct you add much to this forum. Nice to see this resolved in an adult manner.:)

[fantasy51]

Thank you Seaside Gal. We will keep going to Meet 'n' Greets in the hope of meeting each other!