More on kids/teenagers - Silver Shadow

[its_my_dime]

My travel agent, who never really understood why we were so unhappy with the large number of children and teenagers on the SeaDream two years ago Christmas, clearly understands now!!

 

She just returned from a trip on the Silver Shadow where they had many families and extended families with both children and teens. She said that the staff had never seen so many young people before and had no idea how to deal with them; and long-time SilverSeas cruisers were visibly and vocally unhappy with the situation.

 

So it looks like those of us who want the advertisied adult experience are going to have to abandon (luxury) cruising during the summer and vacation periods and find other alternatives. Too bad.

[Jim Avery]

Hi Its_My_Dime:

Let me know when you find it. We will be there. Cancelled our SD med cruise and are going to try Seabourn. Seems there is some change in SB smoking policy. Also refit this winter helps. SD made it clear they are not changing any policies based on our concerns. I liked the comment in past threads where the guy thought nothing of taking children on SD but would never on SB because it is more formal. Duh. The tux makes all the difference I guess. No tux, then rug rats.

All the best,

Jim.

[DisneyJen]

Thanks for sharing the info It's My Dime. It will be interesting to see if and how SilverSeas responds to the situation.

 

Jim I will be interested in hearing about your SB experience. Especially your hypothesis on the tux/rug rat corellation:p

 

Agree with your both ... even though I am a parent of a 12 year old ... that when you find that true adult cruising experience to share.

 

Another point too It's My Dime ... we cruised on SD the first week of December last year and we had two toddlers on board. Granted no teens ... but one just celebrating their first birthday.

[Jim Avery]

Hi Disney Jen:

I'll wear a tux to breakfast if it means no kids on ships marketed to upscale adults. Have kids too, just want to cruise with my Honey in peace and quiet. Will review SB too. Their site has no such threads and all seem to have a great time. Too bad, otherwise, we really do like the ships and crew at SeaDream. Not saying will never do it again but want some comparisons. Just want what is advertised. Hope you have a great Summer.

Jim.

[DisneyJen]

Hear you loud and clear Jim:D

 

I have yet to call SD to see what the passenger make up looks like for our November repositioning cruise from FL to STT. We schedule this cruise more on DH's availability than anything else.

 

We are starting to talk about next year's adult only vacation ... so I definitely will be interested in hearing a SeaDreamers' opinion of the SB experience.

Having a great but hot summer. Hope your summer is enjoyable as well.

[Sea-hawk]

Jim, what SB cruise are you going on? Of the 4 triplet cruises we have been on, 2 had kids on them,

 

 

Our first one to the Northern Capitals had a very nice couple, their son, his wife and their three kids 9-13. They always ate together in the dining room; all dressed up and had incredible manners. Other than seeing them walk in, or running into them in St. Petersburg, we never knew they were on the ship, as they occupied the owner’s suites, and toured privately as a family.

 

 

On another cruise to Greece and Turkey there was a couple who brought along their two preteens and a nanny/teacher. They occupied the owner’s suite and 2 other suites for nearly 3 months, feeling the best way to teach the children about history, politics, and art was to take them to Spain, to Italy, to Greece, to Turkey and to Egypt and have the teacher do hands on teaching at museums, markets, and ancient sites and such.

 

 

We really never saw them either, as the kids preferred room service to getting dressed up.

 

 

I am just pointing out that, even with SB being dressier than SD, you still might find some kids on board, but probably not to the extent others have encountered on SD, particularly during the holidays.

 

[hottie]

having been on 5 seabourn cruises in 2 years and loving it, we tried seadream last christmas-new year's

let's just say it did not meet our expectations in several ways, although the ship itself is great.

there were many children, including those little monsters belonging to the unfriendly and inhospitable owner and his wife, and a large family with teenagers

i don't have kids, and don't want them on my vacation, especially when there are no activities or places for them to go without being underfoot, like in the gym

it's great that parents want to have their children learn about the world, but i don't want to interact with them

we are going on seadream again this fall, strictly because there were so many problems on the cruise that an unsolicited $1000 per person credit was offered on another cruise, and we found one that met our schedule and ends up being less expensive then a 5 day trip

however, our expectations are significantly different, and we will probably not cruise seadream again

[its_my_dime]

... we tried seadream last christmas-new year's .... there were many children, including those little monsters belonging to the unfriendly and inhospitable owner and his wife, and a large family with teenagers ...

 

I am really sorry to read your posting. This was pretty much our experience the previous year and it would appear that, notwithstanding multiple comments from many passengers directly to the owner and to the cruise line thru the final questionnaire, via travel agents, and directly, Seadream followed exactly the same course a year latter and, from what I've read in other threads, continues to do so.

 

Too bad. Nice ship. Well run. But the message about children/teenagers is loud and clear and no changes can be expected as long as the owner (s) are part of the problem and not the solution.

[Jim Avery]

Hi Hottie:

Very interesting about the $1,000 credit. I was on the kid cruise in March and complained to SD as well as posted coverage here. I received no credit offers, only the statement that maybe I would be happier on another line. Must have offended the big boss and his kiddies.

Jim.

[its_my_dime]

Hi Hottie:..... I was on the kid cruise in March and complained to SD as well as posted coverage here....Jim.

 

When anybody calls SeaDream to discuss children, the party line was and still is that your Easter cruise had more kids on it than ever before and was highly unusual, and that SD actively discourages small children and younger teenagers.

 

While perhaps true that your trip had a record number of kids, it is now clear that issue of children and active complaints about them preceded your trip by well over a year.

 

The owner (s?) who bring their own children and are clearly aware of the reaction to large numbers of children have put their employees in the very difficult position of having to "misrepresent" the truth regarding the possibility of booking SD only to find oneself on another kiddie cruise.

 

Mass advertising to counteract bad publicity (by finding a whole set of new customers for each cruise) is prohibitively expensive for small ship lines so groups like SD need to rely on repeat business, word of mouth and travel agents.

 

This is, of course, a self-fulfilling situation. Each kiddie cruise alienates another set of travelers and their travel agents to the point where adult couples may actively avoid SD during the many months of school vacations and holidays and the line needs to overtly solicit extended families and families with children (by offering discounts) to fill its slots.

 

Ultimately, messages tend to blur and "avoid SD during holidays because of children" can become "avoid SD because of children".

 

It will be interesting to see how the situation plays out.

[Sea-hawk]

In light of all this, and the fact that they still encourage "groups", it would be difficult for us to consider sailing on SD again, which is sad, since we truly loved the ships.

 

They worked so hard after they became SD, not that they had a poor product when it was SB, but the additions of the balinese beds, and the reconfigured outdoor area, and gym were very nice.

 

Our favorite ships still tend to be the SB triplets, but for the Caribbean we loved the smaller SD yachts and the more casual atire.

 

Not only are we loosing out, but they seem to be shooting themselves in the foot. They seem to have put quite a bit of thought into developing and marketing their product, only to not follow through.

[frequent traveler]

hottie -

 

we agree with you so much on the impact of the owner's attitude and children, such that the only way we will cruise SD again will be to charter the boat (working on now for 2006) or to take our own children which defeats the purpose of getting away on a romantic trip (hard to relax with your significant other when you're worried about a small child falling overboard when his parents or nanny aren't attentive watching)

 

We were on the same cruise as Jim, and only got an offer of a $500 credit against future voyages. I suspect we obtained that only because the wonderful staff member I am working with on the charter went to customer service.

 

What I find particularly disturbing is the SD's approach to marketing -- from stating that caviar is always available (which it is, but not always included in the "included rate") to the Easter cruise being an exception (which it isn't) to the "blended rate" of port charges regardless of the actual costs (especially since we all know it costs more to dock right at the port as opposed to tenders). I know the Scandinavian/European culture depends substantially less on litigation than the US, but I think SD is setting itself up for a deceptive trade practice suit here in the US in addition to the extremely poor word of mouth in the luxury cruise segment.

 

FT

[carlylecat]

Do the companies bookings reflect this "bad word of mouth"?

 

Our ship was sold out and the attitude was that furture sailings were booking well,

 

Are they being arrogant (...allways available.... is pretty cheesy) because the entire industry is strong?

 

if so, the fall can be mighty rough when the winds change, and it only takes one event....

[Jim Avery]

Hi Its My Dime:

I'll try again. My last reply was removed by Host Dan. Must have worded it poorly. I wanted to agree with you about the concept that more kids lead to more kids. Carlylecat's review refers to a few small children and 10 or so teens. This works out to approx. 15% kids on this trip. The world record Kid Cruise in march was approx. 30%. This is too much. This is a percentage of kids like you would find on any mass market ship. The big difference is that there are facilities for them on the big ships. Also, sad to hear of the new charges. Fully agree, raise prices if you must but keep the quality experience intact. Its time for a vacation isnt it?

Jim.

[DisneyJen]

I wonder if they still will have the champagne and caviar splash when we sail in November? I can't believe that they did not mention the new charge for caviar until folks boarded the ship as mentioned in the other post by cburger100 in the caviar thread.

 

Sounds like the folks in marketing have either changed or are asleep at the wheel:eek:

[its_my_dime]

Hi Its My Dime:

I'll try again. My last reply was removed by Host Dan. Must have worded it poorly. I wanted to agree with you about the concept that more kids lead to more kids. Carlylecat's review refers to a few small children and 10 or so teens. This works out to approx. 15% kids on this trip. The world record Kid Cruise in march was approx. 30%. Jim.

 

Jim: Let me suggest another way to do the math.

 

In my experience, couples with children hang around with (meals, day trips) either their own children or others with similar aged children.

 

So, assuming that a each pair of children have their own cabin...8 families (couples with children) means only 16 children but 32 people or 1/3 of the ship basically unavailable to interact with the rest of the passengers. Under the same assumption, 30 children means 60 people out of circulation leaving only 20 couples (including yourselves) to interact with.

 

Not a good scene in our opinion.

[hottie]

i'm glad to see that i'm not the only person feeling disappointed

we love seabourn, but our schedules don't always allow their itinerary

 

we have also heard that seadream is actively pursuing the charter market and that is the ultimate goal for them

 

sadly, the ship is great but we did not feel the ambiance we have experienced on seabourn, and we had only 85 passengers on board

 

did not find the staff accomodating or particularly interested- they don' t even communicate witht the ship when at a port- ask about the day they respositioned because of the rough seas and left us waiting after our tour at a deserted building. there was no one with the information that for 3 hours we could have stayed in playa del carmen and been shuttled back.

 

the bartenders are the best staff on seadream- they are friendly and attentive

 

as i said, my return sailing is because i have a great price and low expectations, but know i will enjoy the ship and my vacation time despite the atmosphere potentially being less then ideal