Disney Cruise Line Adds Lifeguards

[Ex techie]

Some here. We were specifically told to never apologize, in any way accept blame, or to render any type of medical or other assistance unless it was to remove someone from immediate danger, and to call for medical/police. I still remember that part of Traditions ( which was part of the whole LP segment) very clearly.

 

 

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We were also told to ask a minimum of three times if the person would wish medical help and have other crew members around if possible to witness. Not necessarily to be of assistance. A Witness

Thankfully only had to call for a medical team once when a guy slumped over on the railing in the starboard gazebo after a big night in Key West was next to unconscious. Managed to get a YAC to watch me lying him down and provide a towel for his head whilst a server called for the medical team and Quarter Masters.

 

Bloody accident lawyers!

 

ex techie

Edited November 3, 2013 by Ex techie

[Tonka's Skipper]

We were also told to ask a minimum of three times if the person would wish medical help and have other crew members around if possible to witness. Not necessarily to be of assistance. A Witness

Thankfully only had to call for a medical team once when a guy slumped over on the railing in the starboard gazebo after a big night in Key West was next to unconscious. Managed to get a YAC to watch me lying him down and provide a towel for his head whilst a server called for the medical team and Quarter Masters.

 

Bloody accident lawyers!

 

ex techie

 

 

Back in the day, we were told to call for help and then start CPR...............That was Red Cross, Maritime and any other group I know of.

 

Maybe now because of the legal issues, the safely of a human life is put behind the legal issues. I don't know about any one else, but if I have someone not breathing to hell with the legal and I call someone to go for help and immediately start CPR, if is costs me my job..........fine, at least I would be able to sleep at night knowing I didn't waste time reciting a legal disclaimer and getting a witness list together.

 

 

AKK

Edited November 3, 2013 by Tonka's Skipper

[ducklite]

Back in the day' date=' we were told to call for help and then start CPR...............That was Red Cross, Maritime and any other group I know of.

 

Maybe now because of the legal issues, the safely of a human life is put behind the legal issues. I don't know about any one else, but if I have someone not breathing to hell with the legal and I call someone to go for help and immediately start CPR, if is costs me my job..........fine, at least I would be able to sleep at night knowing I didn't waste time reciting a legal disclaimer and getting a witness list together.

 

 

AKK[/quote']

 

My husband is a Red Cross CPR instructor. Call for help is still #1.

 

Step # 2 will depend on any number of things, including corporate policy.

 

My husbands company has a great policy. They offer free CPR training to any employee who wants it. If a person doesn't have a CPR certification on file, it is company policy that they are not to perform CPR. About 15% of the employees have taken the course (which is offered during business hours at no cost to the employee for the training or loss of PTO). It's a logical win-win where the company can be sure that anyone rendering aid has a clue what they are doing and isn't pounding on the chest if someone who has simply passed out due to low blood sugar or something along those lines.

 

 

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[Tonka's Skipper]

My husband is a Red Cross CPR instructor. Call for help is still #1.

 

Step # 2 will depend on any number of things, including corporate policy.

 

My husbands company has a great policy. They offer free CPR training to any employee who wants it. If a person doesn't have a CPR certification on file, it is company policy that they are not to perform CPR. About 15% of the employees have taken the course (which is offered during business hours at no cost to the employee for the training or loss of PTO). It's a logical win-win where the company can be sure that anyone rendering aid has a clue what they are doing and isn't pounding on the chest if someone who has simply passed out due to low blood sugar or something along those lines.

 

 

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Hi Ducklite!

 

I agree just as I wrote. call for hell and then star CPR.................now if you don't have training, I agree again, you can do more harm then good. A trained person will not pound on the chest.

 

My comments are regarding trained people.

 

AKK

[MizDaisy]

Back in the day' date=' we were told to call for help and then start CPR...............That was Red Cross, Maritime and any other group I know of.

 

Maybe now because of the legal issues, the safely of a human life is put behind the legal issues. I don't know about any one else, but if I have someone not breathing to hell with the legal and I call someone to go for help and immediately start CPR, if is costs me my job..........fine, at least I would be able to sleep at night knowing I didn't waste time reciting a legal disclaimer and getting a witness list together.

 

 

AKK[/quote']

 

 

 

I wonder if the difference is in the type of vessel you were on. :confused:

In your case, wasn't it manned by all seamen? In that case, everyone onboard is an "employee" and has probably signed or agreed to a certain amount of care or coverage, or even agreed not to sue in the event of an accident.

 

But with a cruise ship and passengers, I think liability is a HUGE factor.

 

I have to say that in my experience with an accident onboard, what happened to me is exactly as Techie described.....no one was about to touch me until the nurse from the Medical Center arrived. I am not complaining.....not at all.....just saying that I was asked if I wanted/needed attention, and nothing further.

Also, while I was being treated, a call came in for the nurse to go to the pool deck, where a young boy had cut his head. When the nurse returned, she was a little put out, because she said it was something that the parents....or some other adult.....could have handled without her. I got the impression from our further discussion that the policy WAS as such that she, one of the other nurses, or the doctor, were to be called for EVERYTHING.

[MizDaisy]

As far as learning CPR.....I wanted to add that although I was trained and certified, I have always kept instructional posters pinned up behind the nearest door to where our swimming pool at home is located.

If one of my kids, or one of their friends had needed it, I didn't want to rely on just memory....especially because I probably would be a little panicked....

 

So it really eases my mind, knowing that large, step-by-step instructions with pictures are always right there.

[Tonka's Skipper]

I wonder if the difference is in the type of vessel you were on. :confused:

In your case, wasn't it manned by all seamen? In that case, everyone onboard is an "employee" and has probably signed or agreed to a certain amount of care or coverage, or even agreed not to sue in the event of an accident.

 

But with a cruise ship and passengers, I think liability is a HUGE factor.

 

I have to say that in my experience with an accident onboard, what happened to me is exactly as Techie described.....no one was about to touch me until the nurse from the Medical Center arrived. I am not complaining.....not at all.....just saying that I was asked if I wanted/needed attention, and nothing further.

Also, while I was being treated, a call came in for the nurse to go to the pool deck, where a young boy had cut his head. When the nurse returned, she was a little put out, because she said it was something that the parents....or some other adult.....could have handled without her. I got the impression from our further discussion that the policy WAS as such that she, one of the other nurses, or the doctor, were to be called for EVERYTHING.

 

Hi Daisy,

 

I don't think I am making myself clear.

 

I am talking about someone not breathing and of course not conscious.

 

I agree, if some is able to speak, they should have the right to ask or refuse aid.

 

My point was and as I was instructed in lifeguard training and at sea, if someone is not breathing, you call for help and start CPR. Not do a legal check list and get witnesses, to hell with the legal stuff, when someone maybe dyeing.

 

Also I am not saying anyone else needs act as I would, to each there own!.......This is the way I would act.

 

AKK

[ducklite]

I wonder if the difference is in the type of vessel you were on. :confused:

In your case, wasn't it manned by all seamen? In that case, everyone onboard is an "employee" and has probably signed or agreed to a certain amount of care or coverage, or even agreed not to sue in the event of an accident.

 

But with a cruise ship and passengers, I think liability is a HUGE factor.

 

I have to say that in my experience with an accident onboard, what happened to me is exactly as Techie described.....no one was about to touch me until the nurse from the Medical Center arrived. I am not complaining.....not at all.....just saying that I was asked if I wanted/needed attention, and nothing further.

Also, while I was being treated, a call came in for the nurse to go to the pool deck, where a young boy had cut his head. When the nurse returned, she was a little put out, because she said it was something that the parents....or some other adult.....could have handled without her. I got the impression from our further discussion that the policy WAS as such that she, one of the other nurses, or the doctor, were to be called for EVERYTHING.

 

Blood or bleeding on the pool deck and a head wound of any sort should be an automatic call for a first responder. You want someone with gloves to check out the wound and assess the possibility of hidden trauma. Also you want someone trained in biohazards to supervise any clean up. I won't touch an injured person without gloves, no matter what. I carry them in my car, pocketbook, and briefcase. My husband won't even go to the neighbors for a glass of wine without a pair in his pocket.

 

 

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[ducklite]

As far as learning CPR.....I wanted to add that although I was trained and certified, I have always kept instructional posters pinned up behind the nearest door to where our swimming pool at home is located.

If one of my kids, or one of their friends had needed it, I didn't want to rely on just memory....especially because I probably would be a little panicked....

 

So it really eases my mind, knowing that large, step-by-step instructions with pictures are always right there.

 

If you haven't been decertified in more than two years, go take the class again. They've made significant changes to single rescuer adult CPR.

 

 

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[MizDaisy]

Hi Daisy' date='

 

I don't think I am making myself clear.

 

I am talking about someone not breathing and of course not conscious.

 

I agree, if some is able to speak, they should have the right to ask or refuse aid.

 

My point was and as I was instructed in lifeguard training and at sea, if someone is not breathing, you call for help and start CPR. Not do a legal check list and get witnesses, to hell with the legal stuff, when someone maybe dyeing.

 

Also I am not saying anyone else needs act as I would, to each there own!.......This is the way I would act.

 

AKK[/quote']

 

I absolutely agree with you....I wouldn't be able to just stand by and do nothing....but any more, it has to be in the back of your (or my) head, that if you do something wrong, or even if you do everything correctly, and there's still a bad outcome, someone could sue you (or me). But I'd still do it, anyway.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of the difference in what crew members are taught to do on different types of vessels. Or for example, at our welding shop, any of us can and will render aid if someone is hurt, because we all have an unstated agreement that it is what we all would want....because we're a team.

Whereas, on a cruise ship, I wonder if untrained crew members are trained (like Techie said) to call for help ONLY.....and like you said, simply because of the liability issues.

[MizDaisy]

Blood or bleeding on the pool deck and a head wound of any sort should be an automatic call for a first responder. You want someone with gloves to check out the wound and assess the possibility of hidden trauma. Also you want someone trained in biohazards to supervise any clean up. I won't touch an injured person without gloves, no matter what. I carry them in my car, pocketbook, and briefcase. My husband won't even go to the neighbors for a glass of wine without a pair in his pocket.

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

 

 

 

I agree....even when working at my son's preschool, they treated any blood as a biohazard, and everyone should be careful, always.

 

All I meant was that the nurse seemed to be saying that it was really, really minor, and from our conversation, it sounded like she was wishing that the CM's on deck could learn to handle some of the more minor problems.

 

So what it comes down to, in my mind, is that if the new lifeguards are trained to handle minor issues, that would be great for everyone. If they still are only allowed to pull someone out of the water, and only allowed to call Medical for assistance, treatment, etc....then I think they should be trained. But again, that really is a huge liability issue for the cruise line.

[MizDaisy]

If you haven't been decertified in more than two years, go take the class again. They've made significant changes to single rescuer adult CPR.

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

 

 

I should....it's been at least 4 years......

[ducklite]

I agree....even when working at my son's preschool, they treated any blood as a biohazard, and everyone should be careful, always.

 

All I meant was that the nurse seemed to be saying that it was really, really minor, and from our conversation, it sounded like she was wishing that the CM's on deck could learn to handle some of the more minor problems.

 

So what it comes down to, in my mind, is that if the new lifeguards are trained to handle minor issues, that would be great for everyone. If they still are only allowed to pull someone out of the water, and only allowed to call Medical for assistance, treatment, etc....then I think they should be trained. But again, that really is a huge liability issue for the cruise line.

 

A head injury can sometimes seem minor on the outside. No blood. A bump. But inside it can be quite serious with a brain bleed or swelling which can cause death if not treated aggressively. Or there could be a cervical compression that isn't felt right away. Add to that the reason for the fall. A wet deck? Or someone who lost balance due to dropping blood sugar, a stroke, or any number of other issues. These types of incidents should always be taken seriously until a medical professional can rule out hidden impairment causing or caused by the injury.

 

This is not something a lifeguard is trained to determine. It needs to be determined by not only speaking to the patient and judging their level of alertness, pain, and lucidity, but also looking for symptoms such as slurred speech, pupil reaction, muscle weakness, nausea, as well as clinical tests such as BP and pulse. How the person landed needs to be determined, how hard, where they hit, there is so much more. To be honest, it concerns me that the nurse was so flippant about it, considering head injury is one of the leading causes of permanent brain damage. Even if it was minor, a head injury calls for evaluation by a medical professional, not a lifeguard who are only trained to keep a victim alive until a higher medical authority can take over patient care or a CM who most likely has no training in first aid, let alone the assessment of a head wound.

 

By the way, lifeguards--including those employed by Disney--receive a higher level of CPR training than the average Joe. They get the first responder/medical professional training and giving CPR or emergency first aid is part of their job description. My husband teaches both classes. The first responder training is a 6-8 hour class and a 2-4 hour refresher annually. The regular Joe class only teaches adult CPR and is a 2-4 hour class. Add another 1-2 hours (depending in class size) to teach child and infant as well. I get re-certified annually by him, with just me we breeze through it in a under two hours, but he still has to go through the entire thing in order to make it official.

 

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Edited November 3, 2013 by ducklite

[MizDaisy]

So far, no one has determined whether or not the new lifeguards that Disney has ARE certified. That was one of the original questions.

 

 

 

I think the nurse onboard the Disney ship knew the difference between "head injury" and what sounded like a minor cut on the boy's head.......

I think had it been "head injury/trauma" like you've described, the boy would have been transported to the Med center for xrays and observation or further treatment.

I never meant for the conversation to go into quite the detail as you have, Ducklite. Was it appropriate for the nurse to talk to me about it? No. I don't think so. But my ONLY point is that she obviously feels over worked....since there was only her, another "maybe" nurse (looked like she only checked people in to the Medical center) and the doctor, who is only called when absolutely necessary. So, point being, they need more highly trained people.

[ducklite]

So far, no one has determined whether or not the new lifeguards that Disney has ARE certified. That was one of the original questions.

 

https://sjobs.brassring.com/tgwebhost/jobdetails.aspx?partnerid=25348&siteid=5039&jobid=129561. They have to be certified, and life guard certification includes CPR, AED, and first aid training.

 

I think the nurse onboard the Disney ship knew the difference between "head injury" and what sounded like a minor cut on the boy's head.......

I think had it been "head injury/trauma" like you've described, the boy would have been transported to the Med center for xrays and observation or further treatment.

I never meant for the conversation to go into quite the detail as you have, Ducklite. Was it appropriate for the nurse to talk to me about it? No. I don't think so. But my ONLY point is that she obviously feels over worked....since there was only her, another "maybe" nurse (looked like she only checked people in to the Medical center) and the doctor, who is only called when absolutely necessary. So, point being, they need more highly trained people.

 

She might have, but the people who called for her didn't. That's the entire point! She was called to assess an injury. That is her job, not the job of the guy who picks up wet towels or the cruise director or anyone else. With a head Injury, it was absolutely appropriate to call the nurse. If the nurse doesn't feel so, she should find a new job, maybe without direct patient care responsibilities.

 

 

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Edited November 3, 2013 by ducklite

[Landlocked_N_Texas]

There have been several changes recently. I am re-certified every year, and one of the biggies is that (contrary to previous thoughts) CPR performed incorrectly is still better than none at all. That said, I bet every crew member is certified at least in basic life support. It seems to make sense they would call med support first, then start BLS if a life or death situation. If it is not a dire emergency, they are probably trained to only let medical staff handle it.

 

I wonder if DCL can call the cast members lifeguards, even if they're not "trained" because The pool is far too shallow to use any of the techniques lifeguards have to master for rescue. Or perhaps I am a "certified lifeguard" if I meet my employer's certification process, but I could not say I was a RedCross Certified Lifeguard.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Landlocked_N_Texas

[sandyh85]

Which country's laws do the crew in such situations fall l under? I understand that it's not universal, but here in most of Canada we have "good samaritan" laws that cover people attempting to make such a rescue, especially if they have appropriate training....

 

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[ducklite]

There have been several changes recently. I am re-certified every year, and one of the biggies is that (contrary to previous thoughts) CPR performed incorrectly is still better than none at all. That said, I bet every crew member is certified at least in basic life support. It seems to make sense they would call med support first, then start BLS if a life or death situation. If it is not a dire emergency, they are probably trained to only let medical staff handle it.

 

I wonder if DCL can call the cast members lifeguards, even if they're not "trained" because The pool is far too shallow to use any of the techniques lifeguards have to master for rescue. Or perhaps I am a "certified lifeguard" if I meet my employer's certification process, but I could not say I was a RedCross Certified Lifeguard.

 

I don't think that all crew members are taught BLS. I worked for Disney as did my son, and neither of us received any sort of medical or emergency training other than"Call 9-1-1"

 

A life guard is a life guard regardless of the depth of the water. Would you not call an RN an RN because all they do is take kids temperatures, check for head lice, and call parents to pick up the ones who have had protein spills in elementary school? I know the land based lifeguards at Disney are Red Cross certified, the ship lifeguard will receive training in Orlando, so it makes no sense that they wouldn't go through the same program. By the way, they teach it at Stormalong Bay at the Beach Club before and after hours as it's the deepest pool at Disney.

 

CPR performed incorrectly on a dead person is better than nothing. CPR performed on a person who has simply lost consciousness is very dangerous.

 

 

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[Landlocked_N_Texas]

I don't think that all crew members are taught BLS. I worked for Disney as did my son, and neither of us received any sort of medical or emergency training other than"Call 9-1-1"

 

A life guard is a life guard regardless of the depth of the water. Would you not call an RN an RN because all they do is take kids temperatures, check for head lice, and call parents to pick up the ones who have had protein spills in elementary school? I know the land based lifeguards at Disney are Red Cross certified, the ship lifeguard will receive training in Orlando, so it makes no sense that they wouldn't go through the same program. By the way, they teach it at Stormalong Bay at the Beach Club before and after hours as it's the deepest pool at Disney.

 

CPR performed incorrectly on a dead person is better than nothing. CPR performed on a person who has simply lost consciousness is very dangerous.

 

 

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I'm surprised crew members wouldn't learn BLS, especially considering the ship is so isolated once at sea.

 

I don't argue with a lifeguard being a lifeguard. What I was saying is that perhaps they aren't RedCross certified, because the depth of the water might allow for a less intensive type of certification.

 

But I completely disagree with your last statement. All of the new research shows that chest compressions, even performed incorrectly, increase a persons survival rate. In fact, this is why the American Heart Association changed guidelines in 2010. I'm not saying CM's don't need to get certified in BLS, but I am saying that, if I were a lawyer, and CM's did nothing but call a nurse or MD, especially knowing the new research and guidelines, I would have a field day.

[ducklite]

I'm surprised crew members wouldn't learn BLS, especially considering the ship is so isolated once at sea.

 

I don't argue with a lifeguard being a lifeguard. What I was saying is that perhaps they aren't RedCross certified, because the depth of the water might allow for a less intensive type of certification.

 

But I completely disagree with your last statement. All of the new research shows that chest compressions, even performed incorrectly, increase a persons survival rate. In fact, this is why the American Heart Association changed guidelines in 2010. I'm not saying CM's don't need to get certified in BLS, but I am saying that, if I were a lawyer, and CM's did nothing but call a nurse or MD, especially knowing the new research and guidelines, I would have a field day.

 

You missed my point. Before applying compressions, you need to have a non-breathing victim. Someone who thinks they know CPR because they slept in a Holiday Inn last night who doesn't check for respiration and tries to perform compressions on someone who is simply unconscious/unresponsive can do serious harm or even cause death when there was no imminent risk of it.

 

You would not have a field day because someone who has no training or certification is under zero legal obligation to do anything. Period. Given your application of the law, everyone who works for every business that you might step foot into needs to respond with BLS, whether they are trained to do so or not. I don't know about you, but I don't want the fry cook at McD's bashing my chest because I passed out due to the noxious fumes from the mcCrap food because he saw it on COPS while drinking his sixer the night before.

 

 

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[Landlocked_N_Texas]

Your fear of fry cooks brings us back to the original point - these CMs should have Basic Life Support training (so that they aren't doing chest compressions on conscious guests, as you say). And with that, I am done with the Off Topic stuff that high-jacked this thread. Can't wait to find out what kind of training the new life guards do have.

[ducklite]

Your fear of fry cooks brings us back to the original point - these CMs should have Basic Life Support training (so that they aren't doing chest compressions on conscious guests, as you say). And with that, I am done with the Off Topic stuff that high-jacked this thread. Can't wait to find out what kind of training the new life guards do have.

 

Follow the link I posted. They are getting the same training that Disney Resort life guards get, which is the Red Cross training program. You'll also see if you follow the link that their responsibilities will be broader than the on ship poo,s and could involve deeper and open water on excursions.

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

[Ex techie]

Back in the day' date=' we were told to call for help and then start CPR...............That was Red Cross, Maritime and any other group I know of.

 

Maybe now because of the legal issues, the safely of a human life is put behind the legal issues. I don't know about any one else, but if I have someone not breathing to hell with the legal and I call someone to go for help and immediately start CPR, if is costs me my job..........fine, at least I would be able to sleep at night knowing I didn't waste time reciting a legal disclaimer and getting a witness list together.

 

 

AKK[/quote']

 

Thats great that you DID have CPR training skipper, I was asking about cruise ship employees (specifically on DCL) as I never received any CPR training.

I wonder if the difference is in the type of vessel you were on. :confused:

In your case, wasn't it manned by all seamen? In that case, everyone onboard is an "employee" and has probably signed or agreed to a certain amount of care or coverage, or even agreed not to sue in the event of an accident.

 

But with a cruise ship and passengers, I think liability is a HUGE factor.

 

I have to say that in my experience with an accident onboard, what happened to me is exactly as Techie described.....no one was about to touch me until the nurse from the Medical Center arrived. I am not complaining.....not at all.....just saying that I was asked if I wanted/needed attention, and nothing further.

Also, while I was being treated, a call came in for the nurse to go to the pool deck, where a young boy had cut his head. When the nurse returned, she was a little put out, because she said it was something that the parents....or some other adult.....could have handled without her. I got the impression from our further discussion that the policy WAS as such that she, one of the other nurses, or the doctor, were to be called for EVERYTHING.

I'm sorry that you had to go through the no hands, no help situation MizDaisy. Thats just what we were told to do.

 

That said, if I saw a child or adult in difficulty in a pool, would I jump in and help them? Hell yes!

If I could not hear air escaping from their mouth or nose would I try to give them CPR? Probably just chest compressions.

 

As for the drunk guy, I got him off the railing on to the floor, laid him on his side and got someone to get a pool towel for under his head.

He couldn't fall, so had done what I could to stop him hurting himself, and I had done nothing that could make me liable for future prosecution.

ex techie

[Ex techie]

I'm surprised crew members wouldn't learn BLS, especially considering the ship is so isolated once at sea.

 

I don't argue with a lifeguard being a lifeguard. What I was saying is that perhaps they aren't RedCross certified, because the depth of the water might allow for a less intensive type of certification.

 

But I completely disagree with your last statement. All of the new research shows that chest compressions, even performed incorrectly, increase a persons survival rate. In fact, this is why the American Heart Association changed guidelines in 2010. I'm not saying CM's don't need to get certified in BLS, but I am saying that, if I were a lawyer, and CM's did nothing but call a nurse or MD, especially knowing the new research and guidelines, I would have a field day.

 

Yes the ship is isolated at sea, but there is a medical team that can reach anywhere on the ship probably faster than any paramedic can on land as well.

You could have a field day, but without legislation requiring all CM's to be trained, I think your day would be short.

Morally should all CM's be trained in CPR? Yes.

Should all servers be trained in the heimlich manoeuvre? Yes.

It is a requirement and does that make the employee and employer liable if a mistake is made and the person suffers more damage and injury/death. Yes.

 

Probably one of the most important reasons cruise ships rarely have medical teams employed by the cruise line and chose to use vendors as well.

 

And that is why.

 

ex techie

Edited November 3, 2013 by Ex techie

[Ex techie]

Which country's laws do the crew in such situations fall l under? I understand that it's not universal, but here in most of Canada we have "good samaritan" laws that cover people attempting to make such a rescue, especially if they have appropriate training....

 

Sent from my HTC One using Forums mobile app

 

I would think international law would apply.

However any law suit would have to filled against the cruise line in the country from which they operate from. For DCL that would be Britain where the parent company is based.

 

ex techie