epic and the hidden charges and lack of space

[Rollingstone43]

But I would not have started a thread inflicting my tiny-minded opinions on others.


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[SeaShark]

[quote name='Single Cruiser']I think it's unique to NCL how they badge service charge versus gratuity.

[B]As in DSC - forms part of wage for behind scenes crew - cooks, engineering, waiters, and cabin stewards[/B]

Gratuities - 15% auto for bar staff, spa etc... any you wish to pay in cash or on receipts in speciality restaurant/bars etc..[/QUOTE]

That statement is incorrect. The DSC is NOT a part of theirs wages. It may be a part of the overall available compensation, but it is NOT a part of their wages.

From the FAQ:

[I][B]Why is there a service charge?[/B]
The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports[/I]

Note that they are compensated from two sources

#1 is their salary
#2 is incentive programs that your service charge supports

NCL pays their salary. The DSC is used to support (IOW "pays for part") the crew incentive programs.

The money and promotions that the crew stands to gain from the incentive programs is why most of them prefer vacation hero/STYLE cards as opposed to cash tips.

[Holidaymanbristol]

[quote name='Rollingstone43']But I would not have started a thread inflicting my tiny-minded opinions on others.


Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app[/QUOTE]

I bow to your superior knowledge oh great one :eek:

[che5904]

[quote name='Holidaymanbristol'] Returned last Sunday back to the UK after spending a week onboard Epic after five days in Miami.
Excellent and professional getting on, and of the ship,including the stop overs.
Food excellent choice and good variety.plenty of places to eat,cagneys was fantastic and worth the few dollars extra.
The staterooms were a good size and had excellent showers and toilets.beds very comfortable and a.c good.tv single was good as well.
A little tip red carpet is even numbers,blue carpet is odd numbers when returning to your room.


The poor item I felt onboard this ship,are the water facilitys on board were far to small for 4000 plus people.my two teenagers and us did not go anywhere near the water slides,hot tubs or small watering holes,it was just to busy and crowded.far too many people on board.

You have to pay for everything you want to do on the ship via your card,i prefer it where everything is part of the package.You could spend a small fortune on additional costs.

Gratatuity charges added to my bill were the best part of 250 dollars for four people ,go to reception and get them removed on the last day of your cruise.
It is best if you wish to hand out your hard earned money, you give to the people you want.
Smoking on the casino floor is a big no no,the sooner they
stop it the better for all concerned.i am amazed NCL allow this to happen.

Charging for the use of items on board is a big no no for me,let's have a clear price to use the facilities on board,

No where enough deck chairs and space for people to sunbathe,towels left on beds for hours without people useing them.

[B]People may think the price is good ,but NCL hidden charges for everything makes it a very expensive cruise.[/B]
My honest opinion is the ship is filled with too many people and not capable of giving excellent service to all.
[/LIST]sive cruise ship.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your input.

I will disagree with the bolded statement above. I much prefer the way NCL does it to keep the base price down and allow me to add what extras I wish to add for the enjoyment of my vacation. A la carte vacation. I don't want to pay a larger fee at the beginning that will include things that I have no interest in.

Perhaps a little more research before your cruise would have alleviated this problem for you. That way you could have chosen a cruiseline that had a higher price but included those things that you wanted. In the end it may have been more financially sound in your case.

[SeaShark]

[quote name='Holidaymanbristol']Ahh so who is right, and who is wrong, as the americans say we live in freedom and are able to choose what we do.

You are no less, and i am no more we just have different views.[/QUOTE]

Almost...more accurately, we live in freedom from Government making the choice of what we do. We still live in a society with expected behavioral norms...nobody just gets to do what they want.

[Smallfamily]

Have not cruised ncl what are the other charges? Is it more than speciality restaurants, internet, laundry and alcohol we are used to paying for??

 

 

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[Single Cruiser]

That statement is incorrect. The DSC is NOT a part of theirs wages. It may be a part of the overall available compensation, but it is NOT a part of their wages.

 

From the FAQ:

 

Why is there a service charge?

The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports

 

Note that they are compensated from two sources

 

#1 is their salary

#2 is incentive programs that your service charge supports

 

NCL pays their salary. The DSC is used to support (IOW "pays for part") the crew incentive programs.

 

The money and promotions that the crew stands to gain from the incentive programs is why most of them prefer vacation hero/STYLE cards as opposed to cash tips.

 

OK so wrong wording replace wages with compensation package..

 

And also why I give cash tips to select bar staff and room steward

Edited January 5, 2014 by Single Cruiser

[russianmom]

My grats were included in the price,hence i new what the bill was:D

 

From Royal's FAQ page:

The following services are not included in the cruise price:

Dining in Specialty Restaurants such as Portofino

Dining in Johnny Rockets (Where applicable)

Spa and Salon services

Golf Simulator

Gambling (Including Bingo)

Art Auction

Any purchases made in the gift shops onboard

Shore excursions

Photographs

Video Arcade

Medical Services

Internet Access

Transfers (Unless guest has purchased our air/sea package)

Laundry and Dry Cleaning Services

Ship to Shore Telephone calls

Gratuities

Alcoholic Beverages

Non-Alcoholic Beverages (excluding water, lemonade and iced tea)

[Holidaymanbristol]

Have not cruised ncl what are the other charges? Is it more than speciality restaurants, internet, laundry and alcohol we are used to paying for??

 

 

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Hi

Apart from certain food halls,three free shows,the outside slides and swimming pools,hot tubs all is chargeable.

Hope this helps

[Holidaymanbristol]

From Royal's FAQ page:

The following services are not included in the cruise price:

Dining in Specialty Restaurants such as Portofino

Dining in Johnny Rockets (Where applicable)

Spa and Salon services

Golf Simulator

Gambling (Including Bingo)

Art Auction

Any purchases made in the gift shops onboard

Shore excursions

Photographs

Video Arcade

Medical Services

Internet Access

Transfers (Unless guest has purchased our air/sea package)

Laundry and Dry Cleaning Services

Ship to Shore Telephone calls

Gratuities

Alcoholic Beverages

Non-Alcoholic Beverages (excluding water, lemonade and iced tea)

 

100% in the deal the company put together for me at time.

[triptolemus]

Hi

Apart from certain food halls,three free shows,the outside slides and swimming pools,hot tubs all is chargeable.

Hope this helps

 

It doesn't help.

 

Here's a REAL answer, which you should have read before your cruise.

 

http://www.ncl.com/faq/cruise-fare-includes

[WildcatRock]

Hi

Apart from certain food halls,three free shows,the outside slides and swimming pools,hot tubs all is chargeable.

Hope this helps

 

OMG, just go away already. Go cruise Royal Caribbean and enjoy.

 

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[Cretia]

On the topic of the level of clarity in the term "Daily Service Charge", I firmly believe those people who are confused are very few and very far between. I suspect the vast majority of those who remove the DSC know exactly what they are doing.

 

With a service charge, employees are rewarded through incentive programs for meeting service levels set by the employer. This motivates the employee to treat EVERYONE with equally high standards. If the employee's level of service isn't up to standard, they won't receive potential rewards from the program, won't receive raises/promotions, and will most likely not hold onto that job for very long.

 

On this note, I read a fascinating article this summer about a software designer-turned-restauateur in San Diego who abolished tipping in favor of a service charge in his restaurant for more than six years. At the time the article was written, the restauateur was in the process of moving his restaurant from San Diego to San Francisco, where presumably he will (has?) return to the experiment.

 

For those interested, the entire article is worth the read and can be found here

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/08/tipless_restaurants_the_linkery_s_owner_explains_why_abolishing_tipping.html

 

The results in summary, for those who don't want to click through, was that it was a smashing success. The service charge allowed the restaurant to divide tips between the servers and the cooks, which improved the quality of the food (as previously the cooks felt as if they were at a disadvantage), which increased business at the restaurant, which ended up making everyone involved more money.

 

He also has a very scathing opinion of those who insist upon keeping the tipping system as is, including a food critic, who outright demanded how she was supposed to "punish" (?!?!!) the server for mistakes and a city attourney who threatened (unsuccessfully) fines and jail time over a perceived consumer deception. The restaurateur believes that in both cases, the complainer was very invested in the current power imbalance caused by the current culture.

 

I'm posting this article that is only tangential to the conversation to explain that service charges work in the U.S. because adding straight to the prices tends to make people (Americans specifically) compare end products differently (as in, people would prefer to go to a restaurant with lower prices that emphasis tips over higher priced restaurants that forbids tips even if people would end up with a higher bill plus tip at the first restaurant because of the perception that the prices are cheaper) which is why companies that have large American markets just can't up their prices and remove tips completely.

 

A second point is that such a system can and does work in the United States, would likely make our European counterparts a little happier, and get the service industry on the road to standardization internationally.

 

Finally, if more consumers urge this point of view, more companies will adopt it.

 

Full disclosure: I worked as a waitress in an area of the U.S. where tipping is very much perceived as your value as an employee, so the idea of stiffing otherwise deserving people of a tip is down-right insulting and I tend to take the notion very seriously. That said, I'm not sure there are too many Americans who haven't felt anxiety over when and where to tip appropriately, so I'm very enthusiastic about changing the system completely :p

[SeaShark]

On the topic of the level of clarity in the term "Daily Service Charge", I firmly believe those people who are confused are very few and very far between. I suspect the vast majority of those who remove the DSC know exactly what they are doing.

 

 

 

On this note, I read a fascinating article this summer about a software designer-turned-restauateur in San Diego who abolished tipping in favor of a service charge in his restaurant for more than six years. At the time the article was written, the restauateur was in the process of moving his restaurant from San Diego to San Francisco, where presumably he will (has?) return to the experiment.

 

For those interested, the entire article is worth the read and can be found here

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/08/tipless_restaurants_the_linkery_s_owner_explains_why_abolishing_tipping.html

 

The results in summary, for those who don't want to click through, was that it was a smashing success. The service charge allowed the restaurant to divide tips between the servers and the cooks, which improved the quality of the food (as previously the cooks felt as if they were at a disadvantage), which increased business at the restaurant, which ended up making everyone involved more money.

 

He also has a very scathing opinion of those who insist upon keeping the tipping system as is, including a food critic, who outright demanded how she was supposed to "punish" (?!?!!) the server for mistakes and a city attourney who threatened (unsuccessfully) fines and jail time over a perceived consumer deception. The restaurateur believes that in both cases, the complainer was very invested in the current power imbalance caused by the current culture.

 

I'm posting this article that is only tangential to the conversation to explain that service charges work in the U.S. because adding straight to the prices tends to make people (Americans specifically) compare end products differently (as in, people would prefer to go to a restaurant with lower prices that emphasis tips over higher priced restaurants that forbids tips even if people would end up with a higher bill plus tip at the first restaurant because of the perception that the prices are cheaper) which is why companies that have large American markets just can't up their prices and remove tips completely.

 

A second point is that such a system can and does work in the United States, would likely make our European counterparts a little happier, and get the service industry on the road to standardization internationally.

 

Finally, if more consumers urge this point of view, more companies will adopt it.

 

Full disclosure: I worked as a waitress in an area of the U.S. where tipping is very much perceived as your value as an employee, so the idea of stiffing otherwise deserving people of a tip is down-right insulting and I tend to take the notion very seriously. That said, I'm not sure there are too many Americans who haven't felt anxiety over when and where to tip appropriately, so I'm very enthusiastic about changing the system completely :p

 

You may have missed it, but the article that you provided a link to was already provided in this thread in the very post that you only partially quoted.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your statements, I just don't want to see the thread get repetitive.

[Shayhooper]

100% in the deal the company put together for me at time.

 

I'm confused. Are you saying that ALL of the items listed were included in your ticket price? Excursions, liquor, art at the auction, photos, and gambling?

 

The last cruise we took we booked through a warehouse store which offered a promotion that included our DSC. Beyond prepaid gratuities, a bottle of wine, OBC, or perhaps one comped meal at one of the restaurants, it is difficult to buy that EVERYTHING was included.

[Cretia]

You may have missed it, but the article that you provided a link to was already provided in this thread in the very post that you only partially quoted.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your statements, I just don't want to see the thread get repetitive.

 

My apologies. I didn't click on the pdf. To be honest, they are a pain in the butt to download and open (not to mention a couple of the computers I use do not like adobe in the slightest(!)) that since it didn't have the same title, I just leapt to the conclusion it was something different. I also know people don't like (and shouldn't in many cases) clicking through links on a message board, which is why I pulled out what I thought were the important parts.

 

The money and promotions that the crew stands to gain from the incentive programs is why most of them prefer vacation hero/STYLE cards as opposed to cash tips.

 

While I have your attention, could you clarify your statement? Does that mean that gratituites in addition to the DSC posted to the onboard account are preferred to cash tips?

 

I always like to show my appreciation appropriately, but as mentioned in my first post, I'm not sure at times what appropriately entails.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Cretia

[Smallfamily]

Thanks for the website link, I'm fine with all the extras they are the norm, except I think bowling should be included, but that's just me.

 

 

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[gonna go cruising]

Thanks for the website link, I'm fine with all the extras they are the norm, except I think bowling should be included, but that's just me.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

 

If bowling were included, one would never get a chance to bowl. As it is, they usually only let you bowl one game so others get a chance unless no one else is waiting.

[vols_159]

Returned last Sunday back to the UK after spending a week onboard Epic after five days in Miami.

Excellent and professional getting on, and of the ship,including the stop overs.

Food excellent choice and good variety.plenty of places to eat,cagneys was fantastic and worth the few dollars extra.

The staterooms were a good size and had excellent showers and toilets.beds very comfortable and a.c good.tv single was good as well.

A little tip red carpet is even numbers,blue carpet is odd numbers when returning to your room.

 

 

The poor item I felt onboard this ship,are the water facilitys on board were far to small for 4000 plus people.my two teenagers and us did not go anywhere near the water slides,hot tubs or small watering holes,it was just to busy and crowded.far too many people on board.

 

You have to pay for everything you want to do on the ship via your card,i prefer it where everything is part of the package.You could spend a small fortune on additional costs.

 

Gratatuity charges added to my bill were the best part of 250 dollars for four people ,go to reception and get them removed on the last day of your cruise.

It is best if you wish to hand out your hard earned money, you give to the people you want.

Smoking on the casino floor is a big no no,the sooner they

stop it the better for all concerned.i am amazed NCL allow this to happen.

 

Charging for the use of items on board is a big no no for me,let's have a clear price to use the facilities on board,

 

No where enough deck chairs and space for people to sunbathe,towels left on beds for hours without people useing them.

 

People may think the price is good ,but NCL hidden charges for everything makes it a very expensive cruise.

 

My honest opinion is the ship is filled with too many people and not capable of giving excellent service to all.

sive cruise ship.

 

Can't believe you cheated and stole from the hard working staff a 12 a day service charge is common knowledge .. I hope you never cruise ncl or any other cruise line again

[B6ConMe]

It's not b/c OP is a Brit, so stop beating yourselves up all you proud Brits. There are so many ways to find information and be informed. It's the OP's choice to be uninformed and use it as an excuse for not doing THE RIGHT THING.

 

I hadn't even read half of what's available on this forum before my first cruise, yet I knew what DSC was for and I knew just by watching, how hard the crew and staff worked on the ship, so sorry, but no excuse as far as "not knowing".

 

Perhaps the OP should do the research before cruising again on another cruise line.

[Love my butler]

Actually, it's not clear that he did. All he says us, "It is best if you wish to hand out your hard earned money, you give to the people you want." Consistent with his anti-tipping views, I suspect a lot of hard-working people did not get tipped.

 

Makes no difference whether he did or not. His money, his choice.

[Love my butler]

Can't believe you cheated and stole from the hard working staff a 12 a day service charge is common knowledge .. I hope you never cruise ncl or any other cruise line again

 

Hate much? The DSC is fully adjustable meaning he DIDN'T steal anything. NCL ALOWS you to adjust the DSC as you see fit. To claim he stole from the staff is beyond ridiculous. As for hoping he never cruises again, I guess that's also his choice since it is his money, not yours.

[SissasMomE]

Hate much? The DSC is fully adjustable meaning he DIDN'T steal anything. NCL ALOWS you to adjust the DSC as you see fit. To claim he stole from the staff is beyond ridiculous. As for hoping he never cruises again, I guess that's also his choice since it is his money, not yours.

 

LMAO @ your signature line! You are so bad!! :D

[triptolemus]

Don't you grow weary of making the same point over and over and over?

[KweezyCruiser]

Makes no difference whether he did or not. His money, his choice.

 

I was just responding to your unsupported assertion that he had.