Rebecca Coriam's family to sue Disney for $75,000

[DISNEY FANTASY]

They are not trying to have their peace if they file lawsuits.

 

If they're still making news, then they are fair game for discussion here.

 

 

Good point, - At the moment their biggest can I call it threat, to Disney is publicity so talking about it actually is helping them as it's keeping the awareness in the public eye and people who pay for cruises. If something is reported in the News on the BBC I think people have a right to discuss it.

 

But also respect the family for their loss, however it occurred.

 

 

Sent from my iPad.

Edited April 1, 2014 by DISNEY FANTASY

[blackwing]

Forgive my ignorance, but I was unaware of this story until now. So she was seen at dawn calling a friend, then she didn't show up for her 9 am shift. At what point is the family alleging negligence? They say Disney waited 4 hours before raising the alarm. Was this 9 am or 1 pm?

 

What if she just decided to play hooky and had gone offshore for some

fun? What if she was hanging out with a guest? I guess I fail to see the negligence. She is an adult and responsible for her own actions, Disney shouldn't have to have people watching their employees at all times.

 

Are they saying she fell overboard or do they think she was kidnapped?

 

Still, this is a tragedy. I feel bad for the parents who may never find out what happened to her.

[Ex techie]

Forgive my ignorance, but I was unaware of this story until now. So she was seen at dawn calling a friend, then she didn't show up for her 9 am shift. At what point is the family alleging negligence? They say Disney waited 4 hours before raising the alarm. Was this 9 am or 1 pm?

 

What if she just decided to play hooky and had gone offshore for some

fun? What if she was hanging out with a guest? I guess I fail to see the negligence. She is an adult and responsible for her own actions, Disney shouldn't have to have people watching their employees at all times.

 

Are they saying she fell overboard or do they think she was kidnapped?

 

Still, this is a tragedy. I feel bad for the parents who may never find out what happened to her.

 

She was at sea so couldn't have left the ship by regular means.

She could have been hanging out with a guest as you say, but that would be against regulations.

As an adult she is responsible for her actions and behaviour.

I would guess that the slipper found on deck 5 forward (the bow deck and crew social area) is why they are still asking questions and maybe stating negligence is because there are/were no surveillance cameras or MOB detection devices for that area?

DCL haven't said if she fell or was pushed overboard, nor kidnapped.

Her disappearance is just unexplained to this day.

 

ex techie

[MizDaisy]

Forgive my ignorance, but I was unaware of this story until now. So she was seen at dawn calling a friend, then she didn't show up for her 9 am shift. At what point is the family alleging negligence? They say Disney waited 4 hours before raising the alarm. Was this 9 am or 1 pm?

 

What if she just decided to play hooky and had gone offshore for some

fun? What if she was hanging out with a guest? I guess I fail to see the negligence. She is an adult and responsible for her own actions, Disney shouldn't have to have people watching their employees at all times.

 

Are they saying she fell overboard or do they think she was kidnapped?

 

Still, this is a tragedy. I feel bad for the parents who may never find out what happened to her.

 

 

They were at sea, so they know she didn't go onshore for some fun.

 

I don't remember all of the details, but I think what happened was that once they realized she was missing, searched the ship, figured out she must have gone overboard, it has been alleged that Disny didn't contact the Coast Guard and/or other authorities as soon as they should have by law. I don't know the time schedule....but that's what's been said, anyway.

 

Apparently, on a ship, there is a protocol that's far different than it would be if someone went missing from a job on land.

 

 

Just out of curiosity, if you don't know anything about what happened, why are you so quick to jump to the cruise line's defense? And the comments about her being an adult, DCL can't watch their employees...that seems pretty harsh, for someone not knowing that this whole incident had ever happened.:confused:

[Loonbeam]

Doing some research the issue does appear to be the response. Not one hundred percent sure if it was lack of notification to the coast guard or failure to divert course when they realized the possibility. Accounts differ on that (could be one or the other or both).

[Ex techie]

Doing some research the issue does appear to be the response. Not one hundred percent sure if it was lack of notification to the coast guard or failure to divert course when they realized the possibility. Accounts differ on that (could be one or the other or both).

 

Too true as well.

So many factors and failures that put DCL in a bad light. Again given the late reporting of the child molestation by a server and late reporting of that, and his escape from US authorities with DCL's assistance.

 

ex techie

[blackwing]

They were at sea, so they know she didn't go onshore for some fun.

 

I don't remember all of the details, but I think what happened was that once they realized she was missing, searched the ship, figured out she must have gone overboard, it has been alleged that Disny didn't contact the Coast Guard and/or other authorities as soon as they should have by law. I don't know the time schedule....but that's what's been said, anyway.

 

Apparently, on a ship, there is a protocol that's far different than it would be if someone went missing from a job on land.

 

 

Just out of curiosity, if you don't know anything about what happened, why are you so quick to jump to the cruise line's defense? And the comments about her being an adult, DCL can't watch their employees...that seems pretty harsh, for someone not knowing that this whole incident had ever happened.:confused:

Sorry, I read the two links attached to the original post and neither gave many details which is why I was wondering. I saw "negligence" and thought that meant they were blaming Disney for what happened. I see now its mostly for not calling the Coast Guard earlier. This is a sad story.

 

Even if they had started looking in the ocean immediately for her at 9 am... is it possible to survive in the open ocean for 4 hours with no flotation aid?

[MizDaisy]

Sorry, I read the two links attached to the original post and neither gave many details which is why I was wondering. I saw "negligence" and thought that meant they were blaming Disney for what happened. I see now its mostly for not calling the Coast Guard earlier. This is a sad story.

 

Even if they had started looking in the ocean immediately for her at 9 am... is it possible to survive in the open ocean for 4 hours with no flotation aid?

 

Probably not. And I can bet that her parents know that....but it's just so much heartache. There really must be a lot more than anything we've read anywhere....like we've said, it isn't a large amount of money, so they don't seem to be in it for any kind of real compensation. They must truly believe that there is some kind of response or answer they'd like from the company. And perhaps to not have the same thing happen again.

I don't know. It is just so sad.

[Ex techie]

Even if they had started looking in the ocean immediately for her at 9 am... is it possible to survive in the open ocean for 4 hours with no flotation aid?

 

Probably not.

 

But it does ask the question of where the duty of care to employees and Guests starts and stops.

Should MOB technology be mandatory on cruise ships/ferry's, so that the owner/operator is made aware immediately if a foreign object passes overboard (self will or otherwise)?

 

ex techie

Edited April 2, 2014 by Ex techie

[Ex techie]

Probably not. And I can bet that her parents know that....but it's just so much heartache. There really must be a lot more than anything we've read anywhere....like we've said, it isn't a large amount of money, so they don't seem to be in it for any kind of real compensation. They must truly believe that there is some kind of response or answer they'd like from the company. And perhaps to not have the same thing happen again.

I don't know. It is just so sad.

 

Totally agree with this.

 

ex techie

[Host Mick]

Sorry, I read the two links attached to the original post and neither gave many details which is why I was wondering. I saw "negligence" and thought that meant they were blaming Disney for what happened. I see now its mostly for not calling the Coast Guard earlier. This is a sad story.

 

Even if they had started looking in the ocean immediately for her at 9 am... is it possible to survive in the open ocean for 4 hours with no flotation aid?

 

Yes. I did it to get my lifeboatman's endorsement but I had training.

It's not very physically demanding. The risks are from hypothermmia, dehydration and vomiting from ingesting sea water. We could have gone a lot longer than 4 hours but we had other things to do.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Host Mick

[Tonka's Skipper]

IMO the family wants a answer.............from my readings of the actions taken, the Master did a full search, sea search , notified the proper agencies. other vessel aided.

 

The ALLEGED negligence that the family claims is just that....ALLEGED. To the best of my knowledge, there is no further actions being taken by the various Maritime agencies , civil or criminal. However the case is open.

 

I feel as noted before, this is just the families way of trying to bring attention back to Rebecca. Who knows , maybe someone will come forward with something to show what happened.

 

Much more likely ...Sadly and simply................sometimes there is NO answer.

 

AKK

Edited April 2, 2014 by Tonka's Skipper

[chengkp75]

Yes. I did it to get my lifeboatman's endorsement but I had training.

It's not very physically demanding. The risks are from hypothermmia, dehydration and vomiting from ingesting sea water. We could have gone a lot longer than 4 hours but we had other things to do.

 

Hey, Mick;

 

Done the same training, but mine was offshore Halifax, NS, in March.:eek:

 

While you're correct that it isn't physically demanding, you have to be trained to ignore your natural instinct to flail around to keep afloat (that old "drown-proofing" training will just kill you faster through hypothermia), and unless the sea is a millpond, you are certainly going to get your face full of sea water!

 

This is also somewhat different from falling off a ship, as you are just jumping from a small boat. Falling from the open decks of most ships will invite injuries that will shorten life expectancy.

 

As you know I've stated on Techie's MOB detection thread, even if you know the instant someone went over, and initiated a turn and search at that time, the chances of finding someone is still very small. Look at the ocean racer who went overboard this week. They saw him go, they turned a small boat around to search, and it still took 2 hours to find him, and he was wearing a bright yellow lifejacket and orange survival suit. Anyone in street clothes would be nearly invisible, particularly at night.

 

Four hours in nearly any water (even the Gulf of Oman at 86F water temperature will kill you in less than 8 hours if improperly outfitted) will be near the limit for an untrained, poorly dressed individual, and at higher lattitudes, it drops to minutes.

[MizDaisy]

IMO the family wants a answer.............from my readings of the actions taken' date=' the Master did a full search, sea search , notified the proper agencies. other vessel aided.

 

The ALLEGED negligence that the family claims is just that....ALLEGED. To the best of my knowledge, there is no further actions being taken by the various Maritime agencies , civil or criminal. However the case is open.

 

I feel as noted before, this is just the families way of trying to bring attention back to Rebecca. Who knows , maybe someone will come forward with something to show what happened.

 

Much more likely ...Sadly and simply................sometimes there is NO answer.

 

AKK[/quote']

 

 

Agree. I think most of us talking here so far have been careful to make sure anyone reading knew we meant "alleged" also. No laying of the blame from me....refreshing, huh?;)

[Tonka's Skipper]

Agree. I think most of us talking here so far have been careful to make sure anyone reading knew we meant "alleged" also. No laying of the blame from me....refreshing, huh?;)

 

Daisy I love ya!..you always make me smile!

 

The whole thing is sad. I really think this is more to get attention back on the case and maybe something new will pop up. I really hope so!

 

I don't understand how she could be talking on the phone and then gone!.........lets face it we don't even know if she did go overboard, It's the most likely thing but we don't KNOW1

 

How can no one in her sphere of CM's she worked with and/or friends with, not have any idea.

 

I could not begin to understand the pain her parents must be going though!

 

AKK

[Ex techie]

As you know I've stated on Techie's MOB detection thread, even if you know the instant someone went over, and initiated a turn and search at that time, the chances of finding someone is still very small. Look at the ocean racer who went overboard this week. They saw him go, they turned a small boat around to search, and it still took 2 hours to find him, and he was wearing a bright yellow lifejacket and orange survival suit. Anyone in street clothes would be nearly invisible, particularly at night.

 

Four hours in nearly any water (even the Gulf of Oman at 86F water temperature will kill you in less than 8 hours if improperly outfitted) will be near the limit for an untrained, poorly dressed individual, and at higher lattitudes, it drops to minutes.

 

At least if you know, they stand a chance of being rescued right?

 

ex techie

[Loonbeam]

Correct, much like with an EMT, the first 20-30 mins are the most critical. Every minute after that the search area widens.

 

At least if you know, they stand a chance of being rescued right?

 

ex techie

[Tonka's Skipper]

At least if you know, they stand a chance of being rescued right?

 

ex techie

 

Hey Techie,

 

Yes there is always a chance............almost everything in sea rescue has a chance. However as the chief is pointing out it near impossible without a light or transponder on a lifevest.

 

The average cruise ship will likely take 5 to 8 minutes to execute a Williamson turn, which turns the vessel around 180* and has her on the reverse course.

 

Then she needs to slow down and get to the original position and hope they see the person.

 

 

Yes it is possible, but as you can see, this is not like driving down the road looking for something that fell off the back of a truck!

 

AKK

[Loonbeam]

I was thinking more along the lines of in the event of an MOB automated alert, they could launch a rescue boat very quickly (conditions permitting). That would give the larger ship the opportunity to reduce speed and make the turn.

 

Not sure if the small boats are equipped with the right kind of lighting for night work tho.

 

Hey Techie' date='

 

Yes there is always a chance............almost everything in sea rescue has a chance. However as the chief is pointing out it near impossible without a light or transponder on a lifevest.

 

The average cruise ship will likely take 5 to 8 minutes to execute a Williamson turn, which turns the vessel around 180* and has her on the reverse course.

 

Then she needs to slow down and get to the original position and hope they see the person.

 

 

Yes it is possible, but as you can see, this is not like driving down the road looking for something that fell off the back of a truck!

 

AKK[/quote']

[Tonka's Skipper]

I was thinking more along the lines of in the event of an MOB automated alert, they could launch a rescue boat very quickly (conditions permitting). That would give the larger ship the opportunity to reduce speed and make the turn.

 

Not sure if the small boats are equipped with the right kind of lighting for night work tho.

 

Hi Loonbeam,

 

Well the idea is good, but unworkable. You cannot safely launch a boat while the vessel is doing 20 knots...........The vessel needs to be near a full stop or no more then a3 or 4 knots.

 

In the time it would take to muster a boat crew, free up the boat, load and launch it the vessel would likely already be completing its turn and slowing down. She would likely still be going to fast.

 

 

AKK

[Loonbeam]

I figured that was a possibility. Even though most ships run in the 10-12 knot zone for fuel efficiency, that would still be too fast I guess.

 

I would still have ships equipped with radio transmitting marker buoys they could drop immediately. Would help the ship return to the general area and in the case of accidental overboard give the person something to swim to that floats (it also would have lighting on it)

 

Hi Loonbeam' date='

 

Well the idea is good, but unworkable. You cannot safely launch a boat while the vessel is doing 20 knots...........The vessel needs to be near a full stop or no more then a3 or 4 knots.

 

In the time it would take to muster a boat crew, free up the boat, load and launch it the vessel would likely already be completing its turn and slowing down. She would likely still be going to fast.

 

 

AKK[/quote']

[chengkp75]

Hi Loonbeam' date='

 

Well the idea is good, but unworkable. You cannot safely launch a boat while the vessel is doing 20 knots...........The vessel needs to be near a full stop or no more then a3 or 4 knots.

 

In the time it would take to muster a boat crew, free up the boat, load and launch it the vessel would likely already be completing its turn and slowing down. She would likely still be going to fast.

 

 

AKK[/quote']

 

If you want a video of what happens when you launch a RIB boat (the type of Rescue boat cruise ships have) with the ship having any headway at all in a running sea, just watch the Whale Wars first season. They capsized a couple of boats doing this. The boat gets trapped alongside the ship by the venturi effect of the two shapes passing water between them, and the friction flips the boat over. 3-4 knots would be possible in a flat calm, but I wouldn't want to do it over 1-2 knots.

 

While doing a Williamson turn, or any of the other two types of "rescue turns", you don't want to change speed too much, or you change the characteristic of the turning circle, and you will end up away from the original course line, and then you need to slow down. Even a full astern bell will take several hundred yards and the better part of 2-3 minutes to stop a rampaging cruise ship from full ahead.

 

Launching rescue boats at sea is probably the second most dangerous thing a mariner does (the first being recovering a lifeboat after a drill, even in harbor). The IMO has even done studies as to whether the benefit of requiring a rescue boat on cargo ships outweighs the risk, given the fact that in most weather conditions, there is risk of losing the boat, its crew, or the person being rescued. Not saying that cruise ships shouldn't have them, just that they are extremely dangerous, and extremely difficult to launch in an open seaway.

 

Also, searching from the rescue boat is very difficult. You are trading a height of eye of nearly 100 feet (the higher you are the farther you can see) from the ship's bridge, to the 4 foot height of a crewmember seated in a rescue boat. Most of these types of searches and rescues rely on the boat being directed to the person from the ship.

[Ex techie]

I figured that was a possibility. Even though most ships run in the 10-12 knot zone for fuel efficiency, that would still be too fast I guess.

 

I would still have ships equipped with radio transmitting marker buoys they could drop immediately. Would help the ship return to the general area and in the case of accidental overboard give the person something to swim to that floats (it also would have lighting on it)

 

These are my thoughts too Loonbeam.

I think a marker buoy would be vetoed due to the costs, but at least the bridge could mark the position of the alert or it be recorded automatically by the MOB system.

 

TBH, I think a lot of the it's not effective enough or efficient enough comments are due to the cruise lines not wanting to assume responsibility for not doing everything possible in the case of a death and the possibility of a law suit.

 

ex techie

[Ex techie]

If you want a video of what happens when you launch a RIB boat (the type of Rescue boat cruise ships have) with the ship having any headway at all in a running sea, just watch the Whale Wars first season. They capsized a couple of boats doing this. The boat gets trapped alongside the ship by the venturi effect of the two shapes passing water between them, and the friction flips the boat over. 3-4 knots would be possible in a flat calm, but I wouldn't want to do it over 1-2 knots.

 

While doing a Williamson turn, or any of the other two types of "rescue turns", you don't want to change speed too much, or you change the characteristic of the turning circle, and you will end up away from the original course line, and then you need to slow down. Even a full astern bell will take several hundred yards and the better part of 2-3 minutes to stop a rampaging cruise ship from full ahead.

 

Launching rescue boats at sea is probably the second most dangerous thing a mariner does (the first being recovering a lifeboat after a drill, even in harbor). The IMO has even done studies as to whether the benefit of requiring a rescue boat on cargo ships outweighs the risk, given the fact that in most weather conditions, there is risk of losing the boat, its crew, or the person being rescued. Not saying that cruise ships shouldn't have them, just that they are extremely dangerous, and extremely difficult to launch in an open seaway.

 

Also, searching from the rescue boat is very difficult. You are trading a height of eye of nearly 100 feet (the higher you are the farther you can see) from the ship's bridge, to the 4 foot height of a crewmember seated in a rescue boat. Most of these types of searches and rescues rely on the boat being directed to the person from the ship.

 

I'm sure I've said this before Chief, but by the same standard that is qualification for firefighters to not drive above the speed limit or enter a burning building because they are putting their life at risk to save another's.

Thats part of the job, and it is risky.

 

ex techie

Edited April 3, 2014 by Ex techie

[chengkp75]

I'm sure I've said this before chief, but by the same standard that is qualification for firefighters to not drive above the speed limit or enter a burning building because they are putting their life at risk to save another's.

Thats part of the job, and it is risky.

 

ex techie

 

After nearly 40 years at sea, I know that anything you do at sea is dangerous, but there is such a thing as committing suicide, which is what you would do attempting to launch a RIB with the ship underway. Plus, you've just increased the number of victims from 1 to 3 or 4, and disabled one asset of rescue, the boat.

 

And as I've said before, I'm one of the few who has found out that I will run towards the fire, not everyone will, and not everyone will know this, as I didn't for sure know, before the smoke is in your nostrils. I have saved lives at sea, and probably will do again, but I will always point out the risks.

Edited April 3, 2014 by chengkp75