Will NCL Be Hiring Non-Americans?

[retsof]

I spoke with my TA and discussed concerns about the POA negative reviews. She said to wait before cancelling the cruise. She stated that she had been to a breakfast hosted by NCL and they said they were going to hire foreign workers (25% foreign) to get the service up. This sounds promising.

 

I trust my TA but I do not want to start an unfounded rumor. I emailed this board's keeper to check it out (at least I thought I had) but got no response. I am possibly doing something wrong, but when I tried to email Cecelia I got this message

"Sorry! That user has specified that they do not wish to receive emails."

 

I think Cecelia is one smart person for not accepting emails from me.

[Host CMLA]

My e mail address is listed on my profile. The link through the web site to e mail members is permanently disabled because of spammers. But I can always be reached through my e mail. Just click on my profile and look at my signature. :)

 

You can post pretty much anything about NCL here. Even if it is something second hand from your TA. It's NCL related and maybe other members have something to add. If it pans out...great...new information. If it doesn't, that's great too because then people will know.

 

My opinion...NCL agreed to having US crews as part of the deal. I'd be interested to see how they could change that up.

[Globaliser]

I emailed this board's keeper to check it out (at least I thought I had) but got no response. I am possibly doing something wrong, but when I tried to email Cecelia I got this message "Sorry! That user has specified that they do not wish to receive emails."

 

I think Cecelia is one smart person for not accepting emails from me.

E-mail through the boards is disabled. You will get this message if you try to e-mail any CC member, not just Host Cecilia.

[tiggrrr]

My opinion...NCL agreed to having US crews as part of the deal. I'd be interested to see how they could change that up.

 

As they are US flagged ships, by law, NCL or any other compay that decide to US flag their ships, can only employ a small percentage of foreign crew.

 

To change they would have to re-flag the ship and then could not operate the Hawaii itins as they are now.

[Globaliser]

As they are US flagged ships, by law, NCL or any other compay that decide to US flag their ships, can only employ a small percentage of foreign crew.

 

To change they would have to re-flag the ship and then could not operate the Hawaii itins as they are now.

I think that percentage is the percentage mentioned in the OP - 25%. However, under current law they must be Green Card holders.

 

I wonder if NCL are seeking another exemption? They have already had to get some exemptions from the strict letter of the law to get the NCL America operation running at all.

[smeyer418]

Green cards would be available if NCL can show that they can't get enough US Citizens(its called the labor certification process) for specific job titles. The DOL and local state unemployment would have to get involved. It is doable. NCL has been advertising and hiring US Citizens. If the results have not produced enough US employee eligibles, they can sponsor people.

 

http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/residency/employment.htm

[retsof]

I thought I posted this an hour ago but do not see it. Ignore if this is a duplicate. My travel agent said she learned from an NCL sponsored breakfast that NCL realized they needed to raise customer satisfaction and would be hiring a 25% foreign work force. Has anyone else heard this? This sounds like good news.

[Don Haynes]

From my understanding, that's exactly what NCL is doing now. Its the same guidelines NCL was granted when the Jones Act was reformed by Congress. Nothing new..... 25 percent green card foreigners....

[smeyer418]

you can always find your own posts by clicking on your screen name(its with the list at the bottom of the screens by cruise line) and clicking on all posts by yourself. You will then either see it or it it has been removed it will no longer appear. I sometimes have trouble finding a post and it helps prevent two threads by me on the same issue. With the problems posting lately I can see not knowing whether it posted or not.

[bankofdad]

They've actually been using foreign staff for quite some time. In fact, on our POPAloha cruise last October our waiter in the bistro (Dimitre) was Bulgarian.

 

From what I understood they can use 25% foreign crew provided these crew members were U.S. tax paying legal aliens with government issued green cards. That's what would distinguish them from most typical international crew members that were not US citizens.

[DearOldDad]

Also remember that although this is a wholely owned subsidury of NCL (or her holding company) it is NCLA that these things pertain to. Think back to who was in charge when NCLA was being formed and chartered. The rules that were enforced on NCLA also included things such as paying union scale wages and having all workers be taxed. I am surprised they weren't forced to be a "closed shop" (that is you must join a union when you become employed) as well. One of the things about being a Green card holder is being able to obtain a SS card and thereby being taxable (trackable) just like any other citizen. The $10p/p/p/d surcharge was really a way to cut down on the under-reporting of cash tips.

 

Of course this is all just MHO :D

[Conte Biancomano]

This thread isn't what I like t crew on NCLA in August '04 was at least a dozen times friendlier than most on Carnival Liberty, and I'll be damned if she wasn't cleaneo see. I hate people complaining that an American crew can't or is too lazy to provide decent service. My cruise on Pride of Aloha last year had better service than Carnival Liberty (in fairness, dining room staff was pretty much evenly matched). You don't have to be American to be lazy and you don't have to be lazy if you're American. The crew was at least a dozen times friendlier (which is amazing, all the rude comments and complaints and other forms of grief that they got from passengers would be enough for me to have a bug up where the sun don't shine- and they didn't) and she was much cleaner- especially considering she's the older of the two ships! This is with a partial crew at the time, which made the dining room waits longer than necessary (the fact that she wasn't designed to be used for Freestyle could be a factor, too) but aside from that it wasn't even close to being as bad as many people say. I'm only asking that you give the folks some credit...

[honestguy]

Well first off to work on board you have to be an American or a green card holder. If you have a green card you can live in the US. It still wouldn't solve all the problems. If your an legal Alien in the US you have it pretty good and can make more money living in the states, than working on board. Most wouldn't want to work there. Secondly I don't see the SIU(seafarer's international union) going for this one bit. 3rd even if you could have 25% you'll still have problem's being you still have 75% americans on board.

 

As for the service! Hands down it can't compare with a international ship. Now thats not to say you cant have a good time. First off your in hawaii. Secondly you can run into god workers on board. There are great room stewards on board. There are great waiters on board as well. I have no doubt I could work on a international ship and do quite well, but leave me be the first to tell you all. There are people on board cooking and waiting tables That I wouldn't leave work at Denny's, and the ship board management well They couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Run into one or two of these losers, and bam your dream vacation is ruined!

 

If NCL wants to pull the ratings up they need to pay more bottom line. The crew pay is bad but the management pay is a joke. They have it really bad. Even though most are bad manager's I feel sorry for them. Its a job I wouldn't want.

[KeystoneCruiser]

The other thing to remember is that a large part of the foreign crew already on the Prides are working in the engine rooms and the bridge crew. Most of NCL's top ship officers and engineers are foreign. It is important that these positions be filled by the most knowledgeable workers possible and therefore, don't look for any reduction in the part of the 25% international workers that already fill these ranks.

[Jim Gallup]

When the idea of American Flag ships sailing in Hawaii again was floated by Hawaiian Senator Daniel Inouye several years ago, it was offered to all the major cruise lines. Carnival and RCCL were very interested, but they insisted that it was only feasible if they were given special permission to hire foreign workers to staff the American flag ships.

They had done their homework. EVERY previous American flag cruse ship had gone bankrupt - from a combination of American Crew and American Unions.

The US Congress was not sympathetic. They refused to even consider allowing an American flag ship with foreign workers. Carnival and RCCL wisely backed away. They realized that they could not possibly make a profit, or even continue in business, with an American Crew.

From Day 1, Pride of Aloha already had 25% Green Card Holders working onboard. Most of them are in technical positions. Very few American sailors and Engineers know how to operate and repair European built, metric, diesel-electric, 220 volt cruise ships.

NCL America is now stuck. They cannot operate their floating hotels at an International Standard. They also cannot make a profit, paying American workers, American taxes - and lacking casino and duty free privileges that might help them to cut costs and possibly turn a profit.

The only question in my mind is how many months or years they will wait ( and how many millions of dollars they will bleed) before pulling the plug, changing the flag back to Bahamas, firing most of the American crew, and taking those ships to a more profitable location.

My contacts in the NCL Office have whispered that the unofficial trial period was two years. One year is already gone. Also gone is most of the US$ 2 Billion investment they committed to the project.

The Chinese Malaysian Owner of the company is too smart to throw good money after bad.

[Don Haynes]

I think a part of the 25 percent foreign green card crew on the NCLA ships was part of a compromise where NCLA had to commit to three US flagged ships. The last American operator in Hawaii eventually ran down to one ship. The union can count, 3 ships 75 percent American is better than 1 ship 100 percent American crewed.

 

No one knows whether NCLA will be successful. Some say it can't be done, others say it can with higher prices and higher wages. NCLA has committed a lot of resources to make this successful, but if they fail, Hawaii will probably end up with only one foreign crewed ship having to do Fanning Island with two week cruises.

 

I hope they succeed in turning a profit so that the SS United States will be refurbished..... Otherwise it will probably see the same fate as the Norway.

[kalamari]

It could happen..remember money talks and even the govt can be bought out..when you look on the federal election site for fundraising, almost all of the NCL bigwigs gave major dollars personally out of their pockets to the different lobbies to get the whole NCLA thing off the ground, against what citizens and environmentalists wished for. So it wouldn't surprise me that they could probably "make" it happen that they could hire foreign laborers for an american flagged ship. But most foregin crew arent that dumb,and wouldn't jump at the chance or so my sources tell me....M

[honestguy]

First off this project has the complete backing of NCL's CEO. The America project is his baby. Secondly it will go longer than 2 years. NCL has every intention to launch the Hawaii as US Flagged. Now that being said it is still possible that they could pull the plug on it. All it takes is a new CEO.

 

Nobody know's if NCL is making money. Being on board I would say they are not. They are pushing hard for casinos, and that would have to come at the state level. Also realize that NCL sell's a ton more excurisons being in port all 7 days. Next they are cutting corners in food cost. They do not serve the same food that they do on their international ships. That's savings right there. Once again being in port at lunch everyday they save a ton in food costs compared to a normal seven day cruise.

 

Now once again A few facts about the ship. First off the Pride of Aloha does not have 25% foreign crew on board. I know I was there. The ship has 850 crewmembers. That would mean that 212 of that was foreigners. Thats not the case. The bridge crew is American all the Engine staff is to for the most part. People are forgetting that America does have a lot of American flagged cargo ships. NCL hires from this pool of workers. The turnover seems to be very low, and they are under a different union as well.(SIU) I would say there may be 50 foreigners on board and that is being generous. Those that are have lived in America and are like Americans except for their Accent.

 

Everyone seems to think that laws will be changed to accomdate NCL. I don't see this happening. NCL has a very good working relationship with the SIU. To try to change the law and hire foreigners will affect this relationship. Secondly the SIU is part of the AFL-CIO. Now talk about lobbying power. Nothing is impossible, but NCL will pull the plug on The american ships before they have a foreign crew if you ask me.

[bankofdad]

NCL has every intention to launch the Hawaii as US Flagged. Now that being said it is still possible that they could pull the plug on it.

 

Very interesting thread with a lot of different views.

 

I just want to say that I also agree that the crew that I encountered on POAloha was by far the friendliest of my six cruises. I hope I get a lot of the same of that on our cruise on POAm next month!

 

However, I will say this. I know what I paid for our cruise on POAloha. I know what I'm paying for our cruise on POAm. I understand the salary issues asociated with employing a crew in accordance with US labor laws. I am the first to say all of these people are under-paid.

 

THAT SAID - I was recently looking at the published rates for an inter-island cruise that were recently released for the Pride of Hawaii. As much as I love Hawaii and the friendliness of the crew, I wouldn't pay these prices.

 

As much as I might the love the product (I'm referring to the 7-day inter-island trip here, nothing else), at this pricepoint I'll look to go to Tahiti or Australia or New Zealand for my South Pacific fix.

 

I wonder how many other people feel the same way I do:confused:, and if NCLA will get these prices consistently.

[kalamari]

You'd be surprised what laws can be changed if someone puts up enough money....Menina

[honestguy]

better have more money than the AFL-CIO. What NCL started doing was doing huge charter cruises on the pride of Aloha. In my last 6 weeks we had a group of 800 on board a group of 300 and a group of 1200. Now I know NCL gave a great rate to these companies, but boy did the people getting a free cruise spend money

[electricron]

I don't believe the majority feeling that good hard working Americans will not work for cruise lines, or that Americans give poor service in general.

When you travel throughout America, I don't believe everyone gets very poor service at every restaurant and hotel they visit.

Americans have been out of the cruise, ocean shipping industry for a long, long time. It's not a job many children in America have looked forward to doing when they grew up.

I'm not surprised that NCL has been having a hard time finding good workers, but I still refuse to believe that Americans can't or won't do these jobs. It's just going to take a while for NCL to draw and find great American employees.

If Americans will change out bed pans in hospitals across the nation, will make beds in hotels and motels across the nation, and will wait on diners in resaurants across the nation, NCL will find the same workers to work on cruise ships too.

[Kuffam]

If we look past DS ( then 18mos), we had an enjoyable time on POA this past January. DW and I found the staff nice and service OK. We didn't take the cruise for 5 star treatment (and we don't care for it much either), we took it for the Hawaiian travel at an affordable price.:)

 

I will say I wish America would change the Jones Act, I think the law is hurting american cruising. If more cruise ships went to Hawaii, the state's (and america's) economy would benefit. I feel sorry for the Hawaiian people, they live in some of the most beautiful places but almost live in poverty. I knew some nurses who lived there, and they had to work two jobs to keep their head above water.:(

 

Even though DW and I am a professionals (RNs), service is a major part of our profession. I admit I don't think many americans have a service excellence mentality. But, it is out there and we are developing it in our workplaces. Look at Disney, they have some of the best customer service in the country, and I would say 3/4 of them are Americans! We just have to change how we present service occupations to our children. That the nurses aide who cleans someone's backside, janitors or the garbageman who clean the streets are respectable jobs if their done right.

[Cosmopolitan]

Aren't the Pride of Aloha and the Pride of America ships getting the WORST reviews of the room stewards? Room cleanliness and service?

 

Norwegian Dawn has far fewer complaints! We have sailed the Dawn twice within the past year. Our room was always immaculate. Our room stewards knew us by name and what we expected. We do expect 5 star treatment. We are paying for it.

 

We have also been to Disney's Grand Floridian (Concierge level)..at least 20 times. Their service has disintegrated yearly!

 

Comparing Disney to NCL....NCL, at least the Dawn, wins hands-down!

 

We will review the Jewel soon...but Shoreguy has great reviews.

 

Pride of Aloha and Pride of America still have to prove themselves. Not a good job, thus far!

[honestguy]

bottomline is if you go by cruise critic member ratings NCL's whole fleet is subpar compared with. The other lines. I think they have huge issues with their upper management.