$236 Million Cruise Ship Deal Criticized-Carnival under fire

[cruisevers]

13 cruise companies responed to the request by FEMA for ships. Carnival was the only one that could meet all the requirements in the time frame needed. So don't be so sure you know who made bids.

 

My cruise was canceled and I admit it mad me upset that I could not rebook at the same price. I rebooked the 5 day which was shortened by Rita, which we opted to cancel. However prices have come back down and we have now rebooked on the Conquest for about the same price. It was a headache with all the changing.

 

Since this is a Government contract all figures should be publicly available. Fema is also being investigated for their actions and spending, including the Carnival deal, so all the details should be coming out.

 

I don't blame Carnival. It was a good business decision. If they had not contracted these ships, I do not believe they would have been able to fill all the space. Not sailing out of Mobile or New Orleans they probably would have sailed half full if all the ships were in Galveston. From a business stand point it was a win win situation. I would be very happy if I were a stockholder. It was a smart move.

 

I just wish they had honored the fares people had right away. I think they missed the "boat" on this part and alianated many loyal passengers. It would have made everything much easier if they had just moved everyone they could, over to the Conquest in the first place.

[Lady of the Lakes]

After reading the posts I thought to myself -Gosh Carnival was asked to help with the relief and did so and now it is getting blasted for it. It does not seem fair to me. I think that Carnival did a good thing not a bad thing in helping.

 

Thousands of companies will make money off the the rebuilding that is going on.

Lets not just pick on Carnival. After all they were "asked" to help.

[Chucksta63]

It had nothing to do with RCI not caring. FEMA went to Carnival and asked them to put together a price for leasing their ships. As I said above, Bob Dickinson is no dummy and will not lose money on a venture like this. Especially since he gets his three ships totally refurbished at the taxpayers expense. Yes, our government screwed this one up big time but you can bet Carnival saw them coming a mile away.

 

Also, Carnival had a choice in this. They could have said no if they wanted to keep sailing with their passengers. I know that Carnival only had a few days to put this figure together but they need to be willing to go back and take a look at it once again to see if it really is costing them that much to take those three ships out of service.

Do you think Halliburton is doing this,, re thinking there price?? Think not... Why should Carnival re-think?

[cruisevers]

As I posted above....13 companies bid, not just Carnival. Others could not provide the services called for in the contract. Haliburton was a non bid situation. A little different.

[brn2crz]

I wonder if the initial cost covered the refurbishment estimate...

Looks like now the refurbishments wont be needed,at least because of the

use by the Gov.

 

It had nothing to do with RCI not caring. FEMA went to Carnival and asked them to put together a price for leasing their ships. As I said above, Bob Dickinson is no dummy and will not lose money on a venture like this. Especially since he gets his three ships totally refurbished at the taxpayers expense. Yes, our government screwed this one up big time but you can bet Carnival saw them coming a mile away.

 

Also, Carnival had a choice in this. They could have said no if they wanted to keep sailing with their passengers. I know that Carnival only had a few days to put this figure together but they need to be willing to go back and take a look at it once again to see if it really is costing them that much to take those three ships out of service.

[BigDoug]

Wasn't just the Washington Post that printed this story.

 

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=globalNews&storyID=2005-09-28T035017Z_01_DIT785875_RTRUKOC_0_US-HURRICANES-CONTRACTS.xml

 

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/28/MNGF8EUVAT1.DTL

 

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2005-09-15-cruise-ship_x.htm

 

Bob Dickinson and Carnival do not lose money on anything. Carnival is going to make money on this deal you can bet that. Plus they will get three ships refurbished by the tax payers.

 

Thank you for making my point. If you had bothered to read the articles referenced, you would have found the following:

Reuters quotes Rev. Jesse Jackson - a very unbiased source - about "white collar looters".

SFGATE: The Military Sealift Command negotiated the contract with Carnival not FEMA. FEMA only requested the ships.

USAToday: Refurbishment costs are not part of this emergency contract.

[greatam]

I posted some "inside" knowledge on the Carnival board when the contract first was announced.

 

We own a logistics company, which is shipping LOTS of trailer loads of food to these ships. This is food NOT purchased by Carnival, but by the federal government, under normal governement contracts.

 

For those of you who think Carnival did this out of the goodness of their hearts, think again. It was strictly a business decision. Carnival is going to make a LOT of money off this deal. No fuel, except to run the generators, very little food, and few employees. Those are the largest items to any cruiseline. Insurance is being provided, over and above what Carnival normally carries, by FEMA. Sure, they are loosing the extras-casino, photos, drinks. But with the largest outlays not being needed, this was a VERY good deal for Carnival. Too bad they treated their booked passengers so crudely.

 

And for all of you blasting Halliburton, Bechtel, Fluor, Shaw, etc. for their no-bid contracts. Who would you like to do this massive job? Who has equipment and employees available at a moments notice? Who has the logistics capabilities to make these things happen, other than the military? You want bid contracts-How long do you want to make the suffering people in NOLA wait before something is done? Government bid contracts can go on for months and months.

 

I agree that there will be lots of money "misspent". But in a major disaster situation, there are a very limited amount of companies that have the capabilities to mobilize large equipment and thousands of people in a very short period of time. The major contractors also use LOTS of subs to provide all kinds of things-1000's of porta potties, food, fuel, etc. They also give the subs no bid contracts-if the initial figures look correct, first come first served. Who has time to dicker over $5.00 when people need food, water and porta potties?

[stbmom]

I think a big thing that should be considered is the fact that Carnival also had to displease A LOT of their customers. Booking a ship for six months. I know there was a dry docking, but many folks had their trips cancelled - some good will efforts will have to be done. Also - no company is going to just "break even" for six months - that is just stupid. Carnival is not a non-profit organization, they are a business with shareholders that expect a profit.

For all the "bad guy" images of big business, the truth of the matter is the cruise industry as a whole provides a lot of jobs and a better life for many folks all over the world. Not the pay we are used to in the U.S., but much better than many people will ever see in their home countries. You have to take the good with the bad when it comes to businesses.

Also - using cruise ships for more than just a couple weeks was a really dumb idea. Emergency housing is one thing - a long term residence is another. This was a bad decision by FEMA amongst a host of bad decisions - from the local, state, and federal government. But, we live and we learn - at one point in history folks thought slavery was a good idea too. This country is great not because we don't make mistakes, but because we learn from a lot of the really, really bad ones.

[jetskier]

Both the Holiday and the Sensation were scheduled for refurbs so from that standpoint it was a good business decision to use those ships. What I hate to see is Carnival not using the Port of Mobile. They are going to move the Holiday over to Pascagoula for the rest of its contract with FEMA. The cruise terminal is backed by the teacher's retirement plan. With one ship they were just making it to pay off the debt. Before the hurricane hit, there were plans to get a second ship in port. The cruise terminal did an excellant job of getting back open. The hurricane hit on Monday and we were able to sail out of it on Saturday at almost full capacity.

Dave

[K&RCurt]

Many media outlets are screaming about the high cost per person per week for those on the Carnival ships.

 

 

The company I work for has several major customers in the NOLA area. We have been trying to get some service techs into the area to assist these customers in getting back running. As everyone is well aware most of New Orleans is uninhabitable. The people needed to bring the city back need a place to stay. Where do you suggest they house them? The only hotel open is the Royal Sonesta in the French Quarter. They NORMALY charge aprox $300.00 / night it's MUCH higher now and it's full. $300.00/night x 7 nights/week = $2100.00 per week...just for the room and in reality is closer to double that.

 

The $1,300.00 pp per/week food included from Carnival is a bargin. And it certainly isn't carnival's fault that FEMA isn't putting more relief workers on the ships.

[mandm33]

As I posted above....13 companies bid, not just Carnival. Others could not provide the services called for in the contract. Haliburton was a non bid situation. A little different.

 

Just as a point of reference...you may want to re-read the article...I believe it says 13 ships, and not 13 companies. Take away the three Carnival ships and the one ferry, and there were only 9 ships that didn't meet FEMA's requirements.

[cruisevers]

Thanks you may be right mandm, however the point I was making was that Carnival was not the only one asked to bid and that it was a bidding situation. Previous posters talked as if Carnival was a) the only one asked to contribute and b) RCI and others did not respond (we actually do not know Who responded) which were both wrong. Just tired of hearing that Carnival is the only one who "volunteered".

 

Just for the record, I think it is a wonderful idea to use for workers but did not think it was a good idea for evacuees. JMHO:)

[kryos]

I'm feeling sorry for the crew on those ships. I'm sure the evacuees are not going to tip like regular cruise passengers do.

Why should the evacuees tip one red cent? They aren't there because they want to be. They are not getting the level of service they would be getting if they were sailing on a vacation.

 

From what I understand the people being housed on those ships are only getting basic services ... meals, maybe cabin clean-up, etc. The bars, pools and casinos are all closed. No entertainment at all available onboard ... other than perhaps self-hosted board and card games.

 

No, I wouldn't even think about leaving tips if I were staying onboard. Rather, I would assume that the cruiseline was doing right by the service personnel onboard by raising the levels of their wages to absorb those lost tips for the duration of the ship's deployment for hurricane relief.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

I wonder if the initial cost covered the refurbishment estimate...

Looks like now the refurbishments wont be needed,at least because of the

use by the Gov.

Why would refurbishments not be needed? I don't understand.

 

Even if only relief workers and government personnel were housed there, the ship is gonna see some major wear and tear over six months. Just imagine ... tracking mud and God knows what else onboard everytime they come back from a full day working on construction sites or other "dirty" type work. Kicking back in the Lido after mealtimes ... having fun, getting rowdy ... broken chairs, broken this ... broken that. It's not your home. You're not really gonna care if you accidently break something because you got a little out of control during that game of foozeball up on the Lido deck.

 

Also, I would think that a lot of stuff was taken off the ships before they were deployed for relief work. Dining rooms could have been stripped, some bars ... the casino, stores, art work, etc. That stuff is all gonna need to be reinstalled and spruced up before the ship can sail with paying passengers again.

 

I still think the ships are gonna need refurbishment before they are put back into normal use.

 

But, someone correct me if I am misunderstanding something here.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[jwlane]

I'm feeling sorry for the crew on those ships. I'm sure the evacuees are not going to tip

I doubt the tip reliant employees are still on the ship.

[srlucado]

"They must have donated a lot of money to George W.'s campaign."

 

Yeah, I'm sure they did.

 

Let's follow the trail...

 

Bush doesn't sign the Kyoto Treaty, which causes instant global warming. (It's true! Just ask Barbra Streisand!)

 

Knowing this will lead to massive hurricanes, he solicits campaign contributions from cruise lines, knowing that New Orleans will be devastated and naturally, the obvious place to put people will be on cruise ships. (After all, it's not like the cruise lines have any passengers or anything on their ships.)

 

Other lines are skeptical, but Carnival sees an opportunity, so they donate a zillion dollars to get Bush elected. (Remember all those "Vote for Bush and get a free cruise" bumper stickers? No?)

 

Months pass. Years, even. An entire election cycle! But no hurricane. Alas.

 

Then, when all seems lost, the long-promised hurricane arrives, all those nasty Democrats are flooded out...and it's jackpot time for Carnival!

 

I wonder how much Carnival will donate in 2008.

 

Excuse me, I have to go re-fold my tinfoil hat. The CIA satellites will be passing overhead in two minutes.

[greatam]

srlucado,

 

Please refold that hat immediately. And make sure you make a couple extras. If Mary Landrieu has her way, there will be NO MORE tinfoil for the rest of us. Only people in Louisianna will be protected.

 

So glad someone gets it. Carnival made a VERY shrewd business decision. They will make lots of money off this deal. It was not a humanitarian gesture.

 

I just really resent the way they treated their displaced passengers. For that reason only, I will sail my QE2 cruise in January. Probably one of the last times QE2 will dock in NYC. Other than that, I will not sail Carnival Corportation ships again.

[jetskier]

I doubt the tip reliant employees are still on the ship.

Half of the ship's crew were sent home, especially most of the females. We were on the last cruise on the Holiday before it was turned over to FEMA.

There was a moving farewell by the CD to the crew.

Dave

[Newcastle]

I think that everyone on this board should boycot any company that makes any money at all because of these storms, how could they do that at a time like this. They should all just give everything they have away and just shut down.

[mtchg]

..Thanks for posting some sanity!

 

..And this "bid" thing is ridiculous..the fact is there are very few companies that can embark on a clean up/reconstrutction of this magnitude..Haliburton is one of them..

 

Shaw also has a great reputation yet..it's founder is a big wig Louisiana Democrat. Huh???

Ooops, don't want to disrupt the "Bush Hater" paradigm.

 

Mitch

[Erie Dave]

I think that everyone on this board should boycot any company that makes any money at all because of these storms, how could they do that at a time like this. They should all just give everything they have away and just shut down.[/QU

 

This has to be the silliest comment on this board. What planet are you from?

Everyone involved in the cleanup, reconstruction, repair etc will make money. That is the only chance the economy has to rebound from a huge disaster like this. Gosh, get a clue!!!

[Newcastle]

Re-read my post and realize that it is pointed at the people who are bashing Carnival for making money by letting FEMA use 3 ships, of course companies are going to make money, that is the American way, and bashing Carnival, for any reason is the way of people who think that sailing on a different line makes the better, smarter, richer or wiser.

[Erie Dave]

I think most of the Carnival bashing is happening because of the way Carnival promoted it. It was a huge humanitarian and generous jesture by Carnival corp.....BS, it was for the money, plain and simple. I don't expect to see any of the contractors rebuilding the city making press releases about their charity....Carnival played this up, but now the truth is out.

[Newcastle]

I don't remeber once seeing Carnival say that they were doing this out of the kindness of their harts, not once did they say we are going to eat the cost. I am sorry, but if you don't think they should have helped the way they did say so, don't try to make a big deal out of them making money.

[Erie Dave]

I think you missed me there---making money is what makes the world go round. But all of the original press about Carnival was about how wonderful they were and even on this board, a bunch of posts cam up slamming RCI for not doing the same. It wasn't about doing the right thing, it was about making money---making money is great, just don't pretend thats not what it is about.