Royal Caribbean Fights Back!

[wolfganghowell]

Corona - I have one flaw in your theory. Call me the spoilsport. The security cameras apparently show JHS getting off the elevator on the 9th floor and going left instead of right (or right instead of left - I forget which). This puts her on the hallway where she was found passed out.

 

Also Josh was never identified by name as the one being in Marie's office - those of us who have been following this made that leap based on evidence so far.

 

Hazen - wise wise words.

 

Sunshine - I have a great life -thanks. Perhaps some of us are interested in true crime/cruising/mystery/journalism/legal system etc. (And I am a shareholder so that adds to my interest) But thanks for your concern. And now you don't have to read this thread anymore since you know it will never be solved.

 

I also loved JHS remark about the fight "this is the epitome of what I've had to endure." Gee, I forget that this is about HER. I would think the epitome of what she is enduring would be the loss of her husband. I know that a public fight would be humiliating at this time and I'm sure she regrets it but once again we are led back to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. She wants RCI to admit to every mistake they made but she refuses to admit she made ANY. I still don't believe she is directly responsible for GS death but she has to get a grasp of how this tragedy happened or she will never be able to recover and lead a healthy life.

[wolfganghowell]

oh - even though I'm a spolsport you can still be team captain. Or would that be CC CSI: Team Leader?

[kenf333]

oh - even though I'm a spolsport you can still be team captain. Or would that be CC CSI: Team Leader?

 

Yes but we elected you VP!!!!

[Barky]

Re: Jennifer's background - BEFORE - marriage to George ?

quote:

Originally posted by POPEYE

Anyone know ?

Info. taken from Court TV message board.

 

The bride was Jennifer Hagel from central Connecticut, daughter of a realtor and a builder who’d once been a policeman. Jennifer was a high-school athlete: varsity soccer, basketball and golf all four years. She graduated from Trinity College in Hartford.

[1corona4u]

Corona - I have one flaw in your theory. Call me the spoilsport. The security cameras apparently show JHS getting off the elevator on the 9th floor and going left instead of right (or right instead of left - I forget which). This puts her on the hallway where she was found passed out.

 

Also Josh was never identified by name as the one being in Marie's office - those of us who have been following this made that leap based on evidence so far.

 

Hazen - wise wise words.

 

Sunshine - I have a great life -thanks. Perhaps some of us are interested in true crime/cruising/mystery/journalism/legal system etc. (And I am a shareholder so that adds to my interest) But thanks for your concern. And now you don't have to read this thread anymore since you know it will never be solved.

 

 

Oh, and yes, Josh has been identified as the one in the office with jen...I'll get it for you....just read it again today....

I also loved JHS remark about the fight "this is the epitome of what I've had to endure." Gee, I forget that this is about HER. I would think the epitome of what she is enduring would be the loss of her husband. I know that a public fight would be humiliating at this time and I'm sure she regrets it but once again we are led back to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. She wants RCI to admit to every mistake they made but she refuses to admit she made ANY. I still don't believe she is directly responsible for GS death but she has to get a grasp of how this tragedy happened or she will never be able to recover and lead a healthy life.

 

I know Wolfie, and I did consider that. But there is no one to say, she didn't just walk right back out of that hall either. The original story was that a janitor had seen her go the wrong way. Not that they saw her through the security camera.

 

I'm not sure where the security camera angle came from though. Do you know?? At any rate, my theory revolves around her not just going down to that part of the hall and falling asleep, so if it is a fact that she was seen on the security camera, and not by a janitor or whatever, then I will have to rethink it.:) She may also have been going to someone else's cabin. We do not know what cabins any of the others were in, do we??

 

Oh and yes, it has been verified that Josh was the one in the office with Jen. I just read it again today...I'll post it in a min...working on the security cameras on the outside of the ship right now....

[sellwingri]

Barefoot,

 

If I had seen or heard something, I would have reported it. We didn't see the blood and the people we saw, Turkish or whatever, were cleaning the awning.

[wolfganghowell]

Corona - I thought it was Captain Wright who told Greta that the camera showed her going in the opposite direction. However if he said "we saw her" that could be a janitor rather than a camera. But I think their security cameras would have shown her going back to her room from the passed out location because she would have had to pass through a common area - in this care the area before the bank of elevators.

[kenf333]

I know Wolfie, and I did consider that. But there is no one to say, she didn't just walk right back out of that hall either. The original story was that a janitor had seen her go the wrong way. Not that they saw her through the security camera.

 

I'm not sure where the security camera angle came from though. Do you know?? At any rate, my theory revolves around her not just going down to that part of the hall and falling asleep, so if it is a fact that she was seen on the security camera, and not by a janitor or whatever, then I will have to rethink it.:) She may also have been going to someone else's cabin. We do not know what cabins any of the others were in, do we??

 

Oh and yes, it has been verified that Josh was the one in the office with Jen. I just read it again today...I'll post it in a min...working on the security cameras on the outside of the ship right now....

 

Yes it was a cleaning person. no mention of cams.

 

 

1corona4u you have mail.

[1corona4u]

Ok here is what I found out about some of the cameras onboard. Mind you, I have never been on the Brilliance, but you can bet when I am on the Jewel in November, I'll make notes of them...;) ..I'm sure they will be in the same locations...

 

 

I just looked through about 75 high rez images, and did not see anything on the side of the ship, other than loud speakers. So if they are there, they are well hidden.

 

Back of ship, there appears to be several.

 

http://image32.webshots.com/32/6/38/15/253663815TnBrzH_fs.jpg

Behind the bridge, I'm sure one of those is a camera. I think it's the small white can, because the same can is found on the back of the ship.

 

http://image28.webshots.com/29/0/6/31/350900631odhXkj_fs.jpg

Here is one on the promenade deck, pointing towards the person taking the pic. Same white can....now if the angle is wide enough, it might have caught him going over....

 

http://community.webshots.com/photo/130423534/1132973361044436419gsDuDd

And these could be cameras,(the eyeball looking things) next to the sprinklers http://community.webshots.com/photo/132962962/1132963873044436419gLrmmQ ...they are all pointed in a slightly different direction. If the guys did in fact go there looking for Jen, then they would have no doubt been caught on the cameras.....and there is definitely a camera here

http://image08.webshots.com/8/6/38/2/132963802xAfecI_fs.jpg

Here's a pic of the cameras in the casino.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/132962962/1132980392044436419mLgdHL

Here's one pointing at the pool deck.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/132983464/1132985539044436419fpfYPf

I gotta go get some stuff done...but obviously there are a number of cameras, but I could not find any in the pix I saw of the public areas inside the ship...will look more later....

 

OH, and a BIG thanks to "rsmahler", for the incredible high rez photos, and if you read this, please let me know what camera you have!! :)

[hermang]

Has Jennifer admitted that she and George were drinking Absinth - OR is this another Urban Legend. OR is this another Gee I don't remember???

 

All I hear about Absinthe is what the talking heads are reporting - no where is this confirmed by anyone

[Barky]

Has Jennifer admitted that she and George were drinking Absinth - OR is this another Urban Legend. OR is this another Gee I don't remember???

 

All I hear about Absinthe is what the talking heads are reporting - no where is this confirmed by anyone

 

She has no idea what she was drinking per Oprah's show.

[The Big Booper]

A slight detour for this thread.

 

The bimbo is upset that the ship sent Marie, the head of guest relations, with her on the visit to the Turkish police and judge rather than two ship's security people.

 

Marie as a part of her job would be multi-lingual, able to speak fluently in 6 or so languages or more. As we know, most of ship's security are former Ghurka soldiers from India, fierce soldiers but certainly not diplomats and CERTAINLY not completely multi-lingual. Who would you want assisting you in a foreign port where nobody speaks English as a first or even second language?

 

The airhead shoots herself in the foot one more. !!!!

[1corona4u]

Also Josh was never identified by name as the one being in Marie's office - those of us who have been following this made that leap based on evidence so far.

 

 

Here is what I read about that this morning, kind of explains how he may have gotten there(from dateline, many moons ago);

 

The young man’s lawyer says that earlier, before the meeting with Turkish authorities, Josh’s electronic swipe card set off a buzzer when he tried to leave the ship with his family.

 

Ship’s personnel escorted Josh to a guest services room where he says he saw Jennifer for the first time since leaving the disco bar about six hours before.

 

But, I find this puzzling;

Murphy:

What does he notice about Jennifer?

Greer:

The biggest thing was she’s wearing the same dress she was wearing the night before. She’s distraught. And she asked at some point in the time and they mentioned that there’s a question of ‘Where’s George?’

And Jennifer says to Josh: ‘What happened? I blacked out. I don’t remember anything after the casino.’

Murphy:

She drank too much and passed out?

Greer:

Blacked out.

Murphy:

Did she talk about going back to the cabin at some point?

Greer:

You know it’s interesting cause Josh does recall her saying to him that she went back to the cabin. Later, actually he remembers her saying she went to the gym.

______________________________________________

Marie said the two of them, Jen and Josh, did not speak. I would believe anything she says over Josh. marie said his mother spoke to Jen, but he did not.

 

Ok, now I really gotta go...LOL

[kenf333]

Look at 1corona's pics of the underside of life boat being lowered it looks to me based on boat size that there is no way in the world that if he fell or was pushed he could have made it over centerline. looks like 6/8 ft wide to the bare eye.

[Barefoot_Pirate]

Sell, it is a shame the two hundred pounds hitting the awning did not stir more folks. If just one person would have looked, the DH might be alive today.

 

I can't reconcile your memories of someone cleaning the awning, but you should call the FBI & MSNBC and let them know about RCCL's lies, since you are a witness.

[1corona4u]

Has Jennifer admitted that she and George were drinking Absinth - OR is this another Urban Legend. OR is this another Gee I don't remember???

 

All I hear about Absinthe is what the talking heads are reporting - no where is this confirmed by anyone

 

It was reported by the witness that talked about Jen kneeing him;

 

I couldn't tell if they were joking or not,'' Chaves said. "She walked over to him and kicked him ... and knocked him to the ground. She was laughing. We were all just kind of shocked.''

 

Hagel-Smith stormed out of the bar, while Smith returned to drinking with a group of men, Chaves said. The group was drinking absinthe, a highly potent drink, she said.

[1corona4u]

Look at 1corona's pics of the underside of life boat being lowered it looks to me based on boat size that there is no way in the world that if he fell or was pushed he could have made it over centerline. looks like 6/8 ft wide to the bare eye.

 

Captain Wright said it was 12' wide, and I believe that was stated on either Greta, or one of the other shows he was on. If you see people standing on it, it's easy to tell how wide it is, otherwise, it's hard to tell.

 

Ok, here's a way to look at it. It covers the lifeboats. Look how big the lifeboats are;

http://community.webshots.com/photo/104743973/243302409mIxqtA

 

Much wider that 4-8 feet.

[1corona4u]

Has Jennifer admitted that she and George were drinking Absinth - OR is this another Urban Legend. OR is this another Gee I don't remember???

 

All I hear about Absinthe is what the talking heads are reporting - no where is this confirmed by anyone

 

Here's another account;

(captain Wright, RCI)

 

COSBY: OK. There's also some other information that just came through. Two witnesses are saying that Jennifer Hagel-Smith kicked George in the groin, that they saw it, that they were drinking what's called absinthe, and this is something that is called legal, I'm told, in Europe and other countries overseas—not legal. It's a very, very strong liquor, right?

WRIGHT: Yes.

COSBY: Do you have evidence that they were drinking absinthe?.

WRIGHT: Yes. We have—I shouldn't say evidence, but we have also heard that there are individuals, guests who were on board, who observed them drinking absinthe.

COSBY: Did you—now, how—to what degree? Were they drunk with this stuff?

WRIGHT: No, that I have no opinion on. But we know that they were, from the comments that the guests have come with, that they were drinking absinthe. And it needs to be emphasized that the absinthe is a liquor that is not sold on board our vessels, although it is legally available in many European countries.

[wolfganghowell]

Boop - I caught that too. I thought her comments were very insulting to Marie - it was as if she was not high up enough for her. Marie was most likely chosen due to her fluency, her experience with guests and that she was most likely the most senior ranking crew member who was a woman. I think JHS has been VERY ungrateful toward Marie in particular. Marie seems to be a very poised graceful young woman who did the best she could under horrific circumstances and has maintained her composure throughout.

 

sell - I don't challenge what you believe you saw. I think your statements as an eyewitness are better served being told to the FBI than being told to us. You may indeed have been on the ship and I have no reason to doubt you. But since the internet is anonymous there is no way to prove or disprove your statements here. If you are indeed sure of what you saw, contact your local FBI office - not the media. Let law enforcement do its job.

[1corona4u]

Corona are you this thorough in everything you do? I'm impressed!

 

LOL, yes, I am very detail oriented. My business requires it.:) ;)

[Barefoot_Pirate]

Wolfie, the widow's treatment of Marie has always seemed strange. I have the same impression. Every time I have seen her, Marie comes across as honest and sincere. That was the first of DW's actions/statements which made me wonder about her...and many more now.

 

Sorry for suggesting Sell talk to MSNBC.... first talk to FBI is the proper answer.

 

Corona's pointing out of DW not being seen in bed at 7:00 still is bouncing around in my noodle..... how could anyone be up with that much booze in them?? Could she have known DH was overboard, and her mind was racing, or could she have been on speed (but with booze wouldn't that kill ya??). Anyway if she was wondering around the ship at 7, she is on tape and people saw her... hopefully she was just under the covers. I just can't reconcile the spa thinng and this just makes it even more so.

[kenf333]

Captain Wright said it was 12' wide, and I believe that was stated on either Greta, or one of the other shows he was on. If you see people standing on it, it's easy to tell how wide it is, otherwise, it's hard to tell.

 

Ok, here's a way to look at it. It covers the lifeboats. Look how big the lifeboats are;

http://community.webshots.com/photo/104743973/243302409mIxqtA

 

Much wider that 4-8 feet.

 

There is no way he could have fell by him self and landed were the blood spots were, that would be 6 ft out, now remember the upper body is heavier than the lower meaning he would have landed closer to the other balconies, if he fell. Now if he was helped he may have made it out further, but not to many people could pitch 210lbs 12ft out clearing the overhang. Also the blood smears look like he was dragged off after he laid there, not slipping, as it would take about as much to roll him off of that as it would most out of bed.

[stanford's girl]

Does it appear to anyone else that the widow's attorney is less out front on this?

 

He may be holding back unitl Mr. Moto (aka Dr. Lee) comes in with his "findings", or complaints about RCCL not helping thier "investigation" (code for "we did not find anything to sue on, so let's just imagine we found something to sue on"). If I were RCCL I would not let the widow and her band of merry bandits on my property without a court order!!!

 

What exactly is the dummy test supposed to prove...how far the DH bounced? No, just trying to find something they can say could have been done/found/etc. if RCCL done something differently.

Saw Dr. Lee on Nancy Grace last night. I know he's suppose to be the best but his thoughts sound more like Inspector Clouseau.

RCCL is NOT letting him do his dummy over the railing thing.

[stanford's girl]

I don't know what actually happened and who was responsible for George Smith's disappearance but I do know that Royal Caribbean is lying. I was on that cruise, in a 7th floor balcony, 4 cabins over and 2 down from the Smith's cabin. The awning was outside our balcony.

On your roll call post, you said 2 floors down and 5 cabins over. So is it 4 or 5 cabins over???:confused:

[caviargal]

Wolfie, the widow's treatment of Marie has always seemed strange. I have the same impression. Every time I have seen her, Marie comes across as honest and sincere. That was the first of DW's actions/statements which made me wonder about her...and many more now.

 

Sorry for suggesting Sell talk to MSNBC.... first talk to FBI is the proper answer.

 

QUOTE]

 

 

 

Maybe Jennifer tried to push Marie around and was not successful. Perhaps Marie was not buying her BS and Jennifer sensed that.

 

I, too, think that if I was in that situation, I would have appreciated the presence of Marie and not maligned it.