Royal Caribbean Fights Back!

[EBFURR]

Furr, then we have three buddies in and three out, before the big thud. If this is based upon third party statements (staff person and cop) then that is a big bit of news.

 

Hummmm, the drinking buddies are looking better all the time, and the widow is looking a little hung over. IMHO

 

Pirate, note from the above:

 

Then they went back down to George`s level, and all four of them got off, according to this witness, at George`s level.

 

So you have 3 buddies, then 4 again when they get off on deck 9. Also, this story indicates that they (GS and the "gang") seperated then got back together, Josh's story has them all 4 together the whole time - straight from the disco to the cabin, then to the hot tub.

 

Finely, I am trying to find the interview that I read in which Josh states that the 2 larger of the "russians" basically "carried" GS back to the room. He used very descriptive terms to indicate a severely intoxicated GS.

 

Again, this is to cast doubt on Josh's story and credibility. His story has been widely used as fact by a lot of people in the media.

[EBFURR]

OK guys, here you go. From Scarborough interview with Kieth Greer, Josh's attorney:

 

SCARBOROUGH: I‘m here talking to the attorney for Josh Askin, Keith Greer.

You look at that interrogation tape right there, Keith, and your client is saying, “I am not letting her go to jail. She didn‘t know what happened to George. She was with another man.” That was at 3:15 a.m. that she left, according to your client, with another man. What happened after that? Here you have George, again, to reset this, George is sitting in the disco, so drunk, according to your client, he can‘t even hold a cigarette.

 

GREER: 3:15, Jennifer leaves. 3:30, the disco closes, everybody‘s taken home. The boys walk—the three Russian boys and Josh walked George up, the three bigger Russian boys carrying him. They get to the cabin about 3:35 or so, 3:40. They notice Jennifer‘s not there. George is concerned about it. There‘s talk, there‘s a lot of noise, there‘s been a lot of drinking, it‘s a loud crew. This is what Clete Hyman heard with the loud noise in the room, the first time that he woke up that evening.

 

SCARBOROUGH: Just to interrupt you, Keith, for those that don‘t—that weren‘t watching when Clete came on a couple of times. Clete was the guy that came on and—on this show and gave us a timeline of what he heard next door, but anyway, go ahead. Continue.

 

GREER: All right. They decide to go look for Jennifer. They leave the room. They walk to the solarium, the Jacuzzi. They can‘t find Jennifer. They go back.

 

SCARBOROUGH: Is George with them?

 

GREER: Yes, with George. They go back to George‘s room. At that point in time, the decision is made just to call it an evening. The other boys, the Russian boys, take George, put him down in his bed, set him down for the evening. Josh actually used the facility in the room at the time. They weren‘t there for very long. They.

 

SCARBOROUGH: Was George—I hate to interrupt you. I‘m just curious, though. I know a lot of people want to know, what was George‘s reaction? Here he is on a honeymoon cruise his wife of, what, a week, maybe is gone with another man, again, according to your client. Is George depressed, is he crying, is he angry? What is his response?

 

GREER: You know, not at this point. He‘s still in that “thanks, guys for helping.” He actually kisses one of the guys on the cheek. I guess, “I love you man” kind of things. It hasn‘t—he hasn‘t gone into that deep ravine yet while the boys are there with him. They say goodbye, goodbye, shuffle out the door. That‘s what Clete Hyman said, he—sounded like people were saying “goodbye, goodbye,” trying to get everybody out the door and they left, the door closed and it was quiet. Consistent with what...

 

SCARBOROUGH: What time was that? About 4:00?

 

GREER: It was about 4:00. After that, the boys go off to one of the other boys‘ room, they ordered an incredible amount of room service, they eat the food, and about 5:15 or so in the morning, Josh winds up leaving the other boy‘s morning and going to bed. The critical part of this case, Joe.

[Barefoot_Pirate]

Furr, my reading was that the 4 count was DH + 3. But again, I may be misunderstanding the true meaning.

 

I've had that question for a long time....but now I am leaning towards DH + 3, as that ties to the theme of what was said in the previous breath.

 

The good news is that the FBI should know exactly.

[Fury1995]

If you keep digging back to the earlier interviews and reports, they are even odder:

 

And this from August 1st on CBS's The Early Show interview with Mickey Sherman CBS legal consultant (who coincidentally went to highschool with the SR Mr. Smith) and the US Attorney in Conn., Kevin O'Conner:

 

On The Early Show Monday, he (Sherman) told Storm the Smiths are a "well-known family. …Everyone has always had nothing but the best regard for this family. Never any trouble. The best reputation. Nice people, active in the community. Again, I don't know them now, but I know of them. No one would have anything negative to say about them at any time."

 

Hagel and both her and Smith's families have been completely tightlipped, which Sherman says he respects: "A lot of people are not disappointed, but frustrated with that. We in the media seem to be frustrated by that. But, as opposed to some of the other cases that we've seen, whether it's (Michael) Jackson or (Scott) Peterson, I laud them, both sides, for not parading out lawyers or family spokespeople or whatnot.

"According to the U.S. Attorney in Connecticut (Kevin O'Connor), who has now got control of this case, they've been nothing but cooperative, both sides. And that's all they really need to do."

 

Ummmm....... cooperative? Not according to the Smith's paraded out lawyers or family spokepeople and whatnot.

 

What a laugh......

[Fury1995]

Furr, my reading was that the 4 count was DH + 3. But again, I may be misunderstanding the true meaning.

 

I've had that question for a long time....but now I am leaning towards DH + 3, as that ties to the theme of what was said in the previous breath.

 

The good news is that the FBI should know exactly.

 

But didn't Josh state himself that he and all 3 of the Russians took George back to his cabin from the disco? Also I thought someone on the crew reported the same number of men id the elevator. That makes a total of 5. I'm going to look for that again.... I may be wrong...

[Barefoot_Pirate]

Fury, he may have, but then they left again in search for DW. At that point the count may go down...one of the amigos decides that he would rather go to bed than deal with the drama of these newlyweds.:confused:

[AFT_LOVER]

I happened to be channel surfing on our Directv, and stopped at Tony Danza Show as he had is African Grey named Rocky on, and my AG went nuts yelling "what a dummy" at his bird.

 

He introduces Mario Cuomo's son who is a Primtetime reporter who is doing the missing people off cruise ships, which will be an ad for Carnival IMHO. As he takes a seat & they start to talk, Pres Bush breaks in with his press conference, so that killed that show...........

 

All my TIVO last night was nothing much, only Greta mentioned RCCL with their former FBI profiler on stating that everything has been done, Dr Lee & his dummy will happen in February. FBI is ready to talk, so we wait!

[Fury1995]

So not to get off the subject but is it correct that Josh Askin's family was also removed in Naples by the cruiseline?

 

This is from the NYTimes article on Jan 7th from the Grand Jury review of the "Rape Case". Both the Askin family attorney and the "Russians" family attorney were there:

 

But the case took an unexpected turn this week when Royal Caribbean

disclosed that it had expelled two families from the ship four days

after Mr. Smith's disappearance because of "an allegation of sexual

assault against a female passenger" by some members of those families.

 

Two videotapes of the alleged assault, made by the participants, are

now in the hands of the authorities, the cruise line said, adding, "The

young men involved contended the encounter was consensual, but the

woman adamantly denied that."

 

Keith Greer, a lawyer representing one of the families, said yesterday

that the rape report was now part of an F.B.I. investigation. He said

he was hired by the family to help them cooperate in the investigation

and to pursue civil remedies. He said he had notified Royal Caribbean

of his clients' intention to sue over their removal from the ship.

 

One member of that family, Josh Askin, a 20-year-old college student,

has told reporters that he and three friends from a New York-based

family also removed from the ship had helped Mr. Smith return to his

cabin after a night of drinking. Mr. Smith disappeared a short time

later. According to Mr. Greer, Mr. Askin believes that neither he nor

his friends "did anything criminal" at any point on the cruise.

 

Both Mr. Greer and company officials said that Mr. Askin was prevented

by crew members from debarking when the ship docked at Kusadasi,

Turkey, the morning after Mr. Smith's disappearance. They said he was

put in a room with the missing man's wife, Jennifer Hagel Smith, as she

was being informed that her husband was lost, and was questioned about

the disappearance later that day by Turkish authorities in his parents'

presence, before being released.

So the Askin family will be suing because of RCCL investigating him and preventing him from disembarking the ship in Turkey as well????

[Fury1995]

So we (or the media) may actually get more information from the alleged rape case if it goes to trial first.

[Barky]

So not to get off the subject but is it correct that Josh Askin's family was also removed in Naples by the cruiseline?

 

This is from the NYTimes article on Jan 7th from the Grand Jury review of the "Rape Case". Both the Askin family attorney and the "Russians" family attorney were there:

 

But the case took an unexpected turn this week when Royal Caribbean

disclosed that it had expelled two families from the ship four days

after Mr. Smith's disappearance because of "an allegation of sexual

assault against a female passenger" by some members of those families.

 

Two videotapes of the alleged assault, made by the participants, are

now in the hands of the authorities, the cruise line said, adding, "The

young men involved contended the encounter was consensual, but the

woman adamantly denied that."

 

Keith Greer, a lawyer representing one of the families, said yesterday

that the rape report was now part of an F.B.I. investigation. He said

he was hired by the family to help them cooperate in the investigation

and to pursue civil remedies. He said he had notified Royal Caribbean

of his clients' intention to sue over their removal from the ship.

 

One member of that family, Josh Askin, a 20-year-old college student,

has told reporters that he and three friends from a New York-based

family also removed from the ship had helped Mr. Smith return to his

cabin after a night of drinking. Mr. Smith disappeared a short time

later. According to Mr. Greer, Mr. Askin believes that neither he nor

his friends "did anything criminal" at any point on the cruise.

 

Both Mr. Greer and company officials said that Mr. Askin was prevented

by crew members from debarking when the ship docked at Kusadasi,

Turkey, the morning after Mr. Smith's disappearance. They said he was

put in a room with the missing man's wife, Jennifer Hagel Smith, as she

was being informed that her husband was lost, and was questioned about

the disappearance later that day by Turkish authorities in his parents'

presence, before being released.

 

So the Askin family will be suing because of RCCL investigating him and preventing him from disembarking the ship in Turkey as well????

 

See underlined blue area for the reason for the suit. :)

[Barky]

So we (or the media) may actually get more information from the alleged rape case if it goes to trial first.

 

I anxiously await some NEW info. All we're getting is the same old same old.

[wolfganghowell]

Wow - sounds like the Askins raised such a nice moral young man (sarcasm firmly in place)

 

From what I recall, whoever had jurisdiction over the videotape of the alleged rape felt the tape did not show one way or the other whether the act was consensual or not. So it does not appear that that will ever come to trial. I also recall that the young woman involved recanted once it was all said and done - probably the sad case of she drank too much liquor and doesn't have good recall of events.

 

Once this surfaced the captain knocked them all off the ship -I guess enough was enough. My disgust of it is that this happened within a day or two of GS going over. These young men have to be sociopaths - they certainly didn't let what happened to George damper their vacation. And why in the world would Askin's parents let him continue to hang with these people? What kind of idiot parents do this? Yes, I know 20 is an adult but I still "obeyed" my parents rules as long as they supported me and since Josh is in college we can assume it's on daddy and mommy's nickel. It's like the players in this little drama are the worst of what our society offers - no morals, no self control, no character, no ethics and certainly no conscience.

[EBFURR]

If you read the Greer interview carefully, you will note some inconsistency both within Josh's story and also with other witness accounts. Here are a few that I notice:

 

First, the conflict with the RCI emplyee (above post) who says GS goes to room alone & returns to the pool deck where the boys are waiting. No mention of this by Josh.

 

Second, the boys Carry GS to the cabin, drink some more, then GS is able to walk around with them searching for JHS. Maybe no one else has a problem with this, but it does not sound logical to me.

 

Third, even given the fact that times are not exact as pointed out by Pirate, the timeline of Greer's story is no where close to Clete's, or for that matter RCI's security records. Herewith:

They get to the cabin about 3:35 or so, 3:40. They notice Jennifer‘s not there. George is concerned about it. There‘s talk, there‘s a lot of noise, there‘s been a lot of drinking, it‘s a loud crew. This is what Clete Hyman heard with the loud noise in the room, the first time that he woke up that evening.

Then:

GREER: All right. They decide to go look for Jennifer. They leave the room. They walk to the solarium, the Jacuzzi. They can‘t find Jennifer. They go back.

After finding no sign of JHS:

GREER: Yes, with George. They go back to George‘s room. At that point in time, the decision is made just to call it an evening. The other boys, the Russian boys, take George, put him down in his bed, set him down for the evening. Josh actually used the facility in the room at the time. They weren‘t there for very long. They.

More about putting GS to bed:

GREER: You know, not at this point. He‘s still in that “thanks, guys for helping.” He actually kisses one of the guys on the cheek. I guess, “I love you man” kind of things. It hasn‘t—he hasn‘t gone into that deep ravine yet while the boys are there with him. They say goodbye, goodbye, shuffle out the door. That‘s what Clete Hyman said, he—sounded like people were saying “goodbye, goodbye,” trying to get everybody out the door and they left, the door closed and it was quiet. Consistent with what...

 

SCARBOROUGH: What time was that? About 4:00?

 

GREER: It was about 4:00. After that, the boys go off to one of the other boys‘ room, they ordered an incredible amount of room service, they eat the food, and about 5:15 or so in the morning, Josh winds up leaving the other boy‘s morning and going to bed. The critical part of this case, Joe.

 

Problem: This has the noise at 3:35-3:40. After that, they leave for the solarium. By 4:00, GS is kissing guys on the cheek and saying goodnight. The noise complaint for the party noises was recieved by RCI security at 4:05 AM according to the RCI timeline. The 3 amigos were witnessed leaving around 4:20 or so according to Clete.

 

Another problem: This story has the crew partying, then leaving and quietly returning. Clete has multiple people in the room continuously after being awakened. He also hears arguing on the balcony, slamming noises, etc. Maybe GS was just a noisy kisser.

 

Maybe they did leave the room to go to the solarium after Clete bangs the wall & that is why the room is quiet when security arrives. If that was the case, then the timeline gets pushed even closer together because the first security visit for the noise is well after 4:00AM (4:20 - 4:25, I believe). This would put them getting back into the room after that and then RCI comes looking for GS to escort JHS around 4:40 or so.

 

I have more on Josh, but it will have to wait for later. Not saying he done it, but it sure looks like he is hiding something.

[Fury1995]

Ok, this is from NBC's Dateline December 13th:

 

Continuing Josh’s version of events, he and the three Russians stumbled George to his cabin on deck 9. When they see there’s no Jennifer, George changes his shirt and they all set out again to find her.

It’s now about 3:45 a.m.. The posee of five heads right to the place that the young people on board know as the after-hours hook-up place.

Greer:

They go to the Jacuzzi in the solarium area. No Jennifer. So it’s 5, 10 minutes there are very short amount of time looking because it’s obvious there’s nobody else there. And then five, ten minutes back to the room which puts them back to the room at about 4:00 a.m.

Josh describes a tame ending to the night. He uses George’s bathroom as the Russians tuck in their drunken friend.

Greer:

The other boys put him down on the bed, take his shoes off, leave the room, ‘Goodbye goodbye, let’s go we’re outta here.’ They go down to one of the Russian boys’ rooms, order an incredible amount of room service, room service shows up 4:30, 4:45—with the food. They eat. Josh is back in bed by 5:15 that morning

[EBFURR]

Ok, this is from NBC's Dateline December 13th:

 

Continuing Josh’s version of events, he and the three Russians stumbled George to his cabin on deck 9. When they see there’s no Jennifer, George changes his shirt and they all set out again to find her.

 

It’s now about 3:45 a.m.. The posee of five heads right to the place that the young people on board know as the after-hours hook-up place.

Greer:

They go to the Jacuzzi in the solarium area. No Jennifer. So it’s 5, 10 minutes there are very short amount of time looking because it’s obvious there’s nobody else there. And then five, ten minutes back to the room which puts them back to the room at about 4:00 a.m.

 

Josh describes a tame ending to the night. He uses George’s bathroom as the Russians tuck in their drunken friend.

Greer:

The other boys put him down on the bed, take his shoes off, leave the room, ‘Goodbye goodbye, let’s go we’re outta here.’ They go down to one of the Russian boys’ rooms, order an incredible amount of room service, room service shows up 4:30, 4:45—with the food. They eat. Josh is back in bed by 5:15 that morning

 

Fury, I'm all over that with you. Your quote and mine have the boys softly saying goonight to GS at 4:00 or so.

 

From RCI Jan 3, 2006:

II. THE CREW RESPONDED APPROPRIATELY TO THE SINGLE NOISE COMPLAINT

 

At 4:05 a.m. during the night, a guest in one of the cabins adjoining the Smiths' cabin called the Guest Relations desk and complained about loud voices and drinking game noises coming from the Smith cabin. Security went to the Smith cabin in response to that complaint, but the noise had already stopped, and there was no answer to our knocking. We now know from interviews of passengers conducted after Mr. Smith was found missing that the guest pounded on the wall at about the same time he called the Guest Relations desk and the noises stopped almost immediately. Since there was no noise when security arrived or any report or sign of violence or danger, security left believing all was well. We had no justification for invading a guest cabin on the basis of one simple partying noise complaint.

 

There you go. According to Greer (Josh), the noise was at 4:40 and then they left the room. When they returned at 4:00, GS was a teddy bear. Why the noise complaint at 4:05???

[Fury1995]

So in one statement Josh's attorney (Greer) says, all five go back to GS's cabin (for a second time) at 4:00 am. In another statement, Josh's attorney (Greer) says the three of them leave GS in his cabin at about 4:00 am after putting GS to bed and then have room service deliver food to one of the Russians' cabin by 4:30 ... and not just some but an "incredible amount" of food... (wish room service was always that quick). Both statement are made by Josh's attorney based on Josh's account. That's alot of things happening in just moments......

[Barefoot_Pirate]

Once we accept the concept of reported times being only a range, and the words reported as being loose, then we are back to having DH alone, or having someone with him (DW or one of the amigos).

 

Although his time ranges may be estimates, Clete will have the sequence correct. He saw three amigos leave before the big thud. So if ya knows how many amigos returned with DH to the cabin after the search for the DW we should know if there is the possibiltiy on one of the amigos to have remained in the room. The FBI should know..IMHO

[stanford's girl]

the issue I have is that is from a cruiseline employee who wishes to remain anonymous. With that critical a fact as to the number of people, and getting that nailed down tight, I am not too happy to hear this person is just saying stuff without really getting interrogated.

 

I have to believe that the cruise employee who was in the elevator with them is not anonymous to RC or the FBI. There are cameras in the elevators and if this guy is telling the truth, it would be on one of those films that RC turned over to the FBI. I'm sure that the FBI knows who was in that elevator and at what time.

[Barefoot_Pirate]

Fury, sometimes the count is specific and sometimes it is just a term like "they"...they could be DH +3 or DH + 4.

 

I thought we now had a witness who is saying the final trip back to the room was DH + 3?

 

The time is important in that we need someway to either have the widow in the room at the time of the thud or not in the room at the time of the thud. The three amigos is just the simple of math of in less outs gives you a missing amigo or not due to Clete's sequence of events.

[Fury1995]

Another inconsistency with Josh's recollection about that night:

 

 

Remember Jaci from the Oprah interview?

 

Jaci stated that at (or about) 2:30 (casino closes at 2:30) on that night, she remembers her husband and George playing craps while and teaching Jennifer how to play. Jennifer then had the "emotional - I hope George and I will be as happy as you" (but no alchohol smell) conversation with Jaci and kisses her on the cheek that appearantly Jen NEVER mentions in any account of that night ..... By the way Josh states the Russians were there too.

 

Josh stated he was playing craps with George and he was being taught how to play while Jennifer played blackjack ... did he forget Jennifer was there?? Then George announces he's leaving to go get more cash from their cabin... and returns with more money..

 

 

***The account of the evening is told through Josh's lawyer who says that Josh, George and Jennifer and the Russian Boys made the ship’s casino their home base in a night of heavy drinking.

Greer:

This evening you can’t even imagine the amount of drinking. There was an incredible amount of alcohol.

Josh's attorney says the newlyweds gambled, but not always together.

Greer:

In and out of the casino—there Josh sees Jennifer at the blackjack table and George at the craps table. And in fact, that night, George taught Josh how to play craps for the most part.

Murphy:

Was George having some luck that night?

Greer:

No, and see that's interesting. There’s talk about big money and big winnings — that didn’t happen. George at one point in time went over to the table with Jennifer and she had been losing, not big, but losing—and he had to go back to the room and get some money to come back and give it to her.

Murphy:

So he doesn't stagger out of the casino that night with a wad of hundreds in his pocket?

Greer:

No, nothing like that.

With the night in full swing, Josh would make an emphatic point about what he thinks he sees next.

Jennifer and the man he callst he casino manager getting cozy.

At 2:30 in the morning, now July 5th, the casino is closed for the night and the honeymooners, Josh, and the three Russian boys head for the disco bar up on deck 13. Everyone’s tipsy or better, according to Josh. This, says Greer, is when it stops becoming a normal night.****

 

 

 

Ok, so is Jaci making this whole conversation up?? Or is Josh trying to shift focus to a crew member? Again, Jaci says she is talking to Jen at 2:30 (closing time) but Josh says Jen is coziing up to the casino guy at around the same time. So Jen is appearantly flirting with the casino dealer and telling Jaci how much she hopes Geroge and she a fairy tale marriage like hers??? Jaci? Where is your FBI investgation skills here..... unless the Josh's recollection is "off" again......

[Barky]

Another inconsistency with Josh's recollection about that night:

 

 

Remember Jaci from the Oprah interview?

 

Jaci stated that at (or about) 2:30 (casino closes at 2:30) on that night, she remembers her husband and George playing craps while and teaching Jennifer how to play. Jennifer then had the "emotional - I hope George and I will be as happy as you" (but no alchohol smell) conversation with Jaci and kisses her on the cheek that appearantly Jen NEVER mentions in any account of that night ..... By the way Josh states the Russians were there too.

 

Josh stated he was playing craps with George and he was being taught how to play while Jennifer played blackjack ... did he forget Jennifer was there?? Then George announces he's leaving to go get more cash from their cabin... and returns with more money..

 

 

 

***The account of the evening is told through Josh's lawyer who says that Josh, George and Jennifer and the Russian Boys made the ship’s casino their home base in a night of heavy drinking.

Greer:

This evening you can’t even imagine the amount of drinking. There was an incredible amount of alcohol.

 

Josh's attorney says the newlyweds gambled, but not always together.

Greer:

In and out of the casino—there Josh sees Jennifer at the blackjack table and George at the craps table. And in fact, that night, George taught Josh how to play craps for the most part.

 

Murphy:

Was George having some luck that night?

Greer:

No, and see that's interesting. There’s talk about big money and big winnings — that didn’t happen. George at one point in time went over to the table with Jennifer and she had been losing, not big, but losing—and he had to go back to the room and get some money to come back and give it to her.

Murphy:

So he doesn't stagger out of the casino that night with a wad of hundreds in his pocket?

Greer:

No, nothing like that.

 

With the night in full swing, Josh would make an emphatic point about what he thinks he sees next.

Jennifer and the man he callst he casino manager getting cozy.

At 2:30 in the morning, now July 5th, the casino is closed for the night and the honeymooners, Josh, and the three Russian boys head for the disco bar up on deck 13. Everyone’s tipsy or better, according to Josh. This, says Greer, is when it stops becoming a normal night.****

 

 

 

Ok, so is Jaci making this whole conversation up?? Or is Josh trying to shift focus to a crew member? Again, Jaci says she is talking to Jen at 2:30 (closing time) but Josh says Jen is coziing up to the casino guy at around the same time. So Jen is appearantly flirting with the casino dealer and telling Jaci how much she hopes Geroge and she a fairy tale marriage like hers??? Jaci? Where is your FBI investgation skills here..... unless the Josh's recollection is "off" again......

 

Jaci did say she hadn't looked at her watch and was assuming it was 2:30 as the casino was getting ready to close.

 

I'm sure Josh would like for it to be an employee.

[EBFURR]

Once we accept the concept of reported times being only a range, and the words reported as being loose, then we are back to having DH alone, or having someone with him (DW or one of the amigos).

 

Although his time ranges may be estimates, Clete will have the sequence correct. He saw three amigos leave before the big thud. So if ya knows how many amigos returned with DH to the cabin after the search for the DW we should know if there is the possibiltiy on one of the amigos to have remained in the room. The FBI should know..IMHO

 

Pirate, I get your point about times being a bit subjective. I also agree that probably Clete has the sequence correct. The noise complaint being at 4:05 is probably accurate since it comes from RCI security records. Therefore, you could shift Greer's events forward about 20 minutes, which means the first (noisy) visit comes at 4:00 AM, then a quiet period (the room is empty while they search), then the quiet visit (after the solarium trip) comes later (4:25 or after) and JHS is found at 4:30 and security come looking for GS shortly after. This puts a lot of the key events in a very short time window between about 4:25 and 4:40. It also could indicate that there may still be someone on the balcony when security comes looking for GS.

[Barefoot_Pirate]

I think they are all telling thier version of what happened. All of it probably has some truth...not black or white by any means.

 

The descriptions use loose terms and the time lines are estimates. IMHO

 

Oh, and as far as the amigos being booted off, it is my understanding that typically the capitan will give the family an option of either leaving or stay on board and having it turned over to the law to resolve (I am guessing the woman did not want to press charges...otherwise she would be sueing RCCL). The individuals would be the ones booted off, and the family will typcially want to stay with their little angel.

[Fury1995]

I think they are all telling thier version of what happened. All of it probably has some truth...not black or white by any means.

 

The descriptions use loose terms and the time lines are estimates. IMHO

 

Oh, and as far as the amigos being booted off, it is my understanding that typically the capitan will give the family an option of either leaving or stay on board and having it turned over to the law to resolve (I am guessing the woman did not want to press charges...otherwise she would be sueing RCCL). The individuals would be the ones booted off, and the family will typcially want to stay with their little angel.

 

According to the NYTimes article on Jan 7th, the Grand Jury is investigating the rape report as well:

 

A family friend speaking on behalf of the 18-year-old woman said the

cruise line had provided her with excellent care and had responded

swiftly to the charges. He asked that his name not be disclosed to

shield the woman's identity, but said that she was "angry and looking forward to her day in court."

 

Sounds like she plans on being in court for something, but not to sue RCCL? I suspect someone will be pressing charges for the alleged rape from this statement.

[Barefoot_Pirate]

Fury, that may explain a much earlier comment about there being a grand jury involved...it's the rape charge not the death of the DH. In all of this, I don't know whose laws will be appropriate given where the incident happened....that should be informative.

 

Furr, your recreation of the time line sure does put the Widow Smith on the short list.

 

With all that the FBI knows, they must have a good time line of events. Too many seapass records, logged security reports, camera records, room service logs, sober witnesses, etc. etc. So their issue must be was it murder or not....while we are still trying to figure out who could have been in the room.

 

Any times reported by a drunk should be suspect.