The reason Celebrity isn't enforcing the dress codes

[usha]

While thoroughly enjoying a wonderful back to back on Constellation, we noticed some (not a great many, thankfully) passengers that flatly disregarded Celebrity's evening dress codes. We saw one young man at dinner in the San Marco restaurant on formal night in parachute pants and nike t-shirt. We spoke to several staff members, asking why Celebrity wasn't enforcing the dress codes, and from the assistant maitre 'd to the waiter, assistant waiter the bar servers, the resounding response was that when a staff member attempts to enforce the dress codes, the offending passengers often write nasty things about them on the comment cards, not even related to the enforcement of the dress codes, and some staff have actually been fired as a result.

 

I sincerely hope those passengers sh*t their beds upon returning home.:cool:

[Karynanne]

I'm hoping that Celebrity reads the comments on this thread, and realizes that their "required" dress (yes, it's in the Daily) of the evening is not being enforced...based on negative feed-back from disgruntled passengers.

 

The dress-code situation has long been discussed on this board...but time and time again the same scenario has been played out.

 

We cruise this line because of the ambiance that the cruiseline provides. Enforcement of the guidelines should be done by Celebrity out of respect to it's patrons, and the staff should NOT be penalized for doing their expected job.

 

Karyn

[JNLROSE]

VERY well said Karyn! :D

[poetic license]

There is a solution for this entirely avoidable dilemna: Celebrity should stand behind it's policy and assign a person, a SALARIED person (like the Maitre 'D, or the Food Service Director) to handle dress code violations and complaints from passengers. It should never be handled by anyone whose entire livlihood is dependant upon tips and/or comment cards.

 

It can be done nicely, too: An offending pax could be discreetly pulled aside and the rules explained with options offered. Celebrity could maintain a rack of blazers in varying sizes as well as a few ties to loan to pax who are in violation. Once the word is out that the dress code is enforced, it's possible that very few people indeed will thumb their noses at it, since doing so would perhaps cause them embarrassment. (Never mind that they are choosing to be embarrassed by their disrespect and disregard for everyone else in the first place.)

 

Additionally, the person assigned to handle dress code complaints should maintain a log of who they had to speak with in order to match up those (false) complaintants with offenders. That way, when the comment cards come in, HQ will know exactly WHY the comments are negative.

 

No one should ever have their job on the line for enforcing something that is stated in all the company's literature.

[Leela]

My initial response when I read this was to think that if this is what people who are coming to cruise on Celebrity are starting to do to the staff, then it's time I find another cruise line with nicer passengers.

 

Of course, I'm not about to do that this year...I've got two cruises stacked up that I'm very much looking forward to...but after that I think I want to look into trying smaller, non-mass-market ships. I thought the Century-class ships were about the biggest I was happy on, and now that Celebrity is getting some mega-behemoth-ships, I'm not sure I like that either.

[lysolqn]

Usha hit the proverbial nail right on the head - no one at X wants to take on the role of fashion police, and who can blame them. Not only have staff and crew told us they're fearful of negative comments from disgruntled passengers, but they're also afraid of the verbal and, in some cases, even physical confrontations which have ensued as a result of stopping pax at the dining room door.

 

It's time for Celebrity to get off the fence it's been sitting on for way too long and make a business decision - either it makes an effort to deliver the traditional, premium cruise product it markets (including evening dress code), or it goes the way of the mainstream cruiselines that have, for the most part, eliminated required or suggested evening dress.

 

If the corporate bigwigs at X read these boards as we're often told they do, then they should know that most loyal X pax not only want the evening dress code to continue but they want it to be enforced.

[spearmint]

It's time for Celebrity to get off the fence it's been sitting on for way too long and make a business decision - either it makes an effort to deliver the traditional, premium cruise product it markets (including evening dress code), or it goes the way of the mainstream cruiselines that have, for the most part, eliminated required or suggested evening dress.

 

If the corporate bigwigs at X read these boards as we're often told they do, then they should know that most loyal X pax not only want the evening dress code to continue but they want it to be enforced.

 

--Well said lysoln. Perhaps it is also time that Captain's Club members and anyone else who can, drop an e-mail to Celebrity on this issue. I am going to do so, right now.

[USSFRef]

I just don't get the mentality of someone who signs up for a cruise on a line that is known for being more formal, gets an intinerary from the cruise line laying out the dress code, shows up on formal night in jeans and a t-shirt and decides to make an issue of it.

 

There are cruise lines that don't care (Carnival, etc.). Go there.

[RetiredFL]

I am new to these boards but perhaps everyone should review the "Dress Code" from the Celebrity web site before complaining.

 

You will note men are REQUESTED to wear a jacket and tie on informal nights and for formal nights men and women MAY PREFER more dressy attire. From my school years English classes both "requested" and "may" indicate an option to comply or not.

 

I don't seen how once can "demand" the cruise line enforce a dress code when clearly there is none except for requested and suggested guidelines.

 

From the website:

 

"A gentleman's choice for casual nights includes a sport shirt and slacks, while women will be comfortable in a pants suit, skirt and blouse, or casual dress.

 

On informal nights, men are requested to wear a jacket, shirt and tie, while women may want to wear a suit or dress.

 

For the formal nights, including the Captain's Welcome Aboard Cocktail Party, dinner on the second night, and the Captain's Farewell Dinner held the next-to-last night of the cruise; both men and women may prefer more dressy attire, such as an evening gown for women and a tuxedo or dress suit for men."

[superjerryw]

As I have pointed out here before in regard to enforcing the dress code, the bottom line is the bottom line. A passenger that is properly dressed and observes others that are not properly dressed will probably sail with Celebrity again since it's not something that will ruin their vacation. Conversely, a passenger that is denied entry to the dining room will probably not be a repeat passenger with the resulting loss in potential revenue. The name of the game is to fill all the cabins so unless someone exhibits some type of destructive behavior no one is going to reprimand them for anything they do.

 

Of course if I happen to be wearing my tux, and I happen to be leaving the dining room, and I happen to be carrying that special cake they gave me for my birthday and I happen to drop that cake in the lap of an improperly dressed person......:eek:

[bububr]

" From my school years English classes both "requested" and "may" indicate an option to comply or not. "

 

first 'requested' is different from 'may'.

 

a request is a formal and polite way to ASK TO COMPLY; not an option to comply. along with that request is the possibility that if you do not comply you may be turned away.

 

However, in the DAILY the term 'requested' turns to 'required'.

 

There are options...the main diningroom is supposed to be strict and adhere to the dress code, and for those who do not want to dress they set up an alternative diningroom which is just as nice and has the same service.

 

So your choices are dress correctly according to the code of the day and eat in the main diningroom, or dress more casually and eat in the alternative dining venue.

 

And even more important, aside from the general info in the website, the actual cruise documents spell everything out...of course those who don't know the definition of request used in the manner it is meant, most likely don't read the information sent to them.

 

 

Dave:eek:

[RetiredFL]

Thanks for the English lesson, I only got a B.

To my way of thinking requested is still not required.

 

By the way my cruise documents, received via e-mail from Celebrity made no mention of a dress code.

[superjerryw]

I just don't get the mentality of someone who signs up for a cruise on a line that is known for being more formal, gets an intinerary from the cruise line laying out the dress code, shows up on formal night in jeans and a t-shirt and decides to make an issue of it.

 

There are cruise lines that don't care (Carnival, etc.). Go there.

 

Someone may pick a more formal cruise line like Celebrity because there are itineraries available that cannot be found elsewhere. Celebrity has some cruises that are both longer and visit places other ships don't sail as opposed to the standard 7 day Caribbean cruise. We did an 11 day Med cruise last year on Galaxy. There was nothing comparable being offered by anyone else so I could easily understand it if there were passengers that were sailing based strictly on the itinerary.

[hajekfam]

While thoroughly enjoying a wonderful back to back on Constellation, we noticed some (not a great many, thankfully) passengers that flatly disregarded Celebrity's evening dress codes. We saw one young man at dinner in the San Marco restaurant on formal night in parachute pants and nike t-shirt. We spoke to several staff members, asking why Celebrity wasn't enforcing the dress codes, and from the assistant maitre 'd to the waiter, assistant waiter the bar servers, the resounding response was that when a staff member attempts to enforce the dress codes, the offending passengers often write nasty things about them on the comment cards, not even related to the enforcement of the dress codes, and some staff have actually been fired as a result.

Since this is what is happening, we should take it upon ourselves to write a good comment about the employee when we see them enforcing the dress code. That should help counteract the nasty things that the offenders write.

[Blazerboy]

Hey Boo-Boo,

 

I'd add that the "may" in the dress code description for ladies does imply choice, but perhaps not about whether or not to comply, but whether to wear a dress or dressy pantsuit.

 

Also, another way to look at the word "may" in the description for men: the "may" says that you may (can) wear a jacket an tie, while 'you may not (cannot) wear other things' is implied. As in "You may have a cookie" vs. "You may not go out for recess!" When your teacher said "You may not," I don't think they meant to offer you a choice!:rolleyes: See, I took English too!:D And can parse with the best on 'em!

 

And here's the text copied verbatim from the web today:

 

"On informal nights, ladies may wear an informal dress or pants and blouse, while gentlemen may wear a jacket and tie with slacks. Casual nights call for casual, comfortable wear, so women may opt for a pantsuit or sporty outfit while gentlemen may choose a sport shirt and slacks."

 

"Formal attire calls for an evening gown or cocktail dress for ladies and a tuxedo, dinner jacket or dark suit for gentlemen."

 

I'll be the first to admit that they word things differently in various places, but I did notice the "out" for the cruise line is that the dress for the day will be spelled out for the passengers in the daily paper:

 

"The daily program, delivered to your stateroom and available at the Guest Relations Desk, will be your guide to the appropriate attire each evening."

 

Guide, as in 'show you the way!':)

 

Ah, this debate will rage on!

 

Andrew

[Zaphod]

Since this is what is happening, we should take it upon ourselves to write a good comment about the employee when we see them enforcing the dress code. That should help counteract the nasty things that the offenders write.

 

That's the best idea I've seen yet on any of these dress-code threads.

[tangerinebunny]

Okay, I'm that bookish girl who made A's in English, majored in English and went on to teach on the university level.

 

And if X is saying, one may wear formal wear, that's what they're saying - one is 'allowed' to or may even choose to, wear formal wear. If they wanted to say, one must, then that's what they would say.

 

Am I happy with this? Doesn't seem to matter. They're saying what they're saying.

 

btw, I'll be the cute older bookish chick in the nice purple flapper style formal dress with the handsome black suit clad professor. Ask me to dance!

[Karynanne]

Just today I received an online Celebrity survey...hmmm how timely. There was a section that I responded to that asked what could be improved. I went into detail stating that the requested/required dress codes should be enforced, WITHOUT penalizing any staff members, if reported by a disgruntled passenger.

 

Yes, there are other small issues that can be improved upon, but this issue has been a long-standing thorn in Celebrity's side...and if loyal Celebrity patrons continue to expect certain standards, and are continously dissapointed, then this needs to be addressed by the cruiseline.

 

Karyn

[wolfganghowell]

I got called a social elitist for entering this fray a year or so ago.

 

The usage Celebrity uses "prefer" "may" "request" is a very Old School formal use of language that when taken in context is a polite way of saying "required." Example - I was invited to a debutante ball back in the 80s (don't remember why but what the heck). Now in Dallas these are quite the event. The very formal invitation said "Black Tie Requested". Well, hello - everyone KNEW you HAD to wear a tux and a ball gown. But for a social function the word "required" is frowned upon. Celebrity, in their effort to be classy and elegant, has used language that many people do not understand anymore. It doesn't make them ignorant and it doesn't make me an elitist for knowing the old school form of address (hey - it pays to read 19th century novels!) As Celebrity tries to distinguish itself from its corporate sister, Royal Caribbean, and other mass market lines, it would be wise to make the language less....er....elegant and simply use the dreaded "required".

 

The Dailies on board are more direct and use required but by then it may too late if passengers have not packed suits, tuxes or evening/cocktail dresses.

 

Finally - I can't wait to get back to the X ambiance - we have learned to appreciate certain things on our Rhapsody cruises. But last time I saw a distinct lowering of passenger manners. One idiot came into dinner 20 minutes late in shorts, tank top with a kerchief tied around his head. He stuck his napkin in his shirt and ate like a goat. I wanted to walk by him and bleet at him.

[BB5953]

Thanks for the English lesson, I only got a B.

To my way of thinking requested is still not required.

 

By the way my cruise documents, received via e-mail from Celebrity made no mention of a dress code.

 

 

RetiredFL - Do yourself a favor never ever come back to this thread. You are correct that in the travel documents sent to your home (which is what is considered your contract with the cruise line it says requested which in no way shape or form means required. However, in the dailys X does change the wording to required (after you have already packed). As long as you are not in jeans or shorts you will be allowed in (from what I have seen on my cruises). However, most people on formal night will be in a dark suit or cocktail/evening dress.

[bububr]

:D

 

"The usage Celebrity uses "prefer" "may" "request" is a very Old School formal use of language that when taken in context is a polite way of saying "required." Example - I was invited to a debutante ball back in the 80s (don't remember why but what the heck). Now in Dallas these are quite the event. The very formal invitation said "Black Tie Requested". Well, hello - everyone KNEW you HAD to wear a tux and a ball gown. But for a social function the word "required" is frowned upon. Celebrity, in their effort to be classy and elegant, has used language that many people do not understand anymore. It doesn't make them ignorant and it doesn't make me an elitist for knowing the old school form of address (hey - it pays to read 19th century novels!) As Celebrity tries to distinguish itself from its corporate sister, Royal Caribbean, and other mass market lines, it would be wise to make the language less....er....elegant and simply use the dreaded "required".

 

Its SOOOOO Nice to have someone understand the etiquette. And its true now-a-days...people just don't understand anymore because they just don't care. most are just to self absorbed and have their cell phones stuck in their ears. Cruise with us!!!!please!!!

 

Andrew....How'd you know my nick-name;) ?

 

Tangerine...The word 'may' refers to the choices given...i.e gown, pantsuit, or dressy outfit. For men, INFORMAL traditionally means a suit and tie, (as opposed to FORMAL which traditionally means a tux) so the word may goes back to you may wear a suit or a jacket and tie....those are your choices. NOT you may wear anything you want.

 

Not sure where you got your degree, but I would double check to make sure the school was accredited:D

 

karynanne...I just did the same thing...

 

hajekfam....great Idea!!! BTW I've got some really good friends down in Bolingbrook!

 

Superjerry...while I can agree with the business side of your thinking...my business side would be that I would rather discourage those who didn't comply with the hopes that those who do will be repeaters anyway and may spread the news and bring others onboard. The dollar is important, but with out integrity, we have nothing..and there's a lot of folks out there that can understand the definition, let alone spell it.

 

Dave:eek:

[Karynanne]

Dave, you said the magic word...INTEGRITY. Stand by it, and those with shared standards, will follow.

 

Karyn

[wolfganghowell]

LOL - thanks Dave. I'm sure my Southern Belle of a mother will be thrilled I absorbed something. Yes, when we had a CC meet and mingle in Dallas, I was greeted with shouts of WOLFIE - YOU SOCIAL ELITIST. Made for quite a few laughs since I'm pretty low key. I just believe in behaving appropriately and generally following the rules. And if we ever do cruise together, I'll be sure to reenact that Texas curtsy we're famous for. I figure since I'm in my 40s my knees can hold up for a few more years. Might need a few zodiacs first though.

[Blazerboy]

Andrew....How'd you know my nick-name;) ?

Because, and no offense intended, I'm smarter than your average bear!

 

;) right back atcha'

 

As for the rest:

 

Here's how Celebrity should phrase this section on-line, in catalogues, and in cruise documents- as a 'Q and A' section. See below:

 

Q. "What may I wear and be appropriately dressed?"

 

A. "You may wear...."

 

Some people want to dumb down everything, including the English language. In a few years, people will claim that they don't have to dress because the cruise line never text-messaged them on their BlackBerry with the message "Tx rqd." :rolleyes:

 

Apologies to Phil, I couldn't stay away.:D

 

Andrew

[BSeaBob]

Andrew (Who never met a dresscode thread he could pass up) ...you slay me.

 

Way back in this thread someone has the best idea I've seen/read yet. Do the blazer/tie thing at the door and it won't take long for all this to stop. Boards might be pretty boring though.

 

The real reason the cruise line doesn't enforce this is in fact really simple. THEY don't really mind what you wear. Just be on their ship..thank you very much.

Enforcement of this while at sea is just to painful for anyone who has tried to enforce any kind of code..... to imagine.