What would Sir Samuel think?

[Cunard Cruiser]

The news about how disrespectful Princess has been with the Commodore has me absolutely infuriated. The marketing is all about history and heritage, which is false advertising considering what they have done. Sir Samuel must be rolling over in his grave.

 

I think all of us past passengers should consider ourselves lucky, as the new passengers are not being introduced to the true Cunard that we know well and love. There is a very fine line of pride and arrogance and QE2 was built with pride and sorry to say QM2 was built with arrogance.

 

If Arison didn’t have to be in constant pi**ing match with Royal Caribbean CEO, he would not have built the QM2 so enormous, too enormous for successful crossing revenue. Sure she is booked, when there are steep discounts ($799 for April crossings and $1199 for summer crossings). In addition all the Cunard perks had to be cut out and become a lean Princess régime. Ratcliffe hired Ms. Marlow so he could hide behind her skirt from the entire backlash he was getting. It is a joke.

 

Don’t get me wrong QM2 is a wonderful ship; however she lacks the “true personality” of CUNARD’S QE2. She is very, very bland. I think this can be contributed to her being run from those who only know how to run an everyday cruise ship. Thank God that the powers that be had enough sense to leave QE2 in her last years or did they?

[guernseyguy]

The news about how disrespectful Princess has been with the Commodore has me absolutely infuriated. The marketing is all about history and heritage, which is false advertising considering what they have done. Sir Samuel must be rolling over in his grave.

 

Sir Samuel would have little time for rumours masquerading as 'facts'. So far all we have is rumours - do you have any facts to add?

 

I think all of us past passengers should consider ourselves lucky, as the new passengers are not being introduced to the true Cunard that we know well and love.

 

I assume you mean pre-1971 when the independent Cunard ceased to exist? For my money, I'd rather have a shipping company running Cunard than a property one or an engineering one. And late Cunard was far from a successfully run company - while they were building the QE2 the company was more or less in freefall

 

Sure she is booked, when there are steep discounts ($799 for April crossings and $1199 for summer crossings).

 

And you are COMPLAINING about low fares? Looks like an opportunity for a crossing to me!

 

QM2 is a wonderful ship; however she lacks the “true personality” of CUNARD’S QE2.

 

Give her time. The QE2's 'personality' when newly launched was one of 'mechanical problems'.....

 

Peter

[Navaleye]

If the QM2 struck an undersea object, then the captain is totally responsible at all times (apart from the Panama Canal). He is responsible for the safe navigation of the ship. The harbour pilot is there to offer advice and experience. That's it.

[2moose]

The news about how disrespectful Princess has been with the Commodore has me absolutely infuriated. The marketing is all about history and heritage, which is false advertising considering what they have done. Sir Samuel must be rolling over in his grave.

 

I think all of us past passengers should consider ourselves lucky, as the new passengers are not being introduced to the true Cunard that we know well and love. There is a very fine line of pride and arrogance and QE2 was built with pride and sorry to say QM2 was built with arrogance.

 

If Arison didn’t have to be in constant pi**ing match with Royal Caribbean CEO, he would not have built the QM2 so enormous, too enormous for successful crossing revenue. Sure she is booked, when there are steep discounts ($799 for April crossings and $1199 for summer crossings). In addition all the Cunard perks had to be cut out and become a lean Princess régime. Ratcliffe hired Ms. Marlow so he could hide behind her skirt from the entire backlash he was getting. It is a joke.

 

Don’t get me wrong QM2 is a wonderful ship; however she lacks the “true personality” of CUNARD’S QE2. She is very, very bland. I think this can be contributed to her being run from those who only know how to run an everyday cruise ship. Thank God that the powers that be had enough sense to leave QE2 in her last years or did they?

The Grande Dame versus the modern Behemoth!!!!they both have thier benefits however some of the behavior i have witnessed on the QM-2 and the home office of Cunard is TERRIBLE !!!! welcome to the 21st century

[Bramcruiser]

I can understand some of the lamenting that goes on with the disappearance of the old company and the passage of the customs that went with it and the era it belonged to. Unfortunately, we have to face reality that Cunard - the old Cunard - is gone. What remains is the name and a truly different market than the days gone by and nothing is going to bring her back. Really all that is left is the QE2 and its days are numbered. Soon it'll join history like the Carpathia, Acquitania, and Queen Mary.

 

Carnival/Princess/Whatever may not fully understand the Cunarders of the bygone era but I don't think it could be economically maintained the way it was prior to the "takeover". There were valiant attempts to keep the QE2 around for the last few decades but the finances of Cunard was a mess. It is therefore very reasonable to see a clash of the QE2 hold-outs and the new masses of the supership QM2 and the non-liner liner Victoria. The new Cunard will be a mass market line comparable to HAL and Princess but with the legacy of the name behind it. For better or worse.

 

Would Samuel Cunard rollover in his grave? Well, he was a businessman first and foremost. Something tells me no because at least his name still goes on and he probably would have done the same back in his days.

 

While I might be disappointed at not seeing what was Cunard at its peak I can at least say I'd be happy with a financially viable Cunard that will still be around for years.

[wripro]

I think the problem is that cunard continues to market itself as if it were still the same line it was in its heyday so people board with high expectations. "White Star Service" is a joke. It exists only in a few areas of the ship, the grill rooms in particular. Other than that the ambiance and service is equivalent to a mass market ship. If it were promoted as such and not as a luxury line passengers would not be disappointed.

[Paul NH]

Don’t get me wrong QM2 is a wonderful ship; however she lacks the “true personality” of CUNARD’S QE2. She is very, very bland.

I would hardly call the QM2 a bland ship. I think it is a spectacular liner! Granted, she has faux paneling (fire safety) and the Winter Garden, but "very, very bland"? Come on now.

 

Paul

[Cunard Cruiser]

I didn't mean the decor of the ship. It is furnished with understated elegance - thank God. What I meant is that something overall is missing. Can't place my finger on it. To, me it just hasn't have the heart of the QE2 and maybe I have favoritism as I have taken 40 QE2 voyages.

Yes Warwick is responsible for the ship, however forcing him to retire four months earlier than scheduled will not correct the damage or alter the costs of repair. The move by Princess shows no decorum. It will be interesting to see the US Coast Guard report.

Will I still travel QM2, yes of course? I am booked for two crossings this year. Will I ever travel any other line other than Cunard? No I would rather cruise in a rowboat. However, it is so sad to see what started out as a wonderful ship - Thanks to Stephen Payne - turned in another bland, "of the rack" Princess style service and atmosphere.

[MeLuvDaSea]

Granted, she has faux paneling (fire safety) and the Winter Garden, but "very, very bland"? Come on now.

Paul

 

Hello, Paul? What's wrong with the Winter Garden? I haven't been on the QM2 yet, but that was one of the first places I wanted to see firsthand.... Educate me, please.

[Paul NH]

Hello MeLuvDaSea,

 

It is not so much an education as an impression some of us on this board observed about that particular lounge. It is a plastic-like place. There are fake compact trees lining the aisle, which cut right through the middle of the room. No one ever congregated in this lounge as far as I saw, except for scheduled get-togethers by organized associations, or the dreaded art auctions. Most other times it was completely empty.

 

In contrast, the Queens Room, the Commodore Club, the Library, the Atlantic Room, the Chart Room, the Golden Lion, the Champagne Bar, Sir Samuels, the Atrium - and even the Kings Court - they all have their unique personalities and were nice places to hang out as evidenced by the passengers always using them.

 

Paul

[MeLuvDaSea]

Thanks, that makes sense.

[Paul NH]

I didn't mean the decor of the ship. It is furnished with understated elegance - thank God. What I meant is that something overall is missing. Can't place my finger on it. To, me it just hasn't have the heart of the QE2 and maybe I have favoritism as I have taken 40 QE2 voyages. ... Will I still travel QM2, yes of course? I am booked for two crossings this year. Will I ever travel any other line other than Cunard? No I would rather cruise in a rowboat. However, it is so sad to see what started out as a wonderful ship - Thanks to Stephen Payne - turned in another bland, "of the rack" Princess style service and atmosphere.

Sea-sea,

 

Although I never sailed on the QE2 ... at least not yet ... I can understand people's attachment to it from over the years. I hope the QM2 does not fall victim to bland service and atmosphere. I did not see much of that last summer on her (except for some nits). I read a lot of reviews over the years regarding the QE2, in her pre-Carnival/Princess days, and there were quite a number of bad ones about the service, the run-down condition of the ship, and the overall value for the price paid.

 

It is probably inevitable that the character of Cunard is going to change and it really would be a shame if it lost its character to the one-business-model-fits-all environment (have you ever gone into several different stores at a typical U.S. mall and been greeted over and over and over again with "Hi, how are you today?" by the sales personnel?) .

 

Taking the QM2 out of Manhattan is the largest, recent example of a serious misunderstanding of Cunard's heritage. Either we on the board do not have all the facts behind some of these decisions, or the company does not care about Cunard's heritage. In the end, it is a business out to make a profit.

 

Paul

[travel-to-go]

Hello MeLuvDaSea,

 

It is not so much an education as an impression some of us on this board observed about that particular lounge. It is a plastic-like place. There are fake compact trees lining the aisle, which cut right through the middle of the room. No one ever congregated in this lounge as far as I saw, except for scheduled get-togethers by organized associations, or the dreaded art auctions. Most other times it was completely empty.

 

In contrast, the Queens Room, the Commodore Club, the Library, the Atlantic Room, the Chart Room, the Golden Lion, the Champagne Bar, Sir Samuels, the Atrium - and even the Kings Court - they all have their unique personalities and were nice places to hang out as evidenced by the passengers always using them.

 

Paul

Luv, Everything Paul says here is right on the mark. I got the impression it had been left out in the sun too long. Bleached and blanched and bland. It had no life about it. It was sterile. It simply had no personality, no character. And that's also one of the biggest differences, someone asked earlier, between my impression of the QM, the QE2 and the QM2. Think of a neighborhood where all of the "ticky tacky Levittown" houses all look the same. Yeah. they have different colored shutters or maybe the porch on one has white wood treament while another has black wrought iron. and every other one, the pattern is reversed. But they all have plastic exteriors- At least what I call plastic. Vinyl Siding. Everybody loves it. It's easy care. They all have perfect square flat lawns. Easy to mow- or maybe you hire a service to spray it with deadly chemicals. No grubworms, no moles, no dandelions. the grass height is uniform. Everything is just so. Now look at my house. I live out in the woods. I have allowed great portions of my land to go back to the way it was before man disturbed it. I have planted wildlife-friendly plantings to restore habitat, and provide shelter and food. I live on a hill- I mean my entire "yard" is a hill. I am walk out to ground level top and bottom! I have three driveways, none of them paved! I get dandelions.I also have raccoons, possum, skunks, all manner of birds, inlcluding at least once, a pileated woodpecker. Hummingbirds (despite the wild cats living on and under my deck). deer, hawks, quail. fox. coyote, yes, even moles. field mice. wild and crazy squirrels and god only knows what else. ( Yeah, even the occasional pheasant, though not recently. They were seeded for huting, years ago) I have fiddlehead ferns in the wetlands that I cleaned up. then let go back natural. I have a compost pile I use to fill in when necesarry. I have Blackberries honeysuckle forsythia and roses. lilacs and dogwood. Most people would rather live in the plastic easy-to-care-for identical houses in the squared off neighborhood of perfectly straight and even streets. These poeple should go on Carnival, or maybe the adventurous ones, RCCL. People like me need to be on Cunard, Windjammer, or maybe Radisson. We're eclectic. I took a cruise on the Seabreeze under Premier cruises because it was an old teak decked ship- the rooms were different depending on where on the shiip you were. They weren't cookie cutter (like much of QM2 is, NOT like QM or QE2) There were deep rich woods, not sameness all over. QM2 is mass market. QE2 is eclectic and individualized, by my guess, having not been on her, but heard much about her.

 

Karie, who is rambling again. but knows what she likes

[Richard Schmidt]

If the QM2 struck an undersea object, then the captain is totally responsible at all times (apart from the Panama Canal). He is responsible for the safe navigation of the ship. The harbour pilot is there to offer advice and experience. That's it.

 

You are correct, of course. I just can't help thinking that the Warwick was undone partly because QM2 has those dreadful enormous hairdryers hanging beneath the hull instead of proper propellers on proper propeller shafts running through the hull of the ship and mounted on either side of a proper rudder and above the level of the keel. I'd want to forget those pods were there, if I were him.

[ladymacwilly]

It's amazing Queen Elizabeth II even had the guts to bless her isn't it? Amazing Rod Stewert even lowered himself enough to embark on her "plastic " (yet fire-proof), walls! No wonder Prince Williiam or Prince Henry dare not board the ship, (Or is that due to all the Yanks who have money yet no real class?)

 

"I sailed such and such and it was so much better...We sailed So and So and were treated like real royalty." (If that 's what means so much to you)

 

How about feeling a part of history compared to how much you feel that your "bucks" entitled you to somehow feeling "superior" to others?

 

Sorry, obviously imbibing too much. But really....

[mufi]

 

Sorry, obviously imbibing too much. But really....

 

Obviously.

 

David.

[MollyBrown]

It's amazing Queen Elizabeth II even had the guts to bless her isn't it? Amazing Rod Stewert even lowered himself enough to embark on her "plastic " (yet fire-proof), walls! No wonder Prince Williiam or Prince Henry dare not board the ship, (Or is that due to all the Yanks who have money yet no real class?)

 

"I sailed such and such and it was so much better...We sailed So and So and were treated like real royalty." (If that 's what means so much to you)

 

How about feeling a part of history compared to how much you feel that your "bucks" entitled you to somehow feeling "superior" to others?

 

Sorry, obviously imbibing too much. But really....

 

All I know is, on QE2 I found something wonderful that so many forces since QM2 seem to be out to eliminate. People keep talking about the inevitability of this and that. Nothing is inevitable except death and taxes. It is people who create trends and cause changes that occur. I don't understand this notion that just because time is moving forward we must adopt anything that is new as long as it is new, no matter how inferior its quality.

 

(You may have an an extra glass of wine, but at least you say what you think. I am quite tired of passive-aggressive behavior, and false "friends" who are covertly hostile, but I am on a tangent...)

[MollyBrown]

Sorry, obviously imbibing too much. But really....

 

Obviously.

 

David.

 

I'm surprised. My impression of you until recently was that you were a pleasant, gentlemanly chap.

[guernseyguy]

I'm surprised. My impression of you until recently was that you were a pleasant, gentlemanly chap.

 

And you no longer are? I fear a 'sense of humour' difference between drier Brits (one word post) and our transatlantic cousins.......(for which there are actually perfectly good linguistic reasons for 'irony' not being a valued form of humour - in a 'melting pot' where clarity of communication is prized, a form of humour that relies on secondary meanings is understandably not valued.....)

 

Peter

[ladymacwilly]

Gee, I'm sorry, I'm Scots-Irish so I'm practically expected to drink too much! ;)

 

Ladymacwilly

(Who will be spending the entire crossing in the Golden Lion Pub smoking like a fiend and slamming down Scotch and Irish Whiskey, now that she's learned there is nothing worth merit she'll miss on the rest of the ship) :rolleyes:

[guernseyguy]

Gee, I'm sorry, I'm Scots-Irish so I'm practically expected to drink too much! ;) Ladymacwilly (Who will be spending the entire crossing in the Golden Lion Pub smoking like a fiend and slamming down Scotch and Irish Whiskey, now that she's learned there is nothing worth merit she'll miss on the rest of the ship) :rolleyes:

 

Lady MacWilly,

 

Do please enjoy the Commodore Club too - nice high bar stools to balance precariously on!

 

By the way, how much of your Scots or Irish roots do you recall? For example, do you know what 'willy' is a euphemism for.......?

 

Peter, living in Guernsey, born in Scotland....08.30 flight from Aberdeen to Wick....'Tea, Coffee, or something from the bar.......'

[ladymacwilly]

Will do! :D

 

Why yes, I do know a bit about my heritage and my maiden name is McWilliams, originally from MacWilliam hailing from the Isle of Harris.

 

I do indeed know the euphanism but rather a funny story about that. My youngest son picked out our Scottie puppy from my sister who raises them. He asked what should he name the 'lil guy and I said maybe he should think of something with a Scottish flair. Being rather young, he came back with the name of Willy. I was somewhat surpised but encouraging and asked him if that was after William Wallace...or...(Why would he pick the name Willy?)

 

His answer:

"Well mom, you know how you said to think of something Scottish? The only thing I could think of was Willy from the Simpsons. You know, Groundskeeper Willy!" :D (Which is most likely spelled Willie as opposed to Willy, but what am I gonna do? Crush his spirit?)

 

The Scots I shared that story with whilst visiting Scotland loved that! They said Groundskeeper Willy was their favorite character on the Simpsons.

 

Hence...LadyMacWilly. A play on my maiden name of McWilliams and a tribute to my beloved Scottie Dog. I decided if it doesn't bother me then who cares?

 

Funny how one may say, "My little Willy is so full of spunk!" and how that translates across the pond. :rolleyes:

 

*Now returning you to your regular thread...*

[mufi]

I can recall one of our colonial cousins writing on these boards about "shagging across the carpet" You say tomato!!

 

dAVID.

[ladymacwilly]

Imagine the poor Scottish woman visiting the States who overheard in a department store a woman scolding her young daughter for misbehaving.

 

It took quite a while for the store manager to convince her that the mother's threat of, "If you act like that again, I'm going to spank your fanny!" :eek: meant something entirely different in the US. :rolleyes:

[travel-to-go]

Imagine the poor Scottish woman visiting the States who overheard in a department store a woman scolding her young daughter for misbehaving.

 

It took quite a while for the store manager to convince her that the mother's threat of, "If you act like that again, I'm going to spank your fanny!" :eek: meant something entirely different in the US. :rolleyes:

 

Well, between my Yorkshire firend who told me one morning after camping out the (skydiving) drop zone that she really got pi$$ed at the bar the night before (Why, was Sal, the bartender mean to you? I kept asking?) and my neighbor's friend telling us at a party how she went to England to meet her future mother-in-law. They went down to the gym and excercised, and she came home to tell future mum-in-law that they had really had a work-out, and boy was her fanny sore! <G>

 

Bodes well for the marriage, don't you think?

 

(Well, if she was staying in a hotel, I supposed he could go knock her up in the morning!)

 

Karie, Who speaks a DIFFERENT brand of English! <G>