Shuttle from Seattle to Vancouver Cruise Port

[CruiszBug]

19 hours ago, Beth and Bailey said:

When their agents give incorrect information ..  they need to take responsibility.  And so far, seems they are doing that.  

Wishing you much luck! We also have  a situation for an upcoming cruise. No one caught that we would be violating the PVSB act. So we are getting off Ovation in Vancouver, staying the night at Pan Pacific, then transferring to Seattle to board Celebrity Solstice. Neither Royal or Celebrity had a clue for helping us transfer. There was no QuickCoach shuttle from Canada Place to Pier 91 on our dates. Other than renting a car and driving we opted for the Cascades train. Fingers crossed!

[jeromep]

4 hours ago, CruiszBug said:

Other than renting a car and driving we opted for the Cascades train. Fingers crossed!

Amtrak Cascades is quite reliable.  It is a joint venture between Amtrak and WSDOT (Washington State Department of Transportation).  I think the deal is that WSDOT owns the rolling stock, and possibly the locomotives and Amtrak operates them.  My wife has traveled to and from Vancouver on the Cascades at least twice now and it has been a very good experience.  Crossing the border and going through "customs" is always smooth on the train, I think there is a preclearance process in the train station in Vancouver which streamlines entering the U.S.  The only thing which might cause a problem to the time table would be some track obstruction, which does happen every now and then.  But aside from that, the service is reliable.  Closer to your cruise you may want to download the WSDOT app to your phone.  They have a section regarding Cascades schedules and train status which may be useful.  I keep the app on my phone all the time for mountain pass updates, traffic and road condition cameras.

 

It is actually a very pretty train ride, so take in the sights.

[Beth and Bailey]

23 hours ago, CruiszBug said:

Wishing you much luck! We also have  a situation for an upcoming cruise. No one caught that we would be violating the PVSB act. So we are getting off Ovation in Vancouver, staying the night at Pan Pacific, then transferring to Seattle to board Celebrity Solstice. Neither Royal or Celebrity had a clue for helping us transfer. There was no QuickCoach shuttle from Canada Place to Pier 91 on our dates. Other than renting a car and driving we opted for the Cascades train. Fingers crossed!

I wonder how many people don't realize there are nuances when it comes to travel between countries. 

 

[GTJ]

On 2/10/2023 at 3:22 PM, CruiszBug said:

We also have  a situation for an upcoming cruise. No one caught that we would be violating the PVSB act. So we are getting off Ovation in Vancouver, staying the night at Pan Pacific, then transferring to Seattle to board Celebrity Solstice. Neither Royal or Celebrity had a clue for helping us transfer. There was no QuickCoach shuttle from Canada Place to Pier 91 on our dates. Other than renting a car and driving we opted for the Cascades train.

Wow, you have several things going on here!

 

The initial issue, of attempting to book passage on a single foreign flag vessel from Honolulu to Seattle, should have been caught by any professional travel or reservation agent. Such an itinerary is not even a close call . . . clearly an unlawful cruise. Alas, there are not enough travel and reservations agents competent beyond extolling the virtues of travel and pushing computer buttons in response. Ideally, such persons would have taken at least one course in travel law. On the good side, even if you had accomplished the sailing, you, as the passenger, would not have done anything unlawful . . . the burden of compliance is on the carrier (in this case, Royal Caribbean International), the fine would be assessed against the carrier, and it would be difficult for the carrier to try to pass responsibility for the fine off to you if it had accepted the booking.

 

What also piqued my interest was the decision to transfer from Vancouver to Seattle to board a different vessel to Alaska. The vessel Radiance of the Seas will depart Vancouver simultaneously with the Ovation of the Sea, on May 11, 2023, on an 8-night cruise to Alaska. A different choice of ports of call, and returning to Vancouver instead of continuing onward to Seattle.

 

I also noticed the truth of the specific statement that there is no Quick Coach Lines service from Canada Place, in Vancouver, to Pier 91, in Seattle, on the desired travel date, May 11, 2023. Indeed, Quick Coach Lines schedules no trips at all, on any date, from Canada Place to Pier 91. The carrier makes regular trips from Canada Place to downtown Seattle, and additional trips from Waterfront Station (the former Canadian Pacific Railway station), immediately adjacent to Canada Place but not at Canada Place directly, to downtown Seattle . . . with one of those trips operating directly to Pier 91. If you were able to disembark from the Ovation of the Seas early enough, then you could board Quick Coach Lines service direct to Pier 91 from the adjacent Waterfront Station at 6:45 a.m. However, that is probably too early . . . and besides, you will be needing to spend the night in Seattle since the Celebrity Solstice will not depart until the next day. But you could board Quick Coach Lines at Canada Place directly at 10:45 a.m., and it will go direct to downtown Seattle, arriving at the convention center at 3:45 p.m., leaving you with a short trip to your hotel for the night. While the Amtrak train will also work, you will have to travel from Canada Place to the Pacific Central Station, and the train itself it doesn't leave Vancouver until 5:45 p.m., arriving late in Seattle at 10:10 p.m. A good choice if one really likes train travel, but the bus service from Canada Place operated by Quick Coach Lines would be more convenient.

[GTJ]

8 hours ago, Beth and Bailey said:

I wonder how many people don't realize there are nuances when it comes to travel between countries.

While that is true for some things, that is not the issue here. The problem with the original planned here is that it involved within the same country. If the plan was to travel from the United States to Canada (or vice versa) then no problem. It is a problem only because the plan was to travel from the United States to the United States, on a foreign flag vessel. I would think it to be obvious the people who thought about the issue that you can't use a foreign carrier for transportation within the United States. Would anyone seriously consider trying to fly on Japan Airlines within the United States? I suspect, however, that most people don't actually think about the issue. Perhaps more critically, most people probably mistakenly believe that the cruise lines are American-flagged. Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. is incorporated in Liberia, and its vessels are registered in the Bahamas. Who know this? It is not highlighted on the company website. If people mistakenly believe that Royal Caribbean utilizes American vessels, then they would have no reason to question whether they can use the carrier for the provision of domestic transportation.

[CruiszBug]

Although we knew about the PVSA, what we did not know was that a B2B cruise on the same ship is considered a single voyage and would result in a violation of the law. That nuance escaped us. (And Royal. And our TA.) Our original cruise on Ovation was from HNL to Vancouver. Then from Vancouver to Seattle. We had return flights in place at a decent time and price on American from SEA-TAC and were trying to keep as much of our original plans in place as possible.

 

Added to the mix that Royal was giving me a very short timeline to make a choice or risk both cruises being cancelled. Radiance was never mentioned to me. They told me I could add on the Australia to HNL leg or cancel one segment to avoid the violation. However, flying to Australia is way too far and too much extra time and expense for us on such short notice.

 

The reason we really wanted to use Amtrak Cascades train, is that it works best for transferring our special needs daughter and luggage. Originally there was only the evening train which arrives in SEA at 10 PM. When I saw the 6:30 AM train had been added, I booked it.  We are familiar with them. They do not limit our luggage. Plus we do not have to get off with our bags when crossing the border. If we weren't traveling with our daughter in a non-collapsible wheelchair, our choices would have probably been different.

 

Thank you to everyone who had input on this! It was helpful in our decision-making. Although not easy travelling with her, it is so worth it! Seeing her smile at the different places she has gone erases any difficulties along the way.

Edited February 12, 2023 by CruiszBug

[GTJ]

1 hour ago, CruiszBug said:

Although we knew about the PVSA, what we did not know was that a B2B cruise on the same ship is considered a single voyage and would result in a violation of the law. That nuance escaped us. (And Royal. And our TA.)

Both the travel agent and the reservation agent should have known better. It is a well-established point of travel law (it is similar to the step transaction doctrine that is applied in tax law . . . you have to consider transactions as a whole and not break them up into separate pieces). That said, maybe I am expecting too much. (A few years ago I remember reviewing reviewing the published and printed brochure from MSC Cruises, which included a Caribbean repositioning cruise from Boston to Miami without stopping in a distant foreign port. I sent a short e-mail message to the cruise line about their "illegal" cruise. The cruise line quickly revised the itinerary so as to include a visit a distant foreign port compliant with the PVSA, but having to omit another port and disrupting the shore excursions planning by many of the passengers. I saved the cruise line perhaps $2 million in PVSA fines. How could their marketing people have published that cruise itinerary?!)

 

2 hours ago, CruiszBug said:

Added to the mix that Royal was giving me a very short timeline to make a choice or risk both cruises being cancelled. Radiance was never mentioned to me.

For Royal Caribbean to have first messed up on the law, and then not to mention the Radiance of the Seas itinerary that would have been the least disruptive (and for which there is presently availability), leaves me bewildered at the apparent incompetence of the cruise line's sales people.

 

2 hours ago, CruiszBug said:

The reason we really wanted to use Amtrak Cascades train, is that it works best for transferring our special needs daughter and luggage. Originally there was only the evening train which arrives in SEA at 10 PM. When I saw the 6:30 AM train had been added, I booked it. * * * They do not limit our luggage. Plus we do not have to get off with our bags when crossing the border.

It sounds as though you're planning to spend the night in Vancouver, and travel to Seattle on the day of the vessel departure. Almost certainly you would not be able to board the morning train on the day the first vessel arrives in Vancouver. (It is scheduled to arrive at Canada Place at 6:00 a.m., and you'll need to clear Canadian immigration and customs before continuing onward. It is about ten minutes by taxi to the Pacific Central station, and once there you will need to clear U.S. immigration and customs. And with the train departing at 6:35 a.m., it seems unlikely to be able to clear immigration and customs twice, plus go by taxi, within the time available. Amtrak advises arriving at Pacific Central station one hour early to clear immigration and customs, though Amtrak tends to be excessive with its advice.) The train is scheduled to arrive at King Street Station at 11:00 a.m., and with a 15-minute taxi ride to Pier 91, you should be able to arrive prior to the the 2:30 p.m. check-in deadline, with three hours to space, assuming that there are no delays.

 

Not having to unload and re-load baggage for customs is a good reason to by railroad, which provides pre-clearance in Vancouver before boarding, especially if one has much baggage. Amtrak is fairly generous with baggage allowance (though it is not unlimited), more so than Quick Coach Lines.

[Caribensun]

The cruise lines offer bus transfers from SeaTac to Canada Place (ships), very reasonable and they will wait for the bus.  The bus gets expedited through.  You take everything with you (all your luggage) through customs, was easier than the airport.  Cheaper to stay around SeaTac too.

[CruiszBug]

1 hour ago, Caribensun said:

The cruise lines offer bus transfers from SeaTac to Canada Place (ships), very reasonable and they will wait for the bus.  The bus gets expedited through.  You take everything with you (all your luggage) through customs, was easier than the airport.  Cheaper to stay around SeaTac too.

Yes, but we are arriving in Vancouver via Ovation of the Seas from Hawaii and our Celebrity Solstice Alaska cruise leaves from Seattle...

1 hour ago, GTJ said:

For Royal Caribbean to have first messed up on the law, and then not to mention the Radiance of the Seas itinerary that would have been the least disruptive (and for which there is presently availability), leaves me bewildered at the apparent incompetence of the cruise line's sales people.

 

It sounds as though you're planning to spend the night in Vancouver, and travel to Seattle on the day of the vessel departure. Almost certainly you would not be able to board the morning train on the day the first vessel arrives in Vancouver. (It is scheduled to arrive at Canada Place at 6:00 a.m., and you'll need to clear Canadian immigration and customs before continuing onward. It is about ten minutes by taxi to the Pacific Central station, and once there you will need to clear U.S. immigration and customs. And with the train departing at 6:35 a.m., it seems unlikely to be able to clear immigration and customs twice, plus go by taxi, within the time available. Amtrak advises arriving at Pacific Central station one hour early to clear immigration and customs, though Amtrak tends to be excessive with its advice.) The train is scheduled to arrive at King Street Station at 11:00 a.m., and with a 15-minute taxi ride to Pier 91, you should be able to arrive prior to the the 2:30 p.m. check-in deadline, with three hours to space, assuming that there are no delays.

 

Not having to unload and re-load baggage for customs is a good reason to by railroad, which provides pre-clearance in Vancouver before boarding, especially if one has much baggage. Amtrak is fairly generous with baggage allowance (though it is not unlimited), more so than Quick Coach Lines.

Yes, it confused us also? This voyage was booked while the PVSA was relaxed for Alaska cruising. Someone should have noticed it was reinstated back in April, I believe? 

 

I might have considered Radiance since it was the exact same cruise length. But returning home from Vancouver would require a change in flights, since we could not have made our flight time in SEA-TAC. Plus Seattle has the added benefit of Port Valet, which is helpful to us.

 

Yes, we are staying at the Pan Pacific when we disembark Ovation. I was going to rent an SUV or a minivan to drive to Seattle, but it became cumbersome and fraught with potential delays. Plus the expense for a one-way transfer was high. 

 

When searching Amtrak Cascades there was only the 5:45 PM train that was doable on the day of disembarkation. But would have been hard on us and our daughter. (Arriving at 10:10 PM and then getting to our hotel.) When the 6:35 AM train showed up in the schedule for the next day when we embark Solstice I jumped on it. (We plan to take the Expo Line on the Sky Train to the Amtrak Station.) The last time we rode the Cascades train was the inaugural Alaska 11-Night Ovation Glacier cruise. We rode it north with 31 bags. They put us in our own car with a nice British woman. 

 

Thank you again for your insight and knowledge. It is appreciated!

Edited February 12, 2023 by CruiszBug

[martincath]

18 hours ago, CruiszBug said:

When the 6:35 AM train showed up in the schedule for the next day when we embark Solstice I jumped on it. (We plan to take the Expo Line on the Sky Train to the Amtrak Station.)

I strongly recommend against SkyTrain for your group, given the vast array of bags you're traveling with. There is no luggage storage space on Expo Line (only the Canada Line, which uses a different trainset entirely, is designed for bags) and it's against the rules to use seats for bags, block aisle, take up wheelchair or bike space - except on your lap or a couple of square feet under your legs there is literally nowhere to put a bag!

 

You would be traveling early enough SkyTrains should have plenty room and the automated trains mean there's a very slim chance of any staff being around to stop you schlepping that many bags on - but given that there's no time saving and only a few $ saving to be made by taking SkyTrain over a cab on this short route so early in the morning, instead I'd ask the bell staff at the PP to ensure you have a couple of van taxis ready for you by 5:15am (VAC is a 'train side' bag check, so the usual Amtrak 45min hard deadline doesn't apply - so you can't get to the train until after CBP Preclearance - the requirement for Preclearance means they ask all passengers to arrive an hour early so you're stuck with the same timing in effect... and if you want maximum chance of waterside seats, aim for 75-90mins early so a cab no later than 5am!)

 

Each cab from the PP to Pacific Central will run barely over $10 at that time of day, so even with a tip it'll be ~$25 for two of them and you'll have your bags moved door to door... otherwise you need to know where the elevator access points to the Expo platform are (the obvious one just along from the PPs front door is stairs/escalator only) given you mentioned before you had someone who used a wheelchair in your group.

 

All-in-all, you might save as little as $5 total on SkyTrain vs. two cabs for that trip (IIRC you had a decent size group, 5 or 6 people?) - given the total lack of traffic and relatively major convenience of avoiding a two block walk on each end with that many bags, that's pennies very well spent IMO!!!

 

Edit - just another note about the train. For a 'same day as cruise' it's about as safe as it gets - the trainset and all crew overnight in Vancouver, there are no connecting inbound Amtrak services it might wait for, so it has historically left on-time almost every time - only really unusual stuff going wrong prevents it beginning the journey on time! Now that the timetable is available and we know it is unchanged from TheBeforeTimes so all the circumstances remain the same, i.e. it should stay a very consistent 'on time' service until it hits the first river bridge - there's always a random factor with river traffic, which is mostly why the schedule has been padded more than it was when I first rode this route 10+ years ago even though track improvements mean the train averages a slightly higher speed when moving. Odds are pretty decent that you'll actually arrive a little early in Seattle on the AM train!

Edited February 13, 2023 by martincath

[CruiszBug]

@martincath Thank you!  I did not know that about the changes to the Expo line... All 4 of us rode it in May 2019 to the Waterfront station after getting off the Amtrak Cascades train. We rolled our luggage dolly and the wheelchair right on just like Canada line. Did not block or obstruct anyone. The only reason I was thinking of the SkyTrain is because it is familiar.

 

Are the taxis accessible? Our daughter's wheelchair does not collapse...

 

Appreciate the timeline info, as well! We'll do our best to make it an early arrival. We were spoiled that last time. They gave us our own car. We were directed to go in and go left. Then the other passengers were told to go right or go up the stairs. So that was cool! We only had one other lady with a cane with us. So maybe that was their accessible car?

Edited February 13, 2023 by CruiszBug

[martincath]

54 minutes ago, CruiszBug said:

@martincath Thank you!  I did not know that about the changes to the Expo line...

 

Are the taxis accessible? Our daughter's wheelchair does not collapse...

 

Then the other passengers were told to go right or go up the stairs. So that was cool! We only had one other lady with a cane with us. So maybe that was their accessible car?

All van taxis are accessible - by law they make up about 17% of all the taxi fleets, and if you notify the company that you have a disabled person they must send you one of those. The missing middle row of seats means tons of luggage room if you don't have a chair locked down there, so that's why I'd suggest asking for two vans - wheelchair in one, luggage in the other, you may even be able to roll the dolly up the wheelchair ramp depending on width. I think you mentioned before that much of that luggage is stuff for your daughter, so even asking for 2 accessible taxis seems entirely legit to me.

 

Sounds like you had one of the rare Cascade services with the regular Amtrak double decker coaches before - they only run during annual maintenance, normal rolling stock here is European style single decker carriages (with comfier seats).

 

As to SkyTrain-with-lots-of-stuff - the rules haven't changed, you just got away with it! Which is usually very likely as long as you avoid rush hour travel, but I always steer folks away from taking the chance just in case they're unlucky. The fines go up now and again with inflation, last I recall it's something like $183pp, which would be a terrible way to start or end a vacation! Usually just stop you boarding/ask you to leave first and if you do, no fine is levied - and the rules are rarely enforced except in rush hour and also not exactly well advertised (signs do get posted about bikes being specifically banned onboard in peak rush for example, and SkyTrain staff are generally much more visible on platforms around then, but otherwise it's all rolled into the generic little signs all over the stations and at least one per vehicle which Plain English down to 'by being here you agree to abide by Translinks rules' and the actual rules are online and veeeerrrrryyyyy lengthy.

 

The rules of also common across all transit vehicle types, so they do have be fairly broad, and are worded such that basically any large piece of luggage is a violation on any vehicle except on the Canada Line where's there room under all the seats for a big bag - this ensure that staff have a lot of discretion to boot people but it's only remotely common on the small Community Shuttle buses where even a single big backpack or shopping trolley makes the aisle totally impassable... my local shuttle goes past Costco where folks often come out with pretty hefty bags, so even a little old lady with a shopping trolley gets booted if a wheelchair user needs on the bus - most drivers use discretion and let trolleys get put on the wheelchair lift if nobody needs it, but still the most common pattern is 'take transit to Costco, then call a cab or Uber to go home again' because getting told you can't board with your loo roll package the size of a house only has to happen once for you to stop relying on the bus as an option!

[CruiszBug]

3 minutes ago, martincath said:

All van taxis are accessible - by law they make up about 17% of all the taxi fleets, and if you notify the company that you have a disabled person they must send you one of those. The missing middle row of seats means tons of luggage room if you don't have a chair locked down there, so that's why I'd suggest asking for two vans - wheelchair in one, luggage in the other, you may even be able to roll the dolly up the wheelchair ramp depending on width. I think you mentioned before that much of that luggage is stuff for your daughter, so even asking for 2 accessible taxis seems entirely legit to me.

 

 

That is awesome! Definitely arranging accessible taxi!