Technical Fire Discussion

[fireofficer5]

I noticed that after the Esctasy burned carnival changed the time of muster drill and during the cruise you actually saw crew fire training with charged hoselines. Also do the cabins have full flow heads or the residental types that are only to prevent flashover. Last but not least, there is a shipboard firetraining facility at Port Everglades behind the Port firestation. This is used by the cruiseline personel.The day I was there doing firewatch Princess was doing training.

[dougnewmanatsea]

First, thanks to Host Anne for pointing out this fascinating thread. I just read the whole thing - took me over an hour but it was worth it ;) !

 

I am no fire safety expert but I have a few things to add.

 

First, there has been speculation on the material of the balconies. The superstructure of the GRAND-class ships above the main deck is aluminum. Aluminum has been used in many ships' superstructures since the 1940s and in virtually all ships built in the late 1960s or later. One very notable exception is QUEEN MARY 2 (which is of course a Princess ship in all but name now). I assume that the balconies themselves are aluminum - certainly the superstructure they are attached to is - though someone, somewhere on this thread posted a link to a company which manufactures composite balcony units which are a new concept to me. So if not aluminum, I guess these balconies could have been composite. At any rate they are not steel.

 

Second, on the sprinkler issue - some have questioned about what type of sprinkler is used. STAR PRINCESS does not have conventional sprinklers but rather a water mist system, the brand name of which is HI-FOG. Over the past five years or so, HI-FOG has become commonplace for the majority new ships, as well as for retrofitting older ships without sprinklers. (Sprinklers became mandatory under SOLAS in October 2005... I will not go into the various SOLAS fire regulations right now; maybe later.) Interestingly, I believe GRAND PRINCESS, back in 1998, was the first ship to have a full HI-FOG system.

 

The system's makers claim that the system is more effective than traditional sprinkler systems as well as requiring much less water. They have issued a statement[/i] about the incident:

 

Statement by Marioff Group, 24th March 2006

Fire onboard M/S Star Princess

 

 

On Thursday 23 March 2006 around 08:10 GMT a fire broke out on the cruise ship M/S Star Princess. Star Princess belongs to Princess Cruises, which is owned by Miami-based Carnival Corporation. According to a statement by Princess Cruises, the vessel is presently safe and fully operational and continues to provide passengers with full services.

 

 

The vessel is equipped with an approved HI-FOG water mist fire protection system. Based on the limited information presently available to Marioff, it appears that the HI-FOG system has performed as intended. The fire seems to have started on a cabin balcony, an area not required by SOLAS to be protected by a fixed fire protection system. The fire has spread along the outside balcony structure and has not spread into the interior of the vessel.

 

 

Marioff Group is naturally shocked by this incident and very sad because of the fatality of one passenger. As the safety of passengers and protection of property are of paramount importance, Marioff Group will continue to support the enhancement of fire safety.

 

 

Marioff want to emphasize that this statement is based on public and unofficial information, not on confirmed information from the ship owner. More information will be provided, as it becomes available.

I hope this information is helpful... And thanks to all the experts out there who have contributed fascinating information and an analysis about this tragedy. As I said, I do not frequent the Princess boards (I host Cunard and HAL) but obviously you have some very knowledgeable people on here!

[Cruise Cat]

Thanks Doug. I don't usually re-quote myself, but the first three links below are on the SOLAS regs and changes and the last link is about the Hi-Fog type systems.

 

Chuck

 

 

For those of you that were discussing increased standards of Fire Protection on Cruise Ships, here are some interesting articles/links from the International Maritime Organization:

 

Larger ships, new safety challenges

 

Sub-Committee on Fire Protection (FP), 50th session: 9-13 January 2006

 

Other/Previous FP Sub-Committee Minutes

 

Here is a link to some of the newer high pressure water mist systems such as was installed on the new Queen Mary 2 (refer to page 3). It is a slow loading 1 meg pdf and also remember it is a "sales brochure". (In other words, I would see what someone like CW says about the claims they make before believing them at face value)

 

http://www.cfaa.ca/journal-2004-summer-water.pdf

[mii]

Hello all ~ I attempted to post this link to more photos earlier but the board bombed out on me (sorry). Here's some additional shots I haven't seen before from a South Florida tv station.

 

http://www.nbc6.net/slideshow/news/8208494/detail.html?qs=;s=6;p=news;dm=ss;w=400

 

Going back to catch up on this thread from where I left off this AM.

 

Thank you very much for the interesting pics on the fire damage. I have not seen them before. Again thanks.

 

Marilyn

[spongerob]

If you look carefully at some of the close-up photos, you can see that the blue chairs in the cabins show some scorching, but have not burnt. It appears that the fire suppression equipment inside the cabins did its job and made it possible for people to evacuate.

 

But what a mess! I really don't think the ship will be ready to sail until the scheduled transatlantic crossing at the earliest unless some kind of miracle can be pulled off.

[zackiedawg]

More analysis:

 

If the rumors of the fire starting on the balcony of Baja 310 or Caribe 310 are true (and it is possible), then this would make perfect sense for the burn pattern. Baja 310, on Deck 11, is located just above the halfway point of the third full lifeboat from the bow, roughly two rooms under the Lido deck overhang, and two decks down from the Lido. This is at the very front of the burned section, and all burn is aft of that location, making the ship’s forward motion the primary influence on the direction of the fire’s spread. The fire does drop down to Caribe deck fairly extensively, which is feasible given the tiered deck layout and smaller balcony sizes. And the fire does extend all the way to the Lido overhang, where further upward growth appears to have been stemmed by the overhanging deck. Some of the Plexiglas panels on Lido show melt patterns, and some of the Lido overhang’s floor was buckled and scorched…but the fire did not broach the overhang and extend to the top of the ship.

 

The balconies at the front of the burn section are melted away, then a section of balconies is not fully melted away, then farther aft another very intense section is melted away, including the only debris fall that seems to have reached down to Dolphin deck. Near this section, there is also significant smoke residue and scorching of Lido deck directly above this spot. Rather than conclude that the fire started midship and extended forward and aft, I now theorize that the fire started forward and burned back only. If the ship was in motion and the fire began in the 300-320 sections, it would be propelled aft by the wind of the ship’s motion. After the alarms were sounded, and firefighting efforts began, there would likely be some delay before reports were made to the bridge that the fire was not containable to the localized area, prompting a full ship alarm, and the process of stopping the ship’s motion and angling away from prevailing winds…a process that does take several minutes on a vessel of that size. During this time, the fire likely extended to the midship area. Then the ship stopped, and wind was no longer pushing the fire…the midship section was fully involved and the smoke began rising straight up (note the smoke pattern on Lido deck forward is at a 45 degree angle, indicating ship movement, whereas the middle section of smoke pattern on lido is predominantly straight up). This would also prompt the fire to burn hotter and longer in one spot, without moving on, and therefore would explain the significant melting of aluminum balconies, intrusion of cabin doors, and significant debris fall extending down to Dolphin deck.

 

Burn pattern beyond the midship seems to indicate that the fire had spread farther aft on the Aloha and Baja decks. I would postulate that this might be because of the funneling effect of the fire under the Lido overhang…it was forced aft more quickly as it could no longer extend up. The fire would hit the Lido overhang, and be forced in three directions – left, right, and out, looking for a way up. The fire forced left had nothing to burn, as the fire had already burned from this direction. The fire forced out licked over the Lido overhang, but didn’t find enough combustible material to spread. The fire forced to the right (aft) was the only one able to find fuel. With the ship’s forward motion stopped, the fire was not being directed aft as strongly, and the firefighting efforts appear to have been able to stop the fire.

 

Looking at the close-ups of the rooms in the midship burn area, many of the glass doors are still in place, and those which are broken or warped still show fabrics and materials inside the cabins which retain their color and show only mild scorching (as Spongerob mentioned). That would seem to support the idea that the fire was predominantly on the balcony areas, and likely only intruded into a few cabins where the balcony doors gave way to the heat. If the fire started inside a cabin…even assuming there was a failure of the alarm or sprinkler systems, it would have likely extended from cabin to cabin internally, melting away the floors between cabins and burning through cabin walls. This does not appear to have happened – even eyewitness reports from the worst-affected cabins (those totally burned out with loss of all personal possessions) do not mention seeing through several cabins with missing walls or missing roofs to cabins above. Those rooms that did burn appear to have had fire forced into them from very intense fire on the balconies, and once breaching into the rooms, they seemed to have quickly burned low-resistance items (bedding, clothing, pillows, carpeting, paneling, plastics) but extinguished before burning long enough or hot enough to melt down aluminum structure. This would seem to indicate the sprinkler systems successfully prevented the spread of the fire within the ship.

 

It would appear the balconies were indeed made from a separate material than the ship sides to which they were attached. The dolphin deck cabin roofs and the outer wall where the balcony lights are mounted appear to have suffered no warping or melting…nor the dividing walls between cabins, or ship sides where balconies were attached. Balcony mounting points appear to still be intact. So while balconies made of aluminum were melted away, it appears that the ship sides, cabin outer walls, and Lido overhang were made of steel. Though the Lido floor buckled in the overhanging section, it should have melted away entirely if made from aluminum, given the heat of the fire under it, and the length of time it was exposed to the heat. Steel on the other hand would have a much higher resistance, and might only begin to suffer mild warping or buckling at the temperature aluminum burns at.

 

The recent close-up pictures of burned cabins show crewmembers inside those cabins. The balconies are melted away and these cabins are in some of the most intense burn areas, yet the furniture inside still retains some fabric and color, and the cabins are still structurally sound. It appears that crew is cleaning up in many of these cabins, which likely suffered only mild scorching near broken balcony doors, but significant water damage from the firefighting efforts.

 

That’s the latest I’m seeing in the pictures out there! All just theorizing and deducing from visual research…comparing pictures of the burn to ship diagrams and deck layouts. Looking forward to more official information, or hearing other people’s theories or observations!

[Katelab]

Smoke alarms will not work on balconies considering winds and cruising speeds.

 

The officers have a good view of the balconies from either end of the bridge and based on the star's fire I would imagine others are keeping a close eye their balconies.

 

But I wonder if they should consider adding cameras on the side of the bridge. This would provide 24 hour visual watch while driving the ship and a second set of viewing could be done by security office if they wanted too.

 

Now that fires on the balconies have more attention than they used too, this seems like a simple yet effevtive way of monitoring future problems on ships.

[TinAngel]

Lloyd Werft Bremerhaven GmbH

 

http://www.lloydwerft.com/

 

Nifty screensaver and such besides some data on exactly what this firm does.

Many recall the NCL Pride of America was damaged at this German Shipyard in January 2004. Suspect they will have photos eventually of the repairs as they do for current projects. The URL is for the English language site.

 

Perhaps one can special order a "theme" cabin? :D Resident firefighters and sailors could get a high pressure hose in their suites. I did note this company is coming out" of insolvency. But they do have a humongus drydock.

 

Auf Wiedersehen un Viel Glück! (Goodbye and Good Luck)

 

Doc

[DonLou]

I made this sketch awhile ago (for reasons unrelated to this fire) to get an idea of how the balconies were arranged.

It is interesting to note that the Aloha and Baja balconies seem to be add-on "hanging in the air" units to the superstructure. The Caribe balcony appears to rest on top of the roofs of the Dolphin cabins. And the Dolphin balcony seems to rest on decking which is part of the ship's superstructure.

[JohnCW]

First, thanks to Host Anne for pointing out this fascinating thread. I just read the whole thing - took me over an hour but it was worth it ;) !

 

I am no fire safety expert but I have a few things to add.

 

First, there has been speculation on the material of the balconies. The superstructure of the GRAND-class ships above the main deck is aluminum. Aluminum has been used in many ships' superstructures since the 1940s and in virtually all ships built in the late 1960s or later. One very notable exception is QUEEN MARY 2 (which is of course a Princess ship in all but name now). I assume that the balconies themselves are aluminum - certainly the superstructure they are attached to is - though someone, somewhere on this thread posted a link to a company which manufactures composite balcony units which are a new concept to me. So if not aluminum, I guess these balconies could have been composite. At any rate they are not steel.

 

Second, on the sprinkler issue - some have questioned about what type of sprinkler is used. STAR PRINCESS does not have conventional sprinklers but rather a water mist system, the brand name of which is HI-FOG. Over the past five years or so, HI-FOG has become commonplace for the majority new ships, as well as for retrofitting older ships without sprinklers. (Sprinklers became mandatory under SOLAS in October 2005... I will not go into the various SOLAS fire regulations right now; maybe later.) Interestingly, I believe GRAND PRINCESS, back in 1998, was the first ship to have a full HI-FOG system.

 

The system's makers claim that the system is more effective than traditional sprinkler systems as well as requiring much less water. They have issued a statement[/i] about the incident:

 

 

I hope this information is helpful... And thanks to all the experts out there who have contributed fascinating information and an analysis about this tragedy. As I said, I do not frequent the Princess boards (I host Cunard and HAL) but obviously you have some very knowledgeable people on here!

 

In selecting construction materials, alot of trade off are considered. Fire is a consideration, but there are many, many more, in fact fire isn't the only safety factor. Whats more saying we are building it out of aluminum or steel, etc really is just the surface of what a material is. There are hundred of different types of steel & aluminum. And for each of them there different heat treatment, coating, finishes, etc. All having different properties that make them good for one application and not so good for another.

[CruiseWacker23]

Justin...you must be a CFI or CFEI. I would say you are right on target given the latest info and pictures. Of course nothing is certain since we can only go by the photos. I also agree 100% that if a fire of this magnitude would have started inside rather than on the balconey, given the thin cabin walls, extension would have been rapid and severe if the sprinklers didn't hold it. The death toll would have been staggering. To back up your theory on the origin being around Caribe 308, go to the thread "Real photos of the Fire" and check out the picture on post #20. The photographer is shooting from forward and below the fire and is estimating the fire is on C 308-310 extending to B 308 & 310. This is apparently early on into the fire.

I really can't wait to hear the cause. No matter what the cause, we now know that there is a flame spread problem on the verandahs!

 

CW

[alibail]

To anyone who was onboard her at the time of the fire,

 

http://www.maib.gov.uk/latest_news/star_princess.cfm

 

*If you were on board when the fire broke out, or have perhaps sailed on a previous voyage on the Star Princess, and have any information that you think would be helpful to the MAIB's investigation, please complete a Passenger Questionnaire which can be downloaded here:*

[zackiedawg]

Justin...you must be a CFI or CFEI.

 

Not quite...I guess I'm more of an AWBSTFI - Amateur, Wanna-Be, Self-Taught Fire Investigator. ;)

 

I just have an avid interest in investigational science and evidence analysis...a bit of a science and math nerd blended in too. I've learned much from speaking to people in the industry, reading books, keeping track of articles about fires and the post-investigation analysis, etc., and applying basic probablility and statistics (can you tell I like the CBS show "Numb3rs?).

 

I would say you are right on target given the latest info and pictures. Of course nothing is certain since we can only go by the photos. I also agree 100% that if a fire of this magnitude would have started inside rather than on the balconey, given the thin cabin walls, extension would have been rapid and severe if the sprinklers didn't hold it. The death toll would have been staggering. To back up your theory on the origin being around Caribe 308, go to the thread "Real photos of the Fire" and check out the picture on post #20. The photographer is shooting from forward and below the fire and is estimating the fire is on C 308-310 extending to B 308 & 310. This is apparently early on into the fire.

I really can't wait to hear the cause. No matter what the cause, we now know that there is a flame spread problem on the verandahs!

 

I appreciate someone with training and experience sharing a similar opinion...it is encouraging to know that my deduction is at least logical and not out of line with statistical possibility. I did see that 'real photos' thread, and in fact was part of the reason I added to my theory this morning as to the origin of the fire.

 

Thanks for an additional viewpoint and professional support for this theory!

[spongerob]

It is really going to test my patience waiting to find out not where, but HOW the fire started. I find it interesting that none of the very many who have posted their comments here or in the news stories linked by members have mentioned that they were interviewed as part of an investigation, or if anyone was detained. Several people have hinted at knowing what caused the fire to start but (perhaps thankfully) have resisted posting their thoughts.

 

I did a rough calculation of how much this is costing Princess. 6 Caribbean cruises have been cancelled or refunded, including the 3/19 cruise, plus the 15-day transatlantic. If you assume that the average fare for a 7-day cruise is $750, and that everyone on board will spend about half that in on-board expenses, the 57 days out of service will end up with a total loss of revenue of almost $24,000,000. (That's 2.4e7 for you Numb3rs jocks). That doesn't include the extra transportation costs, compensation for damaged items, and FCC's that will be issued to everyone involved, or the cost of repairs. The magnitude of the financial loss is staggering.

[sunshine426]

This has been a very informative thread. Having just gotten off the Star Princess on the 25th even moreso. I also have pictures of the fire damage from our balcony and the sun deck. I don't know that any can show more than have already been posted, but Host Anne, if you want me to email them to you I will. We have also heard many theories while on board the Star, but most is just speculation. I am also anxious to hear the official reports, but think they will be a long time coming, if the general public ever does. My husband did see the fire from our balcony, came in, we dressed, gathered stuff (passports, meds, wallets), took one more look at the fire(spreading quickly) and knew the general alarm would be sounding at anytime. General Alarm sounded and we "mustered". I have written an accounting on the main Princess board if anyone wants to hear another eye witness account. I think it was much less than 20 minutes from when I heard some tones and a call to check a cabin to when the general alarm sounded.

[bhopal21]

Thanks Spongerob for the perspective, that is an awesome amount of money for any corporation to absorb.

 

Mike

[bdjam]

Interesting theories about the burn pattern…looking at the pictures, I wonder why only two mini-suites are charred? Might that be where they were able to reach to fight the fire while the internal sprinklers stopped it from spreading inside the ship?

[Tater1800]

It is really going to test my patience waiting to find out not where, but HOW the fire started. I find it interesting that none of the very many who have posted their comments here or in the news stories linked by members have mentioned that they were interviewed as part of an investigation, or if anyone was detained. Several people have hinted at knowing what caused the fire to start but (perhaps thankfully) have resisted posting their thoughts.

 

I find it very coincidental that the in-room movie on the evening before the fire was the Bruce Willis film, "Hostage". In this film, liquor bottles stuffed with rags were used as fire bombs. I have emailed Princess and the MAIB about this concern.

 

On Thursday night there was an announcment asking for the person that pulled the fire alarm to contact security.

[zqvol]

More analysis:

 

If the rumors of the fire starting on the balcony of Baja 310 or Caribe 310 are true (and it is possible), then this would make perfect sense for the burn pattern. Baja 310, on Deck 11, is located just above the halfway point of the third full lifeboat from the bow, roughly two rooms under the Lido deck overhang, and two decks down from the Lido. This is at the very front of the burned section, and all burn is aft of that location, making the ship’s forward motion the primary influence on the direction of the fire’s spread. The fire does drop down to Caribe deck fairly extensively, which is feasible given the tiered deck layout and smaller balcony sizes. And the fire does extend all the way to the Lido overhang, where further upward growth appears to have been stemmed by the overhanging deck. Some of the Plexiglas panels on Lido show melt patterns, and some of the Lido overhang’s floor was buckled and scorched…but the fire did not broach the overhang and extend to the top of the ship.

 

The balconies at the front of the burn section are melted away, then a section of balconies is not fully melted away, then farther aft another very intense section is melted away, including the only debris fall that seems to have reached down to Dolphin deck. Near this section, there is also significant smoke residue and scorching of Lido deck directly above this spot. Rather than conclude that the fire started midship and extended forward and aft, I now theorize that the fire started forward and burned back only. If the ship was in motion and the fire began in the 300-320 sections, it would be propelled aft by the wind of the ship’s motion. After the alarms were sounded, and firefighting efforts began, there would likely be some delay before reports were made to the bridge that the fire was not containable to the localized area, prompting a full ship alarm, and the process of stopping the ship’s motion and angling away from prevailing winds…a process that does take several minutes on a vessel of that size. During this time, the fire likely extended to the midship area. Then the ship stopped, and wind was no longer pushing the fire…the midship section was fully involved and the smoke began rising straight up (note the smoke pattern on Lido deck forward is at a 45 degree angle, indicating ship movement, whereas the middle section of smoke pattern on lido is predominantly straight up). This would also prompt the fire to burn hotter and longer in one spot, without moving on, and therefore would explain the significant melting of aluminum balconies, intrusion of cabin doors, and significant debris fall extending down to Dolphin deck.

 

Burn pattern beyond the midship seems to indicate that the fire had spread farther aft on the Aloha and Baja decks. I would postulate that this might be because of the funneling effect of the fire under the Lido overhang…it was forced aft more quickly as it could no longer extend up. The fire would hit the Lido overhang, and be forced in three directions – left, right, and out, looking for a way up. The fire forced left had nothing to burn, as the fire had already burned from this direction. The fire forced out licked over the Lido overhang, but didn’t find enough combustible material to spread. The fire forced to the right (aft) was the only one able to find fuel. With the ship’s forward motion stopped, the fire was not being directed aft as strongly, and the firefighting efforts appear to have been able to stop the fire.

 

Looking at the close-ups of the rooms in the midship burn area, many of the glass doors are still in place, and those which are broken or warped still show fabrics and materials inside the cabins which retain their color and show only mild scorching (as Spongerob mentioned). That would seem to support the idea that the fire was predominantly on the balcony areas, and likely only intruded into a few cabins where the balcony doors gave way to the heat. If the fire started inside a cabin…even assuming there was a failure of the alarm or sprinkler systems, it would have likely extended from cabin to cabin internally, melting away the floors between cabins and burning through cabin walls. This does not appear to have happened – even eyewitness reports from the worst-affected cabins (those totally burned out with loss of all personal possessions) do not mention seeing through several cabins with missing walls or missing roofs to cabins above. Those rooms that did burn appear to have had fire forced into them from very intense fire on the balconies, and once breaching into the rooms, they seemed to have quickly burned low-resistance items (bedding, clothing, pillows, carpeting, paneling, plastics) but extinguished before burning long enough or hot enough to melt down aluminum structure. This would seem to indicate the sprinkler systems successfully prevented the spread of the fire within the ship.

 

It would appear the balconies were indeed made from a separate material than the ship sides to which they were attached. The dolphin deck cabin roofs and the outer wall where the balcony lights are mounted appear to have suffered no warping or melting…nor the dividing walls between cabins, or ship sides where balconies were attached. Balcony mounting points appear to still be intact. So while balconies made of aluminum were melted away, it appears that the ship sides, cabin outer walls, and Lido overhang were made of steel. Though the Lido floor buckled in the overhanging section, it should have melted away entirely if made from aluminum, given the heat of the fire under it, and the length of time it was exposed to the heat. Steel on the other hand would have a much higher resistance, and might only begin to suffer mild warping or buckling at the temperature aluminum burns at.

 

The recent close-up pictures of burned cabins show crewmembers inside those cabins. The balconies are melted away and these cabins are in some of the most intense burn areas, yet the furniture inside still retains some fabric and color, and the cabins are still structurally sound. It appears that crew is cleaning up in many of these cabins, which likely suffered only mild scorching near broken balcony doors, but significant water damage from the firefighting efforts.

 

That’s the latest I’m seeing in the pictures out there! All just theorizing and deducing from visual research…comparing pictures of the burn to ship diagrams and deck layouts. Looking forward to more official information, or hearing other people’s theories or observations!

That was great. Do you think that the fact that Princess indicates the ship will be sailing again in about 7 weeks bolsters your thoughts?

[cruise182]

 

I did a rough calculation of how much this is costing Princess. 6 Caribbean cruises have been cancelled or refunded, including the 3/19 cruise, plus the 15-day transatlantic. If you assume that the average fare for a 7-day cruise is $750, and that everyone on board will spend about half that in on-board expenses, the 57 days out of service will end up with a total loss of revenue of almost $24,000,000. (That's 2.4e7 for you Numb3rs jocks). That doesn't include the extra transportation costs, compensation for damaged items, and FCC's that will be issued to everyone involved, or the cost of repairs. The magnitude of the financial loss is staggering.

 

I wonder if they (Princess) has insurance to fall back on? I am sure the cost of the rebuild...but as far as the loss of revenue....??

[Saga Ruby]

Can anyone speculate as to what is going on right now on the Star regarding insurance company inspectors and MAIB, NTSB, etc.? Do you think "they" have a good idea by now of origin and cause or is it still too early?

 

I know the general public will not hear for awhile but I agree with SpongeRob - I'm keen to hear something substantive as opposed to rumor and innuendo. We recognize that accurate investigative reports take time and I'll also bet that there's a long line of corporate types looking at the damage. However, to quote the five-year old - I wanna knoowwwww!

 

"That's 2.4e7 for you Numb3rs jocks." Laugh - boy, did I laugh. I watch the show and enjoy it but to these English major eyes, the chalk talks are at the level of set design, not reality.

[zackiedawg]

BDJAM -

It doesn't look like Dolphin deck was ever involved in the fire - Dolphin deck juts out quite far, and the balconies above, on Caribe, are resting on the roofs of the Dolphin deck. That appears to have been a good barrier in preventing the debris fall from dropping onto Dolphin deck. Likely in the areas where a few minisuite balconies were burned, it was from the balcony collapses above - something burning made a 'lucky' bounce and landed on the minisuite balconies - just enough to start a small fire. The firefighting efforts on the ship may also have been quickly deployed to that drop fire to avoid involving a whole additional deck in the fire.

 

ZQVOL - I do think that sounds consistent...I would imagine any damage which was structural, or severe internal cabin and room damage, would add much to that time. Replacing glass doors, interior cabin appointments, rebuilding exterior balconies, and some electronic and plumbing work inside many of the affected cabins, with total replacement of some cabins which were fully torched being probably the longest delay.

 

SAGARUBY,

"That's 2.4e7 for you Numb3rs jocks." Laugh - boy, did I laugh. I watch the show and enjoy it but to these English major eyes, the chalk talks are at the level of set design, not reality.

 

You might be surprised to learn that the math displayed and used in the show is quite accurate. There are occasional bloopers when the actors write out formulas, but the formulas themselves, most of what you see on the boards, and the logic and use behind such formulas, are real in that show. It is far far beyond my skill levels, but what I do understand of it is legit...and the show actually has several math professors consulting for them, and a website with links for schools to explain the math used in each episode!

[Saga Ruby]

SAGARUBY,

 

You might be surprised to learn that the math displayed and used in the show is quite accurate. There are occasional bloopers when the actors write out formulas, but the formulas themselves, most of what you see on the boards, and the logic and use behind such formulas, are real in that show. It is far far beyond my skill levels, but what I do understand of it is legit...and the show actually has several math professors consulting for them, and a website with links for schools to explain the math used in each episode!

 

Justin - thanks for that info about Numb3rs. For me, 2+2 is sometimes 5, so I didn't know the math equations were at that level of accuracy. I'm in awe of the performance of the actors quoting dialogue while writing math formulas and making me absolutely believe them. A tip of the hat to that show for encouraging an interest in math and the sciences with weblinks for schools.

 

After all, that's why this thread is so good - a devotion to fact, not fantasy.

 

Ruby

[dwkwootton]

This thread really is exceptional! I've read each and every post and appreciate not just learning this very good information, but the tone and respect of the posts.

[mii]

This thread really is exceptional! I've read each and every post and appreciate not just learning this very good information, but the tone and respect of the posts.

 

I could not have said it better myself. Thank you

 

Marilyn