Summit Alaskan cruise disappointment (MERGER OF 5 THREADS ON THIS TOPIC)

[Ma Bell]

Was the repair successful? Did the rock survive?

 

What about the ship, did it have to be repaired?

 

I was under the impression that ships and not rocks are referred to as "she":rolleyes: I don't see the word "it" in my sentence referring to the rock. Try reading the sentence again.

[FinelyCruising]

My dollar goes to Summit for the most pod problems...

[c-legs]

Summit does not have a long history of breaking down, Infinity does. You really should check your facts. I think it happened once. There was another time when she hit a rock and had to be repaired.

:) Hi,

Actually, GTS SUMMIT did have 4 previous premature wear failure to the infamous pod system....Not that it has anything to do with the pathetic behaviour of a few on board, just a detail.

 

Cheers

CG

;)

[Ma Bell]

:) Hi,

Actually, GTS SUMMIT did have 4 previous premature wear failure to the infamous pod system....Not that it has anything to do with the pathetic behaviour of a few on board, just a detail.

 

Cheers

CG

;)

 

 

I believe you. I'm still under the impression that Infinity is the one that has had the most problems and the most cancellations. I may be wrong, but I thought a couple of times the Summit's pods were replaced in a scheduled drydock and didn't affect cruises.

[FinelyCruising]

Starting which year? :D

[brigittetom]

Not everyone reads these boards but the people on these boards know what the problem is. Quit gripeing about Celebrity and the pod problems and just don't book the M class ships if you feel that missing a port or two is going to ruin your cruise.

 

Celebrity will step up soon enough if these ships start sailing at half capacity.

 

The people on the Summit at this moment missed two ports. Did they not enjoy Juneau, Ketchikan, and the rest? Are these people really going back home to England saying that their whole trip was ruined because they missed two ports? Even if the ship isn't your "destination" the other ports should have been enjoyable. If not, I agree with other posters who said that if the destination other than the ship is the most important thing then maybe it would be better to do a land based vacation because situations on a ship can change beyond your control.

 

Everyone is disappointed when ports are missed. So what else is new??

[captbill]

According to Cruise News Daily, this marks the fourth time the Summit has required unscheduled bearing replacements, and the sixth time overall.

 

The entire statement can be found in post #25 of this thread.

[safein]

I can't believe this thread! I wish I were on that cruise just to enjoy the ship and being pampered away from home. I do feel sorry for the passengers who are trying to enjoy themselves and trying to stay away from the disgruntled.

 

Anyone who has ever cruised on ANY cruise line should always not only read the contract, but the back of the brochures. There's information there that one should read before booking on any cruise line.

 

Ex-cruising I thought had the best take on the whole situation.

 

Now as far as the whole pod problem on the Millie class: The Infinity was the first to have the pod problems since she was delivered from the dockyard. Millie did not show any problems at that point, but when inspected, they discovered that she would indeed have the same problems as her sister. Infinity has continually had problems since the day she was built and it always happened around March.

 

Infinity has the longer pod problems than any of her sister ships combined. We had to play the wait and worry game last year when they pulled Infinity into an emergency drydock. They sent her to San Francisco to have her pods fixed. As we all had to fly to Hawaii to get onboard, we kept Celebrity's customer service and Captain's Club very busy. We all breathed a giant sigh of relief when the Bridgecam showed her leaving drydock.

 

When discovered, Summit was being built. Constellation was just having her keel layed. The Summit really did not have any trouble until recently, and I believe they thought they had gotten rid of the problems that popped up on her sister ships. I know they definitely tried with the Connie.

 

As far as the suggestion that Celebrity lay up the Millie class ships until they fixed the pod problems, you don't realize that besides the lost revenue, they still have the crew to think of, and, the biggest cost factor is that it is extremely expensive to lay up any vessel. You're not talking thousands, but hundreds of thousands, to close to a million dollars to lay up a vessel.

 

A drydock alone will cost upwards to 2 million dollars! What's included in that cost you ask? Labor, cost of materials, a lot of times they will bring in new crew and send some home, port charges, tug charges bringing the ship in and out of the dock and, the most expensive, the cost of the dockyard that is several hundred thousand dollars.

 

These pod problems have caused Celebrity headaches to no extent. I am very glad that they are going back to Meyer Werft for their newbuild.

 

We will find out tomorrow, not only here,but it will be interesting to read their roll call. Too bad that they didn't take a lesson from the cruisers on the 3/27 Mercury cruise. You get more accomplished when you get straight to the facts and not cause a near riot on board.

 

Anita

[Verystormy]

I find some of the posts on here astonishing. Lets not forget people, that Celebrity isnt a chapter of nuns or some amazing charity. They are a profit making company who cares about you as much as any other profit making company - ie enough to get you to spend more on them than on another.

I wonder if these cruisers are as loyal to every company they deal with?

 

Secondly lets remember that celebrity have "money grabbed" a large sum of compensation for the pod problems, yet they dont seem as keen to pass some of this on to the customers effected??

[tarheelmjfan]

I can't believe this thread! I wish I were on that cruise just to enjoy the ship and being pampered away from home. Anita

 

Don't forget the goat cheese souffle. That alone is worth the price of the cruise. :D I could really go for a meal in the Normandie restaurant this evening. <sigh>

[Moeve]

Excuseme all you fellow Cruise Critics but here is a little info some of are garanteed not going to believe BUT they are indeed true.

 

These cruise contracts some of you are pointing out do not protect the cruise lines in all countries around the world. Some countries have much better Buyer protection in place. That is also the reason you will see differnt types of compensation. Germany for example is one of those countries and since X / RCCL sell their own product here therefore they fall under these laws first before their US Contract comes into play. This results in higher cruise pricing on most cruises (NOTICE I never said all!!!!) Courts in Germany tend to be consumer friendly when products are not delivered as sold. Courts have put together guidelines for compensation to be found under the "Frankfurter Liste". Our Judges have found that cruiselines are not just selling cruises but also Destinations (just look at their Broshures and Websites) so they also need to deliver the product they are selling. Oh the cruiselines try it here too "but our contract says......" but any buyer who takes such an issue to court for good reasons will get some hearing not all but some. I guess we can agree that a FULL refund is not going to happen anywhere but a certain % of the fare paid. (suites & balconies paid more than you Cat 12 pax and therefore also had bigger damages - according to legal thinking)

 

HOWEVER the current behavior on the Summit will also weigh into any desion a Judge anywhere in the world will take on this particular case. If X is really *p...ed ..off* then wait to see if they bring up any charges..... Ouch just imagine the damages X could want to have for the time the casino was unable to do regular business!

 

The Bottom Line I guess is if you have a problem - hand the Capt a letter stating you are not accepting the compensation and then take it to court without causing such a scene - however you should be aware of the legal possiblities you have before taking such astep. Another thing I guess we can all agree upon is that the Capt. of a ship is also an employee who only has certain limits to what he can offer - if his Boss is saying no. I hope we can agree that such actions like on the Summit are not acceptable and we should not encourage our fellow cruises instead perhaps we should take them aside and remind them that being civil gets problems solved in a better manner.

 

With this said I'll step off my little soapbox for now.

[greeneg]

To my knowledge, Constellation has not had an unscheduled POD problem. All of the rest of the M class have.

 

In several respects, it's sad that the PODS have been so much trouble: the idea of them seems to be great; the ship is quieter, less vibration, more fuel efficient and more manouverable, for a start. Great Engineering Idea-- somewhat less than perfect execution.

 

Wonder if the Accountants at RR had anything to do with that???

[FinelyCruising]

Brian, if things were that easy, Celebrity would do it in a minute, but you don't seem to have many of the facts.

 

First, the problem itself is in the manufacture of the bearings used in two bearing rings in each of the two pods. For some unknown reason, the metal begins to break down and disintegrate long before it's supposed to. Rolls Royce, the manufacturer, designed it to last longer than the average time between drydocks, which is 2.5 years. For some reason it's not lasting, and Rolls Royce hasn't yet figured it out. Each time the rings are replaced, they are replaced with ones with bearings that were manufactured with a different process formula that Rolls Royce thinks/hopes will solve the problem, but they don't. These aren't parts that you go get off the shelf somewhere. These bearings are about 2.5 feet in diameter and manufactured specifically to go into this system. This is why Rolls Royce and Alstom were sued by RCCL to both recover what it's costing them and to pay for some permanent yet-to-be-determined solution.

 

Preventive maintenance, as you suggest, would be great if they knew when to expect the bearings to disintegrate, but they don't. This is the fifth time this ship has had them changed, and the fourth in an unscheduled situation. It was delivered in August 01. In March 02 all four rings (both thrust and radial) were changed. Those lasted until September 04 when the thrust bearings needed to be replaced. Then in January 05 all four were again replaced during a regular drydock. Then already in June 05 it was back in for another unscheduled replacement of the two thrust bearing rings, and now May 06. Contrast that with Constellation at the other end of the spectrum on which they have lasted up to three years between regular drydocks. The other two ships have had spotty records, with short and long periods between unscheduled replacements. The bottom line is that if they want to do preventive maintenance to be certain to avoid the problem based on the historical data, they would have to be replacing them every two or three months, and that just wouldn't be feasible.

 

As far as replacing the propulsion system, that's not a speedy option. It's not like changing a light bulb to a different brand. It's more like becoming dissatisfied with Windows on your Intel-based computer and deciding you want to run Apple software. The reengineering that would be necessary to replace the Mermaid pods with ABB's Azipods would probably take a couple of years plus manufacturing and installation time. Then you have no assurance that ABB wouldn't run into some other problem just as unexplainable, since an operation like that has never been done before.

 

The people in charge at RCCL aren't stupid people. They've considered all of this and rejected it because the simple solutions aren't as simple as they sound. At this point, in the short term unfortunately, they aren't in a position to do anything but live with the problem.

 

Alan Wilson

Cruise News Daily

 

Good idea to get this critical information back to where people might read it.

[Rumbear]

:rolleyes: Ruminations......Surely money will make this all better.

Will these "Lawyurs" be greeting the ship when it docks? Maybe they could just board with the customs folks in Canada and be at the end of the customs table filing lawsuits? I'll take a class action, please. Next!

Perhaps a table outside the baggage claim. Will Celebrity be providing interpretors for the foreign speaking folks? They should because "this is all their fault." Towels? Soft drinks? 1000 plus people will be a long line. Will Captain's Club members get a priority in this line? Will Canadian customs co-operate. Let's sue them too! Canada's got some big $$. They certainly knew about these problems on Summit. Why would a nice country such as Canada allow such a ship to operate in it's waters?:confused:

What about the dry dock folks...did'nt they fix it right the first time? Now they will make, gasp!, more money off of another haulout!? Surely they KNEW this problem would come up again and cause grief, misery and an all around bad vacation.

These poor downtrodden folks on a ship being :( ........waited on, along with maid service, fresh linen, gourmet food and entertainment.:eek: Oh!, the humanity........ :cool:

[CruisinFromTx]

A famous (?) American was quoted "Can't we all just get Along?" It's a cruise people, not the War on Terrorism....

[ClearBlueWater]

My wife and I travelled on a previous Summit cruise curtailed by pod problems (we were the one after it had drydocked for a week to repair). While we were miffed that our holiday had been shortened and, after a serious degree of complaining, we got a reasonable compensation and went on and had a great cruise.

 

However, despite the fact that we like Celebrity's ships and have found the food in particular to be very good, we were disappointed in how shabbily they treated us as customers. As a result, we have decided not to cruise with them again. There are plenty of other cruise lines who offer a similar product so if you can't rely on their ships being in service and the on-shore customer service is poor, then don't sail with them.

 

Celebrity need to learn that customers will not return if you treat them poorly, without passengers that aren't going to make money.

[Mildred]

I think that the passengers have protested a bit too much. Maybe they should be sent to their cabins without supper...

_______________________

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia...

 

Mutiny is the crime of conspiring to disobey an order that a group of similarly-situated individuals (typically members of the military; or the crewAge of Discovery, mutiny particularly meant open rebellion against a ship’s captain. This occured, for example, during Magellan’s journey, resulting in the killing of one mutineer, the execution of another and the marooning of two others, and on Henry Hudson’s Discovery, resulting in Hudson and others being set adrift in a boat. While many mutinies were carried out in response to poor conditions within the military unit or on the ship, some, e. g. the Connaught Rangers mutiny and the Wilhelmshaven mutiny, were part of larger movements or revolutions. of any ship, even if they are civilians) is legally obliged to obey.

 

Penalty

 

Most countries still punish mutiny with particularly harsh penalties, sometimes even the death penalty. Mutiny is typically thought of only in a shipboard context, but many countries’ laws make no such distinction.

Here are some shipboard distractions for the Captain and Cruise Director to consider to keep the passengers happy and entertained....

From William Falconer's Dictionary of the Marine -

 

KEEL-HAULING, a punishment inflicted for various offences in the Dutch navy. It is performed by plunging the delinquent repeatedly under the ship's bottom on one side, and hoisting him up on the other, after having passed under the keel. The blocks, or pullies, by which he is suspended, are fastened to the opposite extremities of the main-yard, and a weight of lead or iron is hung upon his legs to sink him to a competent depth. By this apparatus he is drawn close up to the yard-arm, and thence let fall suddenly into the sea, where, passing under the ship's bottom, he is hoisted up on the opposite side of the vessel. As this extraordinary sentence is executed with a serenity of temper peculiar to the Dutch, the culprit is allowed sufficient intervals to recover the sense of pain, of which indeed he is frequently deprived during the operation. In truth, a temporary insensibility to his sufferings ought by no means to be construed into a disrespect of his judges, when we consider that this punishment is supposed to have peculiar propriety in the depth of winter, whilst the flakes of ice are floating on the stream; and that it is continued till the culprit is almost suffocated for want of air, benumbed with the cold of the water, or stunned with the blows his head receives by striking the ship's bottom.

 

GAUNTLOPE, pronounced gauntlet, a race which a criminal is sentenced to run in a vessel of war, as a punishment for felony, or some other heinous offence. It is executed in the following manner: the whole ship's crew is disposed in two rows, landing face to face on both hides of the deck, so as to form a lane, whereby to go forward on one side, and return aft on the other; each person being furnished with a small twisted cord, called a knittle, having two or three knots upon it. The delinquent is then stripped naked above the waist, and ordered to pass forward between the two rows of men, and aft on the other hide, a certain number of times, rarely exceeding three; during which every person gives him a stripe as he runs along. In his passage through this painful ordeal he is sometimes tripped up, and very severely handled while incapable of proceeding. This punishment, which is called running the gauntlet, (courir la bouline, Fr.) is seldom inflicted except for such crimes as will naturally excite a general antipathy amongst the seamen; as on some occasions the culprit would pass without receiving a single blow, particularly in cases of mutiny or sedition, to the punishment of which our common sailors seem to have a constitutional aversion.

 

- Mildred's other half..... :cool:

[griswalds]

I don't believe anyone has suggested that fixing the pods is easy to do, although there have been a number of wild suggestions on how other passengers would have handled this issue had it been them on this cruise.

 

The issue at had, really comes down to a business decision by RCCL/Celebrity.

They have a serious design flaw for whatever reason and they know it. Their decision is to try to keep the ships running knowing they have a higher risk of failure that the rest of the fleet. It is a "reasonable" risk if you have a plan to quickly and farly resolve the situation if the ship breaks down earlier than anticipated. As well passengers booking on this ship should be advised that they run a higher risk than normal of a breakdown.

 

I am sure the proper repair to these ship will not come cheap and that is probably why they have made the business decision to keep running them and hope they do not run into a group of passenegers like they did on this cruise.

 

Griswalds

[safein]

I find some of the posts on here astonishing. Lets not forget people, that Celebrity isnt a chapter of nuns or some amazing charity. They are a profit making company who cares about you as much as any other profit making company - ie enough to get you to spend more on them than on another.

I wonder if these cruisers are as loyal to every company they deal with?

 

Secondly lets remember that celebrity have "money grabbed" a large sum of compensation for the pod problems, yet they dont seem as keen to pass some of this on to the customers effected??

 

I don't think you read my post properly. Even if Celebrity won a settlement of 40 million dollars, which would be 10 million per ship, Drydocking the ship each time for an emergency repair would run close to a million dollars each time. They still have to pay crew and of course they still have to pay for fuel going to and from the drydock facility.

 

I used to see these bills when I worked for Overseas Shipholding Group,so I know what I am talking about.

 

greeneg, they were able to get most if not all the pod problems fixed on the Connie as she was the last to be delivered and was built after they found the pod problem on the Infinity. Unfortunately the Summit wasn't so lucky. As it took 4 years for the Summit problem to come up big fruition, I'm sure Celebrity is hoping that the same doesn't happen with the Connie.

 

Anita

[mctrekkie]

Since the cruise ends today, perhaps we'll hear from some of the passengers in the next few days.

[griswalds]

I hope we can hear from some of the passengers. It will be interesting to hear the different perspectives. The "pirates" and I use that term fondly, may limit their comments if there indeed is a law suit coming. But it will still be interesting to hear about things were on the ship.

 

I also wonder if the repairs will be done on time for the next revised "scheduled" cruise. These pasengers are sitting there nervously waited for confirmation...not a good situation.

 

Griswalds

 

 

Since the cruise ends today, perhaps we'll hear from some of the passengers in the next few days.

[poetic license]

I can't believe there are now over 300 posts on this topic. Guess everyone is having a slow week. :D

[Lotsacruising]

I just got off of 13 nights on the Summitt, so I speak from experience as one of the passengers that went with an expectation of a grfeat cruise. But 1 thing after another happened. You had to be there to imagine what it was like. Yes we missed 2 ports, giving us 3 sea days in a row twice. But also, other port times were shortened. How would you like to have all of 20 minutes in Hubbard Glacier instead of all day. Also, we got 2 yours of inside passage cruising, instead of hours like we should have. Yet we stood at a complete standstill the day we should have been in sitka, a complete standstill in the middle of nowhere waiting for a pilot ship that the captain knew damn well could not come until 5pm.

Try spending thousands and thousands of dollars for a cruise and being disappointed and lied to over and over by the company, staff and crew. I have cruised 53 times and I know that stuff happens, but not this much, I am proudly part of the class action lawsuit being brought by over 1000 of the passengers

Janet

[Casshew]

Hi Janet, was there anything good about the cruise? food, entertainment, etc?

 

What do you feel is fair compensation for missing 2 ports & shortened glacier viewing?

[turtlemichael]

A famous (?) American was quoted "Can't we all just get Along?" It's a cruise people, not the War on Terrorism....

 

:D You got it in one!