Question for TAs

[AlohaPride]

Why wait to mail the letter? By contacting the BBB and/or a state agency now is that over the next 4 months their investigation might give you a better break. I would also copy your complaint to the owner and manager of the travel agency. It sure won't make anything worse.

 

My thought would be to leave everything as is and get on with the dreaming and planning for your trip. The effort, time, and stress to save a few more dollars wouldn't be worth it to me. You have learned your lesson.

 

I didn't want to send it now incase my TA gets in trouble and "takes it out on me" by "accidentally" canceling all of my reservations! :eek: I wouldn't put it past her. Obviously, the client's signature isn't needed to make cancellations, so I guess I'm being over-paranoid....but I've learned to be SUPER CAUTIOUS :rolleyes:

 

I agree, $70 isn't worth it! Thanks for your guidance! :)

[alwayscoldmom]

Please concider going a step further and get the media involved. Does your local news media have a consumer reporter? I think you will be doing a public service. If you paid for your trip with a credit card I would also check with them to see if you have any recourse against the travel agent hijacking your refund.

 

I hope you have the best cruise ever! You deserve it after what you have been through.

[kryos]

I want to amend my above post -- I should have put in that this all applies prior to final payment. After final payment, with very very very rare exception, the booking stays with the original agent.

Thanks for that clarification. I was gonna say ... well, if the TA doesn't agree to release the booking, why couldn't you then just cancel it with the original TA and rebook with the new one? If it was before final payment, the original TA would have to give you a refund on your deposit. But, yeah, I guess after final payment, you'd be stuck if the original TA refused to relinquish it. Of course, if I were the customer, I'd make sure that TA knew she'd never get another booking out of me ... no matter how good a deal she may have to offer.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Stevesan]

I didn't want to send it now incase my TA gets in trouble and "takes it out on me" by "accidentally" canceling all of my reservations! :eek: I wouldn't put it past her. Obviously, the client's signature isn't needed to make cancellations, so I guess I'm being over-paranoid....but I've learned to be SUPER CAUTIOUS :rolleyes:

 

I agree, $70 isn't worth it! Thanks for your guidance! :)

 

An excellent observation. BUT can you be sure she doesn't monitor this board?

[wgeddings]

I learned about moving a booking recently. I used to use a TA that had some problems. I tried to book directly through HAL this time and got a great rate, etc. Very happy. Then I found out that a certain on-line TA could get me the same thing about $150 cheaper. So I contacted her and we worked with HAL to move the booking and it was very simple. Note that was moving a booking from HAL to an agent, not agent to agent.

 

The reason I mention it is because of the result. The result was that I saved about $150, got some nice perks from the TA (dinner at the Pinnacle) and then HAL pays a commission to the TA. So I saved money, got cool gifts and a TA got paid. The weirdest thing about the transaction was that of the total cost of the trip ($1,650), I had to put $1,400 down. So my final payment is now only about $100 compared to the $1,400 "deposit". No problem, just funny to me. I cannot wait for our cruise!

[bdcbbq]

I didn't want to send it now incase my TA gets in trouble and "takes it out on me" by "accidentally" canceling all of my reservations! :eek: I wouldn't put it past her. Obviously, the client's signature isn't needed to make cancellations, so I guess I'm being over-paranoid....but I've learned to be SUPER CAUTIOUS :rolleyes:

 

I agree, $70 isn't worth it! Thanks for your guidance! :)

 

If I owned a business and one my employees pulled a stunt like this on a customer, they would be fired in a second. I would also be trying to patch this situation with reasonable compensation.

 

You are young, and most likely going to be a successful person who will want to travel. I would want your loyalty and would do anything just short of being unreasonable to keep you as a long term customer. By making your problem known to the manager/owner in a factual reasonable manner, you may get yourself a much better deal.

 

I've found that by complaining to the powers that be I can actually turn a situation like this into my benefit. My guess is the manager would take over your booking or assign it to there most trusted agent. They won't screw around with you.

[AlohaPride]

You are young, and most likely going to be a successful person who will want to travel. I would want your loyalty and would do anything just short of being unreasonable to keep you as a long term customer.

 

What's REALLY funny is when all this started I mentioned that I had 2 vacations tentitively planned for 2007, and would love to have those also planned by her. She has done NOTHING differently! She knows I'm only 23 and have MANY years of vacationing a head of me. So, I'm honestly dumb struck when it comes to this.

 

Are you suggesting I bring this up now with the Agency and the BBB? Or are you suggesting I only speak with the Agency?

 

At this point I know I can't have my bookings transfered to another TA. Should I send the letter now or before my cruise?

 

I would also be willing to email anyone the letter to see what they think I should do if you need any further information. I don't want to wait till December only to find I waited too long. And I don't want to send it too early only to find that when I get to the Air Port to go to NY I don't have any reservations. :(

[wgeddings]

The BBB is just a voluntary agency with no enforcement authority and seldom if ever accomplishes anything at all other than to make it look like something is happening. If you send the letter to the agency, be sure you send it to her and to her supervisor and to the head of the agency. Check what state you are in and she is in. You may want to send a copy to each state's Department of Consumer Protection or Affairs or to any governmental agency that administers any travel agent licenses for that state (yours or hers). You cannot send it too many places and the more people who know about it, the less likely it is that if she tries to be cute and cancel something that she will get away with it. Even copy HAL with the letter. The key is to make the right waves in the right places. People like to have you complain to the BBB because it is a pond where waves do not matter.

[hammybee]

Mary,

What am I missing ?

 

You are not yet at the final payment date, although you have " voluntarily" made final payment. Is there any reason why you cannot cancel the entire cruise and associated arrangements with your T/A and rebook it elsewhere?

 

I always thought final payment date, not final payment was the point of no return. Am I mistaken?

 

BTW, I agree with wgeddings, filing a report with the BBB is meaningless unless it gives you a personal sense of satisfaction that you took action.

[bdcbbq]

What's REALLY funny is when all this started I mentioned that I had 2 vacations tentitively planned for 2007, and would love to have those also planned by her. She has done NOTHING differently! She knows I'm only 23 and have MANY years of vacationing a head of me. So, I'm honestly dumb struck when it comes to this.

 

Are you suggesting I bring this up now with the Agency and the BBB? Or are you suggesting I only speak with the Agency?

 

At this point I know I can't have my bookings transfered to another TA. Should I send the letter now or before my cruise?

 

I would also be willing to email anyone the letter to see what they think I should do if you need any further information. I don't want to wait till December only to find I waited too long. And I don't want to send it too early only to find that when I get to the Air Port to go to NY I don't have any reservations. :(

 

Send your letter to the agency and the BBB. When writing your letter state the facts by making an exact list of the specific issues that you are concerned about, be polite, tell them what you want to make this resolve the problem, provide a reasonable time frame (1 week) for them to get back to you. For example you should request a transfer to another TA within the agency, a refund of the charges you don't think are correct, and an onboard credit for the troubles you have had. The last item can be negotiatable depending upon what they offer. They might offer you a discount on a future booking with them. This could be more valuable than an onboard credit for future travel.

 

Keep copies. If they do not follow up, contacting a local news media outlet could be the next step. While the BBB is not an enforcement agency they will keep a record of the complaint and tell future clients whether complaints were resolved satisfactorily.

[lvtotrvl1]

I am not a TA but I do work with the general public and on 100% commission. As such, over time, one develops an instinct for the occasional person who has unreasonable expectations and/or require high maintenance. ( Again this is not directed at Mary/OP.)

 

When one overrides their own instincts in favor of a potential commission, one often pays dearly for it because the person may soon become the client from hell-o. And then for me, at least, it becomes a challenge to exceed their expections.

 

As usual, I have used too many words to make my point.

 

very eloquently put hammy:)

[AlohaPride]

Mary,

What am I missing ?

 

You are not yet at the final payment date, although you have " voluntarily" made final payment. Is there any reason why you cannot cancel the entire cruise and associated arrangements with your T/A and rebook it elsewhere?

 

I always thought final payment date, not final payment was the point of no return. Am I mistaken?

 

BTW, I agree with wgeddings, filing a report with the BBB is meaningless unless it gives you a personal sense of satisfaction that you took action.

 

But because I "voluntarily" made final payment not only will she take $50 pp for the cruise and $150 pp for the flights (all of them) in cancellation fees, she will ALSO keep her commission. So in the end, I wont be getting back in refunds nearly as much as I have already paid.

 

I did not know the BBB was meaningless. I guess I should contact the Department of Consumer Protection. Thanks for the info!!

 

bdcbbq, I would love to be as eloquent as you! I also would love to do just what you said I should do. I'm just so concerned about confrontation. I tend to shy away from it. :o I know it needs to be done, I just don't want to do it.

[wgeddings]

I am an attorney so have to deal with situations like this way too often. Trust me when I tell you that the biggest reason people are unable to resolve situations is because they try to go about it the wrong way. Sending letters to the wrong place, asking for unrealistic things, using words that fit the wrong pigeonhole, etc. Not that you were doing that. The advice about listing the specific events and giving a specific idea of what you think should be done to reasonably resolve the problem is excellent advice. Also, I know exactly what hammybee means and too often have overlooked my "gut feeling" in favor of taking a case and then later would have done anything to not have to deal with the annoying person or drastically different facts after I have dealt with it a while.

 

If you wish, you can e-mail me privately and I would be glad to look over the letter for you and offer suggestions. Just as a person, not as an attorney since I am probably not licensed wherever you are (unless it is SC and GA).

 

Tommy

[wgeddings]

Ooops, what I meant to say AlohaPride is that I am only licensed in the United States, not internationally so if you are ever in the States, please let me know. :D What language do they speak in Hawaii? :confused:

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. I have friends in Hawaii who always complain about tourists forgetting Hawaii is a state. :rolleyes:

[AlohaPride]

Ooops, what I meant to say AlohaPride is that I am only licensed in the United States, not internationally so if you are ever in the States, please let me know. :D What language do they speak in Hawaii? :confused:

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. I have friends in Hawaii who always complain about tourists forgetting Hawaii is a state. :rolleyes:

 

Hi Tommy!

 

I would LOVE it and be so very grateful if you would look at my letter. I really really REALLY appreciate your generosity!! However, I was unable to find your email address.

 

If you don't want to post it on the boards, I understand. My email is mhirose at chaminade dot edu

 

We speak pidgeon and Hawaiian here. Not too much English. I was luck to be born in GA, so I can speak English (spelling is a different story). We live in grass huts, and wear grass/hula skirts. :D

[bdcbbq]

bdcbbq, I would love to be as eloquent as you! I also would love to do just what you said I should do. I'm just so concerned about confrontation. I tend to shy away from it. I know it needs to be done, I just don't want to do it.

 

Believe me, you are very eloquent, even with Wordperfect! :)

 

However, learning how to be assertive is a great skill to have. Just be yourself while writing your letter and stating the facts. You will do fine.

[hammybee]

But because I "voluntarily" made final payment not only will she take $50 pp for the cruise and $150 pp for the flights (all of them) in cancellation fees, she will ALSO keep her commission. So in the end, I wont be getting back in refunds nearly as much as I have already paid.

 

Oh Mary,

I am so sorry. You are going to have to hit me over the head, because I still do not understand.

 

The final payment date for your cruise is a future date. Cruises can be cancelled prior to this date without penalty from HAL. Why would the fact that your deposit happens to be the full cost of your cruise, change this? Are you certain that someone is not confusing Final Payment Date with your "voluntary" full payment?

 

I understand that some T/As might charge a cancellation fee regardless of when a cruise is cancelled. And so long as this was communicated to you, in writing, before your made your deposit, it is what it is.

 

I am not understanding why the TA feels entitled to her commission, above and beyond a cancellation fee, should you decide to cancel before the final payment date. Is this in writing, a part of the contract between you and your TA?

 

What if HAL cancelled the cruise tomorrow or a week before sailing due to the need to go into dry dock? Is the TA still entitled to a cancellation fee and commission out of your pocket? ( Please do not add this very remote possibility to your worries.)

 

In other words, are you certain that you and the TA have an enforceable agreement that gives her the right to withold both a cancellation fee and her commission, should you cancel before final payment date?

 

Mary, you are a strong and persistent woman faced with a challenge that you can and will meet. And, as always, the board is here.

[AlohaPride]

Oh Mary,

I am so sorry. You are going to have to hit me over the head, because I still do not understand.

 

It's ok. I don't understand either... :o

 

The final payment date for your cruise is a future date. Cruises can be cancelled prior to this date without penalty from HAL. Why would the fact that your deposit happens to be the full cost of your cruise, change this? Are you certain that someone is not confusing Final Payment Date with your "voluntary" full payment?

 

I'm not sure what you mean. But yes, my full payment is a few months before what my due date would be had I known about deposits.

 

I understand that some T/As might charge a cancellation fee regardless of when a cruise is cancelled. And so long as this was communicated to you, in writing, before your made your deposit, it is what it is.

 

No extra charges were communicated to be before payment. In fact, I had to remind her that I had a form to sign.

 

I am not understanding why the TA feels entitled to her commission, above and beyond a cancellation fee, should you decide to cancel before the final payment date. Is this in writing, a part of the contract between you and your TA?

 

I have no clue why she feels entitled to her commission! When I worked in time share, if we had a sale that was paid in full and they came in 7 days later and canceled, we lost our commission on that sale....I honestly DON'T get this part!!

 

What if HAL cancelled the cruise tomorrow or a week before sailing due to the need to go into dry dock? Is the TA still entitled to a cancellation fee and commission out of your pocket? ( Please do not add this very remote possibility to your worries.)

 

No worries added. I have enough on my plate thanks :) I can't help a cruise being canceled.

 

In other words, are you certain that you and the TA have an enforceable agreement that gives her the right to withold both a cancellation fee and her commission, should you cancel before final payment date?

 

I don't have anything in writing. I don't have an agreement. But this is what is being done. So far she has kept a little over $50 in commission she didn't earn. Further, the hundreds of dollars in cancellation fees (even a fee for a cruise that wasn't canceled, just the booking number changed). The more I talk about it here, the more upset I become, and the more willing I am to send in the letter.

 

Thanks, everyone for your support! If I were at this alone, I would have not know WHAT to do...

[wgeddings]

You can contact me at tommygeddings at gmail.com. That is the quickest one.

[AlohaPride]

You can contact me at tommygeddings at gmail.com. That is the quickest one.

 

I just sent it. Hopefully you get it soon! Thanks again!!!!!!

[hammybee]

I don't have anything in writing. I don't have an agreement. But this is what is being done. So far she has kept a little over $50 in commission she didn't earn. Further, the hundreds of dollars in cancellation fees (even a fee for a cruise that wasn't canceled, just the booking number changed). The more I talk about it here, the more upset I become, and the more willing I am to send in the letter.

 

Thanks, everyone for your support! If I were at this alone, I would have not know WHAT to do...

 

Based on what you are saying, it certainly sounds as though this T/A is confusing your "voluntary" full payment with the rights you have to cancel before final payment date. It also sounds like the T/A does not have an enforcable contract. The T/A does however, have your money, thus the dilema. Let's keep our fingers crossed that wgeddings can help you sort this out.

[Alexborngal]

That's the major problem I've been having lately (I haven't made posts because it doesn't relate to cruising) but I've cancelled a hotel she booked for me, and she refunded me everything BUT her commission ($34). Same went with the refund from the cruise line for the drop in price ($20). She charged me $150 pp to change our Delta flight a day (even though Delta only charges $50 pp usually). For a total loss thus far of $254 - among other things. I've DEFINATELY learned NOT to use her.

 

The reason I asked this question to begin with was I noticed my cruise prices are falling again and am stuck between asking for ANOTHER change to get $200 or just letting the cruise line keep the $200. I know my TA will take $100 ($50 pp) for "canceling" our booking and she will keep her commission, so really how much would I end up getting back? Not enough to make me want to put more money in her pocket.

 

There are regulatory agencies which control travel agents. I used to work for an attorney representing travel agencies and there were many agencies who got into major trouble with these agencies. Since this was in the 1980s, I don't have any current information. IATA comes to mind. When I read your post I was horrified at the TA's extra charges and I don't think these charges are within acceptable limits. They are penalties for using the agency and that is not appropriate. You've said you're writing a letter to the BBB, but also contact the president of HAL, Stein Kruse, Delta, the owner of the agency, Consumer's Affairs, the TV station in your area which reports deceptive practices. I suggest you make the biggest stink you can. As they say, the squeaking wheel gets the oil.

 

Good luck and please don't take this abuse lying down.

[ocngypz]

You fax your request to HAL with the pertinent information.

 

The booking can be taken from the original agent by HAL and transferred to your agent of choice.

 

I am an agent, and I see this happen all the time.

[hammybee]

There are regulatory agencies which control travel agents. I used to work for an attorney representing travel agencies and there were many agencies who got into major trouble with these agencies. Since this was in the 1980s, I don't have any current information. IATA comes to mind. When I read your post I was horrified at the TA's extra charges and I don't think these charges are within acceptable limits. They are penalties for using the agency and that is not appropriate. You've said you're writing a letter to the BBB, but also contact the president of HAL, Stein Kruse, Delta, the owner of the agency, Consumer's Affairs, the TV station in your area which reports deceptive practices. I suggest you make the biggest stink you can. As they say, the squeaking wheel gets the oil.

 

Good luck and please don't take this abuse lying down.

 

T/As are an unregulated business in the U.S. The accronym you are talking about is probably the CLIA, which is more of a trade association than anything else. They promote cruising and provide for various designations awarded after taking classes. They also show members how to market themselves. Members do agree to operate within guide lines but the CLIA has no authority over members' business.

 

I purchased a too good to be true cruise ( X) on eBay from a TA running a pyramid scheme, that came apart at the seams. I was fortunate enough to catch on early enough that something was amiss. And this is how I learned that the industry is not regulated in any sense of the word. I begged, badgered and persisted with X to take over the booking and they eventually did. I was one of the few eBay buyers who actually sailed the cruise they bought. One of the purchasers had bought a suite or penthouse- a lot of money, and he actually flew to the TA's city to track her down, police in tow.

 

In Mary's case, the TA took advantage of her inexperience and the cash nature of the transaction and appears to be continuing to do so. There is no reason why this booking cannot be transfered to HAL or another TA, given final payment date is still out there. That Mary happened to pay for the entire cruise well in advance of the deadline makes no difference. She is still well within the no penalty zone period. If she cancels outright, she will get a check, not cash, and for this reason, I would remain wary.

 

If I lived in the area, I would relish the opportunity to be Mary's advocate and work it out. I would begin by filming the interaction............

[AlohaPride]

Hi Everyone!

 

Tommy really really REALLY helped me with my letter (especially the ending part of it). It's printed, signed, and stuffed in an envelope. Now I just have to get it into the mail box. A feat much harder than it sounds. I just have to keep reminding myself what's been happening. Part of me just doesn't want to deal with it anymore and cut my losses. But the other part of me feels like if this can happen to me, what is going to happen to others who DON'T have the CC Boards? I'm just not looking forward to confrontation.

 

Hammybee, I would LOVE it if you were my advocate! :D Thank you for your support!