Tipping Guides

[jazzlvr57]

I am tired of being told how poor their wages are...then go to college and get out of the poverty or just accept it. It is not my job to have to provide income for them just because they have very little. I save and I save for my vacations and we work hard all year. I am not going to throw my tip money away just to help them out. I was unaware that after paying 20$ pp to do the tubing I will have to them tip multiple guides.... is that what you are saying to me????? And how much per guide? We are a family of 4. If the guides just help you navigate the river...isn't that part of the price of the tubing??? I go to amusement parks..I pay the admission...if I ask a worker something do I tip them??? NO! If a theater worker seats me, do I tip them? NO..it is part of the admission. I would think that the 20$ pp includes the right to have a guide to make sure you can tube without incident.

 

I'm sorry, I was just trying to answer to the many people who feel that everywhere they go someone has their hand out for a tip and they were wondering what most of us do. Of, course, you don't have to tip - but as I said before many of those guides are not being paid as the guides here in the US would be. Use your concience (sp) - if you feel that the guide was an integral part of your tubing experience tip him a couple of $$, if not, don't - it is your choice.

 

Of course, we all work hard for our vacations and I can understand that arriving and doing a tour without realizing that someone might expect a tip could be upsetting. That is one of the great things about these boards - you can learn about these things before you go and plan accordingly.

 

To me, tipping on vacation is part of my planning - just as when I go out for a nice dinner here at home - I may know that the meal and drinks will cost me $30, but I budget for more because I will be adding a tip that will depend on the service I received.

 

As to they should just go to college to get themselves out of poverty - it would be wonderful if they could. School, even elementary through high school, is not free in Jamaica - so many children are lucky if they get a high school education - there is tuition, uniforms, no free lunches or bus transportation. Again, I'm not trying to lecture, I'm just trying to let you know the realities of this society. And I think that they do accept their situation very well - I have many, many friends in Jamaica who work hard and still struggle because the economy is based on tourism and some years are very lean, they don't complain they just keep doing what they have to do to survive.

[Inshape]

I do understand what you are saying. But if i am paying for a service why should i then tip for the service I am paying for? It sure is not right if the answer is they are poor and it is our job to give them more money so they can feed their family. My Dh also tunes pianos for extra cash and no one has ever given him a tip. His fee is X amount and even if it is the best tuning that is all he gets. He also gives music lessons. He gets no tips, even when his student gets county and state awards. He also fixes clocks, never got a tip there either. He also does alternative medicine. He charges a consultation fee and he is not tipped. When someone sends him additional emails or calls for further info or questions he does above and beyond...and never got a tip. They paid for the service and to make sure his customers like the service he does his best. I do not get why you should have to tip a tube guide when you pay for tubing. I would not expect them to hand you the tube and say bye. It goes with the service--the guide.

[LJLB6]

The first time we were in Jamaica, we didn't know that we needed to tip the guides who take you up the falls at Dunns River. Our guide actually BLOCKED the exit steps from the falls and held his hand out for a tip----we had worn bathing suits and didn't have any money with us since we left it in our tour operator's van. The guide actually got belligerent when I told him we didn't have any money. Next time we went, we made sure we took some cash with us.

Also, if you take a tour (Peat Taylor, etc) you are "expected" to tip at the stops along the way---we stopped to see a "fire eater", etc. You can avoid the tipping situation by not getting out of the van at the various stops.

[piper28]

I am expected now to tip a guide ?? A guide for what?? I thought that was the price of the tubing...20$ which includes the admission and whatever comes with it> If he hands us a tube we need to tip? That is what I am paying for!

 

I won't try to argue whether or not a tip is something that should be expected in this case, but if the experience is anything like ours, I think you'll be surprised at just how hard the guides will be working. There were only 6 people in our group, and the 2 guides we constantly running back and forth doing everything they could to keep us out of the edges of the river, and following the proper path. At the break place they also spent a reasonable amount of time taking us around and showing us the flora there.

[hilltopfamily]

The first time we were in Jamaica, we didn't know that we needed to tip the guides who take you up the falls at Dunns River. Our guide actually BLOCKED the exit steps from the falls and held his hand out for a tip----we had worn bathing suits and didn't have any money with us since we left it in our tour operator's van. The guide actually got belligerent when I told him we didn't have any money.

 

And I suspect this is why so many get upset or want clarification over the issue of tipping. Can't believe a guide would feel that it was acceptable for him/her to get belligerent to people! We'll be in Jamaica for the first time in a couple of weeks and for me, I'm glad to read about this ahead of time so I'm not quite as shocked should this happen to us. Probably won't happen, though, because I think we'll just go to Sunset Beach and avoid all the fiasco! :)

[TOTTT]

Inshape, two friends who have previously visited the island for a couple of weeks at a time, and are now going to see it from a cruise ship asked me to drop by this message board to share what knowledge I can on this issue, feeling that as an American who has married a Jamaican and chosen to live on the island, I can sometimes see issues from both sides of the fence. I don’t know if I can really be of help but am willing to try.

 

Many people come to Jamaica for a vacation and reallly have no interest in the island...they are just looking for someplace warm, with pretty tropical scenery and a place to escape for a bit of vacation. There is no problem with that if that is all one wants and has no intention of exploring anything outside the resort where they’ll be staying.

 

Many people come to Jamaica and have no interest in doing any research to learn anything about how the island or the people operate. There is nothing wrong with that either if that is a comfortable travel style.

 

The problem is, that when out and about and dealing with the people, or the Jamaican system, there can be much confusion due to the non-understanding of the culture, or the country, and without someone with you to explain this, it can lead to fear, confusion, displeasure and an all-around bad taste...which is a shame, because the island itself is so varied, has so much more going for it than can ever possibly be seen or understood in the incredibly short amount of time a ship is in port.

 

It would be like someone from Jamaica, who has never traveled before, coming to a major city in America -maybe New York City for instance...where there is no knowledge of how that particular city operates, or what to expect visually when getting off the plane and onto the roadways or through the different types of neighborhoods, or the customs of the people in general...90% of everything being worlds apart from the life known in Jamaica. To say it would be a shock to the system is an understatement. And if that Jamaican had heard conflicting stories...”New York is GREAT!” vs “New York is a cesspool - avoid it at all costs! EVERYONE there is a thief, is out to rip you off, what you do pay for is expensive”...imagine the added confusion? And if that visit to New York City is just a whirlwind trip to two or three of the major tourist attractions, overcrowded because that’s the only day other incoming Jamaican planes land there and have 3000 or more people at a time dislodge for a whirlwind trip through those same limited neighborhoods and attractions...and that Jamaican is at the mercy of someone who just treats them as a number but really has no vested interest in seeing that they understand anything or experience a more tranquil side of the city...would it be so unusual for that Jamaican to return to his own country and declare New York City to be a horrible place to be avoided at all costs...and more so, to say that the whole state, or whole country of America is a miserable place? And is it a fair assesment of America and the American people in general?

 

Yet, over and over again, that’s what often happens in reverse when cruise ship people come here for a one 8 hour day visit.

 

Trust me...if the people themselves were not at the mercy of the government, and could change this country and how they need to live in it, they would. Ten percent of the population is so wealthy you couln’t calculate it...about 25% would fall into the middle and upper middle category...and the rest of us fall at varying lower levels on the food chain.

 

As mentioned, the ‘average’ Jamaican wages work out to about $45-$50 a week...and the cost of living here is the same as America. In perspective, a pair of shoes, made in China, generic not name brand, that will last me, if lucky, for about 4 months, cost a day’s wages...and these shoes are nothing more than a pair of glorified sandals. A chicken burger meal with french fries and a coke at Burger King are a half days wages...it is extremely doubtful that anyone on this message board could see themselves spending a day’s wages on a pair of sandals, or a half day’s wages on a fast food meal...but maybe these examples will somewhat show what prices are like here for the ‘average’ Jamaican...and will answer that question I am always asked: “Why do they choose to live like they do?” (in little wooden houses, not owning a car, whatever...) They don’t CHOOSE to live this way...it’s what happens when you live in a country where your income is not even a fraction of your expenses...and you have no opportunity to do better.

If the majority of Jamaicans who wanted to go to college could, they would. If they could find a way to escape the poverty, they would. Many do accept the poverty to a certain degree...by learning to deal with it...For me, I quickly learned that there are three NECESSITIES in life here...a dry roof over your head (be it a mansion or a cardboard box with a piece of tin on top to keep it ‘waterproof’)..one square meal a day...and if in a partnership - be it a marriage, a business partnership etc, - someone to work WITH you, not against you. Everything else in life is a luxury. It doesn’t mean you don’t WANT to have more, or do better...it just means that if you don’t achieve more, you’ll still survive.

 

You should tip here as you do in the states...as a way of saying “Thank you” for service above and beyond the basic job’s requirements. (Of course, not having lived in America for nine years now, I’m assuming tipping is still done because you WANT to, not because you feel you HAVE to.)

 

Again, as mentioned, many guides receive a nominal weekly or monthly salary...the more tourists that come through that attraction, the lower the salary as it is assumed that they difference will be made up in tips. And when I say nominal salary..it will work out to $500 Jamaican dollars a day...for an 8 hour day...and currently, that is worth about $8US dollars..they typical salary for the average worker in the tourist industry. Again, stretch $8 a day to life where you live and maybe, hopefully realize what your own living conditions (and ultimately behavior) MIGHT be like...knowing your government is going to do nothing to help you raise yourself up educationally or in any other way to better things.

 

As in your own home country...tip if you choose or don’t tip if you don’t want to. If nothing else, and you don’t choose to tip, or don’t have the money to tip, but you have noticed you enjoyed yourself in some way...PLEASE...at least smile at the person who helped, thank them, let them know you weren’t informed that tips were a part of the custom here and have no money but STILL wish to let them know that you will remember your day, and them, with a smile. This doesn’t fill the pocket, but can fill the heart if your sentiments are true, and give that individual the incentive to continue on with their job knowing that they are still appreciated.

Fan-ta-Sea, I too have been to Dunn’s River Falls and have seen the guide, who actually only has direct contact with the person in the chain right behind him, block the entrance and ‘demand’ a tip...and that’s just outright wrong. More deserving of the tip is the sometimes ‘come along’ guide who actually is taking time to help someone in a tricky spot, who is there to give encouragement, who takes your camera and photographs you because you’re so busy trying to keep up with the group or watch where you’re going that you don’t recognize a great photo spot when you’re right in front of it. Best response when someone demands a tip? Shake that person’s hand and say “Thanks for leading the first person in the group...maybe next time I can be up front and hear what’s said.” DON’T be intimidated!! DON’T let it ruin your day. Let this rude and beligerant individual rant and rave to their heart’s content...and you just continue on your merry way. The problem is that no one goes home, writes to the powers that be at that particular attraction, and explain the situation and their displeasure and the fact that they want to spread the word of what is going on. If enough people wrote and complained, the behavior would change..trust me. The tour guide who takes you on ANY excursion should tell you what to expect in the way of tipping guides on the attraction sites if it wasn’t spelled out in email correspondance before you booked your trip.

 

Hilltopfamily, guides get beligerant because they can...no one complains, they won’t be seeing you again, the intimidation works...so the obnoxious behavior continues. It’s a shame, because these few forceful individuals give all hard-working, polite and gracious Jamaicans (and the country in general) a bad name...it is something that hurts me to this day to see a country with so many wonderful people getting a bad rap, over and over and over again.

 

There are so many places you can go in MoBay or Ochi that are not over run with cruise shippers...but I’m not sure how many people take the time to contact independent tour companies to find out their options...

 

Jazzlvr, is that you???????????? After reading these boards and the different experiences, I want to either have everyone head over to the west side of the island, or maybe Soloman and I should move to Ochi!!!!!

So, in a very large nutshell, that’s my 2 cents on the issue of tipping..there’s so much more to this iceberg...but I don’t see a thread discussing Jamaica in general, so for now, this is it. I don’t know if I’ve helped or muddied the issue. I am certainly hoping no one takes offense for me stepping into the mix, nor telling you there is one way only for you to operate when visiting the island. Jamaica has something for everyone, be it accomodation, food, sights to see, places to vacation. My hope is only that you give her a chance, if you can...

[Bumpa]

WOW! Well said.

I notice you are a writer, it shows. I have read most of the posts about tipping and I'm very impressed with your post and am much more comfortable with my trip to your Island.

[drfeelgood]

The rapid growth in the cruise industry has also changed the demographics of the average cruise passenger over the past 15 years. I remember in the 80's most cruisers were at least upper middle class people when it came to annual income level. Now due to a much larger supply of cruise ship cabins, cruising is available to a broader group of people. A lot of people still have to save for months even years to take a cruise and then run on a tight budget while on the cruise. I know a nice, hard working guy that took his family on a cruise last year and they saved for 2 years to take this cruise. Tipping does not come natural for him since he basically mows lawns and pressure washes houses for a living and does not get tipped.

 

He is basically a good ol' country boy, and I would have loved to have seen a video of him and his family in Ocho Rios. I'm sure when he got to the top of the falls he patted the guide on the back and said "boy that sure wuz fun, thanx a bunch" and not thought a thing about having to tip. He did tip the ships crew because he read about it beforehand, but since nothing was mentioned about shore excursions he didn't budget for tipping them. I was surprised when he told me he was taking his family on a cruise knowing how frugal he is. He then told me his 13 yo daughter had never been out of the state of SC and his kids were growing up fast.

 

I don't mean to go off on a tangent or to sound arrogant but merely point out that many cruisers are a lot tighter with their own money these days and really take offense when a tip does not seem appreciated or expected when not necessary.

[jazzlvr57]

TOTTT - yes it is me, and I am really itching to get back to Jamaica since it has been a year almost since my last visit - and the next one is no where in sight right now.

 

Thank you for your very well written post. I especially enjoyed the comparison to a Jamaican coming to NYC - I was actually there for the first time myself last month - with an Aunt & Uncle who wanted to show me as much as possible in about 6 hours. My thought at the end of the day was that it was much too big, too noisy, and too many people and I'd be happy never to go there again. Looking back at my pictures, I realize there is so much more to see (although I'd choose Jamaica over NYC any day). A few hours anywhere is not enough to give a true picture of the place.

 

I also agree that a smile and kind word can go a long way. Many of the people I enjoy seeing when visiting Jamaica are people who I first encountered that were trying to sell me something - and some pretty persistently. Most of them have not gotten any of my money, but a smile and a little conversation so the next time (sometimes 2 years later) they see me coming down the beach I get a big smile and warm greeting.

 

The suggestion to complain to the tourist attraction directly (rather than to the cruise line or on a board like this) would help as well, I'm sure.

 

And, I think you will have a better chance of getting everyone over to the Negril area then you will have convincing Solomon to move to Ochi. :rolleyes:

[AZbeachboy]

TOTTT,

 

Having been to New York City, it does not sound much different that Jamaica. Obnoxious, forceful street barkers (sellers) , everyone with their hands out. Sounds pretty much the same. Thank you for your post.

[Tmmull]

This is a little off topic, but the WORST tipping experiences I have ever had have been the porters in both the ports of Miami and Baltimore!

[AZbeachboy]

I have never had trouble with porters at any port. Never done Baltimore. But a bus driver in Miami taking us back to the airport from Miami to Ft Lauderdale airport did not like the tip I gave him and chased me and bugged me half way to the terminal.

 

The thing was I put the bags on the bus. All he did was take them and line them up on the curb after we arrived. i gave him the same tip as I did the porters and he did not do nearly the work. The shuttle driver that took us to the port said he was pleased with the tip and gave us a thank you.

[Lisab733]

I think "Tipping" has gotten out of hand. Do you realize there are many under developed countries who consider a tip and insult. They think that if you have to tip them they weren't doing their job. I to have been to NYC and when I went into the pizza place and order a slice of pizza, they didn't request a tip, when I went down to the museum, they didn't ask for a tip. I was never approached by anyone asking for a tip. I tip servers, and others if I feel they have done a great job (I was a waitress myself) or have gone above and beyond what my excursions cost (been on two other cruises), otherwise they need to increase the excursion cost to include all those tips, I'm sure everyone knows everyone along the route and we tourist won't be caught unawares and would be happy to pay everything at one time...... I am looking forward to our visit in February and will go knowing what to expect. Thanks to all of you....