Dog on Constellation

[NorthernLite]

Susan are you aware that severe allergies can cause death? So you are saying the law will protect the rights of a disbaled person to mobilty but not the life of a severily allergic person who isn't really expecting dogs on a cruise ship.... That is sad and if you think about not actually acceptable either.

 

To those of you belittling people for being afraid bear in mind - most of these people have already had nasty experiances with dogs -and most will not be expecting dogs on a cruiseship......Now if you are unlucky enough to pick the cabin right next door then chances are rather big you are going to run into your neighbour and his animal more than once on the cruise. I don't see why if HC cabins can be marked in a decks plan why can not the same thing be done for cabins allocated to service animals? It is a simple way to help both parties... At home these people can cross the road and put abit of distance between an animal and themselves - now that just isn't possible in a ship corridor.

 

Have you ever wondered how that person lost their sight or the use of their legs? How about the guy with ALS? I don't thank the ADA for defining service and guide dogs. I thank groups like the Paralyzed Veterans of America that beginning in WW2 taught returning service members with disabilities how to live independently. For many this has meant service dogs. Not all these people volunteered.. Many service members from the first Gulf War are dying from ALS and no one knows why. They can die for your freedom and peace of mind but you can't deal with this?

The Medicare laws tried keeping one man inside his house to meet regulations for care and miss his children's soccer games, school plays, weddings (basic church is ok for some reason..). You can very easily get a prescription for Epi Pens and if you are that allergic you already have them as does the ship's doctor. Also service and guide dogs (and therapy dogs before trips to nursing homes, etc.) are normally groomed to within an inch of their lives to reduce dander and hair.

 

As for fear of dogs, well, it's like a lot of fears. See a psychologist and get on with your life. You will pass dogs getting on planes, cruise ships, all over our nation's capitol and in most heavily tourist traffic areas. They sniff out explosives, drugs, ladies face lotion containing incredibly trace amounts of nitroglycerine, illegal foods being brought back and they do that for you too. Have you asked if your luggage has ever been opened because a dog alerted on it? Doubt it. Would the dander left be deadly to you? If so no one travels or you stay home in a bubble.

 

When you book your cabins specifically state you are highly allergic and ask to have the cabins adjoining screened for the walking passengers who need dogs, stay away from the handicapped cabins, they tend to be grouped together and are marked on deck plans. And make sure the Maitre D' is made aware of your allergy also. Hopefully you never are near a coat made in China on an Alaska cruise. Yea, it says raccoon. And last, avoid the December 3 2007 tranatlantic on Century. My DH and my, currently 8 month old goden/lab retreiver puppy who I hope passes her tests before then, service dog and I will be on it in a Sky Suite. Oh, I'll carry my card stating I am a lifetime member of the PVA with me in case anyone thinks people buy $5,000 wheelchairs for fun.

 

I hope I've been more educational than attitude but some days when I see another soldier has come back minus their sight, a child has been born with spina bfida or a drunk behind a wheel turns a newlywed woman into a divorced quadriplegic I get a tad uppity. Hope you all have a safe and healthy New Year!

[FinelyCruising]

Sounds more angry to me than anything else. :o

[Moeve]

Northern Lite - you didn`t read all my posts that is clear since I never suggested ANYWHERE that dogs should not be allowed BUT that both sides of the fence should be concidered!!!

 

Notice the lady in question here did not require a HC cabin so she could theoretically she could have been anywhere on the ship. Just an example we have a little girl (5 years old) in the town I live in she was BADLY mauled by 2 Westies in her garden almost 2 1/2 years ago - she barely survived (yes 2 little 10 pound dogs did lots of damage in less than 3 minutes) and even though she is in physcologial therapy now she is petrfied by dogs ( the bigger the animal the worse it gets) X is not able to tell the parents that a dog is onboard since X is not even allowed to divulge this kind of info on other passengers (privacy laws) So the only way these parents could avoid ending up next to a service animal is if certain cabins were put aside for that pupose and these be clearly marked in the decks plan. That way they could either find a deck without such a cabin or choose one in the other corridor.... The corridors are the biggest problem since this child couldn't cross over to the other street side and put distance between herself and the animal.

 

I see this little girl almost everyday so maybe that is why I can see the otherside of the fence too. I guess that is also why I tend to get a little angry when people who belittle the fear of animals. Northern Lite I hope I misread what you were saying but if you intended to say that your problems were bigger and those of this little girl and others like her and that they had no right to be afraid and no right to have their vacation protected too. Then I can only say shame on you!!! If you cannot accept the diabliites of others why should they accept yours? You see how that works- so why can't we try and help both sides?

 

Cruising is a perfect vacation for this familiy since there is almost never a dog onboard but you know Murphys Law right... all I was suggesting is to set aside certain cabins which are clearly marked like the HC but since not everyone that has such an animal needs a HC other cabins need to be put aside for this purpose.

[NorthernLite]

Sorry, I was trying not to sound angry. But the more our planet shrinks due to travelers the more dogs you will encounter. ADI, Assistance Dogs International, is trying to create a world wide standard for service and guide dogs. There are chapters from San Diego to Seoul and Paris. It was formed so people could train their own dogs and then pass standardized tests.

 

I also have a friend whose face was half ripped off when she was a kid by a cocker spaniel. She now has a pitbull for a service dog and had her vet choose the dog. They actually are sweet dogs when not trained to fight while cocker spaniels are nippy little things naturally.

 

And I agree with you on having 2 types of cabins for the different challenges. Just like more and more driving disabled would like to see 2 types of HP parking. We realize that while wheelchair and scooter users need the wider spaces those with breathing difficulties, severe arthritis and walkers with MS just need to be close to entrances. I think many parking problems would be solved by putting the wider spots near the back of the lots as they do in many European cities. And doctors need to see what it takes to get in and out of an adapted vehicle. So many just sign the paperwork when threatened.

 

As for the allergy itself? My best friend of 30 years is deathly allergic to bees. She travels everywhere and even wears perfume (bees like perfume) but never leaves the house without the epi pens. It sucks but like diabetics who keep insulin nearby or sweets I never leave home without my lead sled.

 

So yes, I do try to see both sides, actually I think it's more like 5 or 6 sides, of the equation. And to try and change the tone this thread has taken.. My loving puppy gets car sick. I sure as hell hope she grows out of it because I am not exposing her to cruise ships when she can't handle I-95.

[smeyer418]

I know of no privacy law that prevents the cruise line from telling a passenger if X is asked whether they know a service dog will be aboard. That is different from saying that Mrs. Magoo in room 2341 has a guide dog aboard. Unfortunately I don't think the information is flagged to be available to all CSR's. Hotels are required to accept service dogs. So a person who has a fear of dogs may see them anytime they travel--just the luck of the draw. Its like peanut allegies. The airlines may not carry them but nothing stops me from bringing them from home to a plane...Sometimes people just have to live with their fears unfortunately.

[Drew B]

Cruising is a perfect vacation for this familiy since there is almost never a dog onboard but you know Murphys Law right... all I was suggesting is to set aside certain cabins which are clearly marked like the HC but since not everyone that has such an animal needs a HC other cabins need to be put aside for this purpose.

 

I think that everybody here can see the problem a service animal would cause a person with debilitating fear or allergies. Based on the law and corporate policies, though, X allows them. Your suggestion of having designated cabins would work, but it is not the only solution that would work. A passenger with dog problems (fear or allergies) could also disclose these problems and ask the cruise line to place them in a cabin with no dogs nearby. Either solution should work just fine.

[Moeve]

It is not flaged for exactly that reason - since no cruiselines or hotel for that matter may give out any infomation about other guests...

 

Up to now the family has been lucky and never had an animal on board a flight or cruise but that is due more to the fact that relatively few animals travel by air or ship. We always advise the airline or cruiseline of the problem and we are ALWAYS told that they would not be allowed to tell us even if this info was available. So we can only hope that if it happens they are not on the same corridor and the airline gate agent will move the family to the back of the plane while the animal is in the front.

 

They have however had it in a hotel - they were to stay next door for a week. Fortunately the hotel was able to move them to another floor the next day -just putting a little distance between the two...

[constantcruiser]

I travel by air quite frequently and recently observed a passenger waiting at a gate with a cat on a leash. Some flight attendants standing nearby said it was officially listed as an "emotional support animal" and the passenger had permission to hold the cat on his lap throughout the flight.

 

I love cats and would have been delighted to be seated next to one, but I know many people who are very allergic and would be affected even if the cat was at the opposite end of the plane. Whose rights are more valuable? And if you were allergic, how could you be certain you would be on a "feline-free flight"?

 

Not a big problem today...but I sure hope I'm never seated next to a passenger whose emotional stability depends on draping his pet boa constrictor around his neck!

[Drew B]

I travel by air quite frequently and recently observed a passenger waiting at a gate with a cat on a leash. Some flight attendants standing nearby said it was officially listed as an "emotional support animal" and the passenger had permission to hold the cat on his lap throughout the flight.

 

I love cats and would have been delighted to be seated next to one, but I know many people who are very allergic and would be affected even if the cat was at the opposite end of the plane. Whose rights are more valuable? And if you were allergic, how could you be certain you would be on a "feline-free flight"?

 

Service animal or not, airline passengers are able to bring cats in the cabin kept in carriers under the seat in front of them. Somebody with a cat allergy could have problems no matter what.

 

 

Not a big problem today...but I sure hope I'm never seated next to a passenger whose emotional stability depends on draping his pet boa constrictor around his neck!

 

LOL! I hope I don't have to fly with the guy with the service bees! I have a mild allergy and don't carry an epi-pen, but if I was stung repeatedly and couldn't get medical attention right away, it could be a problem...:p

[NorthernLite]

Service animal or not, airline passengers are able to bring cats in the cabin kept in carriers under the seat in front of them. Somebody with a cat allergy could have problems no matter what.

 

Pet dogs also are allowed in cabins as long as they fit in a carrier that fits under a seat. Our friends brought their newest puppy back from Germany that way. And a load of dogs used to be shipped in the pressurized hold until lawsuits started over them freezing or dying of heat stroke. The hold's air system does not turn on until the plane goes up so if you get stuck on a runway.... Now most airlines restrict pressurized hold flights to certain times of the year to avoid this problem and the reason small pets can be brought in cabin.

[rebeccalouise]

This has been a very interesting debate. I come away from it wondering why on earth so many people are emotionally challenged to the point of needing therapy animals to cope. Sorry to sound like I am from the dark ages but my parents taught me coping skills. I don't require medication (including alcohol) or therapy animals to go on a friggin' cruise.

How rough is one's life that they need a pet on a cruise? Isn't the cruise itself theraputic?

It seems that people today choose medication or crutches to deal with issues that require nothing more than a good mental attitude- a "can-do" outlook and learning to deal with real life situations like an adult.

I know I sound like Tom Cruise!

[wvufan]

I am a retired vocational rehabilitation counselor. I worked with folks who had severely disabling physical conditions such and deafness and blindness, paraplegia, limited mental capacity, emotional disorders, etc.

 

I have been so blessed to have the health, money, and time to have gone on many cruises, and can't imagine ever resenting any accommodation that would enable someone else to also be able to cruise.

 

I don't care if the person needs a cute little dog, parrot, monkey, or a Clydesdale with bad breath-let them have it!

 

Sure, there may occasionally be someone who fakes the need, but I would hate to impose restrictions that might exclude a person with a legitimate need.

 

Frankly, I would rather cruise with a canine bitch than some of the human ones who have posted on this thread.

 

OOOEEE:D :D Bob and Phyl

[Drew B]

Sure, there may occasionally be someone who fakes the need, but I would hate to impose restrictions that might exclude a person with a legitimate need.

 

It is not OUR place to decide what constitutes "need". If a patient has satisfied his/her doctor as well as the cruise line, that's all I care to know. Whether or not the rest of us think that the service animal is necessary is, frankly, completely and totally 100% irrelevant!

 

And how rude would it be if I were to see somebody taking, say, an aspirin, and I were to then launch into a diatribe about how I think they don't really NEED that aspirin or how in the good old days, we toughed it out and did without aspirin? Really, why don't people mind their own business!

[rebeccalouise]

This board was not started by a defender of therapy dogs. It was just started as a post about a therapy dog. I don't think that this discussion is meant to be offensive to anyone.

A person taking an aspirin isn't impacting other people. A person with a therapy dog- arguably might impact another person.

That is why I think there has to be a geniune reason for bringing a pet along. In this case, the woman was met with mix opinions.

I probably wouldn't care if there was a cute little dog on the ship. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't care if there were dozens of therapy dogs on a ship.

I hope that day never comes!

[FinelyCruising]

Drew...bad analogy....we don't need doctors notes to take aspirin, and taking aspirin doesn't effect or affect another passengers cruise. :o

[Drew B]

Drew...bad analogy....we don't need doctors notes to take aspirin, and taking aspirin doesn't effect or affect another passengers cruise. :o

 

Okay. Switch it to use a wheelchair or wheel around an oxygen cart. I find wheelchairs and oxygen carts far more intrusive than dogs, but I am certainly not going to question others' use of these tools whether it inconveniences me or not!

 

And as for effecting or affecting another passenger's cruise, I'm guessing that the presence of an animal (or animals) would have a POSITIVE effect on at least as many if not more people than it has a negative effect on... In that case, it's a wash!

[hammybee]

And as for effecting or affecting another passenger's cruise, I'm guessing that the presence of an animal (or animals) would have a POSITIVE effect on at least as many if not more people than it has a negative effect on... In that case, it's a wash!

 

Well put.

[hammybee]

This has been a very interesting debate. I come away from it wondering why on earth so many people are emotionally challenged to the point of needing therapy animals to cope. Sorry to sound like I am from the dark ages but my parents taught me coping skills. I don't require medication (including alcohol) or therapy animals to go on a friggin' cruise.

How rough is one's life that they need a pet on a cruise? Isn't the cruise itself theraputic?

It seems that people today choose medication or crutches to deal with issues that require nothing more than a good mental attitude- a "can-do" outlook and learning to deal with real life situations like an adult.

I know I sound like Tom Cruise!

 

I too come from the " for crying out loud, just suck it up" camp. I also have a close family member with enormous emotional regulation issues and serious cognitive distortions. It's the way she is wired and it is teaching me that for some, the option of sucking it up, does not exist. If all it took was a companion animal to balance the emotional hemorrage, I would buy her two.

[FinelyCruising]

Drew let's see.....nope....still no wash....this thread, if I may be so bold as to summarize to my own liking...is about displayed degree of need. Now I know you think its nobody's business as long as certain tests are passed. But here I am again with my limited point of view thinking and saying cheaters cheapen it for those who have a clear, stong and obvious need. Probably there is such a wide delta between a displayed obvious need that people can assemble as reasonable, and a need that can't be measured by the first glimpse of the eye. I guess there too there is a gray area that is suspect and that is what seems to be coming out here in this thread. So far, most everything I have read makes sense and I am enlightened.

[wvufan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvufan

Sure, there may occasionally be someone who fakes the need, but I would hate to impose restrictions that might exclude a person with a legitimate need. [previous comment was quoted in subsequent post by Drew].

 

 

Written by Drew: "It is not OUR place to decide what constitutes "need". If a patient has satisfied his/her doctor as well as the cruise line, that's all I care to know. Whether or not the rest of us think that the service animal is necessary is, frankly, completely and totally 100% irrelevant!

 

"And how rude would it be if I were to see somebody taking, say, an aspirin, and I were to then launch into a diatribe about how I think they don't really NEED that aspirin or how in the good old days, we toughed it out and did without aspirin? Really, why don't people mind their own business!"

 

Drew, I am offended that you would quote part of my post and then go into your rant. By doing so, you implied that I said WE should be deciding what constitutes "need." I did no such thing and do not want your comment to result in folks associating that attitude with me.

 

You seem to be quite on the defensive and pounced on me without actually reading what I wrote. I clearly stated that there may occasionally be someone who FAKED a need. Earlier posts by others referred to situations where a person might badger their doctor into certifying a need that wasn't there or otherwise abuse the intent and spirit of assistance animals. My point was that we should not make any attempt to restrict such animals or judge their users because to do so would unfairly penalize those who have legitimately met the criteria for having them.

 

OOOEEE:D :D Bob and Phyl

[rebeccalouise]

I do think that was what the debate was about here. Therapy dogs are a new thing to most of us. In fact, since reading this thread I have discovered that many therapy cats are now on airplanes.

 

I think people have to recognize why this would be easy to violate in the future and why people would choose to violate the use of therapy dogs. I know one woman who did just such a thing and as far as I know does it routinely. she has a house in Seattle and another in Italy. Since she spend six months out of the year in Italy, her doctor has written a perscription for her "therapy" dog to accompany her on the plane. She is not depressed- never has been. She just wants to take her dog to Italy with her and have the dog on her lap.

 

So for those that don't see this as an issue, I disagree. Not only is it unfair to allow select passengers to travel with their animals- it would be horrible to have a plane full of cats and dogs- all needing to eliminate from time to time. Yuck! It is bad enough flying long distance as it is. One animal would be a novelty- a plane full would be gross.

 

Same goes for cruises. That's why it shouldn't be violated. From what I have read on this site- the woman with the dog was not legit. I know this is America and everyone is innocent until proven guilty, blah, blah, blah.

[Host Walt]

I'm jumping in here because it's necessary for folks to understand the substance of the issue, not the appearance.

 

As with the never ending handicap parking issue, outrage is expressed when an outwardly appearing fully functioning person parks in a H/C spot and walks into a store. The observer likely has no idea whether the person has an infirmity or is a callous jerk, so assumes the worst.

 

Same here. Service animals are used in an ever expanding list of circumstances, most of which most of us are unqualified to evaluate.

 

Back to the H/C parking question. That 180 pound fit looking man with a bounce in his step that just parked in a H/C place might be on his way into the store to help his disabled wife who may not be able to function at all without her husband back to the vehicle.

 

That cute Chihuahua you see on board with that lady may be the one thing that creates the emotional balance for the owner, who, finally, has been able to enjoy what the rest of us take for granted.

 

Remember the old Indian saying, "Before I condemn a brother, let me walk in his moccasins for 3 months."

[JEDMELK]

OK, so I have not read every single post on this thread but I did read most and now believe that it is my turn on the podium. After all, I was on this cruise and did indeed see Saltana a few times.

 

I must admit that the first time I heard this was a "Service Dog", my cynnical, skeptical and many times obnoxious side came out and I said to myself "servicing what?". To go a step further, since I never did speak with Shannon and after reading some of the posts from my fellow passengers (that I did spend some time with) I believe that is/was my loss.

 

From all accounts and from what I observed yes, I do remain skeptical BUT the bottom line is all of her paperwork was in order and it was good enough for X. Since it is their ship, it is their rules and as we are all aware we must live by that.

 

Unfortunately, most of us think of "Service Animals" as that great friendly Labrador or some other larger breed of dog. Well my fellow humans, times have changed and this is the world we live in--- like it or not. There are many people that suffer from diseases or afflictions and by outward appearance or action, you would never know it. Yes, I agree that there is always somebody out there that will try to "get away with something" but I am fairly confident that is actually a minority. However, if you speak to enough people, you will always find somebody that knows somebody, etc. Most people would never realize that I too suffer from at least 2 afflictions; I am too darn fat (my own fault) and I was not born independently wealthy, leaving me with absolutely no choice other than the fact that I must work for a living. But you know something, that just is not so bad. I still get to wake up every morning (that right there is a winning thing in my estimation) and do something that I like to do with a boss and a client base that appreciates what I do for them. It affords me a great lifestyle, I get to do lots of things that I enjoy without really having to think twice and I get to cruise each year.

 

You can all debate this pretty much forever but I did not see or hear of anyone having any health issues aboard this cruise because of Saltana. I would like to believe that if such a problem or issue arose, a solution would have been found. After all, X basically runs a service business and although it seems that their main office customer service can leave a bit to be desired, I do not recall hearing that about their shipboard personnel.

 

Now for my bottom line comment....... People, get on with your lives and find some worthwhile issue. I can not believe that each and every one of you has not done something at some time in your life that would be able to generate a discussion about you "getting away with something"--- maybe drive 2 miles per hour over a speed limit, go through that yellow light instead of stopping, telling that little white lie? Some things are trivial to us but important to others and that is what makes us unique.

Sorry, but I needed to vent! -- thanks for listening

[Hebe]

I personally find it "inconvenient" when my pathway is blocked or I get crowded in an elevator by a person in a wheelchair, but that person has EVERY RIGHT TO BE THERE. My convenience does not supersede their right.

 

Drew B

As someone who travels with someone in a wheelchair, I am offended by your comment. If the person could change the situation, they would gladly exchange positions. You really never know what it is like have people jump in front of you into an elevator - even though you been there first, stop in the middle of a path just to talk with friends while you are trying to get by - take the first seats on the bus - when you are justing to get on the bus. So sorry you are crowded in the elevator - have you considered the stairs.

 

Sorry to be so negative, but traveling is so hard already -- we now have to fight for the handicap rooms by people who like to book them cause they are larger.

[madelinerose]

I would welcome that day and DH and I would be the first to book. ;)

 

 

.... that doesn't mean I wouldn't care if there were dozens of therapy dogs on a ship. I hope that day never comes!