Concentration Camps

[jakzak]

Will be traveling next year on the Constellation and was wondering if anyone had any info on tours to the concentration camps. It is our first time in Europe and I feel it would be very educational for the children to see what they have only read about.

 

Please let me know.

 

Alan

[juliejoe]

When researching the ports for our Baltics cruise this year, I came across the fact that Stutthof, one of the Nazi death camps from WWII is located in the area of Gdansk, Poland. I did not see any mention of an excursion to visit Stutthof. You can do a google search and find a bit of information about it on the internet. The only way we could figure to go there would have been to hire taxi - or find a private guide for the area. Based on the information I found about this port, we decided to take a shore excursion offered by the cruise line. We are big fans of touring on our own and do so often, but felt that it was not the best way for us to see Gdansk.

 

Enjoy your planning for next year - you'll find an abundance of information here on the Baltics board. There is a thread you might want to check out - probably page 2 by now - titled Baltics Cruise Reviews.

 

Julie

[celem]

Given your interest, make sure that you visit the Resistance Museum in Riga, Latvia. My wife and I both thought that it was fascinating. The residents of Riga suffered under both Hitler and Stalin. The museum was very well done with English included in all displays, many artifacts, photos, etc. It even had a recreation of a gulag. I don’t know who was worse, Hitler or Stalin.

[Globaliser]

One idea that might help you: If you come across something potentially feasible like juliejoe's suggestion, one thing to do is just rent a car for the day and drive yourself there. It's something I frequently suggest to members who want to see Berlin from ports like Rostock, even though the ship offers a tour - you have much more control over your day and you can usually get there and back much faster than any ship's tour.

[Longin2cruise]

I'm not trying to be a "wet blanket", but I'm wondering how old your children are. I've been to 2 different concentration camps and even after all these years, the atmosphere is so thick with evil that it was quite disturbing. That may sound crazy, but seeing those ovens, very graphic pictures, the children's art work and other displays was very unsettling. I do not intend to discourage you from taking your children, but just wanted to let you know that the camps are X-rated for violence & inhumanity.

[Jane110]

JulieJoe,

 

I wish I had seen your post before our June Baltic cruise on Princess. I would have liked to have visited the death camp near Gdansk.

 

I'm disappointed that Princess made no mention of this in any of their port information literature. Shame on them for not mentioning it anywhere.

[CruisePlease416]

We did not go to any concentration camps. My father-in-law was in three of them, not as a tourist, and after going thru the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C., I did not think we would handle it well. We did go to the Resistance Museum in Copenhagen, which was wonderful. They offer a free guided tour in English and explain how the people of Denmark helped as many as they could. We later rented a car and drove to Gilleleje, a beautiful drive along the shore. Many people hid in private homes and churches in Gilleleje while waiting for ships to take them to Sweden, which was neutral. The stories we heard there were unbelievable. One of the guides was a child during WWII and remembered the starving refugees coming to his home in southern Denmark begging for food. And we learned so much that we did not know before. Hope this helps. Enjoy your trip.

Bobbie

[Queenk2]

We are going on the connie, next July 1,2006. I am deifnately interested in going to see what I have read and taught! I have contacted an agency to se if they can arrange a tour for us, but if that doesn't work...Globalizer... we will rent a car and go ourselves. Some of the people on our Roll car hace expressed an interest, but for me it is a must. Globalizer...do you have any information about renting a car in Gydania?Has anyone done this...I would love some feedback!

Thank you for any and all information!

Kare Queenk2@aol.com

[JodiBB]

We went to the Resistance Museum in Oslo, Norway inside the Akerhaus Fortress. It was quite something to see. It looks like from the outside like nothing, but it's all underground so the small house that seems to maintain this museum is quite misleading.

[tiggrrr]

JulieJoe,

 

I wish I had seen your post before our June Baltic cruise on Princess. I would have liked to have visited the death camp near Gdansk.

 

I'm disappointed that Princess made no mention of this in any of their port information literature. Shame on them for not mentioning it anywhere.

 

I am suprised by your comments - if you are really interested in visiting these sites, didn't you do some of your own research before you travelled?

 

For those really interested in something so specific then it doesn't take more than a few minutes to find all you need on the internet.

 

http://www.stutthof.pl/en/zwiedzanie.htm

 

http://www.concentrationcampguide.com/

[Queenk2]

I had already done the google and that is why I am going to Stutthoff. If I cannot find a guide I will drive there! Thansk

Karen

[psupam]

Queenk2 - I have information on a tour operator that will take you to Stutthof which is located about an hour and a half from Gdansk. If you would like information contact me by email.

[jodiscruz]

Hi There

I am interested in the tour guide to Stutthof I could not locate your email address..Could you provide me with thatinfo!

Thanks

Jodi

[Queenk2]

Psupam..I tried to E mail, but had no luck! Plese send me the information....Queenk2@aol.com

[mycruz]

We had a private tour company take our group to visit Stuttfhof while in Gdansk this past summer. It worked out really well, it was the same group that had formed from the boards for our St. Petersburg tour with RO. One of our fellow cruisers had found the company by contacting the Polish Embassy in NY. We had a very nice guide and driver. After returning from the camp, we stopped in the city of Gdansk for a tour and quick shopping trip, visited the Solidarity Monument (a must see) and then stopped in Sopot which was very nice. This was probably my favorite port after St. Petersburg.

 

Mary

[Queenk2]

Mary...is there anyway you can E amil me the information about the tour guide? I have contacted a company, but cannot seem to get a response.

Psupam- I cannot E mail you...there is no link! Pleas E mail me!

Karen Queenk2@aol.com

[whenzuc]

i think that your kids would get a lot more out of the Holocast Museum in Washington DC. Having been to Dachau, outside of Munich before, I would not take my kids there, it was too grapghic . Having been to the Camp outside of Berlin this summer from our cruise, there is so little to see, that it is not worth the time away from the Berlin part of your day.

In summary, I see that you live in NJ. The Holocast Museum did a great job of depicting the issues at hand, and did it in such a way that there was a great learning experience for the kids- mine are 15, and found it extremely interesting.

[Queenk2]

I have been to the holocost museum in Washington as well as Yad Vashim<sp?> in Isreal. I am not concerned about the graphic nature of the camp, I am interetsed in seeing so that I won't forget what happened and I can tell my children not to forget!

Karen

[Boo's Mom]

I find it very interesting that Celebrity Cruiseline does not offer a tour to see the Camp @ Stutthof.

 

My research is showing me that there are folks who:

1. Really do not care to go

2. Really want to go

3. Those that are obviously opposed.

 

We are all aware of the horror that unfolded @ this and other camps like it. There simply is no doubt of the evil involved.

 

At this point in history, I view the camp as History. It happened, it was bad, and now it is history.

 

I want to physically lay eyes on the historical site. I want my children to experience seeing one of sites, that they will be learning about very soon.

 

I am wondering if: The cruselines are chosing NOT to provide tours to this site, because they will be making money on tours to this facility which marks an awful place in History....and thus, there would be passengers/potential passengers who looked negatively upon the cruiseline because of how they were making their money.

 

Clearly, where there is a historical place to tour, the cruiseline would be offering tours in order to make money.

 

I would like to note, that I am not Jewish. However, history does show that we all are decendents of the same parents (Adam & Eve)...and therefore, the religion/race/nationality of the people who were murdered do not make any difference in how I view the historical events or the opportunity to tour this facility.

 

Yes, I know people who are physically wearing a Camp tatoo to this day.

 

I respectfully solicit your comments. :)

[Artemis]

Boo's Mom,

 

This thread has fascinated me from the beginning. I see black belt travel researchers and history buffs insistent about taking kids to Stutthof and up in arms over the cruise line's failure to provide a tour. They remind me of me. And I see folks who have visited concentration camps trying to convey that this is a horse of a different color indeed. And they remind of me, too...but only because I've been to a concentration camp. It is one of those rare experiences in life that you can't appreciate until you've done it yourself, and it's very difficult to effectively communicate the experience to others because the way it impacts you is so deeply personal that there are no words to describe the feeling.

 

So...I think after you've visited one, you may have a different idea about cruise group tours and about taking your children. To me, the idea of busloads of camera-toting, gum-smacking cruisers pulling up to concentration camps and going through them with a flag-waving, loud-talking guide is very disturbing. With that said, I realize that group tours of concentration camps do occur, although I think that the majority of them are special interest groups, not just random gatherings of tourists. Specifically in the case of Stutthof, it has at least two limitations from a cruise tour operator's standpoint--it's some travel distance from the port, and the exhibits and films are not in English--not to mention the overarching concern a responsible operator should have about running a tour that is guaranteed to cause emotional distress to all participants of unknown emotional and physical well-being. There is no way to predict the impact a visit will have on any one individual, but I guarantee, a person would have to be emotionally dead for it to have no impact.

 

And that's a good lead-in for the issue of taking children. Of course, children should be exposed to these issues. But a camp visit is so different than a museum visit. Stutthof prohibits children under the age of 13. I agree, that's a reasonable age requirement, and I also agree with the requirement that adults accompany children older than 13.

 

To expose your children to this chapter of history, the earlier suggestion of the holocaust museum in Washington (or in other US cities) is an excellent one if your children haven't visited. Anne Frank's house in Amsterdam is another--perhaps Amsterdam is on your itinerary? And of course, as was also mentioned in this thread, there are excellent resistance museums in most of the Baltic port cities.

[Boo's Mom]

Hi Artemis....

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Which of the camps have you been to?

 

Where did you learn of the age restriction for Stutthof. I haven't seen that anywhere.

 

And..... how funny: black belt travel researcher. :D

[Artemis]

Hi, Boo's Mom,

 

I think we're both black belt researchers and planners, aren't we?!

 

The visitor's information, including children's age limit, is on the Stutthof website. http://www.stutthof.pl/en/main.htm

 

Our concentration camp experience was in central Germany & Austria during land trips. We have traveled quite a bit in Europe, and naturally, everywhere you go, you can visit the places and museums each country has dedicated to the Holocaust and related military conflicts. We did take our children to a concentration camp a couple of years short of 13--but only after they had been to US holocaust museums, including the excellent one in DC, as well as Anne Frank's haus and a number of other European museums and sites of the same type, plus they're both passionate readers and had already read and processed via numerous discussions with us a great deal of the information and emotionally-charged content. As prepared and mature-for-their-age as our children were, they were very disturbed--as we were. I believe the majority of children, and even some adults, are ill-equipped to visit a concentration camp.

[BRUCENLYNN]

I visited Dachau when I was about 13 years old -- and I'm now 50. I can still recall the horror of the place. Yes, it is of great historical relevance but I wonder if it is necessary to subject any child to the evil that took place there for a history lesson. None of us want to forget what happened in the hopes that history will never repeat itself but it robs the innocence of kids. It is extremely difficult for me as an adult to process that people could actually place babies in an oven to be burned to death because some fanatic told them to do so; and as a kid, it was quite disturbing. Every adult should visit a concentration camp because it delivers a message we all need to know. I suppose you could look at from the perspective that kids are exposed to continuous violence/death in the press so why not this as well but I personally think as a parent we should still try to protect our children as much as possible.

Just my opinion which may help someone that is "on the fence" about should they or shouldn't they.

 

Lynn

[Boo's Mom]

FYI:

 

For Stutthoff, children under the age of 13 are not permitted.

This is found on their website.