How fresh is 'fresh food' on board?

[tom_uk]

I don't have an axe to grind here, I'm just wondering.

 

I wasn't aware that Celebrity (or any cruise line for that matter) actually buy food during a voyage - my assumption is that they stock up at the beginning of the voyage and a lot of things get put into the cold store for the duration. They are then brought out and thawed/used when needed. So by the end of a cruise (especially a 12 or 14-night cruise) pretty much everything you're eating will be from the freezer and thus not strictly 'fresh'. I understand that the reasons for this are all to do with both budgetary and quality control.

 

But as I say that's just my assumption. Is there someone who actually knows who can comment?

[dforeigner]

I don't have an axe to grind here, I'm just wondering.

 

I wasn't aware that Celebrity (or any cruise line for that matter) actually buy food during a voyage - my assumption is that they stock up at the beginning of the voyage and a lot of things get put into the cold store for the duration. They are then brought out and thawed/used when needed. So by the end of a cruise (especially a 12 or 14-night cruise) pretty much everything you're eating will be from the freezer and thus not strictly 'fresh'. I understand that the reasons for this are all to do with both budgetary and quality control.

 

But as I say that's just my assumption. Is there someone who actually knows who can comment?

 

Depending of the sailing itinerary, some of the seafood may actually be frozen. Most of the juices are from concentrate (frozen). The same may go for some of the cuts of beef.

[dforeigner]

You may want to read this post:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=499722

[tom_uk]

You may want to read this post:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=499722

 

It was in fact that thread that prompted my enquiry. The point is, I don't actually know how much food is 'fresh' and how much is out of the freezer. (My definition of 'fresh' is basically food that has not been frozen, packaged or prepared.)

 

I haven't got a problem with food out of the freezer, but it would be interesting to know how much of the food we eat on a cruise is supplied 'fresh' - perhaps from local suppliers each day (if any is....) - and how much has been stored on-board since the beginning of the voyage.

 

It's not just things like the meats or seafood. What about the fruit & vegetables? Or bread/pizza bases - do they freeze & thaw, or do they bake bread? etc, etc....

[rebeccalouise]

I did a 14 night TA cruise out of Ft. Lauderdale and the food was wonderful- whether it was "fresh" or frozen- I was impressed.

[patval]

Good Morning or day to all on CC!

Well I felt I needed to add my two cents here how I am a classically trained and also school trained (Johnson and Wales University) Chef for over 12 years and an Economics to throw you out in left field!

Over the past 5 years what we refer to as commodity items in the food industry have come a long and I mean a long way anytime before I would say 1998 it would be 100 times better to make it yourself but not today in many different items but not all.

What I mean is things bread have come a long way you can buy now frozen artisan breads that are actually a great product you can get just plain old rustic all the way to roasted garlic and rosemary and caramelized onion and garlic focaccia. Soups is another way things have come along especially now they are making gourmet soups and the only down fall they usually don’t add too much meat but customer meaning a restaurant or ship can add more of that ingredient in but look at Campbell Soups with their signature line. My point is this is not a bad thing initially but could be very good. Desserts is a huge thing as well that has come along way because you can actually buy signature desserts or high end restaurant desserts in bulk and have a wonderful flavor to them and even souffles are being offered now too just pop it in the oven for 10 to 15 minutes and a wonderful chocolate souffle.

I think what RCCL is doing is what restaurant's need to do to survive over everything else and that is consistency and you read everyday people say one ship the soup sucked and then on another the best soup on earth so RCCL is trying to bring some stuff in pre done or pretty close to it so they can have a consistent quality product to offer to their customers.

Paul

[patval]

I forgot to mention vegetables as well look on the Food Network now a days you will see them using allot of frozen vegetables and fruit why because they are actually better then the fresh stuff because they are picked at the peak of season and then rushed to the factory and processed and then IQF meaning Individually Quick Frozen and this perserves them at the peak flavor they have for at least 6 months. Go out to the store and buy Bird Eye Vegetables and you tell me which is better the labor of doing it yourself or buying frozen and had some S&P butter and a little water and 5 minutes great veggies.

 

 

Paul

[hajekfam]

It was in fact that thread that prompted my enquiry. The point is, I don't actually know how much food is 'fresh' and how much is out of the freezer. (My definition of 'fresh' is basically food that has not been frozen, packaged or prepared.)

 

I haven't got a problem with food out of the freezer, but it would be interesting to know how much of the food we eat on a cruise is supplied 'fresh' - perhaps from local suppliers each day (if any is....) - and how much has been stored on-board since the beginning of the voyage.

 

It's not just things like the meats or seafood. What about the fruit & vegetables? Or bread/pizza bases - do they freeze & thaw, or do they bake bread? etc, etc....

I have seen them load fresh fruit while in port.

As far as bread, on one of our galley tours we saw them baking bread - dumping flour in the big mixer so I know that bread was done from scratch. Also, all the ice cream with the exception of sugar free is also made on board.

[Leela]

My table on Zenith last May in Bermuda was told by our Asst. Maitre d'Hotel that the lobster tails are frozen.

[Leela]

My table on Zenith last May in Bermuda was told by our Asst. Maitre d'Hotel that the lobster tails are frozen.

[Ephraim]

Could you really imagine trying to keep all those lobsters alive at sea?

 

Actually, most of the lobster that I have seen on cruises isn't "Maine" lobster at all. Cuban (Caribbean) lobster and South-East Asian lobster is usually what I see them serving.

 

Eggs are usually actually egg product, they are easier to store and use, plus you don't have to crack them. Add to that the fact that they don't discolour when they touch metal or in the heating trays. Poached eggs are usually prepared ahead of time and dunked in hot water to warm, which may explain why they are often cold in the centre.

 

I was actually surprised by the amount of prepackaged food that I saw on a galley tour. "Old fashioned chocolate sauce" was the one that really surprised me. It's so easy to make a good quality chocolate sauce.

 

There are some good prepackaged products and there are some that are horrible. Take Campbell's Chicken Broth.... you might be in for quite a shock if you read some of the ingredients on the package, especially considering that chicken broth is one of the ingredients and not the only one.

 

Pay attention and you will get to see some of the lapses that give you a hint to the short cuts that are being done. It's rather easy to make a good home made salsa and yet I have seen Princess serve both nachos and salsa that was clearly purchased at Costco.

 

Pay attention to items like special occasion cakes. Are they fresh or do they look like they came from Costco? Those kind of cakes are usually institutional and purchased frozen.

 

There are items that change texture once they have been frozen. For me, bread is one of them. Also certain flavours are lost, they don't hold up well to the freezing process.

 

And then there is the HORRIBLE, like cheap ice cream. Cheap ice cream is not only puffed full of a lot of air (weigh it, you will see that the same volume of ice cream can weigh more in premium brands) but also they add solidifiers and carrageen to them. To be honest, the carrageen is a natural product (seaweed,) but the solidifiers can be anything including latex plastics. It's pretty easy to tell if ice cream is homemade or premium... does it melt and how quickly? If it melts quickly, it's homemade or premium. (Compare it to a McDonald's Shake which is full of solidifiers and melts very slowly).

 

Are the meat portions uniform? If they are, they are likely industrial frozen portions.

 

We have a restaurant on the corner of our street. It used to be run by a nice couple from Brittany. They made all the sauces by hand, prepared the soup daily, but served commercial cakes. It was sold and the next gentleman keep with the same cakes but went to commercial prepared sauces and within 2 weeks the clientèle was gone. It was clear to us in the taste of the food that it was no longer the product of a chef, it was the product of a cook.

 

Frozen vegetables are fine for the most part. It would be nice to see the cruise lines taking in fresh fruit and vegetables when they travel to southern ports. In many countries in the south they have learnt to buy their fruits and vegetables for the taste instead of their aesthetic. If I never eat another El Santa Strawberry, it will be too early. Tasteless, but great if you want to bounce them and ship them.

 

On the other hand, you have to expect some cutting of corners. It can't be easy to serve 1500-2000 people every two hours or so. It's a large catering job, doing it every day, for months on end. Much easier if it's the same things over and over again each week.

[Druke I]

I can't speak for Celebrity, but I know that Princess has fresh foodstuffs prepositioned at several ports, and often replenishes on voyages.

 

Way back in 4-97, on Sky Princess, Osaka to Vancouver, several containers of food did not make it to the pier on time. We ran out of most veggies and some dairy products between Vladivostock and the Aleutians. At Dutch Harbor, a scheduled stop, members of the Purser's Staff and kitchen (galley) staff "raided" the local grocery store, and literally cleaned it out.

 

We often have seen lots of fresh produce being loaded in ports of call, along with other foodstuffs.

 

When QM2 was in San Francisco earlier this month, the SF Chron reported some 150tons of food etc being loaded aboard!

[tom_uk]

I can't speak for Celebrity, but I know that Princess has fresh foodstuffs prepositioned at several ports, and often replenishes on voyages.

 

Way back in 4-97, on Sky Princess, Osaka to Vancouver, several containers of food did not make it to the pier on time. We ran out of most veggies and some dairy products between Vladivostock and the Aleutians. At Dutch Harbor, a scheduled stop, members of the Purser's Staff and kitchen (galley) staff "raided" the local grocery store, and literally cleaned it out.

 

We often have seen lots of fresh produce being loaded in ports of call, along with other foodstuffs.

 

When QM2 was in San Francisco earlier this month, the SF Chron reported some 150tons of food etc being loaded aboard!

 

Thanks for the comments. As regards QM2, don't forget that she was on a world cruise, and won't be back at Southampton until April (I think). In that instance she has to replenish during the voyage.

[tom_uk]

Thanks to everyone for their comments. There are a mix of views, including suggestions that (at least at major ports) it is possible for a ship to be replenished; but also that there is a lot of pre-prepared food used. I have no inside knowledge on any of this. However thinking about last year's 'Best of the Med' cruise on Galaxy, there were quite lengthy periods when, either because of the smallness & remoteness of the ports (eg, Mykonos and Santorini), or the fact that we were at sea, it wouldn't have been possible to replenish.

 

I think that one of the things I was trying to tease out was the impact of no longer having Michel Roux's name on the menus. There was another thread and someone in it suggested that M. Roux 'always insisted on fresh ingredients', or words to that effect. From the comments on this thread it would seem that 'fresh' is relative, and will not be the same as when the chef is cooking for a few hundred (max) in a restaurant in a city which has good produce markets. So I don't think that losing M. Roux's name will affect the quality of the cuisine much. I think that much of the on-board culinary process is governed by the nature of the environment, rather than the name of chef. And I suspect that the other prime determinant of quality is the 'per head' budget that the cruiseline allows for meals.

[Leela]

Could you really imagine trying to keep all those lobsters alive at sea?

That's exactly what the Asst. Maitre d. said :) I had always figured it

was frozen, and when one of the ladies at our table was speculating I

told her it had to be frozen. She didn't believe me so when the AMD came

by we asked.

 

Actually, most of the lobster that I have seen on cruises isn't "Maine" lobster at all. Cuban (Caribbean) lobster and South-East Asian lobster is usually what I see them serving.

That explains the small size of the tails. It takes a long time in cold water

for lobsters to get big (assuming they are of the types that can get big,

of course).

 

It's pretty easy to tell if ice cream is homemade or premium... does it melt and how quickly? If it melts quickly, it's homemade or premium.

The waiters say the ice cream is made fresh every day on board the ship, and it does melt very quickly.

 

Are the meat portions uniform? If they are, they are likely industrial frozen portions.

As a side comment, I read somewhere that there's a town in some place like Iowa whose entire beef production goes directly to Carnival.

 

Personally, I think beef freezes better than some other meats, which probably explains why I prefer the beef dishes on Celebrity. I find them to be consistently quite enjoyable.

 

Frozen vegetables are fine for the most part.

Especially if they are made into soups and puree'd. There are creamy vegetable soups on Celebrity at most lunches and/or dinners.

 

It can't be easy to serve 1500-2000 people every two hours or so. It's a large catering job, doing it every day, for months on end. Much easier if it's the same things over and over again each week.

That's for sure!

[Leela]

double post

[aaerobear]

It will come as a suprise to some, but not many, that most of the food served on the major cruise lines (RCCL,NCL,CCL,PCL,HAL,X) comes from the US. It is shipped in large ocean going containers to the major provisioning ports that the cruise lines have set up for their cruises.

 

There are many many pre-prepared items in those shipments. It would be impossible to have 100% totally fresh foods made or prepared onboard. The logistics would be a nightmare.

 

If there are any other folks online that are in the Hotel/Hospitality industry you can verify what I am saying. Most of Princess provisions are shipped from LA, while HAL ships from Seattle, Carnival from Miami, etc.

 

The next time you are in a provisioning port (not necessarily the turnaround port) take a look at all those trucks waiting to disgorge all the provisions and you will see tons and tons of things you think are local, but actually from the states. There will also be several containers of frozen foods (not all meat) that they are loading. Sometimes it takes almost the whole time in port to fill the ships galley and storage areas.

[Liat]

When we cruised from Baltimore to Rome on Galaxy in May 2004, we admired the strawberries just ripening around Funchal, Azore Islands, on our first stop. We were therefore delighted to see many boxes of local strawberries being loaded on the ship when we returned that afternoon. Of course we do not know if Celebrity had arranged that in advance. or whether the Executive Chef had the authority to take advantage of the opportunity. But either way, it was nice to have very fresh fruit.

[woodofpine]

As a youngster I was a cooking enthusiast. Around 1970 Time:Life put out a series of books on various national cuisines. I had the book on France (and a few others) which featured a chapter on the galleys and haute cuisine of the SS France (circa '65; later Norway). It was amazing. I'm sure that a professional cruiseline chef could chronical the changes in ship board galley management over the years.

 

Food preservation technology has improved so much over the years as have high end restaurant service prepared foods. I read an article a year or two ago about the fairly extraordinary lengths that many larger nationally famous five star restaurants have gone to - to conceal the fact that they serve prepared restaurant purchased items (things like lobster ravioli).

 

If it passes the 'taste test' who's to diss it!

[ali-ali-oh]

When we sailed with P&O the other year, we were invited onto the officers table and I was sat next to the food and beverages officer. He told me that huge containers were shipped from Britain all over the world as there were many things that the British pax expected to see like Bran Flakes and HP Sauce which could not be obtained easily overseas.

 

We are doing a 15 night TA, so I hope that they have plenty of frozen fish/meat etc as there aren't that many shops in the middle of the Atlantic :) .

[dmk]

When we sailed with P&O the other year, we were invited onto the officers table and I was sat next to the food and beverages officer. He told me that huge containers were shipped from Britain all over the world as there were many things that the British pax expected to see like Bran Flakes and HP Sauce which could not be obtained easily overseas.

 

We are doing a 15 night TA, so I hope that they have plenty of frozen fish/meat etc as there aren't that many shops in the middle of the Atlantic :) .

 

On a TA, they have a proper English Breakfast on one side of the Buffet line.

[flagger]

The food on board on Celebrity is always provisioned from the USA due to USDA regulations and to be able to consistently provide foodstuffs to be loaded. Pineapples in Hawaii are flown in from California. Meat in Argentina comes from Miami. Which is a shame because Argentinian beef is a delight.

 

The M-Class ships have stores for two weeks though some of the "fresh" fruits are really overripe come the end of a two week journey.

[Rev22:17]

tom_uk,

 

I don't have an axe to grind here, I'm just wondering.

 

I wasn't aware that Celebrity (or any cruise line for that matter) actually buy food during a voyage - my assumption is that they stock up at the beginning of the voyage and a lot of things get put into the cold store for the duration. They are then brought out and thawed/used when needed. So by the end of a cruise (especially a 12 or 14-night cruise) pretty much everything you're eating will be from the freezer and thus not strictly 'fresh'. I understand that the reasons for this are all to do with both budgetary and quality control.

 

But as I say that's just my assumption. Is there someone who actually knows who can comment?

 

Bad assumption. I have seen ships loading supplies, including fresh food, during ports of call. They usually try to do it at times when the greatest number of passengers going ashore are away from the ship to minimize interference with passengers coming and going on the pier. Most ships try to take on fresh foods at least every three or four days, except when they are at sea for longer periods. It's really no more difficult for them to load smaller quantities more frequently than to load larger quantities less frequently, so long as the provisions are readily available in the ports where they are calling.

 

Norm.

[Ephraim]

The food on board on Celebrity is always provisioned from the USA due to USDA regulations and to be able to consistently provide foodstuffs to be loaded.

 

What would Celebrity have to do with USDA regulations? They aren't in the US. They aren't flagged US. And their foodstuffs aren't allowed from the ship into the US.

 

There are lots of examples of foodstuff being exported only to import from another country. Argentina exports it's beef because it's worth more to export it. Israel exports the best of it's fruits and vegetables. Europe exports produce so that it can control prices (they gave Egypt an enormous amount of butter for free on condition that it never come back.) It's not that unusual.

 

Hawaii is not able to be self sufficient. The land is too expensive for crops like pineapples that take 2 years to grow. They grow pineapples mostly for show now. The land is more productive for growing expensive crops like macadamia nuts and coffee... and of course condos and resorts.

 

Oh, to have a ship full of Spanish produce. The Spanish grow their food for taste and not for appearance. I can still remember the taste of peaches in Europe from 20 years ago. They were so large and juicy. In Germany they were selling Asparagus that was the size of large carrots (or baby's arms).

[flagger]

What would Celebrity have to do with USDA regulations? They aren't in the US. They aren't flagged US. And their foodstuffs aren't allowed from the ship into the US.

They call on US ports though. The dairy products HAVE to be pasteurized.

 

Also most Americans are used to US grain fed beef. Grass fed Argentine beef would taste "funny" to them. Also they are used to corn syrup flavoured Coke and not that using Cane Sugar.

 

You have to have a reliable provider when dealing with the amount of food ships are dealing with. Even the Med cruises are provisioned from the US.