Cruising with a 2 yrd old-bad idea?

[halos]

[quote name='mnhenderson']I beg to differ...My son was night and day dry at 18 months.2 overnight accidents since then and he is almost 9 now.Both of thise accidents were my fault.I could not get him to wake up after a late night out.
[/QUOTE]


Liv,
I have to agree with this poster. A fully trained 2 year old may be rare but it does happen...and not because the parents trained them. Kids that 'potty train' this young actually do it themselves. My oldest was waking up from a 12 hour sleep (both my girls were great sleepers as well), totally dry at 18 months of age. You'd think I was not giving her enough liquid or something...it actually made me nervous at first...but she wasn't being dehydrated LOL! She stopped wetting her diaper on her own. I took full advantage of this situation and she was out of diapers totally before the age of 2 and never had an accident...never. Of course, I took full credit for this and thought I was Super-Mom!!! :D
Then...my younger one was three before being trained and I snapped out of the Super-Mom thing real quick..... :eek:

[mnhenderson]

Hi Halos! I got really lucky. I have a day care in my home and at about 16 months I was potty training a couple of 2 year olds.My little guy wanted to be just like the big kids and go potty,so I said why not? He wa sall done by 18 months.I have never had a child in my care go past 2 1/2 (except a few accidents) without being potty trained.Strange skill to have,but I am good at the whole potty thing. :) I figure thats just one less diaper to change. ;) Mariann

[triplelutz]

I'm so not a tough cookie! :) Maybe that's why it bothers me when the anti-kids stuff starts, it's not the kids so much, it's the poor parenting. Lash out a poor parents, and I'll agree. Calling kids the spawn of satan and anklebiters or whatever other names should be reserved for those perfect parents.

As far as my toddler in the pool - not once did she get in there. She's not potty-trained, so we didn't ever offer it as a option. I know this, so I knew that laying out around the pool wasn't an option for me. Sitting at dinner wasn't a trial for her - she ate fruit and bread while waiting for our meals to come, she sat in the window and looked outside, we took a walk around the dinning room, I was fully prepared to remove her if need be, but she was fine. As a matter of fact, she was far less disruptive than the table behind us - they came in 30 to 45 minutes late every night and well on their way to being obnoxiously drunk. It all comes down to personal responsibility.

I do realize that she's not going to remember a thing about our vacations, but her big sister does. I can't sit at home and do nothing because that's so not fair to my oldest. I can admit that I don't want to leave them, especially the little one - if you'd gone through the infertility and loss that I have, then you'd be wanting to keep your miracle close to you too! I did leave them for the weekend and DH & I went to Las Vegas - I felt like I was missing my right arm or something! It was fun to be a grown-up for a bit, but I just couldn't do it for a week. Maybe when the little one is a bit older...

I think maybe you folks are preaching to the choir here, we're not the
parents of the unruly ones... For my family, a cruise is a great vacation - it suits our needs and wants in a vacation. I'm sorry for those that feel otherwise, I don't mean to ruin your vacation - I'm having a great time with my kids and DH, but I do keep your feelings in mind.

Okay, now I've got to run - the little one needs a clean diaper and the big one needs to get to camp! :)

[aholley1061]

I did this once. BIG MISTAKE. My daughter is now 6 and I would not consider taking her on a cruise. Camp Carnival was great but my daughter did not like staying with strangers. There was no one there she knew unlike her day care where she knew everybody. Nights were the worst. She wanted to go home, even though her entire family including grandmother and sisters were with us. We wanted to make this a nice relaxing family trip. It turned out to be everything but. I'm glad we only cruised for 4 days. The only good thing I have to say is she was an angel the entire day in Cozumel.:eek:

[Guest Time2gocruzn]

[b]Hey venture man:[/b]

[b]Quote your earlier post about your "friends" vacation: [/b]

[b][i]"She said she was 'stuck' with all the care of the children, meaning, she never got to finish a nice dinner, see shows, enjoy the dress-up nights, or go into port for long.[/b][/i]
[i][b]Her husband on the other hand had the time of his life. He did all those things with other family that did not have children to worry about."[/i][/b]

[b]Sounds like your friend should have pulled his head out of his butt and helped his wife a little more so they could have BOTH enjoyed their vacation. IMHO, the reason the vacation wasn't fun for her, was NOT because they brought their child. Sounds like it was due to the fact that the man was too busy running around with his friends when he should have been a little more concerned if the rest of his family was having a good time! If he would have been more considerate of his family's needs, they all would have had a chance to enjoy the fun stuff. [/b]
[b]What was it you all said earlier, just because you are on vacation, you shouldn't take a vacation from being a parent? BUT I suppose helping your wife with children is what you would consider a "girly man" thing to do. [/b]

[halos]

[quote name='mnhenderson']Hi Halos! I got really lucky. I have a day care in my home and at about 16 months I was potty training a couple of 2 year olds.My little guy wanted to be just like the big kids and go potty,so I said why not? He wa sall done by 18 months.I have never had a child in my care go past 2 1/2 (except a few accidents) without being potty trained.Strange skill to have,but I am good at the whole potty thing. :) I figure thats just one less diaper to change. ;) Mariann[/QUOTE]



There you go! You are the super-mom I [I]thought[/I] I was!!! LOL!!! I should have sent my youngest over to your house!! :D
Sometimes it's great when the little ones want to be just like the big kids!!
Obviously, having a Day Care in your home (Bless you) means you are a [U]very[/U] patient woman!!! I hope to be in the next life!!! Patience with kids is not one of my virtues...LOL, just ask mine!!

[VentureMan_2000]

djkLove,

[b][i]You wrote: "Sounds like your friend should have pulled his head out of his butt and helped his wife a little more so they could have BOTH enjoyed their vacation. IMHO, the reason the vacation wasn't fun for her, was NOT because they brought their child."[/i][/b]

You are correct. He should have... should have shared in the misery. The fact is, had they not brought their 2 year old on the cruise, they both would have had a great time with no incumberances. The misery 'thing' was do to the child being on the cruise and the limitations this put on the parents.

I take it you would feel it is unjust that only one parent got stuck being miserable when they could have share the misery more equitably. Especially that the mother ended up by herself.

I agree, it wasn't fair or even right for the husband to go off. But then again, he's not a Girlie Man.

[halos]

[quote name='triplelutz']I'm so not a tough cookie! :) Maybe that's why it bothers me when the anti-kids stuff starts, it's not the kids so much, it's the poor parenting. Lash out a poor parents, and I'll agree. Calling kids the spawn of satan and anklebiters or whatever other names should be reserved for those perfect parents.
[/QUOTE]

I guess I don't understand why it bothers you so much. I have 2 kids that I love with all my heart and when others call children 'Spawns of Satan', it doesn't offend me at all....why, I don't know. Maybe just because I know my kids are good and that there ARE some nasty kids out there who are being raised by emotionally/mentally ill equipped parents who don't know the meaning of the word 'parent'...so I understand that the description does indeed, sadly, fit a lot of kids and their parents.
The OP herself in another hot topic thread she started ([COLOR=DarkRed]hmmmm, makes you wonder if we have all be schnookered here[/COLOR]) stated that her son would in NO way wear a suit...he is 11. Parenting???? Not.
Guess how that will turn out in later years. If your kid won't listen to you at 11 about what is proper to wear...then when they are a teenager and big issues come up, you don't stand a chance.
Yeah...you're right, poor parenting is to blame. Unfortunately when these poor parents vacation on the same ship as other people, who suffers??

[halos]

[quote name='VentureMan_2000'].
I agree, it wasn't fair or even right for the husband to go off. But then again, he's not a Girlie Man.[/QUOTE]


Venture, you make it sound as if you haven't evolved from walking on 4 limbs. :rolleyes:

[Guest Time2gocruzn]

[b]Your right. It would have been a differnt vacation for them both if they had left the child behind, but they didn't. SO, I do think they should have shared the responsibilities of the child. Not the MISERY of taking care of a child, as you call it, but the responsibility you have when you are a parent, MALE OR FEMALE. You can't just run off like a 'jack-ass-man' and say I told you we shouldn't have brought her. If the responsibilities were shared more equally, everyone would have been more happy. I think most hubbies find they are more happy when their wife is happy. I don't understand what your point is. You think it is okay for one parent to have a bad vacation, just because their spouse won't help out? IF this was my family, I wouldn't want either of us to have a bad time, neither would my husband. No matter if it is the man or the woman, nobody shoud have to be left out. To me that is what being a parent and a family is about. Working together to make things better for all of us. You sound like a real sensitive kind of guy. You can understand that right? Life is not about leaving your children or spouse behind just so you can have a better time. I have to say, if you think being sensitive to your families needs makes a girly man, fine you think that. Do you have a wife? I'd like to hear what happens if you told her that! I think most woman would prefer the caring type of man, rather that the kind that has to be a jerk to prove his "manhood". You know what they say. The man who has something to prove is usually compensating for other things. lol![/b]

[VentureMan_2000]

Sorry. Just having fun. Arnold S. just revived this a couple weeks ago. I remember the skit on Saturday Night Live. Thought it to be very funny. I don't know why it bothers folks so much.

In any case, I will stick to my guns that cruises are meant for adults, not children. If you bring children on a vacation, the vacation becomes about the children and is in no way, shape, or form an adult vacation. It's the parents that bring their children and attempt to make it an adult vacation by 'dumping' the kids at camp carnie, or letting them run rampet that give rise to the anti-child attitude on cruises.

I've been coaching Little League for many years, been a Swim Meet Director for many years, and a Scout Leader for many years. And I've never ceast to be amazed at the 'dumping' of kids into my hands. Parents never seem to pick their kids up on time, and at the swim meets, there are a lot of bratty unsupervised kids -- and the parents are right there.

I am very active in my childrens lives at all levels: school, sports, vacations, and such. I know I do more with my children (and other people's children for that matter) than most parents.

So to say that a cruise where they serve cocktails galor, gamble, smoke, have late night shows, extravegant dinners, and more cocktails is for children, I answer with a resolute NO!

[VentureMan_2000]

[b][i]"If the responsibilities were shared more equally, everyone would have been more happy."[/i][/b]

[b]'Been more happy' is the same as being a little less miserable. Eight way, you are not as happy as being on a cruise without a 2 year old.[/b]

[b]I'll grant that my friend's husband made the misery worse, but the fact remains that my friend said it was a huge mistake to take a 2 year old on a cruise. She only went on a 4 day cruise. She couldn't imagine what it would have been like on a 7 day cruise.[/b]

[b]My friend is a very good parent (patient), and her son is a very good child (now 10). The fact is, she brought a child on the trip, so the trip, by default, became about the child. In this case, a 2 year old child. You can't dismiss my friend's opinion by ragging about her husband. Her opinion about bringing a 2 year old is based in fact... she's been there, done that, and in hine sight she wouldn't have done it.[/b]

[MrPete]

[quote name='VentureMan_2000'] I will stick to my guns that cruises are meant for adults, not children. If you bring children on a vacation, the vacation becomes about the children and is in no way, shape, or form an adult vacation. [/QUOTE]
That's where my disagreement starts. I respect your opinion in that you go for an adult vacation, and you will end up doing adult things, granted. I am curious how often you end up in the arcade during the week.

I think of cruising as a family thing, which means cruises are meant for children, too, and we will end up steering toward family events. My child is never 50 feet from me on a cruise.

If you want to talk about unruly or rude people, you will find them as kids, teens, adults, and elders. I don't think anyone will argue with you that they would enjoy the pleasure of any of these types.

[Guest Time2gocruzn]

[b]True, I'm sure her opinion is correct. I'm sure her vacation did suck. Personally IMHO it sounds like to me she should have left her husband home. Sounds like the vacation would have turned out the same for her wether he was along or not. I guess wether or not bringing a child along makes a bad vacation, depends on the kind of vacation you are expecting. You can't take a child along and expect to have a couples only cruise. That's a given. BUT you can take a child along to have a family vacation and still have exaclty that. A wonderful family vacation, provided that all the members understand that it is a FAMILY vacation. Sounds like your friend was expecting a couples vacation, or a vacation from being a parent vacation, and got someting way different. So I can understand her opinion. I do think that people who take their kids along, who understand that it is going to be a family vacation, not an every man (or woman) for themselves vacation, will have a wonderful time. It is possible to have a wonderful vacation with your children along, you know.;) [/b]

[VentureMan_2000]

When I have my children with me, they are usually with-in sight, and like you, with-in 50 feet. Unfortunately, this is not the norm for a lot of parents. And $20 of tokens doen't last very long.

I say, bring children on children oriented vacations. Cruises are Adult oriented (Disney would be the exception). Leave them home (with GP) otherwise.

[Guest Time2gocruzn]

[b]Like I said, I guess who your vacation is oriented around, depends on the person, and what kind of vacation you want. I cruise to have a good family vacation. You cruise to have good adult time. I do think both are possible, in the same place. There really is no right or wrong answer. Just because your idea of a vacation is different than people who bring their kids, does not mean your sort of vacation is the ONLY way to go. Obviously the cruise lines disagree with your point of view, and so do I. Nuff said. As far as disney, if I wanted to go see mickey, I would go to Disneyland. I don't need to spend twice as much on my cruise to just to have some stupid mouse around.[/b]

[cruisinqt]

I know "cruises are meant for adults, not children" has been said many times here, but let's face the truth here folks. Any place that offers free child care throughout the day by qualified professionals is going to attract LOTS of families with children. Cruising will always be for children as long as there are kids programs offering free child care with unlimited use of gameboys and arcades to play in. The cruise lines just offer too much for parents to pass up on it. There aren't many places where you can drop off your kids for free knowing they will be painting, having scavenger hunts, playing gameboys and having lots of fun. While you lay out by the pool or hit the casino. It's just too attractive to the parents to pass up.

What really needs to be done here is to accept the fact that kids will always be around on cruises, like it or not. What can be done to make cruises with kids around more enjoyable? One thing that really ticks me off is that cruise lines offer arcades to keep kids happy, busy, and out of the adults "hair." But then they go and charge ONE DOLLAR per game in the arcade. :eek: Who can afford that? No wonder kids are wandering the halls out of boredom. The cruise lines offer arcades and then make it too expensive for the kids to play. How about a QUARTER per game? Or, better yet, FREE? :) The cruise lines attracts all of these families with children with their kids programs. But they don't have enough activities for the older children who can check themselves out of the kids programs. There isn't much to keep kids entertained when they're not in the kids program. LOWERING the prices of the arcade games would be a wise decision.

Scheduling games, parties, and fun entertainment for older kids outside of the childrens program would be a good idea too. I think that if the cruise lines offered more things to do for kids outside of the kids program, there would be fewer kids roaming the halls or playing in the elevators. They either need to pull out of the kids stuff all together or go all the way and do it right. And if the ship is loaded with children, like it often is in the summer time. I think they should put employees in the elevators during peak hours. I have seen nice hotels have elevator operators in their elevators. I would be the first one to throw a tip into their tip jar. It would be a good way for them to earn extra money and kids would not be able to mess with the elevators because there was an employee standing there. I am sure there are ways to make the situation better, those are just some of my ideas. CARNIVAL, are you listening?:confused:

[VentureMan_2000]

Parents whose kids are wondering the halls and playing in the elevators... unsupervised... ARE YOU LISTENING!

[tef43]

[quote name='cruisinqt']They either need to pull out of the kids stuff all together or [/QUOTE] Stop right there. That is the *best* suggestion I've heard all day.

On most CCL ships, Camp Carnival is in a primo location. Perfect place for a new bar. :p

[redneck_dan]

[quote name='VentureMan_2000']Parents whose kids are wondering the halls and playing in the elevators... unsupervised... ARE YOU LISTENING![/QUOTE]

How about the drunken adults wondering the halls past midnight unsupervised?

[basketsiam]

[quote name='VentureMan_2000']
[b]My friend is a very good parent (patient), and her son is a very good child (now 10). The fact is, she brought a child on the trip, so the trip, by default, became about the child. In this case, a 2 year old child. You can't dismiss my friend's opinion by ragging about her husband. [/b][/QUOTE]


I disagree that the trip, by default, became about the child. To me, her experience said quite a great deal about her marriage when her husband put himself before his family.

I can't speak for taking a two year old myself......I took my daughter on her first cruise at the age of four, and I can honestly say that we had the time of our lives. She is now seven and in less than a week, she will sail with us on what will be her 5th cruise. Yes, my husband and I have cruised without our children (as recently as March), but we also enjoy cruising as a family vacation. In our experiences, cruising beats a land vacation (and yes, we've done the Disney World thing) anytime!!!!!

[triplelutz]

[quote name='halos']I guess I don't understand why it bothers you so much. I have 2 kids that I love with all my heart and when others call children 'Spawns of Satan', it doesn't offend me at all....why, I don't know. Maybe just because I know my kids are good and that there ARE some nasty kids out there who are being raised by emotionally/mentally ill equipped parents who don't know the meaning of the word 'parent'...so I understand that the description does indeed, sadly, fit a lot of kids and their parents.
The OP herself in another hot topic thread she started ([COLOR=DarkRed]hmmmm, makes you wonder if we have all be schnookered here[/COLOR]) stated that her son would in NO way wear a suit...he is 11. Parenting???? Not.
Guess how that will turn out in later years. If your kid won't listen to you at 11 about what is proper to wear...then when they are a teenager and big issues come up, you don't stand a chance.
Yeah...you're right, poor parenting is to blame. Unfortunately when these poor parents vacation on the same ship as other people, who suffers??[/QUOTE]

Halos, I think it bothers me because I'm well aware of the negative feelings some have towards kids on cruises, so I am on top of my girls demanding their best behavior. I make such an effort to make sure that my girls aren't aren't the ones being posted about on here! :) I don't want to get painted with the same brush as parents that aren't responsible about their children. It's the blanket statements I find objectionable - just because other kids misbehave, mine should be punished too? It's kind of like saying nobody should have alcohol on board just because there are some that can't control themselves and drink responsibly.

I must say that I'm enjoying our conversation - it's so nice to exchange ideas and points of views with someone who can calmly discuss things! And I do think the OP was a ringer! ;)

[VentureMan_2000]

[font=Arial][size=3]Don't read too much into whether you thought the husband did his duties. You will be missing the point. The point is... my friends brought their 2 year old on the cruise thinking they could still do all the 'Adult' things.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3]What they did not realize at the time was:[/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3] [/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3]If you bring a child on a trip, the trip is about the child, not yourselves. If you try to make it into a trip about yourselves (which my friends did... one succeeded, the other didn't) when you have a child with you, you will be miserable. [/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3] [/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3]If they were to have focused on having fun with the 2 year old, and planned on chasing him around the ship (because that's what you do with a 2 year old), leaving early from meals, missing shows, and going to the cabin for naps and bedtime early, changing diapers, and having short excursions in port, they would have had a much better time. Instead, all they could think about was all the activities they were missing out on.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3] [/size][/font]

[font=Arial][size=3]If you want an adult experience, travel without the children.[/size][/font]

[font='Times New Roman'][font=Arial][size=3][/size][/font][/font]
[font='Times New Roman'][font=Arial][size=3]If you travel with your children, please spend your time with them. Enjoy them. And please don't be the parents that 'dump' their children off onto others to watch (and annoy).[/size][/font][/font]

[mnhenderson]

[quote name='halos']There you go! You are the super-mom I [I]thought[/I] I was!!! LOL!!! I should have sent my youngest over to your house!! :D
Sometimes it's great when the little ones want to be just like the big kids!!
Obviously, having a Day Care in your home (Bless you) means you are a [U]very[/U] patient woman!!! I hope to be in the next life!!! Patience with kids is not one of my virtues...LOL, just ask mine!![/QUOTE]

Thanks for the compliment! It is nice to hear someone appreciate the daily grind a good daycare provider goes through.(don't hear much of that these days). I am certainly not "super- mom" ,but I do my best to teach my child and the children in my care the right things in life and the manners needed to function in this world.I have a feeling you share those values. Totally off topic,but if daycare workers were paid what they are worth,there would be better daycare and thus better behaved children. Happy Cruising!! Mariann

[cruisinqt]

Sorry Tef43, but the cruise lines are highly unlikely to get rid of their kids programs or stop appealing to families with kids. Cruise lines make a SIGNIFICANT amount of money from families with kids. Not everyone has someone available to watch the kids while they cruise. And cruise lines know that and want their money. That's why cruise lines will probably always try to make themselves appealing to families and children. For those cruise ships in the summer that have 800 kids on board, imagine how many adults came along with those children. And imagine how many of them would not go if there were no children's programs available. Not everyone has someone they know and trust just ready and waiting to watch the kids for them. The cruise lines would miss out on TONS of money. That's why you don't see that many adult only cruises. The cruise lines are probably worried about another "Paradise" situation arising, except it wouldn't be a smoking issue, just a kid's issue. Let's face it, families with children contribute a lot of money to the cruise lines. For that reason, the cruise lines will always try to get families to cruise on their ships. All we can do is try to make good suggestions on how to deal with the problems so the cruise lines can make our cruises more pleasant for us.:)