I won't Auto-tip!! Some crew may or may not get screwed

[steveaaaa]

On the CC "Feature" articles, there is a new feature on tipping and one section reads as follows.......

 

When ships offer passengers a prepaid gratuity option (putting $10 or so per person, per day, on your shipboard account to cover a myriad of staffers), "do the tip-able employees -- such as cabin stewards and waiters -- get the full recommended amounts?" writes Jack Jacques. "It seems that a ship could 'short' the employees and make up some profitability ... I'd be temped to pass on the 'prepaid' and assure that the folks who make my cruise get their fare wage."

 

Editor's Answer: While percentages vary and it's pretty clear that the tip-able folks have in some cases taken a cut in the new system:mad: :mad: , many folks reward them with a few extra bucks. Cruise line ratios vary but trust me -- if they start taking advantage of crew, the really good ones will go elsewhere.

 

 

So I am sticking to removing them and tipping in cash. I thought there might be an "administration fee".

 

Steve

Include them in the fare

[pholter]

The Pool system works the same here in the states. You can look up the Labor Board rules, etc. Any hotel, restaurant, club, etc. that collects and distributes tips/gratuities equitably can take 10% off the top to cover service salaries. It's called the standard wage deduction. We do it where I work, too.

 

I will continue to do my gratuities via PrePaid system and tip those deserving well over and above once the service is provided.

 

Now, if everyone just contributed to the pool rather than opting out and then "forgetting" to tip, the crew would probably make about 30% more monthly.

[PINEVIEW01]

This is what I have always posted on tipping. I have had crew tell me this. But, nobody here wants to hear it.

[MrPete]

 

 

So I am sticking to removing them and tipping in cash.

 

You seem to be looking for permission or something?? Do what you want, but the obsession tells us in the know more than you think.

[dan40]

Steveaaaa,

You start your post off by saying the crew gets screwed, then you post part of a story that DOES NOT say, or in any way infer that. If you don't want to tip, then don't.

I'm a firm believer that ANY AND ALL QUESTIONS OR COMPLAINTS about tipping are just justifications for being a cheap screw and stiffing the help.

Go ahead and stiff them, [like I could stop you!] just don't try to dazzle us with BS.

 

Dan

[firefly333]

Iv asked my room steward and they say they get their cut and they would prefer I leave the auto tip. the article mentions adding to the tip. some tip over and above the $10 that is on your card. thats what Id do if you are worried. tip extra.

[hdawson]

STEVEAAAA. Did you read something that I didn't, in the words "could 'short"?

And who in the heck is Jack Jacque?

[PDAZ]

I had read on one of the forums -- I think it was HAL -- that if you elected to have auto-tip removed, your cabin steward and wait staff would be asked to turn in their tips anyhow to be included in the pool. Don't know it that's true! I just auto-tip and give a little extra directly to the folks who have made my trip special.

[Cotton]

Steveaaaa... Normally I skip over the threads you originate, because it's the same old-same old "why not to tip" bull. The fact that you don't want to tip period is obvious...proven in your many posts - over and over, ad naseum. We should all be used to this by now. TaTa forever, and happy sailing.:cool:

[hdawson]

Pdaz. That's true. If a guest removes the auto tip and then tips in cash, the cash tip must be turned into the pool. Of course if the auto tips are removed more than an average and no cash tips turned in, it suggests that the steward/waiter is a below average server or dishonest and that would be considered at contract renewal time. Any cash tip above the auto tip is the waiter or steward's and they can keep it.

[Kittybork]

It appears that he's right on this one:

 

"While percentages vary and it's pretty clear that the tip-able folks have in some cases taken a cut in the new system, many folks reward them with a few extra bucks. Cruise line ratios vary"

 

I don't want the cruise line keeping a portion of my tip for the line. All of it should go to the person who performed the service. That's lousy.

 

I know someone posted that his company keeps a portion to cover "standard wage deduction" (doesn't that sound like income tax?), but it is not the case in Louisiana. Waitresses keep the tips that they earn, though some establishments do pool, I don't think that is the majority.

[PDAZ]

Pdaz. That's true. If a guest removes the auto tip and then tips in cash, the cash tip must be turned into the pool. Of course if the auto tips are removed more than an average and no cash tips turned in, it suggests that the steward/waiter is a below average server or dishonest and that would be considered at contract renewal time.

 

Well that bites. I remember the old days when we handed out tips in cash on the last night -- the dining room would be half empty as people ate in the buffet to avoid having to tip. I suspect most of the people who remove the auto tip aren't really tipping in cash -- they just don't want to tip! It must be awkward for the employees who are asked to turn in tips they haven't received. While I agree with you that they may be below average workers or dishonest, I think it's more likely that they are victims of cheap passengers :cool:

[PINEVIEW01]

Iv asked my room steward and they say they get their cut and they would prefer I leave the auto tip. the article mentions adding to the tip. some tip over and above the $10 that is on your card. thats what Id do if you are worried. tip extra.

My DH has ask the room steward and he was told they don't. I has talked to waiter and they say they don't. It is sad an employer can stiff paying wages AND take 10% of those wages AND have it legal.

[hdawson]

Prior to auto tipping, and still on some lines, 18% of guests did not tip. Auto tipping insures that the waiter/stewards have a chance of earning more. Some will still remove the auto tip but some will not bother or are embarassed to have them removed. As hard as the staff works to make our cruise more enjoyable, it's hard to imagine that someone can be that cheap. I've now been on 19 cruises on various lines and the staff has always earned thier tips.

 

BTW. I don't think the buffet is open on the last night of the cruise.

[steveaaaa]

This is the whole article dated 5/8/07.......

 

The issue of gratuities is right up there with "illegal" deck chair reservations as one most likely to garner a huge response every time we promote a story on the subject.

 

Our various stories on tipping are always available on our site -- but a spot on our home page's highly visible Today on Cruise Critic tends to draw more eyeballs. And after highlighting Q&A: The Controversy of Tipping last week, my mailbox was filled with questions.

 

With the advent of prepaid gratuities, tipping has definitely become more complicated since the days when you just handed out cash to your cabin steward and waiter. Easily, the most common areas of confusion are:

 

When ships offer passengers a prepaid gratuity option (putting $10 or so per person, per day, on your shipboard account to cover a myriad of staffers), "do the tip-able employees -- such as cabin stewards and waiters -- get the full recommended amounts?" writes Jack Jacques. "It seems that a ship could 'short' the employees and make up some profitability ... I'd be temped to pass on the 'prepaid' and assure that the folks who make my cruise get their fare wage."

 

Editor's Answer: While percentages vary and it's pretty clear that the tip-able folks have in some cases taken a cut in the new system, many folks reward them with a few extra bucks. Cruise line ratios vary but trust me -- if they start taking advantage of crew, the really good ones will go elsewhere.

 

Regarding specialty restaurants, Cruise Critic member Richard E writes: "Do you tip the waiters in the specialty restaurant the same amount as your dining room waiter if at all?"

 

Editor's Answer: Typically, specialty restaurants charge an upfront service fee (ranging from $20 to $30 per person) and so extra tipping is not expected. For extraordinary service in these restaurants (whether it be the sommelier or the waiter) I have actually tipped on top of the service fee -- but that's your call. In specialty restaurants where there's no extra service fee (particularly on NCL and Oceania ships) it's recommended you lay down a few bucks -- by the way, this does not include buffet venues.

 

Thanks to all who wrote with questions. For more details, please check out our other stories on gratuities from our Cruise Line Tipping Policies roundup to a report from one cruise insider on his own system. Above all, it's important to remember that tipping is personal. No one line forces you to tip -- and all offer "recommended" amounts. Pay what feels right to you.

 

Finally, the most interesting missive that arrived last week came from a reader from Australia; Cruise Critic member Wouter van Wandelen (WVW), who worked at Holland America in onboard jobs such as front desk supervisor, second maitre, lido manager, assistant controller, and Controller, Marine Hotel Operations (on Maasdam, Ryndam, Volendam and Amsterdam). He offers a fascinating inside view from a variety of perspectives. It's a long e-mail, but take the time to read it. You'll learn something..........................

 

And here is the email referenced..............

 

Tipping: Letter from Cruise Critic Member Wouter van Wandelen

Last Updated: 05/08/07

 

"I spent three years working onboard cruise ships as an officer (2001 - 2004). I would like to comment on your article regarding tipping and specifically regarding the part on 'first world advantage over third world'

 

"I have been asked many times onboard if I did not feel guilty for the crewmembers from Indonesia and the Philippines for earning so much less than me being from Holland.

 

"First of all, salaries and benefits are based on the function. I feel very comfortable earning more money as a Controller than the guy who works as a waiter. After all I spent a lot of money and effort getting educated for this job.

 

"Secondly, officers are not included in the tipping. On the other hand, a barman, waiter or room attendant, who really has "the touch," makes a lot of extra tips in addition to the amount he receives from the tipping pool. I have been working in the restaurants before I moved to the position of Controller and I have been stunned over and over again with the money some of these guys make. I am not lying if I say that a good waiter can easily make more money than a fourth or even third officer. Do not get me wrong, these guys are really working very hard and they deserve it, but I have been many times very jealous when I saw them count their tips after the last night.

 

"Thirdly, even within the officer ranks, there are differences in salaries and not only between first and third world officers. I know officers with the same nationality, rank, age and experience, earning different salaries. Like in any company, there are guidelines for salaries but these are negotiable. I have had colleagues who transferred from a different cruise line because they were offered a good deal for the reason that at that time there was a shortage on those positions. They got lucky, having more bargaining power.

 

"At last, my most important point, people should not forget that there is a huge difference between the living standards and purchasing power between the first and third world. Take two crewmembers who fulfill the same duties and earn the same salaries; one goes home to a third world country, the other goes back to Europe. The guy in the Third World would be able to buy a house and some land while the guy in Europe would be lucky if he could rent some small room on the 10th floor in some obscure suburb. Many of my ex-colleagues who hailed from Indonesia acquired land, properties and businesses I could only dream of.

 

"Again, I do not want to talk them down, they all do a great job, working very hard far away from home, trying to satisfy guests who complain about $10 more on a daily expense of much more. But I also know of crewmembers specifically trying to work the passengers' emotions by pointing out the unfair difference between first and third world in hope for some extra tips.

 

"I am not complaining that I cannot buy a house and a couple of rice fields when I come home after one contract but neither did I ever feel sorry for earning more money than the 'third world' crewmembers. The only ones I did feel sorry for were officers who joined the company as a trainee. (I did that as my first contract.) They work the same efforts, hardly get any salary as a trainee, do not get any tips as an officer and have to go home to Europe where their earned American dollars are worth less and less."..................

 

 

Steve

I have always stated to include it in the fare!!!

[crazy4cruznatl]

Wow, thank you for the advice. Kind of sad that Carnival treats their employees that way. You'd think that since they keep them in cooped up quarters for so long they would treat them better. Will definately pay with cash tips. Thanks again!

Keri

[happy cruzin]

On the CC "Feature" articles, there is a new feature on tipping and one section reads as follows.......

 

When ships offer passengers a prepaid gratuity option (putting $10 or so per person, per day, on your shipboard account to cover a myriad of staffers), "do the tip-able employees -- such as cabin stewards and waiters -- get the full recommended amounts?" writes Jack Jacques. "It seems that a ship could 'short' the employees and make up some profitability ... I'd be temped to pass on the 'prepaid' and assure that the folks who make my cruise get their fare wage."

 

Editor's Answer: While percentages vary and it's pretty clear that the tip-able folks have in some cases taken a cut in the new system:mad: :mad: , many folks reward them with a few extra bucks. Cruise line ratios vary but trust me -- if they start taking advantage of crew, the really good ones will go elsewhere.

 

 

So I am sticking to removing them and tipping in cash. I thought there might be an "administration fee".

 

Steve

Include them in the fare

 

Two thoughts:

 

1.) "could short" does not in way mean "does short".

 

2.) the "cut" referred to in the article I took to mean that people are removing the auto-tips and then not tipping at all - or significantly below the recommended rate. And that definately would equate to a "cut" for those crew members.

 

JMHO :rolleyes:

[hdawson]

Quote: It seems that a ship could 'short' the employees and make up some profitability ..Unquote

 

Steve, isn't this plain speculation on someone's part? Who is Jack Jacques? Does the word "could" hold any validation?

[hubofhockey]

I asked our headwaitress on the Liberty what her preference was. She said the auto-tip was her preference and she believed most of the crew believed that to be the case. So, that's what we did.

[steveaaaa]

Two thoughts:

 

1.) "could short" does not in way mean "does short".

 

2.) the "cut" referred to in the article I took to mean that people are removing the auto-tips and then not tipping at all - or significantly below the recommended rate. And that definately would equate to a "cut" for those crew members.

 

JMHO :rolleyes:

 

I agree with point #1

 

#2. They refer to the new system, so if it means less for them under the new system,then why not go back to the old system? I interpret it to mean there is someone taking a piece as the statement "passing on the prepaid to insure they get their tip" portion.

Steve

[Kittybork]

Two thoughts:

 

1.) "could short" does not in way mean "does short".

 

2.) the "cut" referred to in the article I took to mean that people are removing the auto-tips and then not tipping at all - or significantly below the recommended rate. And that definately would equate to a "cut" for those crew members.

 

JMHO :rolleyes:

 

I could agree with your assessment except for the comment about if the they start taking advantage of the crew....

 

To me, that means that indicates that the cruise line is taking a cut.

 

I understand that it's far-fetched and certainly not the case, but I can't help but think of the migrant workers from the depression days who worked so hard and ended up owing their employers money, so they could never quit their jobs.

[hdawson]

A conspiracy theorists maybe? Who the heck is Jack Jacques?

[firefly333]

When ships offer passengers a prepaid gratuity option (putting $10 or so per person, per day, on your shipboard account to cover a myriad of staffers), "do the tip-able employees -- such as cabin stewards and waiters -- get the full recommended amounts?" writes Jack Jacques. "It seems that a ship could 'short' the employees and make up some profitability ... I'd be temped to pass on the 'prepaid' and assure that the folks who make my cruise get their fare wage."

 

I think I would put emphasis on the part about how cruiselines COULD short their employees. There is no evidence that they ARE shorting their own employees and keeping a cut of the tips.

 

If they are I dont feel its my business to take off my tips just in case my steward or whatever might not get the amount set for him. The whole premis is that the cruiselines are acting in a dishonest fashion with the prepaid tips.

[Kittybork]

A conspiracy theorists maybe? Who the heck is Jack Jacques?

 

Without going back and rereading the article, I think he was a passenger who wrote and asked the question.

[crazy4cruznatl]

I asked our headwaitress on the Liberty what her preference was. She said the auto-tip was her preference and she believed most of the crew believed that to be the case. So, that's what we did.

Good idea to ask your waitstaff....wow lots of things to think about. Good thing I have a year still to worry lol.