Will Freestyle ever work on POA?

[shoreguy]

I hope this thread does not go up in flames but I thought this might make an interesting discusion and you don't need facts to contribute.

 

The intinery is very port intensive including overnights on the POA. more so then any other NCL ship . My question is open to debate but it seems to me that Freestyle will always be challanged because of that.

 

On the Sun and Dawn at 5:15 they start to line up to be the first to eat and the flow is steady with peaks at 7 and after the first show gets out. For the most part the dinning is spread over the 5:30 to 10 PM window.

 

On the POA with everyone returning from port late and the bulk of the passengers now trying to eat in a lets say 7:30 - 9:30 window will they ever be able to make it work. If 3/4 of the passengers want to eat after 7:30 and an average cruise meal service is 1.5 hours a lot of folks are going to waiting.

There are just so many tables an so many waiters without spreading it out over a longer period are long waits there to stay.

 

They could speed up service but then we would complain they rushed us through dinner in 45 minutes. Nothing better then sitting at the table eating your salad while your dinner gets cold on a nearby tray.

 

Not sure what the alternative is. I know I would not want traditional early seating on that cruise. I would end up eating ashore.

 

Any thoughts?

[margu1241]

I think it can work when the ship is fully staffed. It would also help to make the buffet more appealing to take some of the pressure off the main dining rooms. In order to do that, they would need to increase seating, and I don't know how they will do that and improve the quality of the food. Also, I don't know where they could carve out space, but they should add another dining area that is slightly different from the main dining rooms (If I was queen of NCL I would make this one reservation only, but no charge-there are already 3 extra charge restaurants). If they offered a more extensive room service menu, many might choose to eat on their balconies-why can't they offer the same dinner menu as the main dining rooms?

 

What I don't understand is why you can't make reservations ahead of time, like you do on Princess with Personal Choice. Currently you can only do it if you have a group of 8+ on Aloha. I would think it would help them to not have everyone show up at the same time. I also think they need to go to a pager system like I have seen at a lot of restaurants. It would clear out the area in front of the dining room (where there really is no place to wait) and people would be more relaxed in a lounge or in their rooms.

 

Patty

[shoreguy]

Patty

 

Your right if they had a killer buffet they could take a real load of the main dinning rooms.

[Host CMLA]

Just my opinion but I don't think NCL thought it out enough when they put a ship full time in Hawaii. I think they thought that more people would take advantage of dining ashore. On other cruises you have less time on the islands. On the POA you have lots of time in port. I think this is a shift in what a cruise traditionally is. On other cruises you go from port to port with a lot of time on the ship. Now there's more time on shore but people still think of it as a traditional cruise experience. Does that make sense? In any case, I hope it becomes a smoother process for everyone.

[gdries]

Perhaps they should work on a dining ashore program similar to what they are doing in the Bahamas. It seems to be getting good reviews there.

[shoreguy]

Perhaps they should work on a dining ashore program similar to what they are doing in the Bahamas. It seems to be getting good reviews there.

 

Another great idea

 

Maybe by the end of this thread we can compile the top ten constructive ideas to make POA better and send them off To NCL.

[Zeno]

Some great ideas here: I like the idea of a "dining ashore" type program, a really good buffet and/or BBQ on deck. Also reservations might help but there would have to be an understanding that if you don't show up on time (say with a 10 minute grace period), your reservation would be forfeit and you would have to join the line (if any). Also - what about turning one of the extra fee restaurants into just another dining room - to relieve that pressure on the main dining rooms.

[margu1241]

The extra fee restaurants were fairly small, with the exception of Le Bistro-not sure if making one a main restaurant would be effective. Kahili only has tables for 4 or 2 and is a long narrow room. Pacific Heights had more options for table size but is fairly small as well. Also, as one who didn't mind paying the fee, I like having more choices.

 

What is the dining ashore program? One problem with eating ashore is that on days that the ship sails, it leaves port at 1:00 (Kauai), 6:00 (Hilo), 5:00 (Kona) and 6:00 (Maui). That doesnt leave a lot of time to eat dinner on shore before the ship leaves. I would imagine that time is not adjustable, as their plan is to maximize time on shore. So that leaves the overnights in Kauai and Maui as potential nights to eat dinner on shore. I think in Maui most people ate at a Luau, so that should already be pretty stress free on the dining rooms.

 

I still think that staffing is the main issue-when you see as many empty tables in the dining room as I saw you can see how that would create a backlog.

 

Patty

[gardencat]

Originally posted by margu1241

I still think that staffing is the main issue-when you see as many empty tables in the dining room as I saw you can see how that would create a backlog.

 

 

 

I agree. Until they are able to get and keep staff at a suitable level I don't think freestyle or traditional style dinning will work on this ship.

Just picture them trying to run traditional style dinning with not enough servers to wait on all the tables at once? At this point they may be able to get away with asking dinners to come back in 20 or 30 minutes but with traditional two seating dinning, even that wouldn't work.

[jkrislc]

The dining ashore program is a great idea, but would probably only relieve the crowds two of the seven nights (the overnights the POA is in port). As others have said, improving the buffet and/or the room service menu would help tremendously. On my last two short cruises on another line, we ate exclusively through room service (they had limited but full dinners available) or at the buffet, which was quite good. A reservation only but no charge restuarant might also work as well. Perhaps NCL could designate one of the main restuarants/dining rooms as "reservation only" and the other as open seating (like Princess does). This might relieve some of the burden as well.

 

Keep in mind that the POAl was originally intended to be a 3/4 day cruise, not a 7 day cruise. Perhaps this is placing an unexpected burden on the ship as it has less dining venues than planned on the POAm.

[segerd]

The ports that the POA visits don't have many dining options available, we looked.

[patandcd]

Great question, Shoreguy. Good suggestions from everyone, but it still brings you back to the question of why so many of the crew are leaving. This is most obviously the main problem. There have already been a few threads about this issue. JMHO opinon, but until the service issues are addressed, neither freestyle nor traditional will work.

[taxatty]

Don't most of the passengers (who don't ever do a pre-cruise Internet search) expect to eat totally free, luscious meals on the POA 24 hours a day, just like every other cruise ship? Why should NCL expect them to eat (at least) breakfast or dinner off the ship? After all, the lovely NCL brochures tout the Freestyle dining experience. Reading the many threads here detailing that the only way to get a decent meal in under 2 hours on the POA was in an extra-charge dining venue or off the ship completely, with dining rooms opening late and closing early and severe room service limitations (unlike any other mainstream cruise line) explains a great deal of the overall negativity.

 

We thought about taking the POA Xmas time but decided on a December land tour in Hawaii instead. Thank goodness.

 

Les

[Pie-n-Fudge]

for NCL that seems so simple that I can't understand why they don't institute it immediately if not sooner. How many passengers do they have to tick off before they get the message?

 

Send letters to all passengers currently booked explaining about the staffing and training problems (for those who don't know about internet message boards, which I'm sure are many). Then offer to let passengers reschedule or cancel up to 1 week ahead of time without penalty. This may lighten the passenger load and ease up the staffs workload, while giving some breathing room to get things organized. Forget the temps, the paper plates, closing restaurants and passengers cleaning their rooms and bussing tables. How long to they think they can get away with that? If they really want to come out on top of this disaster, they would offer some restitution to past passengers as well. That is just the right thing to do.

 

If passengers choose to go ahead with their cruises, they really can't complain about the service because it was THEIR choice to cruise on an understaffed, ill-trained ship. Sure NCL may lose some money, but they will save face and possibly avoid having this project blow up in their faces which, if they aren't aware, is happening as we speak (or type as the case may be).

 

It's the only chance they've got.

[smeyer418]

Perhaps they should work on a dining ashore program similar to what they are doing in the Bahamas. It seems to be getting good reviews there.

Do you mean Bermuda?

[gdries]

Yeah, one of those little "B" islands. I am still functionally illiterate most of the time......:D But Sid, at least you understand and do not bash the token handicpped folks like me! Thanks for your profound kindness.

[richtersl]

:confused: I haven't seen the POA itinerary so I do not know exactly what you mean by "port intensive".

 

When I did one of the NCL Sky Southern Caribbean cruises, we had only one sea day. I don't recall any problems with getting food at all. Wait times for the main dining rooms were not long. We ate early and were usually finished by 7:00-7:30 which was generally the time the dining rooms were crowded. Some days there were folks waiting to get in and some days there weren't. When we saw folks waiting, it was never more than 3 or 4 couples. I took mental note of that based on all the complaints I had read here about long wait times for the main dining rooms. I personally did not witness or experience long wait times.

 

But then, the Sky was fully staffed and trained.

 

I don't know what's going to work to get the POA on its feet.

 

But remember, the Sun and Star both had their share of problems getting on their feet too. If this board still has an archive of postings dating back to 9/1/2001-12/31/2001 you can check them out. A lot of unhappy people returned from cruises between those periods.

[gardencat]

richtersl

 

I think that the postings from those dates got lost when we moved to the new boards, but the reviews from those dates are still in the review section.

If you compare the early reviews of the Star to the present reviews of POA, the POA seem to have many more and much worse reviews.

It may well be that for some reason the bad comments about the Star were all posted on the board and not the in the review section, but I don't understand why it should be that those with good reviews for the Star would have found the review section but not those with bad reviews.

Going on what I see in the reviews, the POA situation sounds as if it is much worse than the Star start up.

[shoreguy]

:confused: I haven't seen the POA itinerary so I do not know exactly what you mean by "port intensive".

 

SNIP

 

 

I don't know what's going to work to get the POA on its feet.

 

But remember, the Sun and Star both had their share of problems getting on their feet too. If this board still has an archive of postings dating back to 9/1/2001-12/31/2001 you can check them out. A lot of unhappy people returned from cruises between those periods.

 

By port intensive I mean two overnights and no sea days. The Sky was very successful in the Southern route which is in fact port intensive. The problem is not the "old" ship.

 

Early reports from the Sun sound alot like those from POA. I posted a long list of comments I cut from the review section. That post and the thread went they way of many lately and was zapped. Here are a few.

 

Lines, lines & more lines. No comparrison to the quality of our other cruising experiences!:( - Anonymous

 

Sorry Ship! Shows Great Tipping system offers no incentive for service Bloody/dirty blanket brought to room AND UNCARING MGM'T/STAFF Chaos @ buffet and the wait staff hope they don't see you the next night

 

Moldy shower curtain in cabin bathroom. Stained bedspread.

 

HATED IT! - Anonymous

 

Three words: Awful. Awful. Awful. - Anonymous

 

First and ONLY NCL cruise, never again on NCL! - Anonymous

 

Automatic tipping, additional tipping, inclusive tipping, Beware!!!

 

MANY EXTRA COST ITEMS, AND A DEBITED TIP CONSTITUTE A RIPOFF, SHAME ON YOU NORWEGIANS

 

Food and service fell FAR short of previous cruises; FreeStyle is a ripoff requiring a costly surcharge for only a slightly better restaurant and the same rotating staff... smoke and PA announcements everywhere... never again with NCL! -

 

Bad bed, bad food, bad crew, bad shows, bad drinks, bad ports, you get what you pay for, never again on a NCL ship. We have gone on 8 other ships and none were this bad. anon. 12/22/02

 

Kid's program (locked away). Food variety lacking. Housekeeping lacking. Service (What service?).

 

Poor service,cold food,NCL has seen the last of me

 

The K-mart of the cruise lines

 

This for a ship that I can't remember the last time I saw a post complaining about it.

[Kami's pal]

for NCL that seems so simple that I can't understand why they don't institute it immediately if not sooner. How many passengers do they have to tick off before they get the message?

 

Send letters to all passengers currently booked explaining about the staffing and training problems (for those who don't know about internet message boards, which I'm sure are many). Then offer to let passengers reschedule or cancel up to 1 week ahead of time without penalty. This may lighten the passenger load and ease up the staffs workload, while giving some breathing room to get things organized. Forget the temps, the paper plates, closing restaurants and passengers cleaning their rooms and bussing tables. How long to they think they can get away with that? If they really want to come out on top of this disaster, they would offer some restitution to past passengers as well. That is just the right thing to do.

 

If passengers choose to go ahead with their cruises, they really can't complain about the service because it was THEIR choice to cruise on an understaffed, ill-trained ship. Sure NCL may lose some money, but they will save face and possibly avoid having this project blow up in their faces which, if they aren't aware, is happening as we speak (or type as the case may be).

It's the only chance they've got.

How absolutely sensible. But won't happen. NCL is going to continue this experiment, angering first time cruisers for a long time. Because most new cruisers will believe the ads. We North Americans are so certain that nobody can get away with poor service. We expect to be able to return goods always if we aren't satisfied. Or we expect a refund if we complain, and especially if we can prove the complaint is true. I fear there is a tragedy in the making here. We also believe that any ship sailing under American registry is safe. How can we expect an overworked, under-trained, unmotivated crew of North American youngsters to work as hard for as little as the third world crew? The crew from Croatia, India, Malaysia, Philippines know that only by their sacrifices of family time, long, long hours, professionally pleasant service to EVERY CUSTOMER no matter how irritable, frightened, rude etc. will their children, parents, siblings live a bit better.

So, I expect that soon, newspapers will be reporting major health problems such as E-Coli, Norwalk, SARS, etc. And if there is a fire? Understaffed, overworked, untrained crew are the fire fighters etc. Tired, angry, sleep deprived people make poor decisions.

I don't want to line up for food. I certainly don't want to bus my own tables. I'll clean my own cabin if I think it's unhealthy, but pay for that?

No. What might change NCL is if all experienced cruisers were to boycott ALL NCL CRUISES.

[gardencat]

Originally posted by shoreguy

I posted a long list of comments I cut from the review section. That post and the thread went they way of many lately and was zapped. Here are a few.

 

 

 

I posted an even longer list of comments on the POA and that too is gone from the board.

These comments can still be found by going to the review page and clicking on 'member rating'. A list of quotes from members about that ship will come up.

[shoreguy]

What might change NCL is if all experienced cruisers were to boycott ALL NCL CRUISES.

 

Not sure that will help :confused: Reduce NCL's cash flow as they try and lauch the most expensive experiment in their history. With reduced funds they will be able to fix all the problems sooner.?

 

I have a different solution since we all are playing CEO for the moment. With an all American crew the labor costs are higher on the POAl then the premium ships. They need to re brand (no NCLA bargin label)

 

With the cost to run a US ship the fares are going to have to rise dramaticly if we expect a high touch model and not what NCL seems to be building which is a bargin hotel with transfers.

 

The staff to passenger ratio has to be increased. Some of the passenger space needs to be used for the additional crew. We can take shots at the management but lets face it the hard working American crew will never keep pace with an international crew that knows that if they fail at this job they have very few other options to support their families.

 

With all the noise about the stinken $10 per day charge are you willing to pay the cost to deliver the level of service everyone here seems to want. Are you ready to pay $2000 pp for an inside so you can have the "cruise experience" you are used to.

 

I just got an email - 9 nights including hotel, air, ocean view, transfers, port and tax for the POAl for $1399. NCL has a choice and so do we. Bargin trip for 7 days or tradition cruise. I believe NCL is betting on the bargin and those of us that want a cruise will take one . Those that want to see four islands for a reasonable price will book the POAL.

 

Maybe the target market is not us the cruise attics. I wish them luck in another bold experiment. Only time will tell. Don't think for a minute this little corner of cyber space will change NCL.

[cnmiranda]

Good points Shoreguy. I didn't know that about the NCL Sun! But I do think the complaints about dirty linens, cabins not being cleaned from previous customers for >1 one day, etc. are new.

 

As far as paying more to sail the POA, I would gladly do it to ensure a better experience. I think the cruise fares are high already (compared to other week long itineraries) and the ship is still selling out. My opinion is that many would pay an even higher price to ensure good food, service, etc. They have the market cornered in Hawaii so why not do it the right way?

[richtersl]

It's too bad that those old postings are gone. Many of those read like the comments you posted on POA. At that time I was paying very close attention to all the comments coming from those folks on the Sun because I was taking a trip on her in January 2002. I just kept praying that the crew would have gotten their act together.

 

Some of the comments I remember centered around the following:

 

* The food looked and tasted like dog food (I sure as heck don't know what dog food tastes like, but this reviewer apparently did :p )

 

* The watery scrambled eggs were digusting.

 

* My evening meal was not prepared properly (it was cold, over cooked, etc.)

 

* Service? What service?

 

* NCL - Never again.

 

* Freestyle? What Freestyle? I can't eat when and where I want because there are lines everywhere.

 

* The ship creaked and groaned all night.

 

* The tendering process was awful. There were long lines waiting to get on the tenders. And, the crew didn't know what they were doing.

 

* We were late getting to the port and didn't get to spend the alotted amount of time on the island.

 

* It took too long for dinner. Or, they rushed us out of the dining room. I've read both.

 

* If I remember correctly, one person even got off the Star at one of the Hawaiian ports and flew home early.

 

I really wish that we had access to those earlier postings. One guy took the time to post a journal of his trip on the Star. And, it was very well written. He sent us reports every day and let me tell you, things were bad and passengers irate.

 

I don't understand why all this is happening on the POA. In my discussions with crew members, they favor itineraries that are port-intensive because they get some time off during the day. On sea days, they generally are busier and wear many hats because they have a shipful of passengers to tend to.

 

I glanced at the member reviews and ship ratings. Most ratings after July 4 were pretty low. As a matter of fact, they drop drastically after June. What a shame.