Cruising With A Service Dog....everything You Ever Wanted To Know!

[kerrytens]

Bratty" dogs....my favorite......such characters!

 

:D:D:D Me too!!!

Have I mentioned before that I used to volunteer with a dog trainer in my area?? I found her through training my first Wheaten who was one tough cookie who I discovered needed WAY more leadership than what I was trying to do - oops! Anyway, we did gain that leadership role eventually and he taught me a lot about doggies in general. It was through him that my next Wheaten made her way into my life.

Well, Millie was the PERFECT dog in every way and could easily have gone through life with no training whatsoever and never ever have gotten into trouble but of course I was hooked on doggie training at that point so she was trained to a CDX level too (never competed because I was WAY to scared to try). She and I were the demo dog team for the beginner classes. Eventually I worked my way up to helping out with the classes and working some of the dogs too.

Finn (Millie's son) is by far my best trained dog and if it weren't for his arthritis now, we would do a lot more of the jumping, drop on recall stuff but it just wouldn't be good for him now. What a guy in his prime, he was!!!!!

Maddie, well, let's just say she was my biggest challenge - Kerries are FAR more terrier than Wheatens are and because of that, they are doubly strong willed, high prey, and with her, highly food oriented (she often could not focus if food was in sight). And forget about trying to ask her to do something two times in a row!!!!!! She was also the doggie alpha by 5 months of age so that gives you an idea of how much I needed to be on top of that leadership stuff with her ;)

But, with all that said about her, with her strong drives (again, she was also my most pack oriented dog and that is quite the statement considering how Millie was), I do believe if properly channeled she could have been an amazing SD for Hannah!!!!

Speaking of drives, have any of you heard about the drives testing for your dogs??? It is super interesting to do and really gives you a lot of insight on how exactly to train your dogs. The numbers had Finn as my most balanced in numbers and therefore his feat as my best trained and easily trained dog. It is really cool!!!

Just wondering if the SD organizations use anything like that in their training??? I'm sure they must use some sort of puppy testing ... yes???

 

Miriam

[wizard-of-roz]

Miriam, again some wonderful stories. You probably could have been a trainer for Service Dogs.

Brenda and her classmates, all 20 of them, were trained with rabbits, cats and some squirrels right in the room with them. Of course the rabbit, cats and squirrels were loose at different times along with sandwiches/bologna/cheese and kibble being layed all around the room (at different times, too!) If that's what you mean by "drives testing."

There were a few dogs who would stay behind the person they were working with just so they could "eye" the kitty that was walking across the floor or stare down the squirrel that had just lept into the tree. We were constantly reminding the dogs to stay within the "invisible box", next to the person they were walking with. A true challenge, at times.

It's fun to train and the most fun to watch each dog and see what really "drives" them!

When I was a little girl my father brought home a KerryBlue Terrier, who was probably the most disobedient but fun loving dog we ever had. She only wanted to run and play and jump and dig. She was a beautiful girl!

[kerrytens]

Roz, first off - wow, that is some amazing distraction training for those pups!!!! Bravo. I can certainly see some dogs going for the avoidance techniqe :D Of course, I can see why it needs to be so high level too. Really cool story! When you are being tested, does it hit that degree again??

 

As for drives, it basically gives you a number on where your dog stands for the four following drives: Prey, Pack, Fight and Flight

A 'balanced' dog will have a certain number within each drive and depending on what drive it is, it will be just enough (or little) to give them coping skills to manage a situation.

Prey drive basically boils down to survival - it is the basic need of the dog to find food and in our dogs it can come down to chasing that squirrel (not for food mind you but because that hunting skill is still inately wired in our dogs albeit deep down). Hunting dogs have high prey drive but it has been hyper focused to retrieve 'its' quarry for its pack leader.

Pack drive is exactly how it sounds - the desire to be part of a pack. Of course everyone wants a high pack drive dog but they can also be the ones who get into trouble because of separation anxiety. All basic obedience training is designed to keep the dog in pack drive as much as possible (or at least our training was)

Fight/Flight drive - just like us humans, it basically is all about how a dog reacts to any situation. Do you hold your ground (fight) or run like heck (flight)???? Again, using obedience these two drives are incredibly important to a trainer - and here comes the obscure part of the whole thing - a dog needs to be put into fight drive in order to switch a drive.

So, here is how it works (in my most excellent explanation :confused:)

You and doggie are walking quietly down the street and all is good. The dog is walking nicely by your side and occasionally looking up at you (wow, good pack drive kids) when suddenly a squirrel darts across your path. Doggie immediately lunges (oops, we are in prey drive now). Well, this isn't exactly what you want so you give the dog a command or a check to bring it back to lala land with you - this 'leave it' or check on the leash will put the dog into fight drive (ie, that snap back into reality makes the dog flash into what it would do to survive). And once doggie is being good again, you say gooooood boy or pat him on the head - that very action immediately has them in pack drive again.

OK, clear as mud????? I know, it took me years to understand the whole thing (and I probably still have years more of learning) but it gets really cool once you've done your dog's scores and then relate it to your training of that dog. All dogs need a good amount of fight drive in order to get through a day (dogs will switch their drives back and forth constantly) but there are dogs out there who have none - my Millie. She was a big, fat zero in that department. During our training, she literally could not handle any kind of correction because she didn't have the fight drive in order to cope. Her 'flight' (a drive she was ultra high in) led her just shut down completely. Shaunessy, on the other hand, was way too high in fight drive and the wrong correction could leave him in a bad place (yes, he was that tough!!!). His pack drive was also very low (OK, as desirable as I made myself, he still didn't see me as something to be around!) and his prey drive was immense so it made a hard dog to train - but man, it made me a great teacher!!!

Balanced dogs (Finn) have a good fight drive (in order to handle corrections), low flight (oh yes, Millie was 10 out of 10 in flight!!!), good pack (makes sense, you want them to be close - both Millie and Maddie were 10 out of 10 and although that sounds good, it isn't what your dog really needs - Finn is a 7) and medium prey drive (OK, in basic obedience you don't utilize this part of a dog's make up - you want them to stay in pack actually when training initially). But it really comes full force when training for higher things like being a SD, I would imagine and especially in the CD level of things - the dog needs that ability to want to chase/jump etc. A low prey drive dog really has trouble with jumps as they don't get that part. They are just happiest in the drive that is strongest (hopefully that isn't fight or flight!)

Drives also really give you an insight into how to praise your dog - Millie with her high pack, high flight, no fight and almost no prey was happy just to be at my side (which in and of itself was fabulous!!!) but I wanted her to train to the next level (CDX training requires a dog to be in prey drive most of the time). I basically could not correct her in the usual fashion because she'd get herself into flight and shut down in order to cope so we modified her training where I basically had to stand on my head and jump around to cheer her on. It was exhausting but it kept her happy and working for me!!!!

Finn, the balanced one, could accept the correction and get back into pack drive with merely a touch on his head. His prey drive was high enough that getting him over those jumps was a breeze!!

UD training I never did but from what I understand a dog needs to utilize its fight drive more and that wasn't somewhere I really cared to venture into considering my trials and tribulations with Mr. Shaunessy.

 

And, boy did that turn into a mile long explanation of drives and how they work!!! Basically, you can't get a clear idea of a dog until they are 4 years old but I started doing the questions really early on my guys and they didn't change much. All questions are answered from an untrained dog perspective but it is hard to do once your dog has been trained. :D

 

I shall stop talking now ....

 

 

Miriam

[sunshine426]

That was a great explanation and fascinating. I work with so many different dogs (as a handler, not a trainer), and even dogs from the same litter can really differ. This makes such sense. I am sure the trainers are familar with it, I need to figure out how to incorporate it in my own handling. So what does it mean when they are walking nicely with you, all focused, yea, doing great and then they bark. And not always nicely, especially if it is at a 3 year old in Taget:o.

[kerrytens]

That was a great explanation and fascinating. I work with so many different dogs (as a handler, not a trainer), and even dogs from the same litter can really differ. This makes such sense. I am sure the trainers are familar with it, I need to figure out how to incorporate it in my own handling. So what does it mean when they are walking nicely with you, all focused, yea, doing great and then they bark. And not always nicely, especially if it is at a 3 year old in Taget:o.

Glad you understood my most excellent explanation of one situation ;). Drives are so cool to use in everything you do with your dog.

Now, for your scenario, it is hard to tell exactly - the bark is most likely the dog switching itself into fight or flight (whichever is the higher of the two). Three year old tend to have a lot of frenetic activity, they are never still. To a dog, this activity can be perceived much the same as the frenetic activity of a squirrel (prey). It sounds like the dog is throwing himself into fight/flight and then not getting the opportunity to go into prey (afterall, you have the lease and are preventing him from going into prey drive - used to 'play' with that fun kid, most likely).

A quick correction will keep the dog in fight/flight (remember, you need to utilize this drive in order to switch back to the more desirable one you want), and then either a pat on the head, a good boy or whatever praise you use should bring them back. The intensity of all of the above will be dependant on the situation too - the higher the stim, the higher the correction/praise will need to be and visa versa. And that also explains why it is so important to put the dogs (whether an SD or pet) into tons of situations - the more they get used to them, the lower the stim for them.

And there I go again :o Can you tell I love this stuff????

Miriam

[wizard-of-roz]

Miriam: That was so much fun.....Thanks for the info. Most interesting.

CCI Service Dogs are graduated at the age of 18 months to 2.5 years depending on the dog and the training involved.

I find that when correcting Brenny (if she's grazing or staring at an object too long) it's best not to use a "vocal" command, at all. I use a "quick" tug on her leash or foot "stomp" or a "light tap" on the top of her head, these all work best! "Redirection" is a wonderful thing!!!!!!

 

I don't like to draw the public's attention to her anymore than necessary. And, she totally knows when she receives any of the above (at just the right moment) what she's done and what she needs to do to correct herself!

 

And, Brenda is one of those dogs that is so driven by food that she'll stare at my hand, after I've given her a command, just to see what I have for her!!!!;)

[S.S. Cruisers]

I come here today with a heavy heart. I had to send Reno over the rainbow ridge, yesterday. He deteriated so much in one week, that I knew it was time. He could not get up by himself. He wouldn't eat, so I hand feed him the first night. By the next morning, he just looked at the food in my hand and turned his head. I knew that was not my big boy. I know he is in a better place. He is with brothers and sisters and my dad, having the time of his life. Running and jumping like he was a pup again.

I am leaving today to go get my mom and move her down here by us. Won't have computer access. I knew I could come blubber like a baby here and you guys would understand.

 

Nancy

[uppitycats]

I'm so sorry about your furkid! I know it has to be so tough for you right now, but it sounds like you absolutely did the right thing. It's hard for us humans to do that, but it's necessary. Take care, and hugs and purrs from my furkids.

[wizard-of-roz]

Oh, Nancy....our dear sweet, loving and sometimes deliberately "bad boy" "RENO"....I never met him but I did love him...just from your stories and pictures of him.

My heart goes out to you! You knew it wasn't going to be much longer....we all just hoped it would be!

Thank you for sharing him with us and know that we're here with you and totally understand everything that you're feeling and going through.

He was your friend for many, many years. He had a wonderful life with you and you with him.

Thank you for always being so helpful and kind. We're lucky to have you onboard with us and so was he!!!!!!

Much Love and Sweeter Days Ahead,

Roz and Brenny

[sunshine426]

My heart is sad for you at this time. I know how special the bond is between the beloved dog(working or pet) and his/her person. I imagine you will still see him out of the corner of your eye, listen for his toe nails on the floor, sometimes even think you can still smell them. It gets better, but it can take awhile. I wish I could lend you my big yellow dog just for a few hugs. I'll give her some extra hugs tonight and tell her it is from Reno and his mommy.

[kerrytens]

Oh Nancy, I am so sorry to hear about Reno. I know I essentially just joined this wonderful group but I do feel as if I know you all and your pets. Losing one is very, very hard but I do also know you can take great comfort in the fact that Reno is a much better place now. No more aches, pains ... nothing! Running like a pup once more!!!

Thank you for sharing him with us. And know you are in my thoughts. My heart goes out to you.

Hugs!!! Miriam

PS. I KNOW my bratty Maddie was right there for him - she is showing him the ropes right now, I am sure! And probably a few of her bad tricks too.

[Latitude 20]

My heart is sad for you at this time. I know how special the bond is between the beloved dog(working or pet) and his/her person. I imagine you will still see him out of the corner of your eye, listen for his toe nails on the floor, sometimes even think you can still smell them. It gets better, but it can take awhile. I wish I could lend you my big yellow dog just for a few hugs. I'll give her some extra hugs tonight and tell her it is from Reno and his mommy.

 

What Sunshine said! If I could, I'd send you Toby and Tyler to keep you company. Of course, no one will ever take Reno's place.

 

What you had to do was the last gift of love you could give him. I hope you'll be able to take time to grieve during what sounds like a hectic time for you. How is your grandson taking the loss? It's hard on kids who are old enough to understand death but too young to really process it.

 

Lots of virtual hugs to you,

 

Kathi (and the menagerie)

[Valentine's Mom]

Oh SS, As I write this message to you I have crockadile tears running down both cheeks. Valentine is alert and trying to lick them off as I explain, to her, that another angle friend has gone to prepare the way for her. Thinking that she is 7 years old brings to reality the short time that we have whith them on this earth. Within 1 year I lost a dog, a cat, and a bird. Needless to say it was a alful year and we needed a change. Without a pet we up and moved to AL. Believe me, I think about them every day and give my Valentine an extra hug each from them. I'd also like to pass a couple to those hugs and good thoughts on to you and yours.:confused::confused:

[dvdfreakmc]

Nancy, I am very sorry to hear about Reno. You are in our thoughts.

[sunshine426]

Does any one have any advise on life jackets for dogs. We're going to take our lab on the boat and to the lake this year, instead of always leaving her at home. Even though she can swim, I want a life jacket for her. I've been looking online and at the pet store, but thought I would ask for some tips here.

[Valentine's Mom]

Sunshine,

We use a jacket by Outward Bound. They are bright orange with black piping. They have a handle on top in case you have to grab them out of the water, of course that might be easier for me with a 10 lb. dog and not Lab sized and weight. LOL. They are a good brand and I think it's the brand used by most here. I think I got mine at PetsMart. She is little and even smaller if she has had a recent haircut so I wanted to size her. Might take a look. They are open to sizing and will offer help.:D

[sunshine426]

Thanks, that is one that we are looking at, also one by "Paws Aboard". I'll put a picture on once we decide.

[wizard-of-roz]

Sunshine' date='

We use a jacket by Outward Bound. They are bright orange with black piping. They have a handle on top in case you have to grab them out of the water, of course that might be easier for me with a 10 lb. dog and not Lab sized and weight. LOL. They are a good brand and I think it's the brand used by most here. I think I got mine at PetsMart. She is little and even smaller if she has had a recent haircut so I wanted to size her. Might take a look. They are open to sizing and will offer help.:D[/quote']

 

This is exactly the one we bought for Brenda....then, Princess would have one waiting on the bed, (not the Outward Hound ones but a nice one) when we arrived on our last two cruises. (That was so thoughtful of them to have these vests available for our Service Dogs.) The other cruiselines have not done this yet....hopefully, they'll get onboard too!

[Valentine's Mom]

This is exactly the one we bought for Brenda....then, Princess would have one waiting on the bed, (not the Outward Hound ones but a nice one) when we arrived on our last two cruises. (That was so thoughtful of them to have these vests available for our Service Dogs.) The other cruiselines have not done this yet....hopefully, they'll get onboard too!

 

Wow that is GREAT. People always laugh and point when we show up with Valentine in her life vest. I just look at them and tell them she is a good swimmer but can't swim that far :rolleyes:. I really don't know what they think that these animals would do in an emergency like ship abandoning. I'm glad that Princess is realizing just how valuable these animals are and that they are offering some protection for them. I do however, wonder if they would have one small enough for Valentine. I guess they might if they know that service dogs come in small and extra small as well as large. LOL

[wizard-of-roz]

Barbara, I have no idea how they knew what size to get Brenda but it was perfect.

You may want to contact the access deparment and see if you can request a special size.

Although, you really don't need it, you're all set. And, I always put on Brenda's vest for the muster drill. I want everyone to know that she's as important to me as my family. :) I want her to be safe.

[sunshine426]

Thanks for the advice. We bought "Sandy" the outward hound jacket (and of course a new pink leash, and a portable water bowl)! She has to share the leash and bowl with the SD's in training, but the life jacket is for her alone. I got a bright neon green one. I saw some in camoflage on the internet. Not to make judgments on the fashion style of camo, but if my dog goes in the water, I want to see her!!!

[jmartinez1895]

I hope that you may be able to help. I was told be another SD owner that before they could cruise on the Disney line they had to fill out paper work for the dog, provide a vet statement and show "proof" the dog is a SD. Is that true and do other lines do that as well. If so was "proof" do you need to provide. I live in a state that does not require or even have a certification process for SDs. Thanks for any help and advice.

[sunshine426]

I hope that you may be able to help. I was told be another SD owner that before they could cruise on the Disney line they had to fill out paper work for the dog, provide a vet statement and show "proof" the dog is a SD. Is that true and do other lines do that as well. If so was "proof" do you need to provide. I live in a state that does not require or even have a certification process for SDs. Thanks for any help and advice.

 

You have come to a great thread to ask that question. I only work with SD's in training, so have no answers for you, but I am sure they will come. Welcome Aboard.

[S.S. Cruisers]

Thank you all so much. I knew if anyone would understand it would be you great group of folks. I definately didn't need the "It's only a dog, line that always pops up." Unfortunatlely, I have been so busy with mom and her issues, I have yet to grieve completely. It comes on and the tears flow. I know we will never replace him and he is in a better place.

I am glad for all the friends he has, even the "bratty" ones to teach him goodness knows what! His kitty has been walking around from room to room looking for him, meowing. She is not much of a talker. I am pretty sad about Travis' attitude, he has pretty much blown it off. He said, "Reno always barked at me anyway." I hope he comes to gripes with it or maybe that is his way of dealing with it.

Anyway, hugs to all of you, for you and the furbabies.

Nancy

[wizard-of-roz]

First: Nancy, I think that Travis's way of dealing with the loss of Reno is to turn it into "we're better off without him" kind of an attitude....it's a coping mechanism that a lot of children and even some adults use. Just keep letting him know how much "you" loved Reno and how it's okay to feel sad and even to cry about the loss of him.....because, it truly is!

Feelings aren't "right" or "wrong", they just are! And, we all feel differently.......Sorry, I worked with a grief counselor years ago....and, learned some techniques (not that it would work for me the day that I have to say goodbye to Brenny.....I can't even go to that thought!)

Second: jmartinez: EVERY cruise line (not to mention the various ports, you'll be visiting) will ask for documentation of your dog for proof that it is a Service Dog. From a letter from your doctor; a city license; an Agricultural Inspection Form; a blood titer test; a chip; recent immunizations, etc., etc. It depends on the ports you'll visiting.

Hawaii and England have NEVER had a case of reported Rabbies and is so strict about bringing animals in. They used to quarantine ALL dogs coming in....they no longer quarantine Service Dogs.....that tooks years of struggling from a lot of brave people, who paved the way for the rest of us!

The organization that trained Brenda also gives all of its graduate teams a Certification of Training License with an expiration date on it (this is not required but certainly is handy when questioned!) I think that ALL organizations who train these highly skilled dogs should give their recipients some kind of certification of training. Maybe, in the future they will.

The ships will be very careful that your dog is safe to be around the public and will not be a threat or danger, in any way to anybody!!!!

Brenda will be on her 11th cruise in April....the dock workers, the TSA, the Security at the docks, the ship Captains and the staff are very familiar with Brenda and how amazing she is in the public.