RCCL New Smoking Policy Discussion (merged)

[dc-snoopy]

Edit: I see snoopy already made this point above as I was typing. He must be a rocket scientist, too. :D

 

No...I just work with rocket scientists all day.

 

I do work for NASA but I am a computer system adminstrator. I have been working around rocket scientists and astrophysicists for 15 years now...maybe it's rubbed off? :)

[Mark_K]

IF YOU WANT NON-SMOKING CASINOS, SAIL ON PRINCESS. THEY HAVE GONE COMPLETELY NON-SMOKING FOR HALF OF THE CRUISE in the Casino.

 

Of course, the casinos are almost completely empty on those nights because, as Carnival learned long ago....GAMBLERS ARE ALSO SMOKERS AND DRINKERS! That is why the Carnival Paradise had to allow smoking after its 6 year experiment--the Paradise bled money without the smokers.

That's not what Carnival said. They said it did well financially, and the reason was because it was going to be the only ship doing those itineraries.

 

Carnival Cruise Lines is snuffing out its own smoking ban on the Paradise . . .

 

The change will take effect Sept. 20, as the 2,052-passenger Paradise replaces its sister ship, the Ecstasy, on three- and four-day cruises out of Long Beach to Santa Catalina Island and Ensenada, Mexico. Because Paradise will be the only Carnival ship on that route, the company can't limit it just to nonsmokers, Bob Dickinson, Carnival's president and chief executive, said earlier this month.

From the start, the ship had trouble attracting group bookings because most include at least some smokers. However, it has been "hugely popular with families," some specialized organizations such as doctors and physical-fitness buffs, and with people allergic to smoke, said Jennifer de la Cruz, a Carnival spokeswoman. . . .

 

Carnival had a different view. "The Paradise's smoke-free concept was very much a success," De la Cruz said. "Financially, it actually outperformed what it would have done … as a smoking ship on a seven-day Caribbean deployment."

[elou]

Sorry to say I smoke. BUT, my question is I just never liked the taste of alcohol. So, I do not drink. I'd love to know why do people drink? Does it give them a high? Can't they have fun without drinking on the ship. What upsets me is when the ships open some bars at 9a.m. To me, this is for drunks. We know the ship makes MONEY from this, but I can't understand what drinking does for people. My addiction/high is smoking. What about drinkers? Just curious. How come drinking does not fall under their vitality/wellness program?

[EMTgoneNUTZ]

No, your analogy is faulty. All RCI has stated is that smokers cause an increased risk of fire due to them having combustible products (matches and lighters) and lit products. This does not equate by any means to ALL. It says that smokers as a group have one additional risk factor that is significant in increasing the risk of fires. It doesn't say they are necessarily more careless, but that the risk goes up when there is a group of passengers that regularly handles combustible materials and fire. And insurance companies charge them more if there is indoor smoking (I know I was asked from my homeowners insurance policy if anyone in the household smoked indoors). And I would guess for a cruiseline that allowing passengers to smoke inside staterooms is more expensive insurance-wise than not allowing smoking inside staterooms.

 

The analogy is closer to saying that male drivers under 25 are a greater risk and they charge higher insurance rates to cover them. It doesn't state that all males under 25 are careless and costly, it says that the risk to insure them is higher due to the higher rate of claims. I had one minor accident when I was under 25 and although it was not very costly, my rates from 18-25 for auto insurance cost more than twice what my rate was after I passed 25. The difference in rates for my premium for those 7 years was about 4 times what the accident cost, but I had to pay the premium to ensure I was covered. But, I paid it. I had the choice to not pay and either drive uninsured or not drive. I paid.

 

RCI has made the decision to restrict the smoking. You can adhere to the policy or sail another cruise line or pay the penalty.

 

Look, I'm not disagreeing with the risk of fire, increasing costs of insurance, etc. My response was to the post that A fire aboard A ship was started by A smoker......therefore I responded that just because A smoker was careless on A ship and started A fire, does NOT mean that ALL smokers are careless and start fires. I followed it up with the fact that it sounds AS RIDICULOUS as saying that just because A man gets into A car accident doesn't mean that ALL men who drive cars will get into an accident. I'M the one talking COMPROMISE here, as opposed to all of those who are saying it SHOULD be all smoking or SHOULD be all non smoking, so take your "FLAMES" (pun intended;) ) to those who are insistent, not trying to come to an agreeable resolution that would make THE MAJORITY happy (and no folks, obviously the NON's are NOT the majority, otherwise you wouldn't have so many people upset with the new policy...eh?)

I'm not the fighting type...I'm the compromising type, the type that likes to please everyone, so please don't take my opinions to be any different than your own....MY OPINIONS, to which I am entitled just as much as you are and I haven't said that anyone's opinions here are wrong, dumb, etc. as some do. Nor am I telling others to "sail another line"....I think I'm actually being quite pleasant, am I not?:cool:

Happy cruising

[xpcdoojk]

I have decided that reading this thread is a lot like sitting and watching a glass doored front load washing machine.:rolleyes: I take that back. My washing machine is more techically interesting. ;)

 

jc

[alcheme]

Sorry to say I smoke. BUT, my question is I just never liked the taste of alcohol. So, I do not drink. I'd love to know why do people drink? Does it give them a high? Can't they have fun without drinking on the ship. What upsets me is when the ships open some bars at 9a.m. To me, this is for drunks. We know the ship makes MONEY from this, but I can't understand what drinking does for people. My addiction/high is smoking. What about drinkers? Just curious. How come drinking does not fall under their vitality/wellness program?

 

Lots of questions buried in this post, but I'll take a stab at some of them. Some people drink for the high they feel when they're drunk, but more often, it's just a little bit relaxing to have alcohol in smaller doses. I'm not much of a drinker, but I really like wine, especially red wines. It's a bit of an acquired taste, but I'm hooked on it now. It's not about getting drunk, for me, though. But I can definitely have fun w/o drinking. Most people can, but I think sometimes having a drink gives them an excuse to let loose a little bit. They can always fall back on blaming it on the alcohol. ;)

 

Do they really open the bars at 9am, btw? That does seem to be a bit early.

 

The vitality program does meantion healthful drinks, as well. As that program hasn't fully rolled out yet, I doubt anyone know for sure what it will include.

[EMTgoneNUTZ]

That's not what Carnival said. They said it did well financially, and the reason was because it was going to be the only ship doing those itineraries.

 

Carnival Cruise Lines is snuffing out its own smoking ban on the Paradise . . .

 

The change will take effect Sept. 20, as the 2,052-passenger Paradise replaces its sister ship, the Ecstasy, on three- and four-day cruises out of Long Beach to Santa Catalina Island and Ensenada, Mexico. Because Paradise will be the only Carnival ship on that route, the company can't limit it just to nonsmokers, Bob Dickinson, Carnival's president and chief executive, said earlier this month.

From the start, the ship had trouble attracting group bookings because most include at least some smokers. However, it has been "hugely popular with families," some specialized organizations such as doctors and physical-fitness buffs, and with people allergic to smoke, said Jennifer de la Cruz, a Carnival spokeswoman. . . .

 

Carnival had a different view. "The Paradise's smoke-free concept was very much a success," De la Cruz said. "Financially, it actually outperformed what it would have done … as a smoking ship on a seven-day Caribbean deployment."

 

OK, so I've got a question then....if, indeed, Carnival was telling "the whole truth" here, and non-smoking ship really WAS a "success", then how come there isn't at least one ship in each and every fleet that is 100% smoke free? I mean, you all keep saying that the non-smokers are the majority, so if that's true, then there shouldn't be any problem keeping both smoking and non-smoking ships running at full capacity:confused:

I agree with one of the above posters...this discussion is getting more and more bizarre...and ridiculous. Of course, it's no surprise....every time this subject comes up, all it ends up to be is a bashing between non-smokers and smokers. It's really too bad, because if, as adults, we could all come to agreements, it would be a great first step for the cruise industry as far as being able to please "the majority". And as far as I'm concerned....with all of the "fall offs" of late, I'm sure that alcohol consumption is contributing to rising insurance rates as well. In fact I think I will begin to research this so that I can back MY theories up with facts, rather than just "blowing smoke".....:rolleyes:

[EMTgoneNUTZ]

I have decided that reading this thread is a lot like sitting and watching a glass doored front load washing machine.:rolleyes: I take that back. My washing machine is more techically interesting. ;)

 

jc

 

And yet you continue to watch it....round, and round, and round......:rolleyes: ;)

[bluejeans]

I have decided that reading this thread is a lot like sitting and watching a glass doored front load washing machine.:rolleyes: I take that back. My washing machine is more techically interesting. ;)

 

jc

 

Go watch your washer :D

 

The dryer is fascinating too. :)

[xpcdoojk]

Go watch your washer :D

 

The dryer is fascinating too. :)

 

When our old top load washer died several years ago, I didn't see any reason to buy a new dryer, so I have an old fashioned dryer that doesn't have a glass door. Plus the dryer (I think) only spins in one direction which is extra monotonous. That would only be like reading 1/2 of the posts on this thread. ;)

 

jc

[pmshirl]

I do understand that smokers can fall asleep in a cabin (bedroom) and cause fires, more so than be careless in a casino. An insurance company is not going to ask , how many rooms, areas is smoking allowed, and base one inside area more than another inside area! If you allow smoking, you pay the premuim, that is required , When a fire starts, whether it is in the cabin, casino, balcony, etc. etc. the insurance company pays for the repairs. Therfore insurance companies are pricing you for replacing that item. Yes, there may be an extra premium due for certain risk factors, but I highly doubt it is based on one inside area, compared to another inside area! Do you think if a gas station has 10 pumps and another has 6 pumps, the premuim is higher because its a higher risk factor with 4 extra pumps? The premuim is based on the replacement value on the building and contents, the liabilty is based on whatever amount of liability coverage you request for that policy and deem needed .

[ShedQueen77]

It is a disgrace that most insurance companies and employeers will not help smokers quit.My insurance has a wellness program to help with weight loss,and quitting smoking among other things.Its through our group insurance at work.You would think that more companies would do this as an healthy employee would take less time off than unhealthy ones.On the other hand some corps may feel death benifits are cheaper

 

Agreed 150% Most insurance companies will not pay for Chantix but will pay for *****. They won't pay for the possibility of someone quitting a potentially fatal habit but will pay for a guy to be able to get it up. Bad priorities and twisted logic, that's for sure. :mad:

[bluejeans]

When our old top load washer died several years ago, I didn't see any reason to buy a new dryer, so I have an old fashioned dryer that doesn't have a glass door. Plus the dryer (I think) only spins in one direction which is extra monotonous. That would only be like reading 1/2 of the posts on this thread. ;)

 

jc

 

too funny ;)

[Mark_K]

OK, so I've got a question then....if, indeed, Carnival was telling "the whole truth" here, and non-smoking ship really WAS a "success", then how come there isn't at least one ship in each and every fleet that is 100% smoke free? I mean, you all keep saying that the non-smokers are the majority, so if that's true, then there shouldn't be any problem keeping both smoking and non-smoking ships running at full capacity:confused:

Other than your "belief", do you have any evidence that Carnival isn't telling the whole truth? The simpler course for them when people complained about losing it as a non-smoking ship would have been for them to say, "we tried, but it just didn't make it financially".

[EMTgoneNUTZ]

Smoking in bedrooms is considered one of the greatest hazards of indoor smoking. Hence there is a very different standard for a private sleeping area like the cabins vs public areas like the Casino. Hotels have had this problem for years. The insurance rates for allowing smoking in sleeping rooms in hotels is significantly higher than just about any other room in the hotel. The same should be true for the cruise industry.

 

I agree fully, and having worked EMS and Fire/Rescue, have seen first hand what smoking in bed can do. I also mentioned earlier that smoking is prohibited in bed, at least I saw it in the contract/rules on RCCL when I sailed the Jewel last Feb, and I believe I read it on CCL's contract too back in '01. I can't vouch for other lines as I've only cruised those two thus far. And just for the record, personally, I think smoking in bed is just plain irresponsible, ESPECIALLY while laying down! But there's also a difference between smoking at the desk or table, thank smoking in bed. I live in a small apartment. When I smoke at my desk, I'm not smoking in bed, and it's highly unlikely I'm going to tuck myself in to sleep on my desk and even more unlikely I'm going to do so with a lit cigarette in my hand/mouth:rolleyes:

I just don't like basing my opinion of people on the acts of others. And I totally feel that everyone is entitled to make choices in life, and I think chosing whether to have a smoking room or non-smoking room, on a ship, hotel, restaurant, etc. should be a choice everyone is able to make. Nobody should be forced to book a smoking room, just as nobody should be forced not to be able to. But, once again, that's JMHO. (and apparently, the opinion of many others as well)

[EMTgoneNUTZ]

Go watch your washer

 

The dryer is fascinating too.

 

Heck, be happy you HAVE a washer and dryer! I sure as heck wish I did! (I live in an apt. complex and while there is a washer hook up, there is no dryer hook up, although we do have clotheslines out back-such a GREAT idea...hanging out wet laundry in Michigan in January!:rolleyes: :D ) Right now I'm trying to find one of those combo washer/dryer units that is ventless, like they use in RV's? I've seen some on eBay for reasonable prices, but the distance is so far and I don't have a truck. I can't see me strapping one of these units to the top of my lil ole Saturn:p

 

And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming....;)

[alcheme]

And I totally feel that everyone is entitled to make choices in life, and I think chosing whether to have a smoking room or non-smoking room, on a ship, hotel, restaurant, etc. should be a choice everyone is able to make.

 

Well, you can think that, but it's not the case. With the exception of areas where there is a law prohibiting smoking, it is the ship, hotel or restaurant's choice of whether to allow or not to allow you to smoke. The property does not belong to you, so why should you have any special right to be allowed to smoke there?

[bluejeans]

Heck, be happy you HAVE a washer and dryer! I sure as heck wish I did! (I live in an apt. complex and while there is a washer hook up, there is no dryer hook up, although we do have clotheslines out back-such a GREAT idea...hanging out wet laundry in Michigan in January!:rolleyes: :D ) Right now I'm trying to find one of those combo washer/dryer units that is ventless, like they use in RV's? I've seen some on eBay for reasonable prices, but the distance is so far and I don't have a truck. I can't see me strapping one of these units to the top of my lil ole Saturn:p

 

And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming....;)

 

I have one in my apartment, but there was a time when I shared the laundromat with the neighborhood. Didn't really care for that either.

[dc-snoopy]

I agree fully, and having worked EMS and Fire/Rescue, have seen first hand what smoking in bed can do. I also mentioned earlier that smoking is prohibited in bed, at least I saw it in the contract/rules on RCCL when I sailed the Jewel last Feb, and I believe I read it on CCL's contract too back in '01. I can't vouch for other lines as I've only cruised those two thus far. And just for the record, personally, I think smoking in bed is just plain irresponsible, ESPECIALLY while laying down! But there's also a difference between smoking at the desk or table, thank smoking in bed. I live in a small apartment. When I smoke at my desk, I'm not smoking in bed, and it's highly unlikely I'm going to tuck myself in to sleep on my desk and even more unlikely I'm going to do so with a lit cigarette in my hand/mouth:rolleyes:

 

I just don't like basing my opinion of people on the acts of others. And I totally feel that everyone is entitled to make choices in life, and I think chosing whether to have a smoking room or non-smoking room, on a ship, hotel, restaurant, etc. should be a choice everyone is able to make. Nobody should be forced to book a smoking room, just as nobody should be forced not to be able to. But, once again, that's JMHO. (and apparently, the opinion of many others as well)

 

And I, for one, have always argued that there needs to be at least some non-smoking cabins so that passengers have that choice that you ask for. I've never been one to promote all non-smoking cabins, but that is the choice that RCI has chosen to make. And, I'm sorry that I have no sympathy. Until this month, I have not had that choice unless I was willing to cruise the 6-star lines at $3000+ pp. The first non-smoking announcement for the mid-to-low priced cruises just came out earlier this month. So for the first time since the cancellation of the Paradise, I do have that choice. And so do you. If you want to sail in a cabin that allows smoking, you are free to select any of the lines that Carnival offers. Carnival is still the largest cruise line in the industry which means that there are more ships in Carnival that you can choose from. There are very few itineraries that RCI serves that Carnival does not. That means that effective January 1, 2008 we both *DO* have the choice of whether we want a smoking or non-smoking room. Until then, you have the choice of any cabin run by either cruise line and I have no choice for a non-smoking cabin.

[EMTgoneNUTZ]

Agreed 150% Most insurance companies will not pay for Chantix but will pay for *****. They won't pay for the possibility of someone quitting a potentially fatal habit but will pay for a guy to be able to get it up. Bad priorities and twisted logic, that's for sure.

 

AMEN Sister!!!!!! Thanks to my on the job injury-4 herniated discs and LOTS of other back/nerve problems related- (paramedic/fire/rescue) that, naturally WC doesn't believe is work related...go figure:rolleyes: ) and Social Security gladly took my money all those years but doesnt seem to want to give me any of it back in the form of Disability (filed a year ago, now had to hire an atty which will get 25% of whatever settlement I may end up getting God only knows how many years from now) I am now forced to have our oh-so-wonderful government healthcare:mad: , which means Medicaid won't cover Chandrix:( , and because I have no income, I certainly can't afford to pay for it out of pocket.

 

I'll tell you what...if any of you that don't want me to smoke on my balcony next to yours want to send me some Chandrix, or a check made out to my pharmacy to pay for it, I'll be MORE than happy to give it a try and work hard at quitting! Lord knows I've tried everything else, and I am certainly more concerned with quitting smoking (for the sake of my children and future grandchildren) than any "potential" future b/f's/husband's being able to get it up, let alone for up to 36 hours for pete's sake!:eek: :D

[NOT my real name]

it seems the smokers are the ones MOST willing to compromise

 

There would be room for compromise if second hand smoke were merely annoying or an inconvenience to others. But it is much more than that. Second hand smoke causes death and disease to people other than the smoker.

[bluejeans]

AMEN Sister!!!!!! Thanks to my on the job injury-4 herniated discs and LOTS of other back/nerve problems related- (paramedic/fire/rescue) that, naturally WC doesn't believe is work related...go figure:rolleyes: ) and Social Security gladly took my money all those years but doesnt seem to want to give me any of it back in the form of Disability (filed a year ago, now had to hire an atty which will get 25% of whatever settlement I may end up getting God only knows how many years from now) I am now forced to have our oh-so-wonderful government healthcare:mad: , which means Medicaid won't cover Chandrix:( , and because I have no income, I certainly can't afford to pay for it out of pocket.

 

I'll tell you what...if any of you that don't want me to smoke on my balcony next to yours want to send me some Chandrix, or a check made out to my pharmacy to pay for it, I'll be MORE than happy to give it a try and work hard at quitting! Lord knows I've tried everything else, and I am certainly more concerned with quitting smoking (for the sake of my children and future grandchildren) than any "potential" future b/f's/husband's being able to get it up, let alone for up to 36 hours for pete's sake!:eek: :D

 

What a great laugh to a great day!!!!

Thanks for that, I needed it.

My insurance also pays for the getty up pill, but won't pay for the new pill to quit smoking. Go figure!!!!!!

Many people at work have tried to quit smoking unsuccessfully, and would love to try it, but can't afford it.

[EMTgoneNUTZ]

Other than your "belief", do you have any evidence that Carnival isn't telling the whole truth? The simpler course for them when people complained about losing it as a non-smoking ship would have been for them to say, "we tried, but it just didn't make it financially".

 

Well, I could say the same to you...do you have any evidence that they did tell the whole truth? We all know companies lie all the time when it comes to the media....and I didn't say they DID lie, I just put the possibility out there. And for the record, that WAS a sincere question I was asking. Since I'm not a marketing major I figured perhaps someone might be able to give me an honest answer, rather than, yet again, insulting my "beliefs"....:rolleyes:

[EMTgoneNUTZ]

I do understand that smokers can fall asleep in a cabin (bedroom) and cause fires, more so than be careless in a casino. An insurance company is not going to ask , how many rooms, areas is smoking allowed, and base one inside area more than another inside area! If you allow smoking, you pay the premuim, that is required , When a fire starts, whether it is in the cabin, casino, balcony, etc. etc. the insurance company pays for the repairs. Therfore insurance companies are pricing you for replacing that item. Yes, there may be an extra premium due for certain risk factors, but I highly doubt it is based on one inside area, compared to another inside area! Do you think if a gas station has 10 pumps and another has 6 pumps, the premuim is higher because its a higher risk factor with 4 extra pumps? The premuim is based on the replacement value on the building and contents, the liabilty is based on whatever amount of liability coverage you request for that policy and deem needed .

 

You bring up a valid point, and put another "spin"on this obviously VERY controversial topic. Thank you for contributing something other than flames!:)

[EMTgoneNUTZ]

Well, you can think that, but it's not the case. With the exception of areas where there is a law prohibiting smoking, it is the ship, hotel or restaurant's choice of whether to allow or not to allow you to smoke. The property does not belong to you, so why should you have any special right to be allowed to smoke there?

 

For the exact same reason you shouldn't have any special right NOT to smoke there I guess.....touche'

Apparently, the opinions on this topic only belong to those who do not smoke, because those of us that DO smoke are the ones being told we don't have rights, we set fires, we are just BAD, BAD, ROTTEN, people....and by golly all those who don't smoke are just perfect angels who don't do anything ever that could be construed as offensive to others...so I'll leave this thread to all of you who's poo doesn't stink, but I'll still smoke on my balcony as long as the rules allow, and if you don't like it, well then I would suggest staying in forward, or inside cabins....because, by God, it's YOUR RIGHT!:rolleyes: