Non-Refundable Insurance Shocker

[hammybee]

Here is a copy of the summary from Hal's web site:

 

http://www.hollandamerica.com/policies/cancellationprotection.do?category=berkely

[hammybee]

Turns out one of the reasons HAL (and probably other cruise lines as well) stopped calling it port charges is that they do NOT return the non-discountable portion if you cancel. After my TA told me this, I went to HAL's website and found she was right.

 

I have canceled and been credited for all non discountable fees. I can't find anything on the HAL web site that says they will not refund. Maybe I am looking in the wrong place.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Here is the page. I did a search with the words "Cancellation Policy". It's the only way I could find it.

 

According to my TA, in the past when it was called "port charges" they had to give it back for some reason. Now they simply call it "non-discountable fees" which is port charges and some other fees.

 

My agent told me that the taxes MAY be refundable...she wasn't sure, but that's a tiny portion of the cruise fare. It's the port charges that are huge (in my case between $600 and $700.)

 

I'm highlighting the section that applies and enlarging the print so you don't have to read the whole thing:

 

 

Planning & Advice:

Changes and Cancellations

 

Cancellation Policies

For most cruises and cruisetours, a full refund (except for amounts paid for Cancellation Protection Plan) will be made for written cancellations received by Holland America, 300 Elliott Ave. West, Seattle, WA 98119 at least 76 days before the date on which you are to commence travel (by air, rail, sea or otherwise). Passengers who cancel after that date for any reason, including medical or family reasons, are subject to the following per-person cancellation fees:

 

75-57 days before commencing travel: an amount equal to deposit requirement

56-29 days before commencing travel: 50% of gross fare

28-16 days before commencing travel: 75% of gross fare

15 days or less before commencing travel: 100% of gross fare

 

For certain cruises and cruisetours, different cancellation policies apply. Please consult the brochure for your cruise or cruisetour to confirm the applicable cancellation policy. Cancellation fees apply to the entire cruise booking, including cruise fare, non-discountable amounts, air add-ons, ground transfers, pre-cruise and post-cruise hotel and tour packages.

 

Given that the resale of cancelled space will likely result in a lost opportunity to sell other space, these fees are due regardless of resale. Fees incurred as a result of cancellation cannot be applied to future bookings. Refunds will normally be made to your travel agent. Travel agents may impose their own cancellation fees. Agency fees of any nature are a matter to be decided on solely by the agency and passengers.

 

Name changes require the prior approval of Holland America and may not always be possible. Cruise and Cruisetour Contracts are nontransferable. Name changes and departure date changes are considered reservation cancellations and are subject to cancellation fees.

[hammybee]

Here is the page. I did a search with the words "Cancellation Policy". It's the only way I could find it.

 

According to my TA, in the past when it was called "port charges" they had to give it back for some reason. Now they simply call it "non-discountable fees" which is port charges and some other fees.

 

My agent told me that the taxes MAY be refundable...she wasn't sure, but that's a tiny portion of the cruise fare. It's the port charges that are huge (in my case between $600 and $700.)

 

I'm highlighting the section that applies and enlarging the print so you don't have to read the whole thing:

 

 

Cancellation fees apply to the entire cruise booking, including cruise fare, non-discountable amounts, air add-ons, ground transfers, pre-cruise and post-cruise hotel and tour packages.

 

Thank you Heather. I am still not seeing where it says if you cancel, you don't get the non-discountable amounts back. What I am seeing is that cruise fare, non-discountables, air fare, transfers and hotels are all subject to the cancellation fee. Am I having a blonde moment?

[HeatherInFlorida]

:) Hammy, no I don't think you're having a moment;) .... I think they make it as confusing as possible. Remember I'm using two sources ... my TA and the HAL policy copied above.

 

This is how I read it. They are saying that when they say there's a penalty of 50%, 75%, 100% (depending on when you cancel your cruise), your "cancellation fee" is the percentage of the TOTAL CRUISE FARE which includes (the part I highlighted) "non-discountable amounts".

 

So let's say you cancel your cruise 14 days before you sail. Your "cancellation fee" is 100% of your cruise. if your cruise costs $1000 and the non-discountable amount of that is $100, you will not get the $100 back from HAL. In other words, your "fee" will be $1000.

 

So if I want to insure the cost of my cruise I have to insure $1000, not $900.

 

From prior posts, I was under the impression I could insure $900 and HAL would refund me the "non-discountable" amount of $100.

 

I probably made it even more confusing:o , but that's how it was explained to me.:) If I'm wrong, and I'd love to be!!! ... hopefully someone will post and explain it. I have to book the insurance in the next couple of days before final payment.

[mr green]

John, well, I don't mind the shore excursions in advance, probably because I don't do that many with HAL, but here is another take. We booked/paid for a few in late 2006 for summer 2007. They went up in price. Guess what? We were already locked in at the lower rate.

 

To pay as much as $1,000.00, twelve months in advance, cashing in stock to do it, makes no sense to me, whether I lock in a lower price or not. I know at least when and more or less what I will have to pay have to pay, so, I get what I need, only when I need it, and not when HAL wants it. Doing it this way has saved me quite a bit, over the years.

 

john

[Jade13]

To pay as much as $1,000.00, twelve months in advance, cashing in stock to do it, makes no sense to me, whether I lock in a lower price or not. I know at least when and more or less what I will have to pay have to pay, so, I get what I need, only when I need it, and not when HAL wants it. Doing it this way has saved me quite a bit, over the years.

 

john

 

I understand that, but also note that I don't think you could book excursions 12 months in advance. I could be wrong, but ours are not available for next summer.

[doone]

I look at it like trip insurance is like car insurance, you don't get it back just because you didn't have an accident. Maybe I am wrong at how I look at it, but I have never known of any insurance that you get back because you didn't have to use it.

[hammybee]

 

So let's say you cancel your cruise 14 days before you sail. Your "cancellation fee" is 100% of your cruise. if your cruise costs $1000 and the non-discountable amount of that is $100, you will not get the $100 back from HAL. In other words, your "fee" will be $1000.

 

So if I want to insure the cost of my cruise I have to insure $1000, not $900.

 

From prior posts, I was under the impression I could insure $900 and HAL would refund me the "non-discountable" amount of $100.

 

I probably made it even more confusing:o , but that's how it was explained to me.:) If I'm wrong, and I'd love to be!!! ... hopefully someone will post and explain it. I have to book the insurance in the next couple of days before final payment.

 

Heather,

It's a new day and I read it again and again and I see your point. I also agree that when port charges and taxes became "non-discountable amounts", the policy changed as it relates to recovery.

 

I also noted in the fine print of HAL's own insurance that when a travel agency is involved in a cancelled cruise, HAL can only refund what was paid to them by the travel agency. The consumer has to potentially chase down the portion of the fare that became commission with their travel agency, subject to the agency's own cancellation policies.

 

Cruising is easy. Cancelling a cruise after final payment date is tricky stuff. Thank you for your patience while I got myself up to speed.:)

[katiebeth]

Dear Doone,

 

I think my point is that Holland America's policy is clearly different than Celebrity's. And IMHO, Celebrity's makes more sense. It was certainly my fault for not realizing that the two policies are different. As I stated earlier, in regards to Celebrity, you let them know whether or not you want their insurance at the time of initial booking. However, you don't pay for it until your final payment when the penalties for cancellation go into effect and the need for the insurance would begin. Their policy may be the exception and not the rule, but one that I had assumed was fairly standard for all cruise lines.

 

I am not sure I am following your car analogy. I have paid for trip insurance many many times and fortunately have never filed a claim. In no way do I think I should receive a refund as the insurance company assumed a risk.

 

 

However, I think the issue with insurance as it relates to Holland America is different. Up until the time of final payment, (Sept.4) there was no risk that I could have filed a claim, as there was no possibility of any type of loss. In addition, since I won't be cruising, there is no risk for trip delay, medical expenses, lost luggage etc. (which part of the premium clearly goes toward). In my mind (as small as it may be) the logic seems "off". It would make more sense that the insurance is non-refundable at the time of final payment, at which time risk is assumed. (maybe it's just me, but it seems more logical).

 

Regardless, I learned a lesson and am grateful to all of those who took time to post. I love these boards because they are a great place to exchange valuable information. Everything worked out in the end, and my insurance was transferred to a cruise on the Eurodam in Nov. 2008. I can't wait to cruise on a brand new ship. The last time I cruised on a new ship was the Constellation in 2003. I LOVED it.

 

As the saying goes ...."all is well that ends well !!.

 

Happy Sailings! Truthfully, I am happy to have such "problems". I am so grateful that we have the means and the health to travel!!

 

Nancy

[doone]

Nancy, you are absolutely correct, after reading all these posts, HAL's is different than Celebrity's, which I am sure alot of people were not aware of until you unfortunately had it happen to you. I think alot of people learned a lesson here. I have never booked cruise line insurance as I feel you get better coverage at a cheaper rate using a 3rd party insurance company. I am one who has to get the insurance and pay for it because of pre-existing health issues.

 

I guess I just feel that if you say you want something, you pay for it at that time. When I say I want insurance for my trip, I pay for it at that time. If I decide I want it later, I purchase and pay for it later. I guess it would be a surprise thinking all cruise lines do it the same way.

 

I am glad things worked out well for you, enjoy your cruise.

[HeatherInFlorida]

:) Hammy, I really don't think they WANT us to understand it and make it confusing on purpose.

 

You are so right ... cruising is fun, insurance isn't. It's the price we pay ... and I'll gladly pay it!!:D

[Jade13]

Dear Doone,

 

I think my point is that Holland America's policy is clearly different than Celebrity's. And IMHO, Celebrity's makes more sense. It was certainly my fault for not realizing that the two policies are different. As I stated earlier, in regards to Celebrity, you let them know whether or not you want their insurance at the time of initial booking. However, you don't pay for it until your final payment when the penalties for cancellation go into effect and the need for the insurance would begin. Their policy may be the exception and not the rule, but one that I had assumed was fairly standard for all cruise lines.

 

I am not sure I am following your car analogy. I have paid for trip insurance many many times and fortunately have never filed a claim. In no way do I think I should receive a refund as the insurance company assumed a risk.

 

 

However, I think the issue with insurance as it relates to Holland America is different. Up until the time of final payment, (Sept.4) there was no risk that I could have filed a claim, as there was no possibility of any type of loss. In addition, since I won't be cruising, there is no risk for trip delay, medical expenses, lost luggage etc. (which part of the premium clearly goes toward). In my mind (as small as it may be) the logic seems "off". It would make more sense that the insurance is non-refundable at the time of final payment, at which time risk is assumed. (maybe it's just me, but it seems more logical).

 

Nancy

 

Nancy, There is still some issue with Celebrity that I am not clear about and that is how the time of payment relates to pre-existing conditions. I need to call them. On their short itineraries they only take a $100 deposit, which is nice. But, I'm unclear if you request the insurance if you have to pay for it before final payment in order to cover pre-existing conditions. I def read somewhere (either Celebrity or Princess) that the sooner you pay for it the sooner you are covered. The Celeb reps def don't give you any info when you book your cruise.

 

We don't think we have any pre-existing but an incident with my stepdaughter in her Med records could potentially be used to deny a claim and that would be huge for med evac. Also, the friend she plans to take has had major surgery and I read something about change in conditions at 60 days before the insurance is purchased, so is it "purchased" once it's showing on your bill or when it'd paid for at final payment? The one thing about HAL is that it covers pre-existing conditions for everyone (even a 90 year old) and there is no "may". Also, btw, I re-read Celeb's cancel for any reason and it states you "may" receive cruise credit up to 75% - what's that about?...Hal costs a lot more but the policy is clear.

[arzz]

Just recently claimed on a canceled cruise and we discovered that you do need to be insured for the full amount (port charges, taxes, etc) -- our TA slipped up on that but we got it all worked out and got everything back except the cost of the insurance itself. (The canceled cruise was on Princess -- the insurance was with CSA -- pre-existing conditions covered if insurance is paid for at final payment). Princess did place a credit on our credit card on the day we canceled (about 36 hours before the cruise) for an amorphous amount of money that we have never been able to correlate with either taxes, port charges or any understandable fraction thereof -- the rest of the money came back to us from the insurance company.

 

We canceled for medical reasons, though not a pre-existing condition. Our policy said that it covered pre-existing conditions -- but you if you were hospitalized for a particular condition on the day that you take out your insurance that condition would not be covered. In other words, you cannot book a cruise and buy a policy when you are ill betting that you will be better in time to travel. At least not if you expect the insurance to cover cancellation if that particular condition prevents you form traveling.

 

Bottom line, whatever policy you use you need to be sure to read the fine print and understand what it is that you have purchased.

[JLC@SD]

I relunctantly called Holland America this morning to cancel or cruise and found out much to my surprise that while our deposit was fully refundable (final payment was not due until Sept. 4th), the $536 we paid for insurance is not. I really was shocked and obviously rather upset about losing that amount of money.Any information would be greatly appreciated. Nancy

 

deleted

[Jade13]

Just recently claimed on a canceled cruise and we discovered that you do need to be insured for the full amount (port charges, taxes, etc) -- our TA slipped up on that but we got it all worked out and got everything back except the cost of the insurance itself. (The canceled cruise was on Princess -- the insurance was with CSA -- pre-existing conditions covered if insurance is paid for at final payment). Princess

We canceled for medical reasons, though not a pre-existing condition. Our policy said that it covered pre-existing conditions -- but you if you were hospitalized for a particular condition on the day that you take out your insurance that condition would not be covered. In other words, you cannot book a cruise and buy a policy when you are ill betting that you will be better in time to travel. At least not if you expect the insurance to cover cancellation if that particular condition prevents you form traveling.

 

Bottom line, whatever policy you use you need to be sure to read the fine print and understand what it is that you have purchased.

 

Yes, I called Celebrity yesterday (they gave me the number of Berkley, so I can call and get the updated policys for both Celebrity and HAL). The rep said you are not covered for pre-existing until you pay for the insurance (which is not refundable - so while those are happy payment of the insurance for Celeb (and Princess) is not due until final payment, you take a risk of something happening before you purchase the insurance, and if you go on the cruise and get ill, that pre-existing condition will not be covered) - very confusing and def not being explained to Celebrity guests.

 

If I understand corrrectly, if someone has a heart attack 30 days before they buy the Celeb, or 30 days before final payment (you actually have to tell them when you want to pay for the insurance and most of us are not paying until we have to) or Princess Policy and then has a doctors clearance, still travels, and then has another heart attack on the ship requiring Med Evac, that condition is not covered even though those purchasing the insurance at final payment had no idea, because these reps don't explain. This is major if suddenly you receive a bill for that med evac. I believe this is what the rep was tring to tell me, but I won't be sure until I get copies of the policies.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Just recently claimed on a canceled cruise and we discovered that you do need to be insured for the full amount (port charges, taxes, etc) -- our TA slipped up on that but we got it all worked out and got everything back except the cost of the insurance itself. (The canceled cruise was on Princess -- the insurance was with CSA -- pre-existing conditions covered if insurance is paid for at final payment). Princess did place a credit on our credit card on the day we canceled (about 36 hours before the cruise) for an amorphous amount of money that we have never been able to correlate with either taxes, port charges or any understandable fraction thereof -- the rest of the money came back to us from the insurance company.

 

We canceled for medical reasons, though not a pre-existing condition. Our policy said that it covered pre-existing conditions -- but you if you were hospitalized for a particular condition on the day that you take out your insurance that condition would not be covered. In other words, you cannot book a cruise and buy a policy when you are ill betting that you will be better in time to travel. At least not if you expect the insurance to cover cancellation if that particular condition prevents you form traveling.

 

Bottom line, whatever policy you use you need to be sure to read the fine print and understand what it is that you have purchased.

 

arzz, thank you so much for posting this really valuable information. This is exactly what I have been told by my TA and what I gathered from reading the HAL site. It's very important for people to know.

 

There must have been a time where you could get away with insuring the cost of cruise less the port charges ... but no more. My TA did say she believes you get back the taxes (but not the fees). Taxes and fees are usually bundled together and it's a very small amount of money.

 

So last night I booked the CSA policy for the whole fare. So that's done:) ... it's only money! I'd rather kiss $250 good-bye than close to $5000!!

 

We're just so happy we can cruise at all.