Australian airline company discriminates against disabled! PLEASE READ!

[scooterrach]

Hi all,

I have been debating on whether or not to post this, but decided that it needs to be told. Below is an email that I wrote to my cousin who happens to be a travel agent. I'm also going to be posting this on the P&O Australia section. Please give me your feedback. I have not taken this any further and don't intend to, but I thought people needed to hear what happened to me.

 

"I looked online first to see the best price I could get and found Virgin was the cheapest and at the best times. I rang them, the first lady I spoke to was delightful. She told me that she just needed a few measurements of my chair and then could book my tickets. I said this was great as I had flown with Virgin late last year and had no problems. She then put me on hold and just needed to check the regulations, no probs so far. When she came back she asked me the height of my wheelchair. I measured and told her it was 120cm. She said that she couldn't see any issue but would put me through to the head office just in case.

I waited on hold for a while and was greeted by another staff member. She asked me the height of my wheelchair, I repeated 120cm. She proceeded to tell me, that my chair had to be 84cm or under. I took my headrest off and re-measured, told her it was now 100cm. She told me it had to be 84cm to travel.

 

I told her that I had travelled with Virgin in October last year to Queensland with the same equipment without any hassle, and asked what regulations had changed. She started to get quite angry and told me no regulations had been changed and my chair had to be 84cm or under to travel.

 

I told her that I'm a very small person, with a small wheelchair and no-one I know who uses an electric wheelchair has one under 84cm tall. She told me in a very stern way that if I contacted my manufacturer they would assure me that my chair could be broken down into pieces and would be able to travel. I told her that my chair was specially made and this cannot happen due to the fact that is welded together.

 

Once again I was greeted with "I assure you if you contact your manufacturer then they will tell you it can be taken apart". I asked her why is this ridiculous rule in place that my wheelchair has to only be 84cm tall? She replied, because Virgin knows that your wheelchair is your life and we will only take wheelchairs that are under 84cm that way it doesn't have to be laid down and therefore there is less risk of damaging it. I told her I wasn't happy with this and felt it was discrimination.

 

She then told me, now get this, "I will happily take your booking now and if you show up at the airport and the engineers can't put your wheelchair in then you cannot fly".

 

I got very angry, and told her this was ridiculous and I was not paying $6000 for a cruise that I could not go on because I was stranded at Perth Airport. I told her I was going to be contacting lawyers and TV stations because it was complete discrimination and I know many other people with disabilities who have had the same treatment.

 

She then asked me to warn Virgin before I took action by writing a complaint through their website. I hung up.

 

Why should I warn virgin when they had no intention of making it public that they do not want customers with disabilities?

 

Virgin knows my wheelchair is my life? No my wheelchair aids me in having a life and that's what I was trying to do by having a holiday!"

Thanks for reading this I hope it gets others worked up. I did receive a response from the company in their defense, however it says nothing except that is what their policy is.

[Aussie Cruisers]

Hi Scooterrach - I am so sorry that you had a rough phone call. I can understand how frustrated you feel. I feel that you need to try again, only because I may understand that it is true that your chair may be too large to be used to get you from the lounge to your seat on the plane. My understanding is that you need a narrower chair that will fit down the aisle of the plane, and that you will be transferred from your own chair (does it have a gel battery, or a liquid battery? as this will affect the dangerous goods regs for the flight) sometime in the boarding process.Anyway, I feel what you need to do is call back and ask to speak to a supervisor who is well read on special needs (ie, wheelchair pax) as well as the Dangerous Goods regulations. While I understand that you feel the Virgin rep was out of line, you will not get anywhere threatening people with the media. If all else fails, fly Qantas as they are very experienced with special needs passengers, and while they are a little more expensive, I know that they will not stuff you around.I am biased - I have never flown Virgin and prefer Qantas as they have experienced crew, and much nicer terminals! Good luck!Mark.

[mochuck]

I think you should take it further. Tabloid TV loves these stories. Why should you warn them? You tokld her on the phone that you would take it further - thats their warning. Fork them

[scooterrach]

Hi Scooterrach - I am so sorry that you had a rough phone call. I can understand how frustrated you feel. I feel that you need to try again, only because I may understand that it is true that your chair may be too large to be used to get you from the lounge to your seat on the plane. My understanding is that you need a narrower chair that will fit down the aisle of the plane, and that you will be transferred from your own chair (does it have a gel battery, or a liquid battery? as this will affect the dangerous goods regs for the flight) sometime in the boarding process.Anyway, I feel what you need to do is call back and ask to speak to a supervisor who is well read on special needs (ie, wheelchair pax) as well as the Dangerous Goods regulations. While I understand that you feel the Virgin rep was out of line, you will not get anywhere threatening people with the media. If all else fails, fly Qantas as they are very experienced with special needs passengers, and while they are a little more expensive, I know that they will not stuff you around.I am biased - I have never flown Virgin and prefer Qantas as they have experienced crew, and much nicer terminals! Good luck!Mark.

 

 

I understand where you are coming form, however I am an experienced traveller. My battery is dry cell, I did speak to their special assistance crew. I am a very small person, only weigh 40kg and am only 130cm tall. Now if I'm the size of an 8year old how do they expect people of normal size to use their service?

They are referring to my wheelchair getting in the cargo hold.

And yes I'm now flying Qantas.

[degarr]

Good choice with Qantas. Virgin Blue's's Ts & Cs do seem to confirm what they said on your call

http://www.virginblue.com.au/helpInfo/travelInfo/atTheAirport/index.php?section=Baggage+Information

The maximum dimensions of electric wheelchairs/mobility aids that can be carried on our aircraft are: 125cm in length, 100cm wide and 84cm in height.

 

Maybe it is a 737 Fleet thing but I would not have thought so. Have a great holiday jetting off with Qantas

[Quampapetet]

Is there anywhere else on their planes they can store WCs? Here in the States planes can store them in in-cabin closets (WCs get precedence over other passengers' clothes & bags) or you can use an empty seat next to you to store your wheelchair in the foot area that seat has (unless another disabled passenger needs that seat).

[Starr Mtn]

Is there anywhere else on their planes they can store WCs? Here in the States planes can store them in in-cabin closets (WCs get precedence over other passengers' clothes & bags) or you can use an empty seat next to you to store your wheelchair in the foot area that seat has (unless another disabled passenger needs that seat).

 

My understanding it is a Power Wheelchair ! They cannot fit on a plane .

Sounds as though for that specific plane the cargo hold opening is not

large enough to accomodate the power wheelchair .

[scooterrach]

My understanding it is a Power Wheelchair ! They cannot fit on a plane .

Sounds as though for that specific plane the cargo hold opening is not

large enough to accomodate the power wheelchair .

 

It is an electric wheelchair, and yeah they are saying it is too big for the cargo hold. Yet I travelled with the same company and same wheelchair on the same sized plane in October last year.

[Moeve]

Bear in mind that hold space comes at a premium around the rest of the world for paying Cargo. US passengers are spoilt as far that goes because air cargo is not that popular in the US. One just needs to look at the luggage allowances over there it is 2 pieces of 50 pounds in the rest of the world it it one piece of 20 Kg to open up air cargo. Also remember in the rest of the world all cargo for aircraft incl. Luggage is containerised.

[GRBlizz]

Bear in mind that hold space comes at a premium around the rest of the world for paying Cargo. US passengers are spoilt as far that goes because air cargo is not that popular in the US. One just needs to look at the luggage allowances over there it is 2 pieces of 50 pounds in the rest of the world it it one piece of 20 Kg to open up air cargo. Also remember in the rest of the world all cargo for aircraft incl. Luggage is containerised.

 

Good point, but it's interesting that this airline's allowances would permit a scooter but not a power wheelchair. Both take up roughly the same "airspace", but the powerchair is taller and less long front-to-back.

 

It could be the case that the particular aircraft that Virgin uses is not suited for a powerchair. Or it could be that Virgin has not updated their specs to account for the fact that some "power-mobility" users use chair instead of scooters. If I were the OP, I would at least contact Virgin's management to enquire.

[Queenie2]

The height restriction has to do with the height of the cargo doors. They don't want to tip the chair -- not an issue with scooters.

 

Virgin Blue has had problems for requiring attendants

http://barrierfreetravels.com/serendipity/archives/157-Virgin-Blue-Saga.html

and Qantas does have height limitations on powerchairs on what they consider their smaller aircraft (737s and below). Bottom line -- it depends on the aircraft, as someone pointed out earlier.

 

I've also seen this limitation placed on power wheelchairs on some of the smaller European carriers -- again it's because of the size of the aircraft.

 

Candy

[Hebe]

Is there anywhere else on their planes they can store WCs? Here in the States planes can store them in in-cabin closets (WCs get precedence over other passengers' clothes & bags) or you can use an empty seat next to you to store your wheelchair in the foot area that seat has (unless another disabled passenger needs that seat).

 

We have never had our manual chair stored in the plane closet or in a seat. Has anyone else ever seen this? Reason I am asking we have had to replace two manual chairs so far because of damage in the cargo hold. One time on Virgin Air -- it was split in two.

[JLC@SD]

Good choice with Qantas. Virgin Blue's's Ts & Cs do seem to confirm what they said on your call

http://www.virginblue.com.au/helpInfo/travelInfo/atTheAirport/index.php?section=Baggage+Information

The maximum dimensions of electric wheelchairs/mobility aids that can be carried on our aircraft are: 125cm in length, 100cm wide and 84cm in height.

 

Maybe it is a 737 Fleet thing but I would not have thought so. Have a great holiday jetting off with Qantas

 

I would think that if it is a posted policy.......and equally applied......OP should let the issue go.......and those with wheelchair now know that max height is 84 cm.

[chasetf]

It is an electric wheelchair, and yeah they are saying it is too big for the cargo hold. Yet I travelled with the same company and same wheelchair on the same sized plane in October last year.

Maybe you "got away with it" or "were not caught" last Oct on you chair size. It is reasonable for the airline to set restrictions based on their ability to accommodate within their limitations (like cargo door sizes).

[Quampapetet]

We have never had our manual chair stored in the plane closet or in a seat. Has anyone else ever seen this? Reason I am asking we have had to replace two manual chairs so far because of damage in the cargo hold. One time on Virgin Air -- it was split in two.

 

I'm the one who posted about it, but I have seen it. The dumb airline almost switched me to a non-bulkhead seat (I have a service dog and need that seat and called plenty well in advance to reserve it) because the couple next to me wanted their wheelchair in my seat. The airline realized the problem before I stepped onto the gateway and it took several minutes to fix (meanwhile, they let tons of other passengers on board while I just stood there). They took the chair and put it in the closet in the cabin of the plane. Then I was able to board and sit in my seat (which never should've been given away in the first place - that was illegal! But I got it back, so that was good).

 

They referred to it as "luggage", by the way. I didn't even know it was a wheelchair 'til after I'd sat down and either the stewardess or the woman passenger called it a wheelchair. (Can you imagine how ticked I was before I learned it was a piece of medical equipment?! I only kept hearing they'd given my seat away for somebody's luggage!!)