Technical question on ship safety?

[mountainhouse]

My brother was in the navy, many years ago. He's cruised once, but won't go again because he views cruise ships as unsafe (obviously, I don't agree :) ). His issue is the large open areas within modern cruise ships. He thinks the ship should be broken up into war tight sections, like a warship. I suspect cruise ships DO have this feature. I think it's just not as obvious.

 

I know several folks here are very well versed in the technical aspects of cruise ships. Can you give me some info that might get my brother cruising again? TIA!

[DanJ]

Tell him that what he sees at the dock is only part of the ship. If water were ever to make it up to where those big open atriums and theaters are, the ship would already be half submerged and beyond saving. On the Grand class, for example, the bottom passenger deck still has 4 decks below it, with all the appropriate water tight comparments.

[Pam in CA]

There are watertight compartments throughout the ship which can seal off sections pretty easily and quickly. For example, the Star fire was contained by the doors but spread through the balconies. It's extremely rare that a ship would be in such a situation where it would be in danger of sinking. While the Explorer is currently on everyone's minds, consider the incredible number of cruise ships and sailings throughout the world that have sailed safely, even in extremely inclement weather and sea conditions.

[Toto2Kansas]

My brother was in the navy, many years ago. He's cruised once, but won't go again because he views cruise ships as unsafe (obviously, I don't agree :) ). His issue is the large open areas within modern cruise ships. He thinks the ship should be broken up into war tight sections, like a warship. I suspect cruise ships DO have this feature. I think it's just not as obvious.

 

I know several folks here are very well versed in the technical aspects of cruise ships. Can you give me some info that might get my brother cruising again? TIA!

 

Even with the safety factor played, and todays modern ships do have lots of safety features. A Navy ship is made to go into battle, a cruise ship is not. Huge difference in the two and very difficult to compare. Someone that is always looking for "what if's" onboard a ship is not going to enjoy a cruise IMHO. I would probably give up trying to talk him into another one if he is worried about it sinking. I sure hope he doesn't have to fly to a cruise port if he decides to cruise again, more planes crash then cruise ships sink! ;)

[DanJ]

There are watertight compartments throughout the ship which can seal off sections pretty easily and quickly. For example, the Star fire was contained by the doors but spread through the balconies.

 

I don't beleive the firedoors are watertight. There would be no need to have watertight doors 100 feet or more above the waterline, since the ship would be underwater by that point. If the bottom deck floods, the ship is done.

[bunting]

My brother was in the navy, many years ago. He's cruised once, but won't go again because he views cruise ships as unsafe (obviously, I don't agree :) ). His issue is the large open areas within modern cruise ships. He thinks the ship should be broken up into war tight sections, like a warship. I suspect cruise ships DO have this feature. I think it's just not as obvious.

 

I know several folks here are very well versed in the technical aspects of cruise ships. Can you give me some info that might get my brother cruising again? TIA!

 

Hi Frank, all cruise ships have watertight doors, and the majority if not all of them are closed and opened hydraulically, the water tight doors on my old frigate use to be closed manually so that´s one improvement....your brother would not normally have seen these doors since they are generally in crew only areas and below or just above the water line...

the watertight doors can also be closed in a fire control role to supplement the many fire doors onboard the vessel.

 

Firedoors are graded, the one on your cabin is likely to be an A60, which is tested and certified to delay fire and heat for 60 minutes.

 

Many of the passageway doors are held in place in the open position to aid transit of persons but can be closed in an emergency either locally by pressing a red button near the door holder or as a group from a control panel on the bridge with a back up in the engine control room. Many of these doors (but none cabin doors) have small hinged flaps on the bottom to allow hoses to be passed through without totally degrading the smoke boundary. These door can be classified for 15 or 30 minutes, or 60 minutes if they are doors at the entry or exit of a main fire zone.

 

A ship is sectioned vertically into what are known as vertical or main fire zones. These go from the bottom of the vessel to the top (the size bottom to top depends on the section of the vessel). The walls(bulkheads) that delineate each of these fire zones are also fire resistance graded. The entry and exit doors to and from a MFZ are also of the same classification. There are approximately seven or eight fire zones dependent on the ship class. The classification of doors, stairwells, bulkheads etc is quite extensive and it would take a lot of space here so I thought it best you could show your brother these links. The first is the US CG Lifesaving and Fire Safety Standards Division

 

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/mse4/sfpguideSOLAS.htm#FIRE_DOORS

 

the second discusses the US CG Port State Controls (you can remind him that they do inspect the vessels)

 

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/nmc/pubs/msm/v2/dch7.pdf

 

Oh and as Pam said the Star fire did spread over the balconies, the materials used were not required to be to a high fire resistance, nor was consideration given to balconies having detectors, fire suppression systems or having the glass doors of the balconies fire resistant graded...these shortcomings were identified and the IMO (the International Maritime Organization) have instructed their Sub Committee on Fire Protection to address these shortcomings by 2008.....

 

Finally few of the warships that I sailed had smoke/heat detectors or fixed fire suppression systems such as hifog that the cruise ships do, only the aircraft hangar or the weapons rooms...sorry this was so long but hope it helps..........

but sorry to say in a perfect world things can still happen for a variety of reasons

[chasetf]

My brother was in the navy, many years ago. He's cruised once, but won't go again because he views cruise ships as unsafe (obviously, I don't agree :) ). His issue is the large open areas within modern cruise ships. He thinks the ship should be broken up into war tight sections, like a warship. I suspect cruise ships DO have this feature. I think it's just not as obvious.

 

I know several folks here are very well versed in the technical aspects of cruise ships. Can you give me some info that might get my brother cruising again? TIA!

My reaction to this is..... cruise ships are designed to survive the elements such as high seas, weather, fire..... They are also not designed to go in harms way.

 

War ships may be required to proceed in high seas, typhoons, etc. A cruise ship will sail the other way.

 

War ships are designed to survive gun fire, bombs, torpedos...... Cruise ships don't expect to get torpedoed.

[willysgrandma]

My husband was in the Navy and we cruise almost every year. If he thought the ships weren't safe - we would be taking land vacations instead.

[smeyer418]

Given that the Explorer that sunk last month had only a basketball size hole, he may be right in some circumstances and they obviously don't have good damage control either. That being said probably the most dangerous part of any cruise is your time on the highway and local streets. No cruise company wants to lose a ship and the lawsuits would bankrupt any company, not withstanding insurance, so cruising is reasonably safe but if you want total security you better stay home in your bunker. Your chances of getting sick at your local eatery are much higher.

[dforeigner]

The US Coast Guard has no jurisdiction over the Navy's operational safety requirements. Therefore, the US Navy can get away with bending, breaking, ignoring such laws without suffering any repercussions.

 

However, commercial vessels such as Cruise ships do fall under the jurisdiction of the US Coast Guard. Enough said.

[derf5585]

The crew of a luxury cruise ship used a sonic weapon that blasts earsplitting noise in a directed beam while being attacked by a gang of pirates off Africa this weekend, the cruise line said Monday.

from

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8DNUV2G3&show_article=1

[derf5585]

Do I believe a ship is a sitting duck leaving or arriving at port or an airplane is also at risk taking off or landing. These are the risks I am willing to take.

[dforeigner]

The crew of a luxury cruise ship used a sonic weapon that blasts earsplitting noise in a directed beam while being attacked by a gang of pirates off Africa this weekend, the cruise line said Monday.

from

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8DNUV2G3&show_article=1

 

Yo Derf, this happened over 2 years ago. I remember these scumbags also shooting an RPG that thank goodness, went dud and did not explode. A nearby US Navy ship had to board the ship and deactivate the unexploted ordinance.

[bunting]

The crew of a luxury cruise ship used a sonic weapon that blasts earsplitting noise in a directed beam while being attacked by a gang of pirates off Africa this weekend, the cruise line said Monday.

from

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8DNUV2G3&show_article=1

 

This was in Nov 2005

[DanJ]

Cruise Critic reported on Nov 29th that it may have happenned again to the same ship. Go up to the news link at the top of the page and scroll down to the Nov 29th link.

[dforeigner]

Cruise Critic reported on Nov 29th that it may have happenned again to the same ship. Go up to the news link at the top of the page and scroll down to the Nov 29th link.

 

Well, in 2005 it happened because they sailed too close to the coast of Somalia. I wonder what happened this time.

[dforeigner]

Here is a link to the thread talking about this incident:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=666656

[bunting]

Here is a link to the thread talking about this incident:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=666656

 

Thanks for that

[dforeigner]

Thanks for that

 

You are more than welcomed.

[mountainhouse]

Come on, Toto - it's family. ;)

 

Thanks everyone for all the info!

[Pam in CA]

Given that the Explorer that sunk last month had only a basketball size hole, he may be right in some circumstances and they obviously don't have good damage control either.

Actually, other reports stated that they contained the initial flooding with watertight doors and pumps for hours and it was only after a second "bang" against another iceberg that the flooding got out of control. It's speculated (and this is only speculation) that this second bang was much bigger and caused a lot more damage, compromising more of the ship that caused the ship to be abandoned.

[dforeigner]

Actually, other reports stated that they contained the initial flooding with watertight doors and pumps for hours and it was only after a second "bang" against another iceberg that the flooding got out of control. It's speculated (and this is only speculation) that this second bang was much bigger and caused a lot more damage, compromising more of the ship that caused the ship to be abandoned.

 

 

So this is the new bang theory? :D

[WinnieinWA]

If I gotta go I want to go on a cruise!:D

[Vampire Parrot]

A security officer on one ship explained the "Sonic weapon" to me... they are actually quite easy to spot once you know what to look for. It even had an MP3 input, so you can blast the bad guys with "Ride of the Valkeries" :D