USAirways Philadelphia-Rome?

[cadburysmom]

Am actually flying from Raleigh to Rome for my Med cruise this summer and because we have to change planes somewhere, am trying to decide which airline.

 

I recently read about USAirways' "deal" for upgrading to Envoy if space is available but am hesitant due to recent grumblings about USairways in general.

 

I see the planes they use have the seatback video screens which I really like but just wondering if anyone has flown them recently and can give first hand advice.

 

Thanks!!

[greatam]

Am actually flying from Raleigh to Rome for my Med cruise this summer and because we have to change planes somewhere, am trying to decide which airline.

 

I recently read about USAirways' "deal" for upgrading to Envoy if space is available but am hesitant due to recent grumblings about USairways in general.

 

I see the planes they use have the seatback video screens which I really like but just wondering if anyone has flown them recently and can give first hand advice.

 

Thanks!!

 

Find another airline. Flying through PHL almost guarantees your luggage will be damaged, lost or misplaced. The PHL luggage problem (as well as PHL airline management) has NEVER been addressed, even though they keep promising. Service on US Air is about the worst of the US carriers. Changes of planes and changes of schedules are rampant. If you end up on a 767 instead of an Airbus 330, you will NOT have individual video screens.

 

And upgrade to Envoy class-did you mean the paid for upgrades offered at the gate??? VERY doubtful that would happen on a PHL/Rome flight. Way too many FF who will take the seats available.

 

I fly a whole lot for business. It would be VERY convenient (and cheaper) for me to get on US Air in Phoenix, nonstop to New York for my monthly business trips. I fly AA, which means I either have to get to LAX to get on the nonstop to NYC or fly through DFW or ORD. Not overly convenient and certainly more expensive on AA. I won't get on a US Air plane anymore even if it was free. JMHO

[cadburysmom]

Greatam,

 

Thanks for the helpful info. Exactly what I needed to hear. Lost luggage, change of equipment and not being able to upgrade are obviously a huge deal and if USAirways literally sucks at all three, I will definitely pick a different airline.

 

With all your travel experience, which airline would you pick in my case? I know you're used to flying out of PHX, but if traveling to rome from the east coast, who would you fly?

 

By the way, cost IS a factor but am willing to pay a few hundred more for a better airline.

 

Thanks again.

[greatam]

Out of RDU, the easy answer is AA. RDU is a major hub for AA. One stop at JFK, then nonstop to FCO. Price around $1550 RT pp. You MAY be able to upgrade with AA miles and co-pay. The rules: purchase the CHEAPEST fare available-be an AAdvantage member. IF there are upgrade seats available from coach to business-$300 pp co-pay + 25,000 miles EACH WAY. These can be booked and confirmed when you first book the flights IF there are seats available.

 

If you have the miles (or can buy the miles or just sign up for an AA credit card-that is usually 20-25000 miles just for signing up), you get a business class seat for about the same price as BA's premium economy. And you will get lounge access at RDU and JFK.

 

HOWEVER, for the best airline EXPERIENCE in coach, I would use BA premium economy across the pond. Easily bookable on the BA website. Price is about $2000.00pp.

Coach all the way is about $1500.pp

 

You would fly AA from RDU to Boston, then BA to Heathrow. The only problem-the flights to FCO leave from Gatwick, so you would have to take the National Express Bus (IIRC, it is $20.00) from Heathrow to Gatwick. You have plenty of time-5 hours between flights.

 

If it was my trip and I had the miles, I would take the AA flights. Business class seat if available (may or may not be 180 degree flat seat, but it will definitely be at least 160 degree horizontal seat you can sleep in ), lounge access, no transfer between airports in London and nonstop to FCO from JFK. Of course, I am very biased (I fly AA over 100,000 miles per year).

[fti]

You would fly AA from RDU to Boston, then BA to Heathrow. The only problem-the flights to FCO leave from Gatwick, so you would have to take the National Express Bus (IIRC, it is $20.00) from Heathrow to Gatwick. You have plenty of time-5 hours between flights.

 

Note that you also must carry your own luggage between airports. Years ago BA used to do that for you (check your luggage from the US to your final destination even with the airport change in London, and same in reverse) but not anymore. Just so you are forewarned.

 

Another option from RDU with just one change of planes is Delta - you could change in Cincinnati, Atlanta or New York/JFK.

 

John

[greatam]

Another option from RDU with just one change of planes is Delta - you could change in Cincinnati, Atlanta or New York/JFK.

 

 

John

 

But no upgrades on Delta without high priced economy tickets, correct????

 

Just taking a cursory look at Delta's schedule next summer, the CHEAPEST Delta economy ticket is only slightly more than AA's ($20.00). According to Expertflyer, the lowest of the upgradeable fares is about $1000.00 more. $400.00 savings pp booking AA, paying the co-pay both ways.

[karle]

Hi Cadburysmom, I just booked 4 seats for July, to FCO. We are flying United, out of WAS (DULLES). It was important to me to fly nonstop, not having to worry about missing connections or lost luggage. GODD LUCK

[fti]

But no upgrades on Delta without high priced economy tickets, correct????

 

Just taking a cursory look at Delta's schedule next summer, the CHEAPEST Delta economy ticket is only slightly more than AA's ($20.00). According to Expertflyer, the lowest of the upgradeable fares is about $1000.00 more. $400.00 savings pp booking AA, paying the co-pay both ways.

 

It didn't appear to me from the OP's post that upgrade was a mandatory condition. But correct, upgrades are difficult except from higher priced economy tickets with Delta.

 

I never use websites or published fares for international tickets - too expensive. Consolidator tickets that ARE FLEXIBLE are very common and almost always less expensive. I haven't checked fares since I don't have OP's dates but I book hundreds of international consolidator tickets a year for our organizations and extremely rarely have problems. In fact, I don't remember the last time there was a problem getting rebooked, even onto airlines of other alliances, whether with weather, mechanical or other delays. I stress this based on other posts of yours which I believe are not correct with regard to international consolidator tickets (domestic consolidator tickets are another issue).

 

John

[greatam]

It didn't appear to me from the OP's post that upgrade was a mandatory condition. But correct, upgrades are difficult except from higher priced economy tickets with Delta.

 

I never use websites or published fares for international tickets - too expensive. Consolidator tickets that ARE FLEXIBLE are very common and almost always less expensive. I haven't checked fares since I don't have OP's dates but I book hundreds of international consolidator tickets a year for our organizations and extremely rarely have problems. In fact, I don't remember the last time there was a problem getting rebooked, even onto airlines of other alliances, whether with weather, mechanical or other delays. I stress this based on other posts of yours which I believe are not correct with regard to international consolidator tickets (domestic consolidator tickets are another issue).

 

John

 

The MAJORITY of consolidator tickets are "let's make a deal". Airline is willing to sell tickets for XXXX dollars and really doesn't care what the consolidator sells the tickets for. Along with those UNPUBLISHED fares (which may have a "normal" booking code-like L, M or Q on AA) generally come a myriad of restrictions-high change fees, non refundable (you generally cannot even get the value of the ticket for reuse with the airline-you MAY be able to work a deal with the consolidator) and they are NON ENDORSABLE to another airline.

 

Endorsing a ticket to another airline is a physical process, not just "head on over to Delta". There are actually notations that need to be made on the ticket stock itself-although in this day and age, the notations are generally made electronically.

 

That does NOT mean that some airline will NOT make accommodation ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY. What it does mean is "as a general rule" (and according to the written contract the tickets were purchased under), the airline will NOT re-accommodate on another carrier. They can and sometimes do (PLEASE don't let infrequent fliers think they will be automatically taken care of-they won't). But there is NO tit for tat exchange on seats as there is with PUBLISHED fares. The main premise being how much the originating airline sold the ticket for. Because consolidator tickets are purchased on contract, the non originating carrier has NO basis to make a "like kind" exchange.

 

According to the industry reps that I deal with on a monthly basis (and the AA rep I deal with almost daily), IF there is no tit for tat exchange, the airline who places a passenger on another carrier OWES that carrier IN CASH for the seat. Accounting is done on a regular basis.

 

If you have specific questions about this, please post. For the next two days, I am in Santiago meeting with about every airline rep that flies out of SCL or LIM. It's that time of year and the fruit must go North.

[cadburysmom]

First of all, thank you ALL for your comments and helpful advice!

 

Greatam,

 

You seem pretty well versed in airlines...here are my thoughts...

 

Thanks for the heads up on BA's World Traveller Plus program. Am definitely considering it. Might fly out of Dulles as there is no airport change in London(Heathrow) but that still leaves two plane changes from Raleigh which worries me a bit...more chance for lost luggage, flight delays, etc...not to mention they won't assign seats to a lowly first time flyers until just before departure. Don't want to be separated from my 14 yr old and definitely don't want to be stuck in the middle seat.

 

The problem with flying American, which I usually take internationally because I LOVE the direct RDU-Gatwick flight 777's with their seatback videoscreens, is I don't have the milage available right now for the upgrade and the planes out of JFK are 767, meaning no seatback screens which are pretty important to me. Also, although I could take my beloved RDU-LGW route on the way over, the route back would be FCO-LGW-JFK-RDU because I don't want to risk flying out before noon in case my ship arrives late.

 

The problem with Delta is ATL is always iffy and the planes are old and no seatback videoscreens.

 

That is what led me to USAirways in the first place....

 

But then again, British Airways was just voted Best Airline and after what you've told me, I'm REALLY, REALLY, REALLY considering the World Traveller Plus seats :)

 

Thanks again for listening. I hope my thinking out loud isn't driving you nuts...you've been so very helpful and I can't thank you enough!

[Globaliser]

... not to mention they won't assign seats to a lowly first time flyers until just before departure. Don't want to be separated from my 14 yr old and definitely don't want to be stuck in the middle seat.

Don't forget that usually the majority of passengers in WT+ are in the same position as you. So if you can check-in online (starting at 24 hours before departure) you can usually take your pick of a good selection of seats in the cabin. The later you leave it, of course, the more seats will have been picked by others.

 

You should also be able to check-in for the onward flight from London at the same time as for your first flight.

[greatam]

 

I don't have the milage available right now for the upgrade and the planes out of JFK are 767, meaning no seatback screens which are pretty important to me.

 

Glad my info was helpful. Here's a link to LOTS of extra FF miles.

http://www.freefrequentflyermiles.com/index.htm

 

The easiest for AA is to sign up for Citibank AA credit cards. The 20,000 miles for signing up was just renewed.

 

Let us know what you finally decide.

[fti]

The MAJORITY of consolidator tickets are "let's make a deal". Airline is willing to sell tickets for XXXX dollars and really doesn't care what the consolidator sells the tickets for. Along with those UNPUBLISHED fares (which may have a "normal" booking code-like L, M or Q on AA) generally come a myriad of restrictions-high change fees, non refundable

 

Much of your information is unfortunately not my experience and as I said earlier we book hundreds of international consolidator tickets a year. Using the right consolidators and understanding the type of fare that you buy, MANY consolidator tickets carry many of the same rules as published fares. In fact, the only difference often is a "ticket designator" (numbers/letters after the "fare basis") which alerts the airline to any differences. Many, many, many consolidator tickets have the same change fees, non-refundability (almost all tickets purchased by people on CC are non-refundable anyway since they are the cheapest). etc.

 

(you generally cannot even get the value of the ticket for reuse with the airline-

 

I don't know where you buy your consolidator tickets from but this is absolutely not true with 99% of the ones I see. I know you use/like AA and perhaps that is an AA thing. Many have Delta, Northwest, United and other airlines' tickets and they almost always can be canceled with the value of the ticket less a change fee of $200-$300 applied to a new ticket with that airline - see below.

 

you MAY be able to work a deal with the consolidator) and they are NON ENDORSABLE to another airline.

 

Actually, most consolidators don't deal. In fact, of the dozens I have had experience with over the years, none really do. They hold to the rules of the fare per the airline. If anyone "deals" it is the airline.

 

I just want people to be aware that consolidator tickets are not as strict as you make them out to be. We will have to agree to disagree on this. But I base my statements on my vast experience, which I know you also have.

 

Caveat emptor: if someone wants to use a consolidator ticket for international travel, ask to see the fare rules before purchase. You will see from the fare rules exactly what the restrictions are/are not.

 

Granted, having one airline "endorse" a ticket to another airline is not something the airline will do willingly, but in fairness, most airlines do that as a last resort even with "published" fares since they also must pay cash to the other airline. Whether the ticket is a consolidator ticket or not has absolutely no bearing on that fact that if your ticket is with airline A and they put you on airline B, they pay airline B regardless of whether your ticket is a published fare, a consolidator ticket, a frequent flyer ticket or whatever.

 

Just one example of a very common consolidator fare and rules - May departure from Raleigh to Rome for under $600 plus taxes from American Airlines.

 

>>CHARGE USD 200.00 FOR REISSUE.

WAIVED FOR ILLNESS OR DEATH OF PASSENGER OR FAMILY

MEMBER.

 

Reissue usually is only necessary for routing changes. Can do this for $200, even waived for death/illness - very common with published fares as well.

 

>>CHANGES PRIOR TO TKT ISSUE-PERMITTED.

CHNG FEE-ONCE TKTED ALL CHNGS ARE SUBJ TO A 150USD

SVC FEE. REVALIDATION IS NOT PERMITTED AND TKT

MUST BE REISSUED BY AA OR CONTRACTOR.

 

Only $150 for changes, may be reissued by American - does not need to be done by the consolidator.

 

>>CHNGS AFTER TKT ISSUE AND PRIOR TO DEPARTURE

IS PERMITTED. THE NEW ITIN MUST MEET THE ADV RES

TKTING AND MIN/MAX STAY REQUIREMENTS OF THE WHSLE

FARE.

 

You can't buy a ticket that requires a Saturday night then want to change it so there is no Saturday night. But that is common with published fares as well.

 

>>CHNGS TO THE RETURN OR CONTINUING FLIGHT-CAN BE

MADE ANYTIME MUST MEET THE MIN/MAX STAY OF

THE WHOLESALE FARE.

Changes allowed, with the restrictions noted, but those are the same restrictions very common in any normal "published" fare.

 

I looked at the fare rules for the "published" fare and they are almost identical - in fact for the published fare, the fee to change is $200 - the consolidator ticket only has a $150 fee to change :)

 

John

[greatam]

I just want people to be aware that consolidator tickets are not as strict as you make them out to be. We will have to agree to disagree on this. But I base my statements on my vast experience, which I know you also have.

 

Caveat emptor: if someone wants to use a consolidator ticket for international travel, ask to see the fare rules before purchase. You will see from the fare rules exactly what the restrictions are/are not.

 

No where have I stated NOT to use consolidator tickets. I have repeatedly pointed out that they generally have very strict restrictions and are generally NOT the best tickets to have IF there is a problem. You were the one who brought up the consolidator tickets for the OP that wanted the best flight to Rome. The OP also stated that upgrade possibility was DEFINITELY a consideration-"not being able to upgrade are obviously a huge deal". Not generally possible with a consolidator ticket.

 

Your average cruise traveler DOES NOT and most likely WILL NOT spend the time to gain the knowledge you and I and a few others have regarding fare rules, change fees, etc. etc. They want to book a ticket at the best price, without going through a lot of hassle. And most don't have the knowledge to rectify a situation IF it presents itself. You and I and a few others will NOT be able to impart that knowledge nor should we in this forum. The only thing we can do is point out the pitfalls to various airlines and ticket categories and try to steer people to the EASIEST, BEST airline ticket they can book for their cruise.

 

Granted, having one airline "endorse" a ticket to another airline is not something the airline will do willingly, but in fairness, most airlines do that as a last resort even with "published" fares since they also must pay cash to the other airline. Whether the ticket is a consolidator ticket or not has absolutely no bearing on that fact that if your ticket is with airline A and they put you on airline B, they pay airline B regardless of whether your ticket is a published fare, a consolidator ticket, a frequent flyer ticket or whatever.

 

Patently untrue about the cash payments. Just spent the morning yesterday with Northwest and Mexicana's reps and the entire afternoon with LAN reps (they brought in everyone-LAN, LAN Peru and LAN Argentina-great lunch and goodies, but a little overkill). I asked both the NW and LAN reps how they handle re-accommodation. BOTH relayed that FARE codes (nothing about fare rules) are the determining factor whether it is a tit for tat exchange of seats or whether the originating airline owes the conveying airline IN CASH. Both relayed that UNPUBLISHED fares are treated as contract purchases and are NOT eligible for re-accommodation, EXCEPT WITH CASH payment. And that IS the catch-MOST US airlines WILL NOT part with the cash.

 

With LAN, the accounting is done weekly. With NW, the accounting is done monthly (I did ask why-because there are not a lot of SCL northbound flights on NW (codeshare with Delta) and their partner airlines do not have a lot of flights out SCL). The LAN rep told me there is an actual CASH MONEY BILL sent to airlines that have re-accommodated pax on LAN and the underlying fare basis on the re-accommodated pax did not comport with their fare basis. Seats that are exchanged on a tit for tat basis ON PUBLISHED FARES are part of the underlying interline agreements between airlines and NOT subject to CASH payments.

 

I just finished with Copa's presentation (nice people, good airline, but I can't use them for perishable fruit), and will have AA and Delta battling it out this afternoon. I will ask the Delta rep about re-accommodation, as I already know the answer from AA.

 

You and I will continue to disagree on this subject obviously. But I thought the point of this forum was to make it easy for the CRUISE traveler to purchase an airline ticket at the BEST price with the LEAST problems. Very few, including myself and my entire dispatch staff, read ALL the fare rules. Generally waaaay too confusing for the average person.

 

The majority of posters on this forum have no desire to learn all the intricate ins and outs of the airline business. They just want to get to their cruise in the best possible fashion with the least problems. With our underlying knowledge, MAYBE we can point them in that direction without making them read fare rules, sort out fare codes, and all the other minutiae that most have no desire to learn.

[fti]

Your average cruise traveler DOES NOT and most likely WILL NOT spend the time to gain the knowledge you and I and a few others have regarding fare rules, change fees, etc. etc. They want to book a ticket at the best price, without going through a lot of hassle. And most don't have the knowledge to rectify a situation IF it presents itself. You and I and a few others will NOT be able to impart that knowledge nor should we in this forum. The only thing we can do is point out the pitfalls to various airlines and ticket categories and try to steer people to the EASIEST, BEST airline ticket they can book for their cruise.

 

I thought the point of this forum was to make it easy for the CRUISE traveler to purchase an airline ticket at the BEST price with the LEAST problems.

 

The majority of posters on this forum have no desire to learn all the intricate ins and outs of the airline business. They just want to get to their cruise in the best possible fashion with the least problems. With our underlying knowledge, MAYBE we can point them in that direction without making them read fare rules, sort out fare codes, and all the other minutiae that most have no desire to learn.

 

True but then if the average cruise traveler is that concerned about easiest, best, least problems, etc without desire to learn all the ins and outs, they generally pay much more for their cruise than for their airline ticket. So one could make the case that the average traveler is not savvy enough to book a cruise on their own either, which we both know is untrue.

 

If people are so unsavvy, perhaps they should just use a travel agent or book everything directly with the airline/cruise line/hotel and avoid the third party internet travel sites altogether. Purchasing airline tickets, even ones through a consolidator is not rocket science.

 

Nuff said from my end but thanks for the interaction. Enjoy your time in SA.

 

John