Allergic reaction - $250 Infirmary bill

[truecruiser]

Ask for it. Whats the worst they can do, say no.

 

zactly.

[PaulMedik]

Hi - just wanted to say hello to a fellow healthcare worker. I graduate in May (RN) take boards in June and start at the Birthing Ctr of our hospital in July (provided I pass NCLEX of course...) :eek: I loved my ER rotation, though the most exciting thing I got to do was an NG tube for someone with hematemesis. I got to start an IV too - you know how THAT is for a nursing student, right? ;) I nailed that sucker too - it made me happy.

 

Your story made me roll my eyes so hard it hurt. I, too, understand the intense emotions of the families of patients, but that sounds like a blatant attempt to receive special treatment for no reason. Yeesh.

 

Just out of curiosity, do you know what caused the pneumo? Was it an accident (tension pneumo) or spontaneous? We're just now learning this stuff, so I'm very interested in hearing real-life cases. Thanks!

 

 

CFitz,

 

Congrats on the IV! Confidence is the biggest asset when it comes to IV skills. I don't ever go in to 'try' an IV. I go into start them. Cultivate that attitude and you'll never miss.

 

His pneumo was caused by impact with his steering wheel secondary to his car impacting a highway divider headon after sliding on black ice. He's now a seat belt advocate. ;)

 

His was a tension pneumo as determined by his tracheal deviation to the left which indicated a right tension pneumo and confirmed by x-ray (Portable because time was essential). We used a tube as opposed to a needle for decompression because of the trauma involved there's often blood and fluid as well as air.

 

A spontaneous pneumo can also become a tension pneumo if the pressure is great enough to encroach upon the center of the chest. When this happens it affects the opposite lung by compression, and also causes a tamponade of the heart which won't allow the heart to fill up with blood to pump out. You can check for this by inserting your finger in the sternal notch and feeling for the trachea. If it's not midline, then the direction it deviates toward is the good lung and you'll need to decompress the opposite side.

 

 

 

soozles,

 

I worked EMS for seventeen years before I began working in ERs. I've been in that guys shoes too many times. :mad: Any time we resuscitate someone they can potentially sue us for any injuries they suffer as a result. I've even been involved in lawsuits where we're blamed for the anoxic brain injuries suffered while the patients were dead who are now alive. I've also been involved in lawsuits involving back country enthusiests who blame us for not being there when they injured themselves and not coming to check on them before we're called. It really sucks to have second thoughts after bringing someone back to life that they will sue us. I hope those thoughts never start to creep in before or during a resuscitation. I cannot forget the names of those who have filed such lawsuits against me and I know I'll have those thoughts if I encounter them again in such a condition. I plan to have them sign a waver as soon as they're alive again and if they refuse.....:eek: j/k....I hope!

[S.S.Oceanlover]

The true fact is that 80% of all Americans HAVE health insurance. Of the 20% who do not, many of them CHOOSE not to have insurance. I have also heard horror stories of the Canadian health system....they're broke....people have to wait years for elective surgery...Canadians are flocking to the U.S. to have surgery because of the long wait there. I doubt this is a precise portrayal of the true state of affairs in Canada, but this is what I've heard/read. We have always had insurance, even when unemployed...in fact, our daughter was born after my husband was laid off from his job. She had many difficulties in the first year, resulting in 13 hospital admissions and 3 surgeries. The total bill was well over 1 million dollars between the hospital, doctors, surgeries and home health equipment. Our out of pocket cost....zero. I'll take our American health care system over any other system in the world...any day!

 

I guess in a way you are right saying that many who don't have insurance it's because they choose not to.

 

But the choice is to pay $500-$600 per month in premiums or feed or clothe their families. That's not much of a choice.

 

Bill

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Americans can walk into an emergency room and be treated immediately, regardless of the ability to pay. In fact, this just happened to my brother. He was laid off from his job and currently has no insurance. He is having prostate problems and was unable to urinate for over 2 days before seeking help. For 6 weeks, he was treated, first at the emergency room, then followed up by doctors. He has not been asked to pay anything, because they know that he has nothing. In fact, he is going to have surgery at Mt. Sinai hospital in Chicago and admissions has already told him that his maximum out of pocket will be 350$, based on his unemployment and no insurance. So don't make it sound like we Americans only treat those who have insurance. Everyone can get treatment! My husband's company pays 100% of our insurance costs, for both of us and our college student children. It's America at its best and no government is involved! Best of both worlds!:p

 

People in the U.S. cannot be turned away from ERs. They must be treated. Yes they get billed but of course the hospital will not get paid if the person is uninsured and has no money.

 

In turn rates go up and get passed on to the people who can pay. The rates keep getting higher making more and more people have to decide to pay the high rates or roll the dice and hope nothing happens.

 

1. She sees worse case scenarios... And has more work offered to her than she actually has time to do... Anyone looking for job security should get into her line of work... There is WAY more work available than there are people to do the work...She is currently booked for audits 2 years out... and turns down work every single day because there isn't enough time and manpower to do the work... That tells me there are FAR too many issues with this system...

 

2. My BIL DOES NOT make a million dollars... Being a doctor doesn't pay what it used to... Do you know how much money they "write off" every year for whatever reason??? Quite a bit... that's money out of their pockets and essentially means they worked for free...

 

The point is that our healthcare system is DEFINITELY not as rosy as some of you seem to think it is... You think it is rosy because you have been fortunate not to run into a problem - YET... but when you do, I guarantee, you'll definitely be seeing this issue differently...

 

Wanna talk about the hundreds of doctors who double bill Medicare for services??? Or who incorrectly code their services to get more money out of the Medicare or health insurance company???? Who do you think is paying for that??? You would be amazed at how prevalent that scenario is...

 

Keep it coming folks... I've got tons of stories about what is REALLY going on in our healthcare system...

 

I agree with a lot of what you say. I don't know anything about doctors double billing but whomever thinks doctors are making millions certainly doesn't know the doctors here in Philly.

 

I wonder why so many doctors are getting out of medicine if it's so lucrative??

 

 

Bill

[VentureMan_2000]

I guess in a way you are right saying that many who don't have insurance it's because they choose not to.

 

But the choice is to pay $500-$600 per month in premiums or feed or clothe their families. That's not much of a choice.

 

Bill

 

 

 

Stupid argument...

 

 

Folks who spend money on a cruise are clearly not in a "feed or clothe" family position. If they are... they are stupid to begin with. And we all know, you can't fix stupid... :D

[PaulMedik]

People in the U.S. cannot be turned away from ERs. They must be treated. Yes they get billed but of course the hospital will not get paid if the person is uninsured and has no money.

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you say. I don't know anything about doctors double billing but whomever thinks doctors are making millions certainly doesn't know the doctors here in Philly.

 

I wonder why so many doctors are getting out of medicine if it's so lucrative??

 

 

 

In turn rates go up and get passed on to the people who can pay. The rates keep getting higher making more and more people have to decide to pay the high rates or roll the dice and hope nothing happens.

 

Bill

 

 

Bill,

 

You are 100% correct. In our ER as well as in EVERY ER in the United States, we are not allowed to know what your ability to pay is in advance of our treatment or dispo of your chart. You can be admitted to the hospital, discharged, or sent directly to surgery and the healthcare providers will not have any indication of your ability to pay unless you choose to tell us. If you do choose to tell us, we will most likely tell you that it is none of our business. We do have registration personel who will collect your address, indentity and billing information and they have no control whatsoever over what we decide to do with you. Registration personel are not involved in your healthcare decisions at any point in terms of ER care of dispo.

 

Double billing is an issue that insurance companies CAN address and should address. Every instance that I know of has been resolved with either amicable settlements or criminal prosecution. Mistakes happen and sometimes greed comes into play. Mistakes should be and are foregiven and greed is punished.

 

Any time anyone has a medical bill, they should review all of the charges even if their insurance carrier is picking up the tab. I have had erroneous charges removed from my own bills in the past that my insurance carrier had paid for. The irony is that my insurance is provided by my wife's employer and the charges were also made by my wife's employer (She also works in healthcare) where I had went for treatment. Essentially they had incorrectly billed themselves! :D My employer has way too many billiing safegaurds to allow mistakes like that to slip by. ;)

[PaulMedik]

........... And we all know, you can't fix stupid... :D

 

 

VentureMan_2000,

 

I just with there was a law requiring that we make sure they can't reproduce! :D

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Stupid argument...

 

 

Folks who spend money on a cruise are clearly not in a "feed or clothe" family position. If they are... they are stupid to begin with. And we all know, you can't fix stupid... :D

 

Of course my post is a stupid argument if you take it out of context like you did.

 

Unfortunately the thread drift on this post has drifted away from cruising.

 

Maybe it's time for floataway lounge.:rolleyes:

 

Bill

[CFitzRN]

Paul, thanks for the good educational stuff! You explained it very plainly and easily... unlike some of my instructors! :rolleyes:

[sea*siren]

A $250 procedure saved your life and you're thinking you should contest it? You do realize that you would be DEAD without the care you received?

 

Two nights ago we had a 32 year old man who had a pneumothorax (Collapsed lung). We inserted a chest tube to remove the trapped air and blood so his lung could expand. As I was leaving the room the PA was suturing the tube securely and I encountered the mans wife outside the door and she was visibly upset and angry. I asked her if she was OK and she said she was mad because he felt pain during the procedure. She claimed he was assured it would be painless. I asked her if she was aware of what the procedure involved and the fact that he would be totally conscious during the procedure (we didn't want to further suppress his respiratory drive or he'd be on a ventilator.) She said she knew that, but she didn't like him feeling any pain. She wanted to speak to Administration to complain right then. Normally we direct anyone who makes such a request immediately to Administration, but in this case I deviated from policy. I point blank asked her if she was aware that the procedure was to save his life and that he'd likely be dead if we did anything else or delayed the procedure. She replied that she didn't care and that she would be filing a lawsuit against us. She was then escorted out of the ER hallway to a family room.

 

During the procedure we spoke with her husband and throughout he only talked about how he would do anything to be there for his two young children. He made it through the procedure without incident and was admitted later that night. When he was transferred from the ER bed to the floor bed his wife again yelled at everyone that they were not doing anything right because he had pain when we moved him. It was explained to her that a tube is inside his chest and that pain with movement it unavoidable. When administration met with her she wanted the bill 'taken care of' because of her feelings and she again threatened to sue. Administration advised her they would be looking forward to hearing from her lawyers. :rolleyes:

 

I understand that family members are under great amounts of stress and they have emotions that encompass the full range from good to bad. What I will never understand is how they feel money will make them feel better or how getting lives saved for FREE will make them feel better.

 

Humans need milk, bread, meat etc to live. Should we be upset when the grocery stores make us pay for life saving food? How about electric and gas companies that keep us warm in dangerously cold weather?

 

People with food allergies tend to be more likely to have more than one allergy. It's more likely that the OP now has a new allergy previously unknown than a chance encounter with shellfood or whatever the previously known allergy was.

 

 

Incidences like this are precisely the reason why after 10 years as an RN I am switching careers, and leaving nursing. I have dealt with my fair share of this exact same crap, and have just reached my limit. The hospital I worked for bragged constantly about the 2 million dollars in "uncompensated" care they provided last year. Don't think for a minute that care wasn't paid for by someone.

[afcgirl]

Wow there is a lot of misinformation on here about the American healthcare system. There must be a lot of anti-American propoganda in Canada.

 

First of all, it is against the law for an American hospital to turn a patient away for lack of money. Period, end of story. The law was passed over 20 years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

 

Second, for Americans living in poverty, there is Medicaid. Under Medicaid, the person is automatically insured. There is Medicare for people over 65. Again, under Medicare, the person is automatically insured.

 

The problem, if there is one, arises for the middle or upper class. They can choose to spend their money on health insurance or they can choose to buy other things since it is a free country. Most people with families choose to get health insurance. A few don't. Those people can then run into big problems. Again though, those people MUST be treated by a hospital even with no money. However, the hospital will send them a bill which they will have trouble paying. No one is left dying in the streets.

[CFitzRN]

"The hospital I worked for bragged constantly about the 2 million dollars in "uncompensated" care they provided last year. Don't think for a minute that care wasn't paid for by someone."

 

TRUE, DAT. It was paid for by us, the working people who, according to some politicians, need our taxes raised even MORE. I don't know about you guys, but with a family of 6, $75,000 a year doesn't put us anywhere near easy street! I've heard that those of us who are "rich" (make at or above $75,000) will have our taxes immediately raised if a democrat takes office. I'm not on a political rant, I promise, but when I see the amount of taxes we are paying now, and how I am struggling to put myself and my children through college (with 3 more starting college in the next 8 years, argh!) I can't imagine having my taxes increased even more.

 

But then again I am grateful that we are able to go to college at all. So I can't complain too much. And no one needs to tell me that I chose to have 4 kids so it's my own fault. I'm just venting because our taxes are astronomical and I can't imagine paying even higher taxes.

[Lovely_Star]

Wow I am sorry that you had to experience this. DH has shellfish allergies too and I am a shellfish indulger so it could have very well been us too. What I don't understand is why won't the travel insurance cover this (if you had any). . . isn't that why we all pay the extra $$$ :confused:

[2 rednecks]

I just want to know what toys we are allowed to bring onto the cruise, if the DW does the shellfish thing do i have to go to the infirmary or can i just bring a RSI kit, NaCL, some meds, take her to the cabin treat her, and hit the casino while she recovers maybe i can be up 250 by the time the whole event is over.

 

And on a side note on our previos cruise we told the waiter of her iodine allergy, including that she can't use large ammounts of iodized salt and we carry sea salt with us for places that don't have it. I know if i eat any form of shellfish i can't touch my clothes or anything that she will touch. I have had shrimp wiped my hands on my pants and she had areaction when she did the laundry a few days later

[kdr69]

Wow didnt realize my little comment would create such a big storm of controversy.

 

It has always been my long held belief that BOTH American and Canadian systems have their advantages as well as disadvantages. My health care premiums in Alberta are also paid for by my employer but prior to being employed by them my premiums were 180.00 per month for family premiums which works out to 2160.00 per year so I am glad that I dont pay that anymore. That the premiums are so low is good about Canadian health care and also that it is for everyone. The disadvantage does lie in wait times for alot of procedures mainly due to the fact that we are extremely short of Doctors(as well as carpenters,electricians,plumbers,service industry workers, etc, etc.) due to the economic boom here in Alberta.

 

The advantage of the American system is the low wait times which leads alot of Canadians south of the border for surgery. The disadvantage to the American system is high premiums, inconsistent coverage from company to company and some other things mentioned on previous posts.

 

To the poster about the fireman being sued, the litigous nature of people is overwhelming. It is medically impossible to perform CPR properly without breaking ribs. Also I dont know about America( im pretty sure it has something similar) but in Canada under the Good Samaritan Act you cannot be sued if you are a first aider performing life saving emergency first aid on an individual.

 

I believe the OP should pay for the procedure as it is well documented in the Cruise contract that medical costs on the ship are not covered.

 

To the poster that said we must have alot of Anti-American sentiment in Canada that is not true as well. There probably is as much Anti-american sentiment in Canada as there is Anti-Canadian sentiment in America. Our systems of government though both Democratic are at the same time both worlds apart and closely similar. We should all be thankful for the freedom to have these types of conversations period.

 

Lets get back to Cruising.:D

[cruiselover999]

Wow there is a lot of misinformation on here about the American healthcare system. There must be a lot of anti-American propoganda in Canada.

 

First of all, it is against the law for an American hospital to turn a patient away for lack of money. Period, end of story. The law was passed over 20 years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

 

Second, for Americans living in poverty, there is Medicaid. Under Medicaid, the person is automatically insured. There is Medicare for people over 65. Again, under Medicare, the person is automatically insured.

 

The problem, if there is one, arises for the middle or upper class. They can choose to spend their money on health insurance or they can choose to buy other things since it is a free country. Most people with families choose to get health insurance. A few don't. Those people can then run into big problems. Again though, those people MUST be treated by a hospital even with no money. However, the hospital will send them a bill which they will have trouble paying. No one is left dying in the streets.

 

Very well said! It's the left wing media that spews out the anti-American propaganda. They cater to the people who think the government is responsible for taking care of them! Keep the government out of my business! If you are too poor to pay for insurance, then you will be covered regardless. But don't you dare sit there complacently and suck off of Uncle Sam because you feel "entitled", or because your childhood sucked, or you chose not to further your education. I don't feel responsible for you!

[cruiselover999]

Wow didnt realize my little comment would create such a big storm of controversy.

 

It has always been my long held belief that BOTH American and Canadian systems have their advantages as well as disadvantages. My health care premiums in Alberta are also paid for by my employer but prior to being employed by them my premiums were 180.00 per month for family premiums which works out to 2160.00 per year so I am glad that I dont pay that anymore. That the premiums are so low is good about Canadian health care and also that it is for everyone. The disadvantage does lie in wait times for alot of procedures mainly due to the fact that we are extremely short of Doctors(as well as carpenters,electricians,plumbers,service industry workers, etc, etc.) due to the economic boom here in Alberta.

 

The advantage of the American system is the low wait times which leads alot of Canadians south of the border for surgery. The disadvantage to the American system is high premiums, inconsistent coverage from company to company and some other things mentioned on previous posts.

 

To the poster about the fireman being sued, the litigous nature of people is overwhelming. It is medically impossible to perform CPR properly without breaking ribs. Also I dont know about America( im pretty sure it has something similar) but in Canada under the Good Samaritan Act you cannot be sued if you are a first aider performing life saving emergency first aid on an individual.

 

I believe the OP should pay for the procedure as it is well documented in the Cruise contract that medical costs on the ship are not covered.

 

To the poster that said we must have alot of Anti-American sentiment in Canada that is not true as well. There probably is as much Anti-american sentiment in Canada as there is Anti-Canadian sentiment in America. Our systems of government though both Democratic are at the same time both worlds apart and closely similar. We should all be thankful for the freedom to have these types of conversations period.

 

Lets get back to Cruising.:D

 

I must say that I never once put down the Canadian healthcare system. On the contrary, each and every Canadian who responded put down the American health care system. My only point that I have tried to make is that HERE IN THE STATES, privatized health care is a better choice, because it IS A CHOICE. Your parliamentary system is very different from our democratic system. You are also not a superpower (be glad). What may work great in Canada doesn't necessarily work here. :(

[fireofficer5]

Just remember, the emergency room is for life and death emergencies, the same as 911 is for life or death emergencies. The U. S. healthcare system sucks. People with and without Ins. use the E. R. as a primary care facility and Rescue as a ride to the E. R. instead of their own car or a taxi. They say we'll be seen faster if we use Rescue. Lets get like a system like Canada has.

[kdr69]

I must say that I never once put down the Canadian healthcare system. On the contrary, each and every Canadian who responded put down the American health care system. My only point that I have tried to make is that HERE IN THE STATES, privatized health care is a better choice, because it IS A CHOICE. Your parliamentary system is very different from our democratic system. You are also not a superpower (be glad). What may work great in Canada doesn't necessarily work here. :(

 

I believe I simply explained that there are pros and cons to both systems and lets move on and get back to cruising. :D

[cruiselover999]

Just remember, the emergency room is for life and death emergencies, the same as 911 is for life or death emergencies. The U. S. healthcare system sucks. People with and without Ins. use the E. R. as a primary care facility and Rescue as a ride to the E. R. instead of their own car or a taxi. They say we'll be seen faster if we use Rescue. Lets get like a system like Canada has.

 

 

Ok, so what you are saying is that the U.S. health care system sucks because people use it incorrectly? That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard! that's like saying "I really hated the food" after dumping a cup of salt on it! DUH!:eek:

[cruiselover999]

I believe I simply explained that there are pros and cons to both systems and lets move on and get back to cruising. :D

 

Here's what you said Kdr69:

 

 

There probably is as much Anti-american sentiment in Canada as there is Anti-Canadian sentiment in America.

 

I know of no Anti-Canadian sentiment in America, and comparing the two countries is like comparing apples and oranges. Canada has a population of 33 million, compared to almost 300 million in the U.S. I would imagine that it would be easier to arrange government health for 10% of the U.S. population....

[fireofficer5]

CL9, no its not the same as puttin salt on food. When you have a for profit industry managing health care, that is the problem. Let the goverment manage it and the employees (doctors) work it.DUH.

[farler05]

I don't know why people are going on & on about how lucky you are it was only $250. Shellfish is a serious allergy & if an item contains shellfish, it should be clearly listed. I don't think it is at all unreasonable for you to expect it to be listed. Carnival should eat the cost of your medical treatment, because their oversight caused the reaction.

[cruiselover999]

CL9, no its not the same as puttin salt on food. When you have a for profit industry managing health care, that is the problem. Let the goverment manage it and the employees (doctors) work it.DUH.

 

OMG....hang on, I'm laughing so hard it hurts...can't breathe!!!! LOLOL!! ROFLMFAO!!! Yeah, making profits is the problem....LOL!!!! Hand it over to the government....LOL!!!!! No, really....LOL!!!! Making a profit is a PROBLEM??? Speaking of...DUH! It's called Capitalism...and it's the backbone of our great nation...you yahoo!!!!!

[IwannaGo Now]

It's incredible how postings get off track.

I think the issue here was that the OP had a SEVERE reaction to whatever was in the meal.

Whether they got a bargain at $250 doesn't have anything to do with it.

It could be $25 on $25000, it's still a life threatening incident, and if shellfish, or any other major allergen was in it it should have been disclosed.

By Carnival's silence about what the ingredients were makes me wonder. :confused: