[Incident] Princess Male Couple Dancing

[Ephraim]

I was recently on the Star Princess. My mother went to the dance classes. She noticed that Julie (from the cruise staff) repeatedly tell a male couple that they couldn't dance together and that instead they had to dance with some of the single women. Clearly this bothered my mother.

 

As with Princess policy, I sent the Cruise Director a note about the incident. I even asked the assistant cruise director to ensure that he got the comment. I received no response from the Cruise Director.

 

Anyone else seen an incident like this on Princess? Princess ever take action?

[djhsolara]

I was recently on the Star Princess. My mother went to the dance classes. She noticed that Julie (from the cruise staff) repeatedly tell a male couple that they couldn't dance together and that instead they had to dance with some of the single women. Clearly this bothered my mother.

 

As with Princess policy, I sent the Cruise Director a note about the incident. I even asked the assistant cruise director to ensure that he got the comment. I received no response from the Cruise Director.

 

Anyone else seen an incident like this on Princess? Princess ever take action?

 

 

Was this the same "Julie" from the Love Boat? Sorry...I just had to say that. :)

 

Now that I've said it...

 

This is very serious and disheartening stuff to me. I haven't actually witnessed it, but I've heard very good things about HAL with male couples dancing in the Ocean Lounge before/after dinner with no problem...and I have seen plenty of male couples dancing in the disco on HAL.

 

We did, however, have a little incident on our first HAL sailing. My partner did the Westerdam Superstar competition (their American Idol) and one of the judges (who was the illusionist onboard) made a comment on the stage about his appearance (I need to mention that it was on Halloween night and we were dressed as club-kid sailors). You could just hear the gasps in the audience when this guy made the comment. My partner went to the Cruise Director the next day and he was very "politically correct" with everything that he said to my partner and didn't really say anything that would be done to correct the problem...however the illusionist did publically apologize to my partner on stage the next night of competition...so they did "make it right" although it should have never happened in the first place.

 

I'm hoping that this "Julie" is the one who had the problem and not Princess. I haven't sailed Princess yet...but will be in two weeks...and I've always heard that it is called Princess for a reason (that they are very gay friendly). Any thoughts?

[Schplinky]

Was this the same "Julie" from the Love Boat? Sorry...I just had to say that. :)

 

Now that I've said it...

 

This is very serious and disheartening stuff to me. I haven't actually witnessed it, but I've heard very good things about HAL with male couples dancing in the Ocean Lounge before/after dinner with no problem...and I have seen plenty of male couples dancing in the disco on HAL.

 

We did, however, have a little incident on our first HAL sailing. My partner did the Westerdam Superstar competition (their American Idol) and one of the judges (who was the illusionist onboard) made a comment on the stage about his appearance (I need to mention that it was on Halloween night and we were dressed as club-kid sailors). You could just hear the gasps in the audience when this guy made the comment. My partner went to the Cruise Director the next day and he was very "politically correct" with everything that he said to my partner and didn't really say anything that would be done to correct the problem...however the illusionist did publically apologize to my partner on stage the next night of competition...so they did "make it right" although it should have never happened in the first place.

 

I'm hoping that this "Julie" is the one who had the problem and not Princess. I haven't sailed Princess yet...but will be in two weeks...and I've always heard that it is called Princess for a reason (that they are very gay friendly). Any thoughts?

 

We were on HAL the same sailing as a group of 200 gay men, although we were not in that group. The cruise director said something that was meant to make the women applaud at his good looks and a man howled loudly. The CD said "this is a cruise ship, not a fairy boat." We were a little stunned and pleased by the many boo's he got. He seemed taken aback by that and said that clearly he was kidding. I'm not sure to whom it was clear.

[etoile]

I could kind of understand an initial request - they want to make sure all guests have a chance to practice dancing, so she might have been thinking of the single women. But doing it again after being told "no, we'd like to dance together" - that's where it gets dicey.

[Schplinky]

I could kind of understand an initial request - they want to make sure all guests have a chance to practice dancing, so she might have been thinking of the single women. But doing it again after being told "no, we'd like to dance together" - that's where it gets dicey.

 

Every once in a very blue moon, I disagree with you. I don't think that the other guests needing a partner should force two people who arrived together from dancing. For instance, I'd love to try ballroom but Mike would never go for it. If I showed up and was standing on the sidelines, I really doubt the person would pare a husband away from his wife so I could be happier.

 

I think that the initial gaffe was totally forgivable, but the continued insistence, as you say, is not.

[flag fan]

I could kind of understand an initial request - they want to make sure all guests have a chance to practice dancing, so she might have been thinking of the single women. But doing it again after being told "no, we'd like to dance together" - that's where it gets dicey.

 

I was thinking the same thing--the instructor was probably trying to please the female passengers who did not have a dance partner by getting these men to give the unaccompanied women an opportunity to dance. If everyone was paired up, I suspect she would not have cared. Of course, its not up to the male couples to entertain the other passengers, unless everyone in the dance class is expected to switch partners. The insistance on breaking up a couple is reasonable only if it is understood that everyone in the class is required to dance with different partners. That apparently was not the case here.

[SakeDad]

My question is would the man who was following be able to have a woman lead?:cool:

[quepaquete]

I was recently on the Star Princess. My mother went to the dance classes. She noticed that Julie (from the cruise staff) repeatedly tell a male couple that they couldn't dance together and that instead they had to dance with some of the single women. Clearly this bothered my mother.

 

As with Princess policy, I sent the Cruise Director a note about the incident. I even asked the assistant cruise director to ensure that he got the comment. I received no response from the Cruise Director.

 

Anyone else seen an incident like this on Princess? Princess ever take action?

 

Partner and I have eight cruises on Princess, and we always dance together at the disco. Except for the Tahitian Princess (had no disco) and a Caribbean Cruise on the Dawn Princess (disco was full of prom kids) We don't do ball room dancing or taken any dance classes, so no comment. One cruise on X, there was a large gay group there and we would take over the disco almost every night.

[Schplinky]

My question is would the man who was following be able to have a woman lead?:cool:

 

Nathan, you make me smile!

 

Bon Voyage!

[Ephraim]

This Julie is originally from Brazil, but now apparently resides in the US.

 

Unfortunately, my mother was there and I wasn't. But the CD (I think his name is Lee Childs) should have been able to verify and clarify and get back to me. Certainly ignoring me wasn't the right action. I spoke to the assistant CD (Hollywood) and asked him to look into the fact that I got no reply, but he was very busy and frankly it wasn't his responsibility, it was CLEARLY the CD's responsibility to get back to me... policy says that he must get back to me in 24 hours and he didn't get back to me at all.

 

My other concern is that by splitting the two men that she's actually created a problem for them in dancing in the future. One of them needs to learn the lead part and the other needs to learn the follow part. How are they going to get to the Dance competition of the OutGames if they don't learn to dance beautifully together? :)

 

I spoke to a number of people and I was told that this wasn't unusual for Julie.

 

The good news is that Julie is no longer on the Star... the bad news... who knows what ship she is on or may be on in the future.

[djhsolara]

We were on HAL the same sailing as a group of 200 gay men, although we were not in that group. The cruise director said something that was meant to make the women applaud at his good looks and a man howled loudly. The CD said "this is a cruise ship, not a fairy boat." We were a little stunned and pleased by the many boo's he got. He seemed taken aback by that and said that clearly he was kidding. I'm not sure to whom it was clear.

 

 

It wasn't the CD, it was the Illusionist Leo Ward (who was one of the judges) who made the comment about the "fairy" boat. The thing about incidents like this and the one that the OP is referring to are that they are the things that we remember from the sailings and they will probably always leave a little bit of a bad taste with us. This has stuck with you enough that you remember it almost exactly as it happened...and it is a year and a half later.

 

Things like this should never happen...and I hope the "spys" from the cruiselines are reading this thread so they can ensure that things like this stop happening immediately.

[bdjam]

As you can tell by my signature, Princess is my line of choice, and part of that is because I have a good friend on the Cruise Staff who is gay and whom I’ve sailed with a number of times. I have always found that Princess has been very gay friendly and the few times when there were bad vibes it has come from passengers, not crew members. In fact the majority of the crew members I’ve met have been very open and welcoming.

 

That being said, it’s certainly a possibility that “Julie” might not fit the Princess mold for crew members. It might also have been a possibility that because this was a dance class, she was trying to get male/female couples on the floor. It’s interesting that she repeatedly told the couple to break it up because Princess normally doesn’t like to tell their passengers “no” about anything. And the fact that the Cruise Director didn’t get back to you is disturbing – but from what I understand, there are different levels of tolerance among the CDs…one well known CD in particular – who no longer works with Princess – was said by crew to be down right homophobic. But I probably would have followed up with the Passenger Services Director – the CD reports to him or her – if I felt the CD didn’t properly follow up.

 

I guess a cruise ship is a mirror of society. But I will say that I’ve seen same sex couples dancing on Princess ships many times and have never seen a problem with it from crew members – in fact they’ve often encouraged it. LGBT gatherings are a regular thing on Princess ships and they’re pretty open about them. And even on my first Princess cruise way back when, it was suggested that I dance with another male, by the CD…and he was the one who wanted the dance! My partner wasn’t happy. :D

[skf]

I could kind of understand an initial request - they want to make sure all guests have a chance to practice dancing, so she might have been thinking of the single women. But doing it again after being told "no, we'd like to dance together" - that's where it gets dicey.

Etoile, I agree w/ you. Julie could & should have pretended nothing was happening, & not made a big deal.

Steve

[aaerobear]

OK, to start, I know Julie and I think we are being a little harsh on her, I think the incident may be a little blown out of proportion. The CD on the Star is pretty strict with his group and Hollywood is also a great "second in command".

 

That being said, there is no excuse for what anything like this happening and Ephraim was right in bringing it to the attention of the CD. BUT, as in all companies, they would NEVER discuss what disciplinary action or lack of action was taken with the employee involved. Thats against the law. The fact that they did not get back to you is sad, but not uncommon in such cases.

 

Brian, where are B and J these days?

 

Ed

[bdjam]

Brian, where are B and J these days?

 

Ed

Thanks for the post, Ed - hopefully the thing with Julie is a misunderstanding and all is well.

 

B and J are on Golden Princess. I'm going to LA to meet them on May 3 - B's mom and some family will have been on for the previous Mexico cruise - then we're all hauling up the coast to Vancouver. In San Francisco on May 6. You on the pier?

[kkorman]

OK, to start, I know Julie and I think we are being a little harsh on her, I think the incident may be a little blown out of proportion. The CD on the Star is pretty strict with his group and Hollywood is also a great "second in command".

 

That being said, there is no excuse for what anything like this happening and Ephraim was right in bringing it to the attention of the CD. BUT, as in all companies, they would NEVER discuss what disciplinary action or lack of action was taken with the employee involved. Thats against the law. The fact that they did not get back to you is sad, but not uncommon in such cases.

 

Brian, where are B and J these days?

 

Ed

 

I hope this was the case... I would think that any action would not be told to a guest, but it should be known that action is being taken. I have danced many times with another man and never encountered an issue. It is surprising to hear this of Princess.

[Ephraim]

OK, to start, I know Julie and I think we are being a little harsh on her, I think the incident may be a little blown out of proportion. The CD on the Star is pretty strict with his group and Hollywood is also a great "second in command".

 

That being said, there is no excuse for what anything like this happening and Ephraim was right in bringing it to the attention of the CD. BUT, as in all companies, they would NEVER discuss what disciplinary action or lack of action was taken with the employee involved. Thats against the law. The fact that they did not get back to you is sad, but not uncommon in such cases.

 

Ed

 

I NEVER asked nor expected to be told of any disciplinary action. I asked to know that he was taking care of it. In any case, we aren't under US law, the ship isn't subject to US law. But, Princess Policy also states that a customer comment must be answered within 24 hours. It's not only a written policy, it's also repeated every few hours on their videos in the room. A simply note saying that he regretted how my mother felt and that he was investigating would have at least indicated that he was looking into it. By not replying, he essentially indicated that either he didn't get the note (which would be the fault of the pursers, since it was handed directly to them) or that he wasn't taking it seriously at all. I strongly disagree with you, no matter what his actions, he should have acknowledged how this particular action was making one of his customers (my mother) feel and then investigate.

 

By interviewing other crew members on the ship, I knew that this wasn't an isolated incident, that she had done this repeatedly. If Lee Childs ran such a tight ship, a single incident should have been enough to correct it (which could have easily been done, without need for disciplinary action). Instead, the problem languished throughout the entire contract with Julie and created friction not only with customers but also other crew members who were upset at her actions.

[skf]

Ephraim...Anyone w/ a serious complaint (or even a compliment) should probably speak to a Senior Officer rather than a Junior Purser. On our last cruise w/ Princess we spoke to the Passenger Services Director & he was able to answer all our questions. Had someone complained about Julie directly to Mr.Darling, I feel that he would done something...Only two people on the ship out-rank him, the Captain & Staff Captain.

Steve

[Schplinky]

Ephraim...Anyone w/ a serious complaint (or even a compliment) should probably speak to a Senior Officer rather than a Junior Purser. On our last cruise w/ Princess we spoke to the Passenger Services Director & he was able to answer all our questions. Had someone complained about Julie directly to Mr.Darling, I feel that he would done something...Only two people on the ship out-rank him, the Captain & Staff Captain.

Steve

 

 

That's good to know, for future reference, but I doubt the average cruiser would know to do that. We've been on a few cruises and I would still go to the "front desk" if I had a problem. There does seem to be some breakdown of communication and follow-up here.

[skf]

Hiya Sphlinky...Not to be overly too redundantly repetitive, but the Junior Pursers probably have the worst jobs in the ship, and have to listen all day to people whining about nothing. That's why if it's important to you & really not minor, you should ask to speak to a higher Officer. The more gold stripes, the higher they rank!

Steve

[Schplinky]

Hiya Sphlinky...Not to be overly too redundantly repetitive, but the Junior Pursers probably have the worst jobs in the ship, and have to listen all day to people whining about nothing. That's why if it's important to you & really not minor, you should ask to speak to a higher Officer. The more gold stripes, the higher they rank!

Steve

 

I agree with you; I just think most people wouldn't know to do this.

 

We've never had a problem like this, although the CD on HAL's homophobic joke was close, at the time.

 

I didn't know what to do with my frustration and should have gone to speak to a senior officer (the CD would have known there was a group of over 200 gay men on the ship, a group we were not in but were aware of) and it seemed wrong even if he wasn't. In the end, I wrote about it in my guest survey.