Goodbye Celebrity

[gillianrose]

I also don't understand why you non smokers haven't raised cane about the smoking in the casino. That is one of the worse places for second hand smoke. So if you can go in the casino with smokers, you need to make me understand, why someone smoking on an open air balcony is a problem.

 

We never got into the "casino habit" precisely because casinos have always been smoky. Therefore, we never go into casinos. People SMOKE there!

 

What bothers me is when ships are designed so that we are routed THROUGH a smoky casino, even if it's just at the edge of the casino. It still stinks.

 

I've repeated this complaint plenty of times, and so have others.

[CrystalWater]

And even more interesting is that the cruise line where the balcony fire took place is NOT THE ONE RESTRICTING SMOKING. I'm shouting because we are Platinum with Princess yet we are boycotting them for their extreme stupidity at not using that incident as an opportunity to ban smoking on balconies and severely restrict smoking elsewhere on the ship.

 

Our boycott of Princess has been five years so far, and it will continue so long as their ships remain smoky.

 

HELLO, Celebrity. :)

 

(Princess has actually gotten smokier over the years. I haven't figured out why that is....)

 

You're boycotting Princess because someone started a fire with a flat iron curling iron? What does that have to do with smoking?

[Bobblsc]

I think I know the answer here...could be wrong but....if they tried doing this to you guys they would be sailing with empty ships..you would walk away!

We have little option....25% of the X business( it has grown from 8%) is what they get from the UK sales market I hear , so we have less "clout" compared to you guys. They do not have to worry about where their next booking is coming from...they know as long as they keep pleasing you guys they are still pretty safe. We're just the "also rans" !

 

 

If 25% of Celebrity's business comes from the UK, even for only selected cruises, you should have significant clout. The UK problem is probably a lack of organized complaint. This is the beginning of a very difficult time for the cruise lines. I cannot imagine other than great angst for management if several ships had occupancy rates of only 75%. As a stock owner of more than the 100 shares necessary for the on board credits, I hope you Brits, and Scots, are able to rectify this situation. I cannot find any logic in policies which result in cruisers being driven to other lines or other travel arrangements by such ridiculous actions as Celebrity's. I would feel this way even if other lines had the same policies.

 

Perhaps it is time for a "Boston tea party" at Dover harbor. :D

 

OK, off topic: Edinburgh has a great music festival. Our daughter's country music band has played there for two festivals and really enjoyed it.

 

Bob :cool:

[gillianrose]

You're boycotting Princess because someone started a fire with a flat iron curling iron? What does that have to do with smoking?

 

We're boycotting Princess because the Star Princess was extremely smoky throughout and Princess isn't doing anything to ban or severely restrict smoking on any of their ships.

 

What has a curling iron got to do with anything?

[Bobblsc]

Please don't take offense at this comment but I have heard that the UK passengers pay more for the same cruises. I wonder if this is because of the tipping policy. Some Europeans don't feel the need to tip and think that the cruise line should pay the crew.

For this reason, I wonder if they make it more difficult for UK passengers.

 

Almost all, perhaps all, western European countries on the continent have service charges of about 15% included in the final billing in cafés and restaurants. In some establishments the menu states this, in others there is nothing stated. In some places the service charge is written on the menus in the local language, but not on the menus in English. This is probably most common in Italy. As has been mentioned, Europeans also leave loose change, in addition to the service charge, for good service.

 

So waiters love to see Yanks come in. Often they get the service charge and a hefty tip.

 

I believe taxi drivers are the only people universally tipped in Europe.

 

My memory is that in the UK there is no automatically added service charge. I welcome correction if this is wrong. Of course in the UK we can read the words on the menu, usually.

 

So Europeans do tip. They just often do it differently than here in the U. S.

 

On the other side of the world, in Japan, no one, except taxi drivers, will ever accept a tip, even if offered.

 

This thread has varied a lot from topic to topic, but otherwise I would never have known about the shoddy treatment given the Brits.

 

Bob

[Gerrym]

If 25% of Celebrity's business comes from the UK, even for only selected cruises, you should have significant clout. The UK problem is probably a lack of organized complaint. This is the beginning of a very difficult time for the cruise lines. I cannot imagine other than great angst for management if several ships had occupancy rates of only 75%. As a stock owner of more than the 100 shares necessary for the on board credits, I hope you Brits, and Scots, are able to rectify this situation. I cannot find any logic in policies which result in cruisers being driven to other lines or other travel arrangements by such ridiculous actions as Celebrity's. I would feel this way even if other lines had the same policies.

 

Perhaps it is time for a "Boston tea party" at Dover harbor. :D

 

OK, off topic: Edinburgh has a great music festival. Our daughter's country music band has played there for two festivals and really enjoyed it.

 

Bob :cool:

 

Hi Bob, just a minor point. A Scot is a Brit!

 

I suppose you probably meant "I hope you English, and Scots"

 

 

Cheers

 

 

G

[Bobblsc]

Hi Bob, just a minor point. A Scot is a Brit!

I suppose you probably meant "I hope you English, and Scots"

CheersG

 

I understand your correction, and I take no offense. Perhaps I wrote that because I have recently read of some Scots considering a movement to break away from England. I believe that would be a mistake, but you people know better than I. I believe it was only in recent years that Scotland organized its own legislature, with powers similar to those of our states here in the U. S.

 

We have lived in London and traveled to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. We have the highest regard for all of you. Great Britain held the then enemy at bay at the beginning of WWII until the U. S. also became involved. I was a young kid then, but I vividly recall those times.

 

I also thank you for your support in Iraq and Afghanistan and this terrible "war on terror".

 

You are a great people and it is so good that after 200 years, we are all getting along now. :D

 

Perhaps I have watched the movie "Brave Heart" too many times. :D

 

Bob

[Gerrym]

I understand your correction, and I take no offense. Perhaps I wrote that because I have recently read of some Scots considering a movement to break away from England. I believe that would be a mistake, but you people know better than I. I believe it was only in recent years that Scotland organized its own legislature, with powers similar to those of our states here in the U. S.

 

We have lived in London and traveled to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. We have the highest regard for all of you. Great Britain held the then enemy at bay at the beginning of WWII until the U. S. also became involved. I was a young kid then, but I vividly recall those times.

 

I also thank you for your support in Iraq and Afghanistan and this terrible "war on terror".

 

You are a great people and it is so good that after 200 years, we are all getting along now. :D

 

Perhaps I have watched the movie "Brave Heart" too many times. :D

 

Bob

 

I am pleased you took no offence and neither did I. Thank you for your kind words.

 

Gerry

[blong2200]

Your argument has one major flaw which has previously been pointed out but you choose to ignore. There is a clause in the contract which you agreed to which states that the cruise line has the right to make changes so therefore they are not in violation. In a certain way you may be.

 

You also keep bringing up the fuel supplement which has no bearing on this issue. As you have been told a number of times the AG's office in Florida got involved because there was a previously agreed to court agreement. They are apples and oranges...

 

I realize you are angry over this change and you are certainly entitled to your opinion but you keep rehashing the same arguments which numerous posters have provided facts to disprove.

 

And all this is coming from a person who stuck up for smokers rights on this boards for several years....

 

 

I am sorry to inform you, but, no such clause exsist in the 'contact' Celebrity's Future Cruise desk gave me when I booked.

 

Yes, I do think that this change had lots to do with Insurance Risk, however, Celebrity is owned by RCI, so RCI as the parent company of X, probably has the same insurer, so why not the same policy. And if this is the case, why doesn't RCI, or X just say that because of insurance requirements, they have made this change.......again, X, and RCI should just stand up and be responsibile for their actions.

[JCDeck]

Blong2200...... With all respect,I certainly do understand that WE southerners know the difference between right and wrong as do, I'm sure, people throughout the entire country. We also have a saying here in the south... "Stop beating that dead horse"

 

So sorry, I mistook your anger as a result of you not getting a refund, although nowhere did I quote you.

[usha]

OMG! Now, Celebrity not only needs to personally notify each individual pax of the smoking policy revision, but they should also have to explain the REASON for it? Give me strength....:rolleyes:

[JCDeck]

OMG! Now, Celebrity not only needs to personally notify each individual pax of the smoking policy revision, but they should also have to explain the REASON for it? Give me strength....:rolleyes:

 

And please share it with me!:D

[Cote d'or]

Almost all, perhaps all, western European countries on the continent have service charges of about 15% included in the final billing in cafés and restaurants. In some establishments the menu states this, in others there is nothing stated. In some places the service charge is written on the menus in the local language, but not on the menus in English. This is probably most common in Italy. As has been mentioned, Europeans also leave loose change, in addition to the service charge, for good service.

 

So waiters love to see Yanks come in. Often they get the service charge and a hefty tip.

 

I believe taxi drivers are the only people universally tipped in Europe.

 

My memory is that in the UK there is no automatically added service charge. I welcome correction if this is wrong. Of course in the UK we can read the words on the menu, usually.

 

So Europeans do tip. They just often do it differently than here in the U. S.

 

On the other side of the world, in Japan, no one, except taxi drivers, will ever accept a tip, even if offered.

 

This thread has varied a lot from topic to topic, but otherwise I would never have known about the shoddy treatment given the Brits.

 

Bob

 

Don't forget : every European country has it's own culture, habits and tipping policy. For example : waiters in the Western and Northern European countries have a higher minimum wage than the ones in Southern Europe. so the ones in the South depend more on tips than the others. In some other countries, like Iceland, tipping is almost non-existing.

Like you mentioned, in every Western Euopean country, including the UK, there is a service charge included in the final billing, from 10 to 15%. But is common for most European Nationalities to give an extra tip, which totally depends on the quality of the service and therefore may vary between some small change and a generous 25 %. It's more an emotional thing.

So : yes, we do tip, and not only taxi drivers, but also waiters, room service, pizza delivery, etc...

[blong2200]

Blong2200...... With all respect,I certainly do understand that WE southerners know the difference between right and wrong as do, I'm sure, people throughout the entire country. We also have a saying here in the south... "Stop beating that dead horse"

 

So sorry, I mistook your anger as a result of you not getting a refund, although nowhere did I quote you.

 

JCDeck: "Stop beating a dead horse".....My understanding of these boards was that people were allowed to post comments.....so what you are telling me is that it is okay, for you to keep on posting your opinion, but I should stop?

 

It doesn't matter if our opinions are the same, we are all entitled to them.

[Drew B]

I am a non-smoker, and many times I've been sitting on my balcony, enjoying either some wine or some coffee...and someone in the next balcony has been smoking. It does blow over to adjacent balconies. When you've invisioned yourself sitting outside, and breathing in the clean sea air...and the aroma of cigarettes or cigars permeates your outside space, then it becomes an issue of, "this is not what I'VE contracted for". So see....it works both ways.

 

 

Karynanne, prior to this change, the policy was that smoking was allowed on the balconies. Therefore, if you experienced smoke on the balcony anytime up until October 2008, it may not be what you WISHED for, but it would fall under what you contracted for...

 

If you were to book an X cruise today for AFTER October 2008, you would be booking with reliance on the fact that the balconies are to be non-smoking. If, between the time you booked and when you sailed, they changed the policy again and you were confronted with smoke on your balcony, you would be correct that you were not getting what you contracted for.

 

See the difference?

[usha]

I just reread Celebrity's cruise contract, and it says absolutely nothing about smoking.

I guess changing the smoking policy doesn't fall under the "contract" heading.:cool:

[gillianrose]

On the other side of the world, in Japan, no one, except taxi drivers, will ever accept a tip, even if offered.

 

Not true.

 

(And that is likely going to be the shortest comment I will ever make on Cruise Critic. ;))

[blong2200]

I just reread Celebrity's cruise contract, and it says absolutely nothing about smoking.

I guess changing the smoking policy doesn't fall under the "contract" heading.:cool:

 

It also doesn't say that I have to dress for dinner, or that you aren't allowed to chair hog, or kids aren"t allowed in the pool in diapers. So, are you trying to say that since it doesn't mention smoking, then you can smoke?

[usha]

It also doesn't say that I have to dress for dinner, or that you aren't allowed to chair hog, or kids aren"t allowed in the pool in diapers. So, are you trying to say that since it doesn't mention smoking, then you can smoke?

No, obviously, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that Celebrity's cruise contract is a separate entity from their guest conduct policies.

The contract is the legally binding agreement between the cruise line & the passengers.

The guest conduct policies are the rules that Celebrity is free to establish & enforce, since it's their ship.

[Karynanne]

Karynanne, prior to this change, the policy was that smoking was allowed on the balconies. Therefore, if you experienced smoke on the balcony anytime up until October 2008, it may not be what you WISHED for, but it would fall under what you contracted for...

 

If you were to book an X cruise today for AFTER October 2008, you would be booking with reliance on the fact that the balconies are to be non-smoking. If, between the time you booked and when you sailed, they changed the policy again and you were confronted with smoke on your balcony, you would be correct that you were not getting what you contracted for.

 

See the difference?

 

Drew, I think you missed the point of my post...I've always been aware of the smoking policies on Celebrity, prior to Oct. 08....but I always KNEW that it WAS what I contracted for. Was I completely comfortable with it....probably not. But I stated this to show Blong2200, that there are two sides of this issue. I have never cried, "This is not what I contracted for"..., but Blong2200, differently. I just wanted to clarify this point.

[Drew B]

Drew, I think you missed the point of my post...I've always been aware of the smoking policies on Celebrity, prior to Oct. 08....but I always KNEW that it WAS what I contracted for. Was I completely comfortable with it....probably not. But I stated this to show Blong2200, that there are two sides of this issue. I have never cried, "This is not what I contracted for"..., but Blong2200, differently. I just wanted to clarify this point.

 

I get your point. The difference is that Blong is "crying" because the rules changed between when he booked and when he is scheduled to sail. You didn't cry "this is not what I contracted for" because that would simply not be true. The rules you signed on for (the ones you weren't completely comfortable with) were the same ones in effect when you sailed.

 

Hypothetically, I'm sure that if Blong chose to book a new X cruise today, he wouldn't complain, either, as what he elected to purchase and what he would be set to receive are the same thing... See what I mean?

[Karynanne]

I get your point. The difference is that Blong is "crying" because the rules changed between when he booked and when he is scheduled to sail. You didn't cry "this is not what I contracted for" because that would simply not be true. The rules you signed on for (the ones you weren't completely comfortable with) were the same ones in effect when you sailed.

 

Hypothetically, I'm sure that if Blong chose to book a new X cruise today, he wouldn't complain, either, as what he elected to purchase and what he would be set to receive are the same thing... See what I mean?

 

Got it! I can understand his point of view, but I would not have reacted in quite the same manner.

[blong2200]

No, obviously, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that Celebrity's cruise contract is a separate entity from their guest conduct policies.

The contract is the legally binding agreement between the cruise line & the passengers.

The guest conduct policies are the rules that Celebrity is free to establish & enforce, since it's their ship.

 

USHA: What I have referred to all along is the Cruise Ticket Contract not the Guest Conduct Policies, those are two different things and yes, Celebrity or anyother cruise line has Guest Policies that are suppose to be followed.

 

You and others have said numerous times that Celebrity has the right to change the contract

 

The only reference to change in the contract is covered under #6 in the contract and that refers to changes in iteinerary, etc.

 

The only mention of breach of contract is in #7: Carrier shall have the right to comply with any orders, recommendations, or directions whatsoever given by any government entity or by person purporting to act with such authority and such compliance shall not be deemed a breach of the contract.

 

An order given by the the President of RCI or Celebrity, is not from a government entity.

 

#11. in the contract also mentions lawsuits and Miami, Florida

 

#19. This contract contains the entire agreement between Carrier and Passenger and supersedes any other agreement, written or oral, realting to the subject matter. Any waiver of any provision of this Contract must be made in writing and signed by the Carrier.etc. ( I assume this means Celebrity).

 

 

Enough said: I did not, and never have said, that Celebrity did not have the right to enforce the Guest Conduct Policies, in fact, I have discussed quit a bit how and if they were going to enforce this policy.

 

Can you put it to rest now, and take your negative post concerning smoking to the proper threads.

[blong2200]

I get your point. The difference is that Blong is "crying" because the rules changed between when he booked and when he is scheduled to sail. You didn't cry "this is not what I contracted for" because that would simply not be true. The rules you signed on for (the ones you weren't completely comfortable with) were the same ones in effect when you sailed.

 

Hypothetically, I'm sure that if Blong chose to book a new X cruise today, he wouldn't complain, either, as what he elected to purchase and what he would be set to receive are the same thing... See what I mean?

 

Drew: You are not exactly correct: If I booked cruise today, on Celebrity and I had read every page of their website, I might would find the change in policy, but not necessary, however, from reading all these post I would be aware of the change and could at that time decide to book or not.

 

Oh, FYI, blong2200 ( me) is a SHE!

[Drew B]

Oh, FYI, blong2200 ( me) is a SHE!

 

 

Shoot! I ALMOST said she, but then reconsidered. Sorry!