Holiday--the lastest story

[BamaCruiser20]

OK...I talked to a friend who lives in Mobile last night about what the heck is going on with the Holiday. He is pretty high up in the real estate world down there and knows a lot of the local government officials. However, with that being said.....this is nothing other than him telling me what he's been told...so, take it for what it is worth.

 

Apparently, Homeland Security Dept wants Alabama Dept of Transportation to build a new bridge over Mobile bay and do away with the tunnels. ADOT has narrowed the locations for the new bridge down from about 15 sites to 5 sites. However, the one that is most likely to be the site for the new bridge is approximately 2 miles down from the current cruise terminal (right past the USS Alabama). So...what does this have to do with Carnival and the Holiday???? Well, Carnival is going to have to go into Mobile Bay and dredge it so that a larger ship will have a turning radiance. The new bridge site is the exact spot Carnival is wanting to dredge out (they would then just use tugs to get the ship to the terminal). So, the hold up in exchanging the Holiday for a larger ship lies with ADOT and the HSD and a new bridge.

 

Like I said, this is the talk, nothing official (that I know of). However, it does make sense to me. Makes sense that Homeland Security would want to do away with the tunnels. The area right past the USS Alabama would be the most reasonable place to put the bridge. And, it would absolutely make no sense for Carnival to spend the money on any work in order to get a larger ship in when they don't know for sure where the new bridge will be. So, since we are dealing with the government here.....the Holiday will probably be sailing out of Mobile for quite some time.

[LHP]

That is interesting.

 

Yes, I agree once you get the government involved...who knows what can happen!!! :eek:

[Wennfred]

Say bye bye to Mobiles Cruise industry. :(

 

 

Fred

[Cruiser from MS]

It will be just like building the Resort that Hurricane Ivan destroyed at the State Park in Gulf Shores. It will take forever... I do wish they would get the ball rolling so we could have a bigger ship out of Mobile. I love Mobile and the Alabama Gulf Coast. Next to cruising it is my favorite place to go.

[clackey]

When the government takes over, there goes the neighborhood. I don't know about ADOT but Homeland Security and FEMA are bad jokes. Just ask the people down the coast about FEMA.:mad:

[Mikel1733]

That is interesting.

 

Yes, I agree once you get the government involved...who knows what can happen!!! :eek:

 

What we know is that whatever "happens" will take at least twice as long and cost twice as much. Maybe they can put out a contract to Boeing and let them figure out.:rolleyes:

[nolaAlive]

Carnival is very good at playing the government game, They have been known to wait for new administrations, and rumored to even contribute to candidates that will support the cruise line interests. This, of course, in developing countries like Belize, and of course, Alabama. (j/k)

[ala-kat]

This, of course, in developing countries like Belize, and of course, Alabama. (j/k)

 

We try harder :p

[cookingchick]

OK...I talked to a friend who lives in Mobile last night about what the heck is going on with the Holiday. He is pretty high up in the real estate world down there and knows a lot of the local government officials. However, with that being said.....this is nothing other than him telling me what he's been told...so, take it for what it is worth.

 

Apparently, Homeland Security Dept wants Alabama Dept of Transportation to build a new bridge over Mobile bay and do away with the tunnels. ADOT has narrowed the locations for the new bridge down from about 15 sites to 5 sites. However, the one that is most likely to be the site for the new bridge is approximately 2 miles down from the current cruise terminal (right past the USS Alabama). So...what does this have to do with Carnival and the Holiday???? Well, Carnival is going to have to go into Mobile Bay and dredge it so that a larger ship will have a turning radiance. The new bridge site is the exact spot Carnival is wanting to dredge out (they would then just use tugs to get the ship to the terminal). So, the hold up in exchanging the Holiday for a larger ship lies with ADOT and the HSD and a new bridge.

 

Like I said, this is the talk, nothing official (that I know of). However, it does make sense to me. Makes sense that Homeland Security would want to do away with the tunnels. The area right past the USS Alabama would be the most reasonable place to put the bridge. And, it would absolutely make no sense for Carnival to spend the money on any work in order to get a larger ship in when they don't know for sure where the new bridge will be. So, since we are dealing with the government here.....the Holiday will probably be sailing out of Mobile for quite some time.

 

The tunnels aren't going anywhere and it will be a considerable amount of time before a bridge is built...if at all. There are many reasons why the bridge site hasn't been decided upon...the cruise terminal is only one small part of the bigger problem. A bridge through downtown would negatively impact the shipping industry here in a very huge way. Here's a good article on it (including map of proposed bridge sites):

 

http://mobilebaytimes.com/bridge.html

 

And from that article, here's what the cruise terminal director says about a new bridge:

 

"All of the options negatively impact the cruise terminal to some degree. The least intrusive is the southernmost one.The other two actually take part of our site for the support structure and put us out of business. We can live with the third option if the terminal ingress/egress routes are kept open on cruise days during construction. The bridge height must be 220 feet at its highest roadway elevation in order to accommodate the larger and newer ships which will be passing under it in order to dock. Their air draft is 218 feet. Our second ship could be one of these and I expect to see us get another vessel in the near future. This industry is a multi-million dollar one that benefits the entire state because our drive market is a wide regional one that extends into the upper Midwest. We identify every car tag by state that parks in our garage so we can prove our market.

 

Regarding ALDOT and the feds, I think the governor and our Alabama congressman and senators need to enter the debate aggressively. The I-10 corridor is bigger than all of us locally."

 

Al St. Clair, Mobile Alabama Cruise Terminal

 

Your post is the first time I've heard Homeland Security mentioned in discussions about the bridge...the purpose of the bridge is to alleviate congestion at the Wallace Tunnel, not as a security measure. The reason that I believe that a bridge is a long time coming is because ALDOT has their hands full on the Eastern Shore trying to widen roads that will be used as hurricane evacuation routes...and even that's taking forever. Things move at a snail's pace down here. So I suspect that if Carnival can iron out the wrinkles of turning a ship around upriver (and from what I've read, a Fantasy class ship can do it), we'll see a new ship before we see a new bridge. And, let's face it, Mobile doesn't need a huge ship to make money on cruises...I don't know for sure but I would imagine that the cost of the cruise terminal has already been recouped by the Holiday cruises that have sailed to date.

[futaba951]

Homeland security has nothing to do with this bridge. The tunnels are a bottleneck that have plagued Mobile for decades. 10 lanes of I-10 speeding along at 75 MPH suddenly merge down to 4 lanes to go under the Mobile River at 40 MPH (yeah right, I never let off the gas myself). The bridge would alleviate this by bypassing the tunnels and have the added benefit of allowing trucks with hazmat to keep going on I-10 without having to detour 15 miles out of the way and clogging up the roads at the Cochran-Africatown bridge. This project would also require widening the bayway from two lanes each way to four. The bayway is 8 miles long elevated across the bay so you can imagine the scope of the work that will be required in addition to building a bridge. This project is just in the "whaddayathink" stage and even if they can come to a concensus on where to build a new bridge, and trying to pork the funds to do it, you'd be looking at decades before any concrete gets poured. I think the cruise industry can quit shaking in their boots until at least 2030. It's a good idea in theory that I'd be surprised to see completed in my lifetime. Can you say Boston's big dig?

[clackey]

Carnival is very good at playing the government game, They have been known to wait for new administrations, and rumored to even contribute to candidates that will support the cruise line interests. This, of course, in developing countries like Belize, and of course, Alabama. (j/k)

And you must admit that we have the best government/politicians that money can buy.

[nolaAlive]

And you must admit that we have the best government/politicians that money can buy.

 

That would be Louisiana

[salty dingo]

It makes no sense that Carnival would be responsible for improving the pier - a location which could be used by many other ships. The local port authority would be responsible for dredging, and maybe would want a long-term contract before they invested in that.

 

But in any event, Carnival is not going to be pulling mud off the bottom of Mobile Bay!

[Amlee]

So I suspect that if Carnival can iron out the wrinkles of turning a ship around upriver (and from what I've read, a Fantasy class ship can do it), we'll see a new ship before we see a new bridge. And, let's face it, Mobile doesn't need a huge ship to make money on cruises...I don't know for sure but I would imagine that the cost of the cruise terminal has already been recouped by the Holiday cruises that have sailed to date.

 

 

As of today a Fantasy Class ship can make the turn. BUT and this is a big one. There is only 150 feet of clearance when doing so. That is very very close!

[futaba951]

As of today a Fantasy Class ship can make the turn. BUT and this is a big one. There is only 150 feet of clearance when doing so. That is very very close!

 

NCL Sun made the turn without a problem when it was in Mobile for drydock last year. It's at least as long as a Fantasy class, maybe longer. NCL might just have better captains. :) Just don't get anyone from Zim Lines to turn the ship. They knocked down a 200 foot tall container crane next to the convention center a couple of years ago.

[LHP]

I also read something months ago (so now it is VERY fuzzy, so forgive me) about some industry that is "further up the basin" that is in need of expansion and was going to be revamping the basin to get what they need...the off shot benefit would be a bigger basin for Carnival without Carnival having to pay for it.

 

Sorry I can not remember the name of the company.

[firefly333]

It makes no sense that Carnival would be responsible for improving the pier - a location which could be used by many other ships. The local port authority would be responsible for dredging, and maybe would want a long-term contract before they invested in that.

 

But in any event, Carnival is not going to be pulling mud off the bottom of Mobile Bay!

 

Carnival paid a lot to dredge in Galveston, thats why they are still there when everyone else pulled out imo, they have too much money tied up into that location.

 

The newest contract RCL announced RCL agreed to pay quite a bit to impove the pier, upgrades to several areas. Its common that the cruiselines agree to pay for upgrades when a new contract is announced.

 

A lot depends on the climate, now ports want ships, so they will agree to do the work to attract a ship, like Houston is doing now, trying to woo a cruiseline to the new port.

[futaba951]

Carnival paid a lot to dredge in Galveston, thats why they are still there when everyone else pulled out imo, they have too much money tied up into that location.

 

The newest contract RCL announced RCL agreed to pay quite a bit to impove the pier, upgrades to several areas. Its common that the cruiselines agree to pay for upgrades when a new contract is announced.

 

A lot depends on the climate, now ports want ships, so they will agree to do the work to attract a ship, like Houston is doing now, trying to woo a cruiseline to the new port.

 

There is no dredging needed at the port of Mobile. The river is already 45 feet deep. The turning basin upriver has always been the issue at only 1000 feet wide. Anything longer than a Fantasy class or maybe even Destiny or Triumph class can forget about it. The port is building a new container and intermodal terminal down river from the terminal and this will allow those bohemoth container ships to turn in the bay without coming up the river, so the port has no incentive to enlarge the turning basin. Unless they use tug assisstance to turn in the basin or turn in the bay and back up the river a couple miles, it will limit cruise ships to less than 900 feet length. Off topic, if you are sailing on Holiday on Sat. April 26 watch across the river at Austal USA as they will be rolling out the Navy's newest prototype LCS. It is a wicked looking trimaran hulled warship that will have cruising speeds in excess of 40 knots and sprint speeds around 50 knots. They will be floating it into the river next week. This will be the publics first look at the new USS Independence. http://austal.com/

[cookingchick]

There is no dredging needed at the port of Mobile. The river is already 45 feet deep. The turning basin upriver has always been the issue at only 1000 feet wide. Anything longer than a Fantasy class or maybe even Destiny or Triumph class can forget about it. The port is building a new container and intermodal terminal down river from the terminal and this will allow those bohemoth container ships to turn in the bay without coming up the river, so the port has no incentive to enlarge the turning basin. Unless they use tug assisstance to turn in the basin or turn in the bay and back up the river a couple miles, it will limit cruise ships to less than 900 feet length. Off topic, if you are sailing on Holiday on Sat. April 26 watch across the river at Austal USA as they will be rolling out the Navy's newest prototype LCS. It is a wicked looking trimaran hulled warship that will have cruising speeds in excess of 40 knots and sprint speeds around 50 knots. They will be floating it into the river next week. This will be the publics first look at the new USS Independence. http://austal.com/

 

Very cool. I'm not getting on the Holiday tomorrow (durn it) but I may have to come into town and check out the Independence...it DOES look wicked. I was at the Convention Center when they rolled out the Hawaii Superferry...WOW...what an awesome catamaran!

[firefly333]

There is no dredging needed at the port of Mobile. The river is already 45 feet deep. The turning basin upriver has always been the issue at only 1000 feet wide. Anything longer than a Fantasy class or maybe even Destiny or Triumph class can forget about it. The port is building a new container and intermodal terminal down river from the terminal and this will allow those bohemoth container ships to turn in the bay without coming up the river, so the port has no incentive to enlarge the turning basin. Unless they use tug assisstance to turn in the basin or turn in the bay and back up the river a couple miles, it will limit cruise ships to less than 900 feet length. Off topic, if you are sailing on Holiday on Sat. April 26 watch across the river at Austal USA as they will be rolling out the Navy's newest prototype LCS. It is a wicked looking trimaran hulled warship that will have cruising speeds in excess of 40 knots and sprint speeds around 50 knots. They will be floating it into the river next week. This will be the publics first look at the new USS Independence. http://austal.com/

 

I was just giving an example that Carnival had paid to dredge in Galveston. Obviously at some point someone (either Carnival or the port) has to pay to make it so a larger ship can get into the port, or this port as a cruise port's time is limited and it will go bye bye as Wennfred says.

 

Yes, I get it a Fantasy ship could get in for a limited time, but the area does need to be widened or whatever eventually.

[toad455]

Based on these stories I'm guessing the Holiday won't be retired for 2-3 years now, instead next spring like expected.

[futaba951]

Based on these stories I'm guessing the Holiday won't be retired for 2-3 years now, instead next spring like expected.

 

Carnival Splendor, Dream and Magic will be as old as the Holiday is now by the time they ever get a bridge built in Mobile. If they project that the bridge will cost 1 billion dollars in today's economy, you can bet it will actually cost 3 billion by the time they break ground on it. The gov't will have to cut the war in Iraq short and quit chasing bin Laden all over the middle east just to be able to afford it. This is all a non-issue in the short term. Meanwhile, if you drive I-10 through Mobile, bring your patience and a good book just in case you happen upon the tunnels at a really unfortunate time. :)

[Flip2cruise]

Mobile Cruiseport might have the oldest and smallest ship, but she sure knowns how to stay in news :)