Delta bumps us off flight from Vancouver

[Viki]

I just checked our record on Delta and they had changed our return flight from Vancouver to Charlotte. We were to connect in Salt Lake City to a direct flight to Charlotte. We were removed from that flight and were put on a connecting flight to Atlanta that left Salt Lake City 3 hours before we even arrived. The Delta rep says "well, that won't work" . Unfortunately there are no other flights to get us home that night. She suggested we spend the night in Atlanta or stay an extra day in Vancouver. Can they just take us off our original flight for no reason? I thought that I had this all worked out months ago. I just happened to check our delta booking online today and found the problem.

These are Frequent flyer award tickets.

 

 

 

Day Date Flight City Time Cabin

--- ----- -------------------- -------------------- ----- ----- --------

 

Sat 13SEP Delta 3964* LV Vancouver, BC Can (YVR) 1251P Coach

AR Salt Lake City, U (SLC) 359P

 

**Sat 13SEP Delta 1160 LV Salt Lake City, U (SLC) 450P Coach

AR Charlotte, NC (CLT) 1050P original schedule

 

 

changed to **Sat 13SEP Delta 696 LV Salt Lake City, U (SLC) 140P Coach

AR Atlanta, GA (ATL) 732P

 

 

Sat 13SEP Delta 1438 LV Atlanta, GA (ATL) 935P Coach

AR Charlotte, NC (CLT) 1049P

[megr1125]

DL is notorious for changing things and not telling anyone! Chances are they cancelled the flight and rerouted you....THEY need to solve the problem..BUT YOU really MUST look at other options....you may have another change but maybe you can find something thru cincinatti or elsewhere.......

 

I am sure greatam or flyertalker will be around with better advice....but since it is THEIR screwup they need to do something......but YOU should come up with the options.....

 

honestly whenever i fly them, i check at LEAST weekly...then, in the weeks before, I check DAILY. and the DAY before, i literally check every couple hours!

 

on your date, there IS an 11:45 AM via ATL that gets in around 11 that night. (flight 848 connecting to 1438)

[nho9504]

Have you read newspaper or watch TV news lately

 

About the drastically reduced capacity by airlines left and right?

 

I am not familiar with DL FF program - but can you rebook on other Skyteam members' flight? such as NW and CO, or even AS flight?

 

And yes, they CAN cancel your original flights and substitute another flights, as long as they EVENTUALLY get you to your original destination, does not matter HOW and WHEN. This applies to paid ticket and award ticket.

 

What do you plan to do, sue them? :confused:

 

Since now it is DL who messes up your original routing, I believe you could change your reward ticket without fee - do your homework to see if you can fly on Skyteam members flights and may be some creative routing, in order to get you home on time.

 

Otherwise, having an overnight in Vancouver may be your best option.

 

And do this quick, otherwise, you will not be able to find award seat availability as more and more people will find they need alternative routings.

[Viki]

I really don't think they cancelled the flight. It was almost full when I got these tickets. The delta rep offered the same flights the following day. I just figured they gave my seats to a couple of paying passengers.

[smeyer418]

I really don't think they cancelled the flight. It was almost full when I got these tickets. The delta rep offered the same flights the following day. I just figured they gave my seats to a couple of paying passengers.

probably not. Its more likely the flight has been canceled. They don't normally bump FF flights its either all or none. It might have to do with the flight coming in being not that full and them not wanting to fly the aircraft there or they just decided to pick on you.

[nho9504]

I really don't think they cancelled the flight. It was almost full when I got these tickets. The delta rep offered the same flights the following day. I just figured they gave my seats to a couple of paying passengers.

 

Can you still pull up the flight on DL website? I mean by checking on available flights on the day you originally schedule, is that original flight still showing up or not?

 

I doubt that DL gives your seats to paying passengers. FF seats are either available for booking or not available at all. If they are booked, they are yours - unless the flight is cancelled. I dont know if equipment change could cause one to lose FF seats that have been ticketed, that would be about the only other eason that may cause you to lose your seats.

[FlyerTalker]

It turns out that your YVR-SLC flight operates as you have it booked. However, the SLC-CLT flight only operates six days a week. Guess what day it doesn't operate - you got it, Saturday - which is September 13.

 

What probably happened was that the DL computer system found that there was the cancellation of the second segment (SLC-CLT) and make an automatic rerouting of that part of your itinerary. Unfortunately, it booked you an alternative that departs SLC before you arrive. Oops. So you will have to have DL make a change to something that actually works.

 

If you stay on the original YVR-SLC flight, the next connection that gets you to CLT is at 11:59pm, through ATL, arriving at CLT around 9:30am the following morning. In effect, you get to spend the day at the SLC airport. Or you can take the LDS tour into downtown, which isn't that far away.

 

If an 11:45am departure from YVR works, there is a flight at that time to ATL, connecting to CLT arriving late that evening. Don't know if that is too early for your ship.

 

So, your choices are:

1) Ask for the red-eye out of SLC and arrive home Sunday morning.

2) Ask for the 11:45am YVR-ATL, getting to CLT late Saturday evening.

3) Wait a day, and use your original planned flight numbers on Sunday.

4) Ask for a no-cost refund of your miles (their cancellation) and book something with another carrier.

 

Hope that cleared up the situation.

 

BTW, you were not "bumped" off your flight. That's a term for when you are involuntarily denied boarding at the gate on the day of departure. You had a schedule change. Also, the "almost full" is questionable, especially if you were using a seat map to determine how full the flight was.

[Snoofer]

I can appreciate what you are saying about just being changed, etc. for no reason. We had a booking (not Delta, another carrier) months in advance and found out about 2 weeks before our trip that they cancelled service to our home town airport! Luckily I just happened to see it as a news item and made other arrangements!

 

As for checking your flight status - that is a great idea in all cases - but a little more difficult to do on your way home when you are already on vacation.

[nho9504]

It turns out that your YVR-SLC flight operates as you have it booked. However, the SLC-CLT flight only operates six days a week. Guess what day it doesn't operate - you got it, Saturday - which is September 13.

 

Wow, Flyertalker, you really put in lots of your own time to try to help out. The OP would easily be able to see if her flight exists or not, by putting in the exact flight arrangement in DL reservation engine - then I am pretty sure, she would see the SLC-CLT flght no longer exists, on the Sept 13 Saturday.

 

I wish people take some responsibilities, and do some homework on their own first, before come here to cry uncle and make false assumption.

 

On the other hand, I am surprised by many posts regarding DL flight schedule changes make no sense, i.e. making flights totally "disconnect". Wouldn't the reservation system automatically detect such error, and then display some sort of message to ask pax to contact reservation - so to sort it out with an agent, instead of re-booking pax in some nonsense itineraries?

 

In late March, when I pulled up our AA award tickets for the flight home after our Emerald transatlantic (ended on 04/30 but we flew back 05/13), I saw the reservation DISAPPEARED - nada, zippo. But, before my heart jumped out my chest, there is a RED message display - contact AA reservation regarding the itinerary because of schedule change. It turned out IB has cut their BCN/MAD flights drastically since the Highspeed train went into operation in Feb. IB then put us on a flight that is not a BCN/MAD shuttle, but a flight ONLY OPERATES ON TUESDAY, from BCN to somewhere (forgot where) via MAD, that departs 30 minutes later than the cancelled BCN/MAD flight. The replacement flight does not even show up on IB website if you search for BCN/MAD... Because of the ONCE A WEEK operation schedule, we decided to switch to a much earlier flight BCN/MAD, that would make us having 4+ hours layover at MAD before flying to ZRH. However, I would much rather wait in the comfort of IB lounge in MAD, then RISK the cancellation of the ONCE A WEEK flight, and thus miss the only daily flight MAD/ZRH and be stranded in MAD till next day afternoon!

 

People, when you have schedule changes, please input your EXACT original flight information on your airline's website in order to find out the real status of your original flights, instead of making useless assumption. As this situation demonstrates, a flight can operate 6 days out of the week, but the day you originally scheduled to fly, is not in that 6 days and you got a flight cancellation. You are not being bumped, your flight is cancelled.

 

Flyertalker, you are very very helpful and kind to do all the legworks for posters of all sorts of questions. However, I think it is more useful to teach people on how to properly research their flight info, then "spoon-feed" them info. I am more in the camp of Greatam's approach. :)

 

And yes, the term of bumping is often being mis-used on these boards. Also, to make the assumption airline gave away their seats to paying passengers, are nothing further far from truth. No FF program has ever operated this way. And I hope it never would.

[FlyerTalker]

If you request a routing in the reservation engine, you will NOT get a flight displayed if it is sold out. It will only give you flights that they are able to sell at that time. The online schedule would give you schedule info, regardless of availability. The electronic desktop and PDF schedules show day of week operation, while the online schedule only shows that particular day. (Some international airlines show the whole week - but they have more of the "not every day" type of flights).

 

There was a bunch of misinformation floating around, so I figured I would give it the whole answer, including alternatives.

 

Just remember:

If you give a man a fish, you feed him for today.

If you teach him how to fish, he'll sit in a boat all weekend, drinking beer with his buddies. Or something like that.....;)

[Viki]

"If you request a routing in the reservation engine, you will NOT get a flight displayed if it is sold out. It will only give you flights that they are able to sell at that time. The online schedule would give you schedule info, regardless of availability. The electronic desktop and PDF schedules show day of week operation, while the online schedule only shows that particular day. (Some international airlines show the whole week - but they have more of the "not every day" type of flights)."

 

FlyerTalker......Thank you for your excellent advice and guidance:)

[Viki]

nho9504 wrote "I wish people take some responsibilities, and do some homework on their own first, before come here to cry uncle and make false assumption."

 

 

Please excuse my ignorance.

[Viki]

nho9504 wrote "Also, to make the assumption airline gave away their seats to paying passengers, are nothing further far from truth. No FF program has ever operated this way. And I hope it never would."

 

ESPECIALLY for frequent flyer tickets. My husband and I both used miles to get to a little airport in NY for Memorial Day weekend flying through Detroit. The plane was overbooked from Detroit to Elmira and NW bumped the frequent flyer people first saying they were the "lowest class tickets." Since there were only two such seats on the plane and we had both of them, we were out of luck. Then someone didn't show up for the plane in time and we were seated in our original seats for the flight, so we still got to our location.

 

From that trip I learned never to have both of us fly on frequent flyer tickets at the same time. The NW worker was going to bump me first and when I complained that my husband would be flying on without me, she told me to go ahead and board the plane, she'd bump someone else. Then when my husband tried to board behind me, of course HE was the one she had bumped instead (we have different last names.) Also, I'll never use a frequent flyer ticket for a trip where I HAVE to be somewhere, like a trip to a cruise where I don't want to miss the ship. It is just too risky these days.

[nho9504]

If you request a routing in the reservation engine, you will NOT get a flight displayed if it is sold out. It will only give you flights that they are able to sell at that time. The online schedule would give you schedule info, regardless of availability. The electronic desktop and PDF schedules show day of week operation, while the online schedule only shows that particular day. (Some international airlines show the whole week - but they have more of the "not every day" type of flights).

 

There was a bunch of misinformation floating around, so I figured I would give it the whole answer, including alternatives.

 

Just remember:

If you give a man a fish, you feed him for today.

If you teach him how to fish, he'll sit in a boat all weekend, drinking beer with his buddies. Or something like that.....;)

 

OK, I see what you mean about the PDF - you mean the FULL TIMETABLE. I often look it up when searching for flights, and when the flights I thought should be there but not showing up, I would resort to the PDF version to see if such flights still exist. Learned about that long ago because at the time the flights I were looking for, were SEASONAL flights to NRT - the dates I was looking, passed the seasonal operation date - it was clearly displayed via the PDF timetable.

 

OTOH, given the complexity of the timetable, I doubt most here would either bother to read it, or know how to read it.

 

Your last para about the fish et al, really cracked me up.

 

It looks like the Skyteam members do IDB award flyers? That is a BAD case - but then it happened at the gate, not in the ticketed, pre-travel stage.

 

I still think airlines do not take away award seats when under reservation. At the gate is a different story.

[nho9504]

VIKI,

 

You confuse the IDB - Involuntary Denied Boarding - with your own scenario. Being involuntary denied boarding can happen on both paid ticket and free ticket - in fact, this is when the elite status would save the day. Given everything being equal (lowest fare), the airline would IDB non-elite first.

 

Your flight is cancelled. Your confirmed seat is not taken away. Flyertalker already spelled out clearly to you the difference and pointed out your mis-usage of the term "bump". You are not being bumped, period.

 

"Being Bumped" refers to Being Denied Boarding.

 

In case you do not know, might as well for education sake, there are 2 types of Denied Boardings - when a flight is severely overbooked, when there is an equipment change, a smaller plane is to replace a larger plane, due to mechanical, or even weather delay, crew delay... you have more confirmed passengers than seats - the airline has to deny boarding some passengers.

 

Yes, to determine whom to be denied, they start from the lowest fare class, that includes the "free ticket", naturally. But the airline would NOT take your award seat away when you are ticketed, but not yet travel - this is what I refer to. It is a completely different situation and governed by completely different rules. To confuse the nature of these 2 areas, only really shows what you have admitted, in big bold red letters.

 

In the post you cited, the passengers were being IDBed. In general, airlines would first start VDB - Voluntary Denied Bparding. After that, when there are still not enough seats, they then will do IDB. Airlines prefer VDB, despite it would mean they have to hand out compensation because FAA does not require VDB to be reported. On the other hand, IDB must be reported to FAA, and become part of the on-time stat calculation.

 

In situation like this, I would pre-emptively approach the GA to indicate I am willing to be VDB, long before they announce their needs - because, Guess what? it does not matter your original ticket is a "free ticket", you can still get compensation, just like any other paying passenger who is VDB, as long as your seat is needed, and taken. At least this is the case with the airlines I fly. I have done this with AA and UA. In AA's case, we also received meal and hotel voucher for overnighting at DFW. Actually we could have VDB again the following morning if we wanted - due to weather delay the day before, all subsequent flights were full to the gill. Alas, we decided going back to the comfort of home was more important eventhough we had no work to go back to.

 

If possible, I always check the occupancy of our flights prior to departure. In case it looks particularly full, I would make a point to volunteer our seats. A few times our BPs were taken when we volunteered but at the last minute, they did not need our seats, so we wound up getting on our original flights. A few times we got bumped and received our compensation as well as confirmed seats of the next flights. You see, if you do not need to go to work, you can take advantage of such and get some free travel money this way.

 

There are people who actually would pick the busiest travel time of the year, and deliberately booked the flights that have the highest probability of overbooking, and planned the VDB that way. With UA, you can actually tell the check-in counter to put your name on the wait list for VDB on a very full flight. That way, you would be on the top of the list, long before others approach the GA after they reach the gate. For us, we would just do it at our convenience - that is, when we travel, we would look for such opportunities, but we would not deliberately book flights in search for such opportunities. The only downside is, you may not get your original seat assignment back once you give away your seats but at the end your seats are not needed after all. This is of the least concern to us - we dont care if we sit together or not. After all, it is only a 5ish hours flight the longest (coast to coast direct), no big deal, if we cannot talk to each other for 5hours.

 

There are many tricks and nuiances in the airline business - knowing more only would help oneself to become a better traveller and to better take advantage of the system.

 

However, I fully understand the fish story Flyertalker kindly re-wrote. :D

[Shorex]

OTOH, given the complexity of the timetable, I doubt most here would either bother to read it, or know how to read it.

 

Let's see, the headings for each city pair are Leave; Arrive; Flt(s); Stp(s); Freq; Meals; Equip; Ent.

 

Gosh, I think we can all figure out that Flt is flight number and Stp is number of stops. Of course, under Meals it SHOULD read "if only." :) In fact, this pdf looks identical to paper version that used to be available on the DL counter and on the DL planes -- all for the benefit of the flying public.

[nho9504]

Let's see, the headings for each city pair are Leave; Arrive; Flt(s); Stp(s); Freq; Meals; Equip; Ent.

 

Gosh, I think we can all figure out that Flt is flight number and Stp is number of stops. Of course, under Meals it SHOULD read "if only." :) In fact, this pdf looks identical to paper version that used to be available on the DL counter and on the DL planes -- all for the benefit of the flying public.

 

Do you think someone insisted DL gave away their seats to paying passenger, while in reality, their flight does not exist any more, would search for that info? No, she chose instead to declare DL "bumped" them off. Even after Flyertalker so kindly pointed out the difference of flight cancellation and "Bumping", she still confused by citing someone's IDB experience to "prove" her point. And you think people would read the Flight Timetable and look up for city pairs ?! :D

 

I maintain, the Fish Story rewitten by Flyertalker is a CLASSIC. ;)