anyone know Virgin Atlantic?

[mitchpam]

We are looking to fly from JFK to London and are planning on business class...but I don't know the difference in Virgins terminology. They have economy, premium economy, and upper class. I think Upper class is the same as business class but would love confirmation on this from someone other than the little voice in my head.

Thanks for any help...

[Growler]

Virgin 'Upper Class' is somewhat between normal 'Business Class' or 'Club Class' and 'First Class' on other airlines (biggest competitor is British Airways without a doubt, although you can sometimes get the fares low enough to compete directly with Business Class on other airlines.

 

Their main strength is that they have private checkins and lounges (at Heathrow at least), and can offer chauffeur driven limos from your hotel at no charge. BEWARE THOUGH - if you've taken their very best prices by booking early (non-flex fares) then you don't get the limo. You do, however, still get access to the lounges.

 

If you're used to paying Business Class fares, then see what kind of a deal you can get on Upper Class. It was a toss-up for us travelling to New York this September as to which we would use, and tbh, if we'd been offered the limo service from Virgin that'd have clinched it, but they insisted upon us taking a flex fare at around twice the cost if we wanted that, so we opted for BA Business Class this time.

 

As to the 'technology', there's little to choose between the various seats / food / inflight entertainment systems now, but seat location can make or break a flight.

 

If you haven't already seen it, then http://www.seatguru.com is definitely worth looking at. Once again though, if you get the very best prices, then you usually won't be allowed to pre-book a seat until 24 hrs before boarding, whilst those paying full fare get the opportunity at the time of booking.

 

To answer your other point about 'Premium Economy', this is the same as 'World Traveller Plus' with BA, and maybe now other airlines have a similar arrangement. It provides you with a 'Business Class' (for that read wider/more seat pitch) seat, whilst providing economy/coach levels of service. Note - you don't get the new 'sleeper' style seats, just a bigger one (like the older club class seats)

 

 

Hope this all helps!

[mitchpam]

We have not actually booked yet... we are traveling for my husbands company and we are approved for "business class" travel. Traveling this way is all new to me. I like the itinerary for Virgin and have read good reviews, but did not understand their websites classification of seating.

[cindep]

When I was researching airlines last year for our trip to Europe, Virgin came out ahead for a variety of reasons. I knew that there was no way I was going to survive 8 hours in coach, so I was looking for a reasonable alternative. Although you do pay more for premium economy, from what I've read on seatguru, you are getting the same leg room and seat width as most domestic first class seats.

 

I personally couldn't justify the extra cost for UC (upper class) and the lay-flat beds for an 8 hour flight. Since your husband's company has approved business class fare, you should probably compare the cost of business class on the legacy carriers out of JFK (i.e. Continental, American, Delta, etc.) to determine if they would pay for UC or PE (premium economy) on Virgin.

 

We are looking forward to our Virgin flights next month.

[Growler]

I took two random dates (outbound 18th September, returning 29th September) and did a comparison....

 

Virgin Upper Class (Flex) $10,988 per adult

 

Virgin Upper Class (Lowest) $ 3,434 per adult

 

BA Club World (Flex) $11,048 per adult

 

BA Club World (Lowest) 3,494 per adult

 

And they say there's no colllusion in fare-fixing between these two - lol

 

One other thing - both websites are deliberately misleading - they offer these prices, then when you actually book the price is only good for certain 'unsocial hours' flights - just something to be aware of.

 

If your husband's company buy flex tickets, then I'd give Virgin Upper Class the business. If you're paying, then you have a hard decision to make based upon times/airports/options etc

[mitchpam]

Thank you for your willingness to share your knowledge and experience. One more possibly dumb question... what is the difference between "flex" and "lowest"?

[TRacanoUK]

Thank you for your willingness to share your knowledge and experience. One more possibly dumb question... what is the difference between "flex" and "lowest"?

 

VS Upper Class is a business class product. It has some things (like the seating arrangement) that resemble first class (international first class that is) more, but the number of seats and the food/service is clearly a business class product. All things considered though VS is considered a good business class product. If you're flying from JFK, you might also want to consider BA which has a very good business class product as well.

 

Flex tickets are generally fully refundable. Lowest fare tickets generally carry restrictions (i.e. non-refundable, non changeable without a fee, etc.). As a word of caution, these cheapo business class tickets generally have significant change fees (i.e. $400-$500) which is vastly different than a coach ticket.

[JJPNYC]

I'm a big Virgin Atlantic fan.

 

Having flown in Upper Class, a couple of other differentiators from BA:

- VA has an top-shelf on-board bar for upper-class. It was great walking back a few rows to get a great single-malt scotch on my flight

- VA has an on-board "physical therapist" that gives nice chair massages & the like. Definitely a nice perk on board.

 

Also for booking purposes, Virgin's Upper Class carries a business class booking code but has many of the amenities of first class.

[Growler]

Thank you for your willingness to share your knowledge and experience. One more possibly dumb question... what is the difference between "flex" and "lowest"?

 

You mean apart from $7,000 :eek:

 

Flex means you have the ability to change/cancel you flights up to a pre-determined time before check-in, and you'll get priority seat assignment when you book, instead of waiting until check-in. Think of it as an 'open' ticket, ie you can travel on just about any flight between your chosen cities, you just have to let the airline know when you want to fly. Useful, for example, if you decide at short notice on a cruise to send a couple of days in your arrival port before flying home.

 

Lowest means exactly that - it's the lowest price you can get for that flight if you book it *now*. You'll lose your money if you cancel, and in many cases you cannot change *any* details of the flight without additional cost. Also - the 'lowest' available fare does rise as your flight gets closer - for example, the BA flights I quoted above (ok - perhaps the dates weren't truly random) have risen from $2600 per person 2 months ago...

 

As I'm in the unenviable position of having to raid the piggy bank to pay for my own flights, I can think of several other things I'd rather do with $14,000 than choose my seat on an airplane before the day I fly.

 

Other than those kind of things, then there's no difference. Same seats, same food, same private lounge, same jet-lag:cool:

[nho9504]

We are looking to fly from JFK to London and are planning on business class...but I don't know the difference in Virgins terminology. They have economy, premium economy, and upper class. I think Upper class is the same as business class but would love confirmation on this from someone other than the little voice in my head.

Thanks for any help...

 

Yes, Upper Class is the business, with a TERRIFIC FLATBED SEAT - the seat itself is comparable to any of the F seat domestic airlines have, but not as much personal space.

 

You can look at this Air NZ video to see how Virgin Atlantic Upper Class seat works, for NZ licensed the seat from Virgin.

 

You can either wait thru the introduction, or simply click the sketch of the plane at the bottom of the screen. Each Red dot is a window for a video clip. Note the seat does not recline into a bed, instead, the back of the seat folds down forwards to form a BED. Also, you can sit at any angle, even lie down during take off and landing. The IEF can extend out to various angle so you can view it comfortably whether you sit upright (dining), recline, or lying down. The dining table is HUGE and your companion can sit accross from you on the ottoman and enjoy a cozy dinner for 2 on the plane. :)

 

Enjoy! http://erequest.airnz.co.nz/us/explore/high-res/explore-highres.htm

[Globaliser]

I took two random dates (outbound 18th September, returning 29th September) and did a comparison....

 

Virgin Upper Class (Flex) $10,988 per adult

 

Virgin Upper Class (Lowest) $ 3,434 per adult

 

BA Club World (Flex) $11,048 per adult

 

BA Club World (Lowest) 3,494 per adult

 

And they say there's no colllusion in fare-fixing between these two - lol

 

One other thing - both websites are deliberately misleading - they offer these prices, then when you actually book the price is only good for certain 'unsocial hours' flights - just something to be aware of.

I think you're confusing "collusion" with "competitive price-matching". In any competitive market, companies that are competing on price (like airlines do) will tend to price match - so you will always tend to see similar prices being offered for similar products. (That's why competing supermarkets often sell the same products for the same prices, to the extent of actually telling you what the competitor's price is for that product to show that they have matched it.)

 

"Collusion" only occurs if there is an agreement in advance that they will fix the fares.

 

I don't understand why you say that the airlines' websites are "misleading" about these fares. To take flights on your dates, the "lowest" NYC-LON fare on BA ($3,746 today) is available on 8 out of 11 flights on the outbound date of 18 September, spread throughout the range of departures (both daytime and overnight flights), and on 6 out of 10 flights on the return date of 29 September, again spread throughout the range of departures.

[Globaliser]

Flex means you have the ability to change/cancel you flights up to a pre-determined time before check-in

...

Also - the 'lowest' available fare does rise as your flight gets closer - for example, the BA flights I quoted above (ok - perhaps the dates weren't truly random) have risen from $2600 per person 2 months ago...

With a flexible ticket, you should normally be able to change or cancel your flights at any time - including after your booked flight has departed and you have no-showed for it. Business passengers travelling on flexible tickets in premium cabins are the big profit centre for legacy airlines, especially the likes of BA and Virgin, and the fact that many such passengers travelling on flexible tickets simply fail to appear for their booked flights is one reason why all airlines have to overbook to keep their aircraft reasonably full and stay profitable.

 

If it makes you feel any better, I think that you may find that the reason that prices of the "lowest" business class fares have risen since you looked is because a sale offer has come to an end. It rather demonstrates why buying airline tickets during sales is usually the best strategy to adopt!

[Globaliser]

Having flown in Upper Class, a couple of other differentiators from BA:

- VA has an top-shelf on-board bar for upper-class. It was great walking back a few rows to get a great single-malt scotch on my flight

- VA has an on-board "physical therapist" that gives nice chair massages & the like. Definitely a nice perk on board.

The inflight beauty therapist is, alas, now gone. But there are still therapists in the lounges. In fact, for a leisure passenger, the lounge experience is definitely something worth building in time for, if schedules allow.

 

There is no doubt that Virgin Atlantic's Upper Class is one of the best business class experiences there is in the whole world.

[Growler]

I don't understand why you say that the airlines' websites are "misleading" about these fares. To take flights on your dates, the "lowest" NYC-LON fare on BA ($3,746 today) is available on 8 out of 11 flights on the outbound date of 18 September, spread throughout the range of departures (both daytime and overnight flights), and on 6 out of 10 flights on the return date of 29 September, again spread throughout the range of departures.

 

Well - I beg to differ.

 

I guarantee that before you get to the point of actually having to confirm your cc details (ie BUY the flight) you'll find that certain flight time combinations result in a larger cost being displayed. I'm speaking from first hand experience here, having just tried to get both Virgin AND BA to honor advertised flight prices from LHR to JFK in September.

 

And as it happens, whilst typing this I went and checked on the Virgin site, and it still operates exactly as I described. If you select the dates of travel, and then 'lowest fare', it will show a range of flight time options with one highlighted. It's these flights that are available at the advertised rate. Change your outwards and return flight times to other flights on the same day and any sunsequent price change is reflected immediately (if there's a change - it's always upwards :))

 

<edit> Just saw you mentioned BA - and I''d checked Virgin - You're right about BA (but that wasn't the case when I booked two months ago) - as it happens that's why we ended up booking BA instead of Virgin - more flight choices. Apologies for any earlier confusion - Virgin flight times apppear to me to be much more resrictive - perhaps it's because they have a codeshare with Continental on some transatlantic flights?

[Globaliser]

Being intrigued now, I've just gone and had a look at the Virgin site as well.

 

For any combination of flights on those days, I think I can get an all-in fare of either $3,668.46 or $3,686.02. Whether it's one or the other seems to depend on whether there's a Continental-operated flight involved - although it's possibly dependent on airport rather than airline. In every case, the first website booking page quotes a fare of $3,434.00. But if you click the "Fare Breakdown" link after selecting the flights that you're interested in, the popup window will show you either $3,434.00 + $234.46 taxes/fees = $3,668.46, or $3,434.00 + $252.02 taxes/fees = $3,686.02. The different level of taxes/fees quoted there seems to depend, as I say, on whether there's a CO flight or whether it's all VS metal.

 

If you progress one step further, you will actually see a different breakdown shown, eg $3,192.00 + $494.02 = $3,686.02 for VS-operated flights in both directions.

 

The reason for this difference is as follows. The true "base fare" is $3,192. But US law requires (I believe) that fuel surcharges be shown as part of the base fare. This is probably why the first website page quotes "$3,434" - it's supposed to be a fare before taxes, fees and charges, but it is required to include the fuel surcharges.

 

So the Virgin website is doing no more than quoting you a net price and then adding the taxes etc on afterwards. This is very conventional, even though UK-market websites have largely moved away from this under government pressure.

 

You can see the same thing happening on the BA website. Once you have chosen your travel dates, the list of flights suggests that each flight available at the lowest fare is $1,747 each way (if you buy a round-trip ticket) = $3,494. But the actual fare charged of $3,746.02 is after the addition of taxes, fees and charges of $270.02. This is comparable to what is shown in the Virgin pop-up box.

 

However, on the detailed price quote page, you will again see the breakdown as base fare of $3,192, to which is added $554.02 to make the total of $3,746.02. This is comparable to the second step in the Virgin booking process. So the initial quote of "$1,747 + $1,747" obviously again includes the fuel surcharge but excludes other taxes, fees and charges.

 

So I suspect that the websites have not been misleading about the availability of the low fare - it seems to be available on every flight on the Virgin website and on most flights on the BA website - and that any confusion caused is because the first price quoted is net of taxes, fees and charges, and the final price is of course after they have been added on.

[CruiserPK]

Virgin also offers a nice perk to UC passengers: a pair of knit pj's/sweats for the flights from west to east. My elderly father loves them, so I get a size medium for him every time I fly Virgin!

Cheers, Pam