Vacancy rates, smaller vs. larger ships

[Pettifogger]

I asked this question in the middle of someone else's thread and didn't get a useful answer, so I decided to try it on a thread of my own.

I like smaller ships and it has been my experience that bargain offers are much more often on the larger ships. Of course, there are more cabins on larger ships, but even allowing for that, the smaller ships seem to sell out faster. (The Prinsendam, for example.)

A couple years ago, most of the cruise lines were building bigger and bigger ships, because anything would sell out. Now that everything is not likely to sell out, they may or may not find that that was a mistake. I don't know and would be delighted to hear from someone who does, preferably someone in the business.

[hammybee]

Mass market cruising is all about affordability which means it's all about the economies of scale which means big ships.

 

I don't think any of the cruise lines regret the bigger is better thing. I do however, suspect some of those cruise lines with financial commitments for new builds wish they had not. It's unlikely that anyone from " within the business" is going to opine on this topic, in this forum, let alone at a shareholder's meeting.

 

In the current economy, it's substantially tougher to fill any ship, any size. Azamara is proof of this.

[lettienets]

Mass market cruising is all about affordability which means it's all about the economies of scale which means big ships.

 

I don't think any of the cruise lines regret the bigger is better thing. I do however, suspect some of those cruise lines with financial commitments for new builds wish they had not. It's unlikely that anyone from " within the business" is going to opine on this topic, in this forum, let alone at a shareholder's meeting.

 

In the current economy, it's substantially tougher to fill any ship, any size. Azamara is proof of this.

I think megaships were built for the retiring babyboomers. Nobody predicted this downturn in the economy.

[hammybee]

I think megaships were built for the retiring babyboomers. Nobody predicted this downturn in the economy.

 

A few more days in the market like today and I think many of us may be spending our retirement years in inside/outside cabins on former cruise ships turned senior housing.

[Pettifogger]

hammybee: Thank you for your response, but please remember that we're on a Holland America board. I would have been more comfortable if, when you referred to "Mass market cruising", you had made it clear that you weren't including premium lines like HAL. (Or, if you were suggesting that the same economics applied to both, you could have said 'mass market and premium lines'.) I'm aware that I sound finicky, but it took me too long to grasp the difference and I'd like to make it quicker for others.

[jollyjones]

Oh puleeeze ... I'm on my first HAL in two weeks and I booked it because it was the cheapest deal around - cheaper than NCL for instance - and I think you will find that distinctions between 'mass' and 'premium' will increasingly blur as the recession / depression deepens. Frankly, I think the distinction was false in the first place - I was recently on Celeb. and it was fine but certainly nothing exceptional; ditto the Regatta altho' I have just booked another trip on her because the deal is so good. Until you jump up the the inclusives such as Seabourn (which I have also sailed), I'm not convinced that there's a lot to choose between them.

 

hammybee: Thank you for your response, but please remember that we're on a Holland America board. I would have been more comfortable if, when you referred to "Mass market cruising", you had made it clear that you weren't including premium lines like HAL. (Or, if you were suggesting that the same economics applied to both, you could have said 'mass market and premium lines'.) I'm aware that I sound finicky, but it took me too long to grasp the difference and I'd like to make it quicker for others.

[Pettifogger]

jollyjones: After your HAL cruise, I'll be interested in your opinion, which may depend on what aspects of cruising matter most to you. (Many of us think HAL is strong on the basics.) It seems to me that many of the cruise lines are cutting prices sharply on their less popular cruises, so price and value may be even less closely correlated than usual.

Hopefully, I'll never find out what happens "as the recession / depression deepens." The only thing I can think of right off hand that's more dressing than a cruise ship in "mothballs" is a train derailment.

[Pettifogger]

Correction: Sorry. Of course "dressing" should have been depressing.

[jollyjones]

jollyjones: After your HAL cruise, I'll be interested in your opinion, which may depend on what aspects of cruising matter most to you. (Many of us think HAL is strong on the basics.) It seems to me that many of the cruise lines are cutting prices sharply on their less popular cruises, so price and value may be even less closely correlated than usual.

.

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm thoroughly looking forward to the cruise and I'm sure I'll enjoy it as much as all the others I've done. However, I wouldn't be surprised if my idea of 'basics' is entirely different from yours and that's a good thing - imagine if we all wanted to do the same things at the same time!

[hammybee]

 

It seems to me that many of the cruise lines are cutting prices sharply on their less popular cruises, so price and value may be even less closely correlated than usual.

 

The majority of HAL cruises are 7 day sails in hyper-competitive waters, Caribbean, Mexico and Alaska. HAL often goes toe to toe on price with the competition.

 

How it is possible to execute a consistent premium experience for the majority of passengers who will not pay a premium for that experience?

[Pettifogger]

hammybee: I can't say that I know how they do it (they probably don't want their competitors to find out), but I give much of the credit to the school in Indonesia. In other respects, I think they are just more passenger oriented than many cruise lines; permitting wine to be brought onboard for sipping in one's cabin is an example. The final test for those of us wedded for life to fixed dining will be whether they continue to make it freely available to those who consider it essential to a premium experience.