Royal Champions

[jaxon41]

Totally unintentional ote]

 

virus subtly infecting everyone, I guess

 

Jaxon -- Royal Chump, charter member

[jaxon41]

Thanks for the information, scary how big brother is watching.

ditto, I learned something, thanks.

[jaxon41]

I agree that the RC reward people who have lots of time to sit and post on the internet. Those of us who have family responsibilities and a job don't qualify.

 

Often when we cruise we book two rooms because we have adult kids. My cruising dollar would go farther with one cabin and no kids. But spending habits are not the criteria.

 

That is why I am a Chump not a Champ since I have to work.

 

Not necessarily, as it appears some do not have high post counts -- important information to be revealed, actually, because the viral nature means those RC wannabees can believe that if they just keep on fawning, or attacking -- Haze's monkey see, monkey do analogy -- they too, can get a bicycle/become a Champ.

[rubrrick]

But sure Kathleen you know the members who were picked by RCCL - just highlight them to bring impartiality back to the boards.

 

JJ -- we know who we forwarded invitations to. We don't know who contacted Royal Caribbean and accepted. We don't know who was contacted on other cruise forums, blogs or usenet groups and may be posting here as well. I think most RCs do identify themselves in their sigs or at least at one time in threads here on the boards shortly after the Liberty of the Seas inaugural. For privacy reasons, we can not identify someone for you.

 

 

Ms Tucker,

 

My apologies for not going to the end of this thread before asking my question to you.

 

You have forthrightly answered the question of why the first group of RC's were asked to join............with a dangle of a free pre inaugural.

 

Then came the second wave of RC's.........of which I am one. We have not been given any "special" treatment. We were asked if we would be willing to give our opinions to a questionnaire.

 

That is the extent of the obligation.......of the group that I'm associated with..........and if anyone thinks that I have been given somethin......for free..........then I'll tell you that you are right!!

 

I have been given an upgrade..............with over 60 RCCL cruise points....with their program of upgrading D+ .

 

I have not been given anything that has anything to do with the RC"s.......except for the fact that I have been asked to be one.

 

With the explanation...........of what is asked of us.........to cooperate in certain serveys.......that we have not ..........so far.....been given....

 

I'm having a hard time trying to understand all of the negativity toward us.

 

So.......I have spoken......and told you what I know about the program.

 

I sat tonight at an Arizona meeting of the Cruise Critics.......and met a couple of people that really want to know what this is about.....and if we are being paid.......or what is really happening. It was wonderful to be able to communicate with them..........about the reality of what is happening here.

 

Also........my apologies for not having the expertise to properly show anything said by others in context.

 

Over the next few days...........all of this will be ironed out......and either the RC's will go away...........as so many on CC want that to happen.......

 

Or........the RC's will continue........and we will see how Royal Caribbean handles this.

 

I have no grudge against anyone that begrudges this....Well....there you have an oxymoron.

 

When RCCL takes away my D+........and RCL.........Champ (for why ever they gave it to me)...........reminds me of the old days of "sock it to me"

 

Meanwhile............I'll stay the course..

 

Many have "cute" sayings in their sig lines.........from Jimmy Buffet, etc

and all I can say...........is.........whatever floats your boat........enjoy your next cruise!!

 

Rick

[5waldos]

Originally Posted by Bakincakes

Exactly.

 

Nice to know that some do hold out for more than a drink and finger sandwichs.

 

I do actually think that RCs were well aware of what their objectives were. RCI seemed to certainly expect glowing posts and lots of them. Doesn't seem like RCI would keep those expectations "secret" from their operatives.

 

No, that is not the way it works. I believe that the vast majority of RCers would have said no to scheme to influence other posters by overstating or otherwise warping their postings. It works precisely because the individuals DO NOT know. RCI kept it secret IN ORDER for this program to work.

[mjldvlks]

I have only one thing to say on this thread. Anything else would be a waste of time and take me away from all the great information and fun going on on the main thread - like the great, wonderful people we are cruising with in less than 30 days.

 

Thank you to the many Royal Champions (you know who you are) :) that have taken time out of your lives (and yes, several of you even work and have families:eek:), to provide us with great, objective information, offers of assistance in preparing for cruises, and answer many of our questions, when I know you had no reason or agenda other than for your love of cruising. I am honored to now call several of you friends. Your answers have always been your honest opinions, sometimes favorable to RCI, others not. But in the 18 months since we started cruising, the ones of you I have cruised with are in large part the reason we love cruising so much today.

 

I for one just hopes that RCI can stay in business in this tough economy, along with all the other cruise lines.

 

I for one will just be thrilled that I have the opportunity to go on another great cruise in less than 30 days on RCI.

 

Have a great weekend and...just a recommendation...how about all the Royal Champions just stop posting here and return over to the main thread and go back to the business we all love, cruising. You know what you knew/did not know, and beyond that, nothing else really matters, IMO. Take care, Mary

[Cruiserccl]

Just reading your response leaves me in no doubt that the carefully crafted report was not of your making. You clearly lack the ability to actually punctuate & capitalise that you displayed in the earlier report.

 

I am cruising RCCL for the first time in April and I am already apprehensive about this cruise as a result of reading many different blogs about RCCL customer focus.

 

I expect that the facilities will be just great but any requests made to "Guest Relations" will be met with either disdain or a protracted debate for the remainder of the cruise. The RCCL website does not show any additional packages that I have purchased and it definitely does not show an OBC for the fuel surcharge that was removed after I paid the final amount.

 

I just know that I am going to be wasting a lot of my time at the Purser's desk arguing for what I am entitled to and, I have seen that re-iterated on many other sites.

 

CC needs to review their stance with regard to what can be included in posts. I do not suggest that they allow open advertising (they clearly carry adverts) but let people freely discuss WHO does and WHO does not provide a good deal when booking a cruise. After all, what does "critic" stand for when you are shackled by what you may or may not say.

Can you please clarify what your trying to say?

[Cruiserccl]

Why a topic in itself? Who cares? This is not an adults only forum. The 14 year old is enthusiastic about cruises. He has made many informative posts here. And I am sure other teens are interested in the perspective of a another teen.

Thank you! I in fact know of MANY other teens on this board who do not share the age in fear of being discriminated upon. Some of these people are very frequent a well respected posters!

[jaxon41]

Thank you! I in fact know of MANY other teens on this board who do not share the age in fear of being discriminated upon. Some of these people are very frequent a well respected posters!

 

Are you the only minor who is an RC -- do you know?

[stanford's girl]

You misunderstood. We DO NOT give out e-mail addresses.

 

I know you don't give out email addresses. I think you misunderstood my question or maybe I worded it wrong. You posted that "CC's involvement ended when they forwarded RCI's request for contact with some CC members to the CC members."

 

My question is will CC forward a contact request to a CC member' date=' if asked by another CC member?[/b']

 

Host Mick' date='

It's been almost an hour since I reworded my question and you still haven't answered me yet. :([/color']

Since Host Mick's green light is now out, can Laura, Kathleen, or any of the other Hosts please answer my question? :(

[Cruiserccl]

Are you the only minor who is an RC -- do you know?

I believe so yes. Why?

[critterchick]

Since Host Mick's green light is now out' date=' can Laura, Kathleen, or any of the other Hosts please answer my question? :([/color']

 

Laura is on the East Coast, and I imagine that the hosts may be in bed or out having fun on a Saturday night.:)

 

And here we are...

 

Also, the fact that a green light is out doesn't mean that the poster isn't online. I keep mine off (I think I do, anyway) whether I'm online or not.

[Alexis]

I am only on here to post to you. ;)

I want to ask a favor of you?

Can you post the pictures, or a link, of your bedroom at home? That way others on here can see what we all saw,

and what RCCL saw, when you joined Cruise Critic?

Then they may understand why RCCL choose you as an RC.

You were the perfect young man with a room like that to talk about RCCL.

And make sure everyone knows that your room has looked like that for how long?

[Cruiserccl]

I am only on here to post to you. ;)

I want to ask a favor of you?

Can you post the pictures, or a link, of your bedroom at home? That way others on here can see what we all saw when you joined Cruise Critic?

Then they may understand why RCCL choose you as an RC.

You were the perfect young man with a room like that to talk about RCCL.

And make sure everyone knows that your room has looked like that for how long?

Thank you! Im finding the link now! This is off topic but could you please email me i have a question about on of the ships you were on. wheresbennie@yahoo.com thanks!

[Cruiserccl]

I am only on here to post to you. ;)

I want to ask a favor of you?

Can you post the pictures, or a link, of your bedroom at home? That way others on here can see what we all saw,

and what RCCL saw, when you joined Cruise Critic?

Then they may understand why RCCL choose you as an RC.

You were the perfect young man with a room like that to talk about RCCL.

And make sure everyone knows that your room has looked like that for how long?

Posted this on CC years ago! Way before i even knew about the RC program!

 

 

 

 

There's MANY more including pictures of my bedroom. The link is in my signature! :D

[stanford's girl]

Laura is on the East Coast, and I imagine that the hosts may be in bed or out having fun on a Saturday night.:)

 

And here we are...

 

Also, the fact that a green light is out doesn't mean that the poster isn't online. I keep mine off (I think I do, anyway) whether I'm online or not.

Thanks Jean but there are still these 3 Hosts that are monitoring the RCCL forum right now and who could answer my question:

Host Mike, Host Jacquelyn, Host Karen

 

And I never understood why posters would not want their light to be on. If I am online, I want want my friends to know that I am here. :)

[jaxon41]

Posted this on CC years ago! Way before i even knew about the RC program!

 

 

 

 

There's MANY more including pictures of my bedroom. The link is in my signature! :D

 

Great murals -- did you paint them? Or a muralist?

[Cruiserccl]

Great murals -- did you paint them? Or a muralist?

My mom had someone do it. It was a surprise i left school in the morning and i came home to that! It was a nice b-day gift! :D Thanks mom! :D

[critterchick]

Thanks Jean but there are still these 3 Hosts that are monitoring the RCCL forum right now and who could answer my question:

Host Mike

' date=' Host Jacquelyn, Host Karen

 

And I never understood why posters would not want their light to be on. If I am online, I want want my friends to know that I am here. :)

 

I had a boss who would often comment that my green light was on.:o Of course, that meant that he was, too, but it was easier to turn it off.

[stanford's girl]

I am going to bed so hopefully when I come back on tomorrow, someone will be able to give me and answer to this question. :(

 

My question is will CC forward a contact request to a CC member, if asked by another CC member?

[CrusinAgain]

My mom had someone do it. It was a surprise i left school in the morning and i came home to that! It was a nice b-day gift! :D Thanks mom! :D

 

That was a wonderful gift. :)

 

I looked at all your pics on webshots of the Royal Room and is this your actual bedroom or an extra room? You must be one clean teen to keep this up. That was a rare sight to see. Hope you are keeping your grades up as well. Your parents must be proud of you. :)

[coxswain]

Thanks Kathleen for the reply !!

 

 

My question to the administrators, Laura contact members for permission to for the RC programs, then Mike says no emails were exchanged. Buzz Metric used the posts, to select the RC, was CC unaware of this process or was Buzz Metrics given access to the database.

 

 

Has to be one of the best question on this sorry saga !!

 

 

 

My questions are

 

1/ Have RCCL or any cruiseline asked CC for any other members info in the past ?

 

2/ Given this whole sorry mess would CC enter into something like this again ?

 

3/ Was RCCL put under any pressure by RCCL to hand over details for this program ?

 

4/ How does CC think we can get past this sorry mess and move forward ?

 

 

 

 

 

jj.........

[jaxon41]

I would like to address the issue of transparency and responsibility

for disclosure that has come up a number of times in this thread.

 

Some have requested that Cruise Critic have a formal policy requiring

RC’s to identify themselves as such. While we can encourage members

to disclose their affiliations, it’s impossible for us to require

it. We are operating an anonymous online community and there’s no

way for us to verify that anyone is who they say they are or aren’t.

 

Many of those who identify themselves as Royal Champions, have been

doing so since they were first called that, in their signatures on

the Cruise Critic message boards. To my knowledge they never tried

to hide it, and in fact were pretty open about it.

 

Was it the RC’s responsibility to disclose that they were part of a

viral marketing program? Based on what I have read on the Cruise

Critic boards, I don’t think the RC’s knew they were part of a viral

marketing program until the recent articles in question came out. I

also don’t think they were told to do anything specifically on Cruise

Critic. Nor do I think Royal Caribbean had or has any control over

what they say here.

 

Was it Cruise Critic’s responsibility to disclose what Royal

Caribbean was doing with its Royal Champion’s program? Royal

Caribbean isn’t in the habit of sharing all of the details of its

marketing programs with Cruise Critic. When Bill Hayden first

contacted us two years ago, it was in regards to forwarding an

invitation to some Cruise Critic members they wanted to invite on the

Liberty of the Seas pre-inaugural sailing. There was no mention of a

Royal Champions viral marketing program at that time. Most of what

we know about the program, we have learned here on the Cruise Critic

boards.

 

Contrary to what some of you may believe, we have never tried to

censor discussions about Royal Champions on the Cruise Critic message

boards. If you search the boards you will find thousands of threads

with that term in them. When this recent debate started there were

multiple threads containing personal attacks and copyrighted material

in them and our staff was overwhelmed. We also believe most people

come here to discuss cruise advice, not Royal Caribbean’s marketing

programs, hence the sticky.

 

Overall, it is my personal opinion that the Cruise Critic members who

identify themselves as Royal Champions love to share their cruise

experiences and are some of the most helpful and candid members of

Cruise Critic. I think they give great advice and will tell you

candidly what they like as well as what they don't like. They did so

before they were chosen to be a Royal Champion. And they continued

to do so after they were chosen. I want to thank them for their

contributions over the years to the Cruise Critic community and I am

deeply saddened by some of the things that have been said here about

them.

 

Some of us would like to go back to talking about cruises. While I

would like to think this discussion has run its course, I know that

some of you will want to continue to debate it. We are going to

rename this thread shortly and unsticky it. Just wanted to let you

know ahead of time so you don’t think it’s been censored!

 

Kathleen Tucker

Publisher

Cruise Critic

 

I tried it -- so far I've seen two threads with the word in the title in the first two pages using the search engine. It's too late to do the research to see if the thousand references were buried 20 posts down OR in a sig line. Does the CC search mechanism work like google's?

 

Just a word about what was perceived as censorship -- do you realize some of us here, and elsewhere actually SAW what was going on -- saw what was on those deleted threads that one night? There is a post here where the writer, a D, as I recall, tells us about asking RCCL about the Royal Champion program and they denied it existed, and told her not to believe what she reads on the internet, people make up things. Yah --

[Ephraim]

Thank you! I in fact know of MANY other teens on this board who do not share the age in fear of being discriminated upon. Some of these people are very frequent a well respected posters!

 

It's an unfortunate reality, I'm afraid. As we have seen, some people seem to discriminate based on the most stupid of reasons, like post count. All of which goes to show that maturity has nothing to do with age.

[WoodyWindy]

Since it has now been several pages since I pointed this out, and some of my interpretations and explanations of Royal Champions and programs like them have been split as responses multiple posts, I am going to consolidate some of them here.

 

First, full disclosure:

- I am NOT a Royal Champion.

- I am NOT an employee or representative of Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines

- I am NOT an employee or representative of Cruise Critic

- I am NOT a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

- I have, in the past, worked for a market research company in a non-market-related capacity

- I have, in the past, been a member of a program that I perceive as similar to the Royal Champions

 

What I'm seeing in Royal Champions is a program very similar to one I was a part of in a very different industry. This was called the MVP program, and was set up to recognize people who contributed positively to the community on a regular basis.

 

This doesn't mean being a lacky or full-time cheerleader, but simply posting their opinions, and helping out others who are new to the system. By definition, anyone with a choice who uses any product regularly is likely to be a fan of that product, and by and large say good things about it.

 

What makes MVPs, and I suspect Champions, different from other customers is that they are willing both to talk about their experiences, and go out of their way to help others. One key thing - MVP's can't generally seek to join the program - they are invited based on their past, voluntary, community activities. It sounds like RC's are selected in a similar way.

 

A part of this recognition is the occasional perk. You might get invited to participate in a product launch, or provide extra feedback to the company. You might get some small token of appreciation. You certainly aren't an employee of the company, and they don't pressure you to say good things. At worst, you might lose your extra status if you are somehow abusive, but generally, you are still free to speak your mind.

 

Like loyalty tiers, these programs are customer focused, and therefore they tend to be handled by the marketing and/or customer relations departments of the companies sponsoring them. So in a way, yes, they are advertising. But they are also customer service, in that MVP's, Royal Champions, or whatever, are answering questions for people that might otherwise have become calls to the company.

 

Have you considered that this is the true purpose of virtually every program by every vendor?

- Are you a member of a frequent flyer program?

- Do you get perks as a frequent cruiser?

- Do you enjoy the upgrades you get as a Gold/Platinum/Diamond/Unobtanium hotel guest?

Do you tell other people about it, or do you "hide" your membership in these programs in order to make sure folks don't think you are "unduly influenced" by them?

 

Just because the selection criteria are different, don't think for a moment that the GOALS or methods of the RC program are any less noble than the goals of the other loyalty programs. They are identical. I don't believe the RC program was *created* to be a viral marketing program, however it - like ALL reward programs - has been "used" in that way.

 

The only thing different here is that, since the "concept" of viral marketing is big on buzz these days, someone admitting to the psychological factors considered in this particular program got quoted.

 

If you thought the RC program was bad, if you saw the kinds of motivational analysis that takes place in formulating the other programs you would have kittens! Here are a couple links to searches on the phrase "loyalty programs and word of mouth" (without the quotes)

 

http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=loyalty+programs+and+word+of+mouth

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=word+of+mouth+and+loyalty+programs&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq

 

These have been related and cross-purposed for ages. If a frequent-X program did nothing but bring current guests back, it would be "ok", but buzz really is an important part of it. They make the high-end reward cards stand out so that the user thinks "I'll flash this and people will see how important I am." They'll brag to their friends how they got upgraded to the Ambassador's suite, or were comped a first-class ticket. (I see lots of RC Diamonds and other programs in signature lines around here… Did you know you were part of a viral marketing campaign?)

 

Believe me, they get a lot of word of mouth "advertising" from loyalty users. They have to in order to make the programs pay.

 

These programs are often misunderstood, even by people within the company sponsoring them. I'm not surprised that a front-line, or even escallation, customer relations person wouldn't have heard of it. Especially when the program is only a couple years old. That doesn't make it "secret", just something that isn't on the average employee's radar. (Of course, the current bruhaha probably put it on a lot more radar screens!)

 

On the disclosure front, the benefits to the program are minimal - the occasional invite to a special event, and the "Shiny Badge" that allows you to claim "I 'r' one" - even compared to a mid-tier frequent cruiser. I feel that if you don't require disclosure about one, you shouldn't need to disclose the other. Both are award programs based, nominally, on "things you're doing anyway". Both are designed, ultimately, to bring in more business. They just reward different activities.

 

On those "activities" and other selection criteria, another example would be United's Global Services. It isn't a "Champion" type program, but it is a "reward" program that you can't just sign-up for. While it has members that are otherwise Frequent Flyers (e.g. Premier 1k), that isn't the only possible criteria for membership. There is a subjective element.

 

All Champion-type programs have both objective and subjective factors. The objective factors might include how much posting someone does. The subjective would include the nature of those posts, and how broad the readership is. These are almost certainly NOT the only factors considered.

Another factor, independent of the individual "candidates" is that the number of participants is usually limited to a certain target, so most everyone who meets the objective factors won't make it in, and only the tip-top of the subjective folks.

 

While, over time, you can get a feel for the subjective factors, very rarely are they explicitly published. Again, this isn't unique to RCCL. The United Global Services and Microsoft MVP programs both keep their subjective factors close to the vest

 

The bottom line is, this is nothing new. You only just found out about it.

 

Now, I'm not saying that this is exactly how the RC program works, but I would be surprised if it was very different. I certainly have no problem with it (and I'm someone who got vocal against the for-fee Steak thing), and offer what I believe are well-deserved congratulations to those who were selected to be a part of the RC program!