If US Airways employees strike, what happens?

[JandD Mom]

Hi everyone,

 

I know that a few of the US Airways bargaining units are poised for a strike in the event the latest round of negotiations does not work out. I know the bankruptcy court is holding hearings this month on imposing new terms on several of the units and that could exacerbate the situation. From what I heard (and correct me if I am wrong) they are worried about reservation agents, gate agents, and flight attendants.

 

So I am travelling 1/13 from PHL on USAir (to FLL) and returning 1/23. I purchased refundable tickets on Southwest as a hedge, since we are cruising and must be in FLL on time. However, what happens if they strike? Will operations cease or be slowed? Will they re-accomodate people on other airlines? And how does trip insurance fit into all of this?

 

I know that the Federal Law requiring airlines to accept tickets in the event a carrier ceases operations has expired. However, what are our rights in the event of a strike or slowdown?

[bUU]

The federal law you're referring to expired November 19. Its extension was tacked on as an amendment to some other bill, but that bill has not gotten out of committee, last I heard.

 

The issue with a strike is actually a bit deeper: Unions at three other airlines (including the airline I have my non-refundable backup reservations on -- I just cannot catch a break!!!) have already agreed to go on strike along with those at US Airways. I don't remember if Southwest was one of the three.

 

To answer your question directly, there is good news and bad news. Since the airline on strike isn't out of business, their tickets still have value. You can almost surely get a refund, unless the airline has made arrangements to carry you on some other routing or alternative carrier (as long as they can do so on the same day of your original flight, though not necessarily in the exact same timeframe). Beyond that, and more immediately (since a refund will take time to be processed), you can go to the airline on-strike, wait on an insanely long queue to work with the manager of the folks on strike, who is now the only person who can do any of that work, who will be able to convert your ticket (electronic or paper) into an endorsed paper ticket, which you can then carry over to another airline which will almost surely accept it at face value toward the purchase of a ticket on their airline, assuming they have room to accommodate you.

 

Wish I had better news for you. Hope the strike doesn't happen (at least until after you're already on vacation :)).

[teegeezfun]

I was studying this stuff after bicker metioned the sympathy strikes at other airlines (got me worried) and apparently the type of strike they are planning is one that will not encompass the whole system at one time. "chaos". it is more of a random thing, groups in different areas of the country suddenly walking off the job, while others are still working elsewhere. the harm being you won't know what airport will strike and what airport won't...

[greatam]

Bicker,

 

I just received the following paragraph in an email from one of my customs brokers.

 

"Please be aware that the common practice of transferring cargo from a striking airline to a non-striking airline, under DOT 6894A7, will not apply if US Airways is entangled in a strike action. Due to the bankruptcy filing, transfer to another carrier incurs liabilities to US Airways, which have not been pre-approved by US Bankruptcy Court. We will keep you updated if there are further changes. If a strike should occur, please make arrangements for paid cargo shipments with another carrier and update your manifests and docs, especially for in-bond shipments."

 

The way I interpret the paragraph-no transfer of passenger tickets, either. Under normal circumstances, if one airline issues a paper ticket (same thing for my cargo manifests) which is used on another airline, airline 1 now OWES airline 2 for the ticket (manifest). I would venture that some airlines will take the paper, but with some of the legacy airlines in bankruptcy and the others teetering, that is NOT a smart business decision.

 

I just got off the phone with three airlines, trying to make arrangements to transport our fragile stuff into and out of Florida. This is a nightmare, during our very busy holiday season. If I was going to cruise in Dec/Jan, I would book backup air tickets with JetBlue or Southwest off the East Coast, as they were the only two carriers who could guarantee any availability.

[bUU]

Nope, the liability protection stuff wouldn't apply to passenger tickets. Passenger tickets are covered by customer protection laws. However, you are correct that some airlines may balk at accepting paper tickets from a bankrupt airline, for fear on not being able to collect.

[greatam]

Nope, the liability protection stuff wouldn't apply to passenger tickets. Passenger tickets are covered by customer protection laws. However, you are correct that some airlines may balk at accepting paper tickets from a bankrupt airline, for fear on not being able to collect.

 

What liability protection stuff are you talking about??? I stated the bankrupt airline would incur more liabilities (debts to other airlines for carriage of bankrupt carriers' passengers) which are not on their schedule with the Courts. Can't incur more debt when you are in bankruptcy without the Court's permission.

 

Consumer protection laws only apply to certain portions of a passenger ticket (refund from credit card, baggage liability, etc.). They do not guarantee that you will be able to use your ticket on another airline. If they did, no need for the legislation which expired Nov. 19. Consumer protections are also wiped out by bankruptcy law. Think about it-why do a lot of companies file bankruptcy when they get hit with a large judgement on a consumer issue?-Dow-Corning being one which comes to mind (LOL). You only become a creditor, in a LONG line of creditors. Some portions of the DOT, IATA, FAA, and NTSB rules and regulations may also overrule some portions of consumer protection laws.

 

Logistics and transportation are what I do for a living, including booking $480,000 in air tickets so far this year for our trade show partners and our set-up people. I have been at it for almost 30 years, since I graduated from law school, with a transportation law specialty. I really do know what I am talking about. Just trying to help those who do not deal with this everyday.

[bUU]

Can't incur more debt when you are in bankruptcy without the Court's permission. ... Can't incur more debt when you are in bankruptcy without the Court's permission.

Yup, that's the liability protection stuff I was referring to.

 

Consumer protection laws require refunds of the cost of passenger tickets for services not rendered. The passengers, in that case, aren't unsecured creditors, and get their refunds directly from the banks. Endorsements are a standard practice in the industry, and wouldn't fall in the category of being an unscheduled liability.

[greatam]

The start of this discussion was NOT about getting a refund. Yes, I concur, refunds are part of the consumer protection laws that have nothing to do with bankruptcy. I even stated that in my previous post.

 

You posted how to EXCHANGE a US airways e-ticket (or any striking airline) ticket, for the benefit of someone trying to get to or from a cruise.

"which you can then carry over to another airline which will almost surely accept it at face value toward the purchase of a ticket on their airline, assuming they have room to accommodate you."

 

I posted I do not believe that US Air tickets will be transferable, due to the bankruptcy filing. Those exchange tickets would definitely be a LIABILITY, per the bankruptcy laws. Getting a refund does no one any good when they are attempting to fly to a cruise.

 

In the end, you can cross you fingers, hope US Air doesn't go on strike, hope another airline can accommodate you with a PAID ticket, which will most likely be darned expensive, or the best solution, book a refundable back up airline ticket or have another Plan B. Some of the travel insurance companies are not going to insure for trip interruption or cancellation, due to airline strikes. Travelguard and others have notified their customers that any policies purchased after Nov. 16 will NOT have trip interruption or cancellation on 26 US airlines, whose flight attendants are members of the Association of Flight Attendandts, CWA. http://www.travelguard.com/news/031401b.asp?rnd=40403206258030725 Rough sailing ahead, I am afraid.

[pattyk]

please help me to understand-I have only flown twice in my life- I did purchase travelgard insurance on nov.2- so if they are on stike what do i do ? what are my options?

[bUU]

greatam: What I posted is that other airlines would accept endorsed paper tickets. What you posted would indicate that US Airways wouldn't issue endorsed paper tickets. While I disagree with you, the two things are not mutually-exclusive.

 

pattyk: Travel Guard hasn't been granting insurance on US Airways financial default since September 12. I suspect only the cruise portion of your trip is covered in that scenario. Travel Guard was insuring US Airways against strike up until last week, so you should be covered in that scenario.

[JandD Mom]

Since I am the person who started this thread, I want to say thank you for participating. I love it when people who clearly know what they are talking about add very thoughtful views to the topic at hand. I thought I would just come back to my original intent a little however.

 

The start of this discussion was NOT about getting a refund. Yes, I concur, refunds are part of the consumer protection laws that have nothing to do with bankruptcy. I even stated that in my previous post.

.

 

Actually, what I would love to do in the event of a strike is be able to forget about USAirways, take my Southwest flights, and submit the cost difference to my travel insurer (travelex). I am not sure whether I could get a refund from USAir if travelex won't cover it, but I could always have Visa sort it out if USAir can't get me to FLL in time for the cruise. I have read the policy several times, it provides coverage for a strike which it defines as a complete cessation of business for a 48 hour period. I am not sure whether that will happen, since I would bet a judge would order flight attendants back to work under a temporary injunction until the Railway Labor Act issues, bankruptcy court jurisdictional issues, and negotiations issues can be worked out. There is an interesting issue as to whether RLA would apply if the bankruptcy court cancels the bargaining agreements. My bet would be on the restraining order until appeals courts sort that out.

 

The other issue is whether there will be sympathy strikes by flight attendants at other airlines should USAir flight attendants walk out. I have read that FAs at both American and Southwest have taken the vote to walk out if US Air FAs walk out. My guess is, and I would have to read up on it some more, that the RLA would apply here to stop the sympathy strikers. That means the cooling off period, the federal arbitrator, etc. But how do you arbitrate a sympathy strike? The whole situation is getting very complicated.

 

A final positive thought, I bought my insurance back in April, long before USAir was in bankruptcy or on strike. So I am sure I have coverage for bankruptcy. However, I can only imagine the aggravation of trying to get Visa to get the money back before travelex pays. I am sure it would be a while before it all gets sorted out. :eek:

 

Any thoughts?

[Globaliser]

Travelguard and others have notified their customers that any policies purchased after Nov. 16 will NOT have trip interruption or cancellation on 26 US airlines, whose flight attendants are members of the Association of Flight Attendandts, CWA. http://www.travelguard.com/news/031401b.asp?rnd=40403206258030725 Rough sailing ahead, I am afraid.

Wow - does Travelguard ever update its lists? The BA strike has long been and gone and there can be no further strikes without a new strike ballot. AFAIK, ditto for the QF strike - that dispute's been settled. The CX pilots strike vote is ancient history. Etc. etc. :rolleyes:

[greatam]

JandD Mom

 

It will be a long, convoluted road to normalcy, if there is a strike. Arbitrators, cooling off period, etc. for US Air, maybe???. "Sympathy" strikes on other airlines. Judge is NOT supposed to rule on breaking union contracts until after the first of the year, but that doesn't mean he can't do it before. All the rules and regulations defining this situation, many which conflict.

 

If I was in your situation, (I sort of am with prepaid freight on US Air):

 

Your insurance should cover cost differences. If you have use for a US Air ticket soon after your cruise, what about cancelling your US Air tickets? Would cost you the change fee, if they don't strike, and of course, the higher fare on Southwest. If they strike, you may be in for a battle with travel insurance if they know you cancelled pre-cruise, but with enough documentation, you should prevail and recoup the difference. Can anyone say Small Claims??? It's a shame vacations have come to this.

 

After checking availability for our freight, which has a LOT to do with passenger loads, and finding Jet Blue and Southwest were the only carriers who could actually guarantee availability, I'd take the Southwest flight. I would bet the Southwest FA's would be the last to walk off the job.

 

I am moving freight to other carriers, as rapidly as possible. And yes, we will probably loose some money, due to the prepaid and higher costs on other carriers. I can't take a chance of being in a situation with a pallet worth $20,000 waiting for shipment and a strike is called. Should apply to you also-waiting for takeoff, two days away, and they strike. The airports will be an absolute ZOO. I feel so sorry for people, especially those who fly only occasionally. They have NO idea what is going on or how to handle it. Surely will be some missed cruises and vacations, if a strike is called. Good luck. If there is anything I can do to help, please feel free to email. It's in my profile.

 

Globaliser

 

Yes, Travelguard is slightly out of date. Guess they didn't put their website on a "cut and paste" basis. LOL. But they sure have covered themselves for almost all contingencies. May not be the best travel insurance to buy. It is really pushed by the TA's here in the US. Our company buys Travelex Lite. Seems to cover most everything we need, with slightly lower limits for death and med evac. Other things are covered by our company policies. If I send someone out of the US for a trade show, I purchase extra everything, especially medical and evac. May be a "feel good" decision, but it does make ME feel good. I don't want someone in podunk, having to deal with whatever medical care is available.

Question for you: How did you get just a portion of my post to show up? I am the most computer illiterate person on CC. When I try to put a portion of a post in a reply, it looks weird.

XXXX

and that is the way it shows on my posts. Not like yours.

 

Bicker,

 

I am not going to argue with you anymore. I did not post that US would NOT issue paper tickets. I stated the tickets may not be transferred to another airline, due to the bankruptcy filing. Some airlines may honor them, hoping they can recoup. But I am sure many won't. Just like my freight-I have prepaid US Air to transport. Under normal circumstances, with a strike action at one airline, I can take my freight to another carrier, and they will bill back the originating carrier. NOT this time.

[bUU]

I would bet the Southwest FA's would be the last to walk off the job.

Tuesday, November 23, 2004

 

The war drums are hastening at US Airways in anticipation of next week's hearings in U.S. Bankruptcy Court to reject union contracts. Over the weekend, flight attendants groups at two other airlines -- Southwest, represented by the Transportation Workers Union; and American Airlines, which has its own union -- said they would honor any nationwide strike called over the termination of collective bargaining agreements."

I am not going to argue with you anymore. I did not post that US would NOT issue paper tickets. I stated the tickets may not be transferred to another airline, due to the bankruptcy filing.

I know, which is why I couldn't understand why you were disputing what I said, given that it didn't contradict what you said. Whatever. Clearly we were talking past each other.

[Globaliser]

Question for you: How did you get just a portion of my post to show up? I am the most computer illiterate person on CC. When I try to put a portion of a post in a reply, it looks weird. [ Quote=???] XXXX [ Quote] and that is the way it shows on my posts. Not like yours.

All I do is to click the Reply with Quote button, and delete all the bits that I don't want in the quote. But you have to make sure you preserve the initial QUOTE code at the beginning and the /QUOTE code at the end. It's the one at the end which is often at risk of getting mangled by too-enthusiastic deleting. (I've taken the square brackets off so that they don't operate.)

[greatam]

Globaliser,

 

Thanks

 

I'll try that next time.

 

Gina

[finally928]

Wow - does Travelguard ever update its lists? The BA strike has long been and gone and there can be no further strikes without a new strike ballot. AFAIK, ditto for the QF strike - that dispute's been settled. The CX pilots strike vote is ancient history. Etc. etc. :rolleyes:

 

So if you can, please clarify something for me.

 

I chose Travelguard insurance as it would cover my boyfriend's military issues better than the other insurance companies that i checked out, but I hadn't seen this list before. (I did see the "airlines we wont cover" list, but not one for Flight Attendants.)

 

After reading the initial posts when US AIR found they were having major troubles, I cancelled my US Air tix and went with American. Now it looks like my policy, bought in October, is virtually useless in the event that Americans FA's sympathy strike w/ US Air.

 

Did I interpret that right? Or is the American FA listing on that list just an out of date issue and not applicable in this case? I thought that American was one of the stablest airlines around???

 

I can't afford to lose this vacation, the money for the flights, etc, over this. And I don't think I can cancel my insurance to find another carrier who will cover American under all situations.

 

Thanks for any guidance anyone can provide ..

[greatam]

finally928

 

RELAX. To the best of my knowledge, your Travelguard insurance policy will cover you in case of "sympathy" strikes, if you purchased PRIOR to the strike vote date, Nov. 16.

 

AA is my airline of choice and after talking to FA's on my long trip Tuesday, IF they walk out, it will be sporadic at best. From what I was told, it will primarily be the senior FA's, who were adamant about the "sympathy" strike vote. Since they bid for flights based on seniority, unless your cruise is out of Japan, Europe or South America, you may not have much trouble if they walk out.

 

I really think you should be OK. But I would have the schedule of AA's flights to your destination in hand just in case. And please fly to your cruise a day or two early. Enjoy!!! Please thank your boyfriend for his service from all of us.

[finally928]

greatam ...

 

thank you so much for your response ... I am trying so hard to not to think that something is gonna get in the way of this cruise!!!

 

Since we are both flying out of the Northeast, we are actually flying out two days prior to the cruise. I had built in the additional time based on possible snow issues, but I guess it will come in handy in case of strike issues as well.

 

And I will pass along your thanks .... he has been working hard w/ Homeland Security and really needs this break!

[bUU]

Also, the AA FAs will likely be ordered back to work by the President. (There are some who think that he could order the US FAs back to work, but that's actually probably not the case, since the reason why the US FAs would go out on strike is because a judge nullified their CBA. The President can only order workers back to work who are covered by a CBA, which, at that point, the US FAs wouldn't.)

[beckers]

I'm planning on going to FLL in April our only carrier out of our little regional airport is US air. It probably is not good to purchase the US air tickets now?

I can drive an hour to Harrisburg, PA and get another carrier any thoughts???

Thanks, Becky

[parody]

I'm planning on going to FLL in April

April seems far enough off that you can easily wait until the dust settles by the end of January (say) before you need to reassess options. (BTW, is Philadelphia too far away?)

[greatam]

As a general rule, the longer you wait to purchase your air tickets, the more expensive they become. That said, you may catch a sale late and get a bargain. The judge in the US case is supposed to make a decision about breaking the union contracts sometime after the first of the year. It has been stated in many financial publications that US only has enough cash to survive through January, without MAJOR concessions from the unions. It is a no win situation for everyone.

 

If it was my decision, I would drive to Harrisburg.

[beckers]

I think I will buy United tickets now and drive to Harrisburg Phila. is 3 more hours away. Save the hassle of changing the tickets to another airline later from US air it they go under. Thanks for your help.