Carnival Cruiselines going Airline?

[maxamuus]

The Ultimate Flamepost... but I am curious on folks opnions...

 

I work for a airline. I have been with my airline almost 20 years. When i started with my airline 20 years ago the prices were roughly what they are now. (No I'm not kidding) 20 years ago it cost roughly 200 dollars to fly from NYC to Florida today it still costs roughly 200 dollars to fly round trip NYC to Florida. The difference? We have CUT EVERYTHING from the flights. No food, no magazines, no newspapers, extra fees for everything thing you can imagine.... Yet customers still want the lower fares and are willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING to get the cheapest fare to get from point A to B.

 

I have notice a lot of posts of late of cruise lines starting the cuts too. Do you think the cruise lines and Carnival are starting that slow decline till the days the cruise fare is nothing more then for the cabin ???

 

Be civil just curious where you see Carnival in 20 years time....

[FlaKrznNubie]

Interesting idea...... :rolleyes:

 

Could be where cruising is headed....

[tedjazz]

You might be onto something. It does appear to be headed that way. Many people who have cruised for more than 5 or 10 years seem to remember that "special pampered" feeling and that does now seem to be going away. I don't know if that is good or not, but it is what it is. :)

BTW, Good Topic, I hope it doesn't get flamed.

[Cruisin' Ron VA]

Well it appears that Norwegian cruiselines is on track to make everyone pay for food.

 

I hear a lot of the onboard restaurants are pay.

 

I am not sure how much more the cruiselines can get as far as going bare bones.

 

I can live without chocolate on my pillow every night. I pay for booze and shore tours anyway...Just dont charge for the main dining room or the evening entertainment and I am happy.

 

For the majority of my flying I am on a plane for maybe an hour to 2 hours. I bring my own soda a snack, and MP3 player and I am set. The airlines can keep their half can of soda and packet of pretzels. I hate pretzels.

[winddawn]

You might be onto something. It does appear to be headed that way. Many people who have cruised for more than 5 or 10 years seem to remember that "special pampered" feeling and that does now seem to be going away. I don't know if that is good or not, but it is what it is. :)

BTW, Good Topic, I hope it doesn't get flamed.

I'm one of those who has been cruising a long time--nearly 20 years. Many things have changed during that time.

 

My fellow cruiser this week on Fascination and I were talking about how they don't scrape the crumbs off of the tablecloth in the dining room any more. The supper menu that is 2 pages now used to be 6 pages or so. Used to be able to get exceptional coffee in the dining room. Not any more. I guess that is why we don't even bother going to the dining room. The food is similar to that on the buffet, and I don't have to wait for my drink glass to be filled at the buffet. I can sit where I want to at the buffet too, and can easily get away from annoyances. The cabin steward used to be at your beck and call. Now you hardly ever see them. I very much appreciate how hard they work though. They are stretched to the limit.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still love cruising and do it often. But the topic is where cruising is heading, and I agree with Ted: that special pampered feeling is going away. The price point is everything. As the OP stated about flying: prices stay about the same over time. Carnival has to improve profits so they start charging for some things that used to be free, and cut other things where they can get away with it.

 

I'll continue to cruise though. I find my own ways to make my cruise special. I might book a better cabin. Having great company for my cruise makes it special. I refuse to pay extra onboard for things they are charging for unless they come up with something that really interests me. So far I haven't found anything onboard that I'm willing to pay extra for. I'm glad there are people willing to pay more though because it helps keep the price of my cruise down and increases the value of my Carnival shares. :-)

 

This is a great topic worth discussing. I hope too that it doesn't get flamed.

[ahoys]

I've also been cruising for more than 20 years, and I've seen a reduction of what used to be offered onboard. But remember that the older cruises were on ships that held smaller number of cruisers. I'm sure with the economy, Carnival (as has everyone else) is making fewer personnel handle greater number of guests.

I remember that in the old days, we only had one cabin steward who took care of a few cabins. We would see him in the morning, afternoon, and evening. He'd have time to stand for a few minutes to chat about what we did in port, how was our day, etc. Now, two cabin stewards rush through many cabins on the deck and have little time to stop and chat.

When Carnival's ships grew, first with the Fantasy class ships, and then grew rapidly when the Destiny, Spirit, Conquest class ships were introduced, we lost a bit of the personalized, pampered experiences that were the norm on the Carnivale, the Holiday, and the other smaller ships.

We've also gotten used to the attitude that we deserve things that are free. We have become cruisers that like to demand compensation for things that inconvenience us. As a business, Carnival has to find a way to please demanding passengers, yet stay profitable today.

I don't like some of the changes that I've seen on the ships since I began cruising on the Holiday in 1986. But I also don't like the changes that I've seen in the passengers since I started sailing either. It's a different era--Carnival doesn't have to try to convince people that cruising is fun. We're already sold on cruising. They now have to convince us to continue sailing with them. I've sailed with other cruise lines, and continue to come back to Carnival. Despite the changes, it still makes me excited to plan the next trip, and I'm looking forward to the Triumph in June. I'll probably notice some other changes that will make me nostalgic for the past, but I'll still enjoy it.

[tef43]

Things have certainly changed since my first cruise in 1983.

 

Ahoys might remember the *free* rum swizzle parties that Carnival used to hold, at least twice on each voyage. Those days are long gone.

 

I do not believe that we will ever get to the pure ala carte model of certain airlines, because a cruise, unlike a flight, is much more than simply getting from Point A to Point B.

 

What we will see, and already have in some cases, are cuts in those offerings that no longer make sense from a pricing perspective, and would be missed by a small percentage of passengers. Can anyone say "Gala Midnight Buffet"?

[rh3]

Part of it has to do with the scale of the newer ships, I'm sure, and there are advantages. My first cruise, in 1989, was on NCL's Skyward. Bounced all over the southern Carribean on this 23,000 ton ship. What I paid for an inside cabin, and great personal service, was roughly the same as what I paid for an aft balcony on the Glory sailing this July. (Platinum cruise:D.) I agree that the dining room service and food quality are somewhat diminished from the "old days," but cruising is still the best travel value around. A couple of nights in the specialty restaurant is enough of a reminder, for me, as to what it "used to be." Sad, in a way, but it makes cruising something I'm willing to pay for more often, instead of one of those over the top vacations.

[*Mach*]

Ya' know... I've said it on many of these types of threads before and I'll say it again... I've seen no reduction in the quality or the quantity of service on Carnival ships.

Consider what has happened at other cruise lines, most notably RCCL, where you pay for late room service, 'premium' steaks in main dining, burgers at 'Johnny Rockets' and reductions in services to even their most loyal cruisers.

In my most humble opinion, the quality of the experience on Carnival has only gotten better as the years have passed. My first cruise on Carnival was in 1998 in a Cat 12 on the Inspiration and, although I was thoroughly impressed, my more recent cruises have been considerably better including on the same ship in exactly the same cabin.

:)

[Minoushka]

I believe cruising one day will no longer be for middle income earners but for people with more $$$$ as it used to be....Why because land vacations all inclusive can be pretty inviting with fabulous rooms and great meal plans .I think nickel and diming will eventually kill cruising .You do have an image of cruising and luxury and service ....this is disappearing .

To pay a lot $$$ and be expected to pay more for food for specialty restaurants to get better food does not sit well with me .I am booked on NCL but I am uncomfortable about SO many specialty restaurants I need to pay for .I decided on this cruise because of the itinerary..HOWEVER if it does not meet my expectations they will lose me as a customer PERMANENTLY!!!I'm still hesitant about this cruise I also feel it is expensive if I have to book specialty restaurants regularly

I think people will not mind paying a little more to get what was customary before .If you cheapen quality on cruises any more people will find other vacations

I want great service and nice dinners ..If you get rid of these WHY AM I GOING ON A CRUISE??Cabins cannot be the incentive .PORTS??well after a few cruises you probably did all of them EASTERN and WESTERN CARIB .I did

Some ships -big bold new ones will be the DESTINATION itself..I'm thinking Oasis and Allure

 

Would it not be great to have a ship only sail to private islands a REAL BEACH VACATION for 7 days

 

I would love that plus the cruiseline can plan all the fun activity and rake it in -I would assume little would be free except the picnic lunch But they could set up jet ski ,zipline ,peddalboat ,sailing Kayaking etc and charge .All companies have enough private islands to be able to do that!!!They would control all the passengers spending and be the sole recipient of these funds .This would be referred to as a CRUISE BEACH VACATION an alternative to going to PORTS

I would love that!!!

And if certain companies want to set up shops Go for it!!!

[zqvol]

I'm one of those who has been cruising a long time--nearly 20 years. Many things have changed during that time.

 

My fellow cruiser this week on Fascination and I were talking about how they don't scrape the crumbs off of the tablecloth in the dining room any more. The supper menu that is 2 pages now used to be 6 pages or so. Used to be able to get exceptional coffee in the dining room. Not any more. I guess that is why we don't even bother going to the dining room. The food is similar to that on the buffet, and I don't have to wait for my drink glass to be filled at the buffet. I can sit where I want to at the buffet too, and can easily get away from annoyances. The cabin steward used to be at your beck and call. Now you hardly ever see them. I very much appreciate how hard they work though. They are stretched to the limit.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still love cruising and do it often. But the topic is where cruising is heading, and I agree with Ted: that special pampered feeling is going away. The price point is everything. As the OP stated about flying: prices stay about the same over time. Carnival has to improve profits so they start charging for some things that used to be free, and cut other things where they can get away with it.

 

I'll continue to cruise though. I find my own ways to make my cruise special. I might book a better cabin. Having great company for my cruise makes it special. I refuse to pay extra onboard for things they are charging for unless they come up with something that really interests me. So far I haven't found anything onboard that I'm willing to pay extra for. I'm glad there are people willing to pay more though because it helps keep the price of my cruise down and increases the value of my Carnival shares. :-)

 

This is a great topic worth discussing. I hope too that it doesn't get flamed.

 

Of course cruise prices, in real dollars are 75% less than they were 20 years ago, and in actual dollars are about 30% less than they were. People want more and more and are demanding to pay less and less. Well guess what, that does not equate.

[Rev. Joe]

They have made a ton of cutbacks just in the last few years but they cannot start charging for food. Specialty restaruants are one thing but most people who are first timers, the biggest thing they think about is food and lots of it for free. That is not the reason I cruise, but it is a nice perk!:D Free food in a way is amost the face of cruising for the first timer. It is a floating all inclusive (not really) Resort.

[nolaAlive]

If you want to see flames....

 

Hmmm. 20 years ago there was still (some) smoking on airplanes. Now there is none.

 

When airlines go bankrupt they sometimes get bailed out, when cruise lines go bankrupt, they stay that way.

 

Yeah, maybe the cruise lines should adopt the airline model.

[ahoys]

Ahoys might remember the *free* rum swizzle parties that Carnival used to hold, at least twice on each voyage. Those days are long gone.

 

Those rum swizzles were my absolute favorite part of the first night's festivities. I sure miss them!

 

What we will see, and already have in some cases, are cuts in those offerings that no longer make sense from a pricing perspective, and would be missed by a small percentage of passengers. Can anyone say "Gala Midnight Buffet"?

 

I don't miss the nightly buffets, but I do miss the Gala Midnight Buffet. That was something special.

[tef43]

I don't miss the nightly buffets, but I do miss the Gala Midnight Buffet. That was something special.

I do too, but as posted by others in this thread, it's a completely different passenger dynamic today. Carnival came to the conclusion that the gala presentation was a colossal waste of food and did away with it.

[Luv4dacruise]

Ya' know... I've said it on many of these types of threads before and I'll say it again... I've seen no reduction in the quality or the quantity of service on Carnival ships.

 

Consider what has happened at other cruise lines, most notably RCCL, where you pay for late room service, 'premium' steaks in main dining, burgers at 'Johnny Rockets' and reductions in services to even their most loyal cruisers.

 

In my most humble opinion, the quality of the experience on Carnival has only gotten better as the years have passed. My first cruise on Carnival was in 1998 in a Cat 12 on the Inspiration and, although I was thoroughly impressed, my more recent cruises have been considerably better including on the same ship in exactly the same cabin.

 

:)

 

With all do respect Host Mach, your first cruise was only 11 years ago. Many things had been changed at even that point, just not to the extent of now.

 

My first cruise on the Mardi Gras (yeah, i was a little kid) and second cruise on the Costa Riviera (a couple years older) then onto the Monarch of the Seas in 1992, cruising was still with the streamers and champagne on sailaway type of deal. If i were to compare now to then, it would be like comparing Ruths Chris tot he Outback.

 

Not gonna keep me from cruising, but all across the board cruising has seen major cutbacks over the past 20 years.

[tef43]

If i were to compare now to then, it would be like comparing Sonic to Ruths Chris.

Fixed that for ya.

[nolaAlive]

With all do respect Host Mach, your first cruise was only 11 years ago. Many things had been changed at even that point, just not to the extent of now.

 

My first cruise on the Mardi Gras (yeah, i was a little kid) and second cruise on the Costa Riviera (a couple years older) then onto the Monarch of the Seas in 1992, cruising was still with the streamers and champagne on sailaway type of deal. If i were to compare now to then, it would be like comparing Ruths Chris tot he Outback.

 

Not gonna keep me from cruising, but all across the board cruising has seen major cutbacks over the past 20 years.

 

Those aren't cutbacks. Hell, I used to enjoy skeet shooting off of cruise ships before Carnival existed.

 

It's a result of environmentalists, some activities loosing appeal, and above all, passengers to cheap to pay for them.

 

It's called evolution.

[*Mach*]

With all do respect Host Mach, your first cruise was only 11 years ago. Many things had been changed at even that point, just not to the extent of now.

 

My first cruise on the Mardi Gras (yeah, i was a little kid) and second cruise on the Costa Riviera (a couple years older) then onto the Monarch of the Seas in 1992, cruising was still with the streamers and champagne on sailaway type of deal. If i were to compare now to then, it would be like comparing Ruths Chris tot he Outback.

 

Not gonna keep me from cruising, but all across the board cruising has seen major cutbacks over the past 20 years.

 

 

All this is true but at the time that you began cruising (please don't think that I'm trying to say you're old... ;)) the cruise industry has evolved something that few can afford to something that nearly everyone can afford.

When I first sailed on a Carnival ship (I sailed on other lines previously...) I paid more for my Cat 12 cabin on the Inspiration than I did last April!! I didn't see any change in service from 11 years ago until this past April. I'd say that's an amazing thing!!!

I'd LOVE to have the streamers and champagne at sail away (I've never seen it...) but I'll take the ability to cruise four or five times a year in it's place...

:)

[DocF]

Ya' know... I've said it on many of these types of threads before and I'll say it again... I've seen no reduction in the quality or the quantity of service on Carnival ships.

 

Consider what has happened at other cruise lines, most notably RCCL, where you pay for late room service, 'premium' steaks in main dining, burgers at 'Johnny Rockets' and reductions in services to even their most loyal cruisers.

 

In my most humble opinion, the quality of the experience on Carnival has only gotten better as the years have passed. My first cruise on Carnival was in 1998 in a Cat 12 on the Inspiration and, although I was thoroughly impressed, my more recent cruises have been considerably better including on the same ship in exactly the same cabin.

 

:)

 

One must consider the financial dynamics of the two companies. Carnival Corp. had the almost mystical ability to make gold out of dross. They have a wonderful understanding of the marketplace and why passengers at the various price points cruise. Thus, their lines, no matter how they were run before, are well-run and profitable.

 

They understand what is extraneous and can be cut without making the paying passengers upset. Yes, Carnival has cut some things, but nothing that really makes a difference for the folks who pay the bills.

 

RCI, on the other hand has led a hand to mouth existence ever since the three Norwegian shipping firms that started it sold out. It is highly leveraged and must scramble to keep its head above water. Celebrity, while a higher price point line, has never been much of a profit center. I do not believe that it made money for John Chandris (that can't be determined as it was privately held) and I am certain it has become, at best a break even operation for RCI. When they failed to get Princess, they had to do a major re-think and it will be years before they get their debt load down to a reasonable level. That is why they are currently nickel and diming their passengers to death.

 

I do think it tells us something that Carnival has been led by a college drop-out and RCI by a Wharton School of Business graduate during this time.

 

Doc

[Uncle Doug]

We have also been cruising for almost 20 years. The Mardi Gras was our first cruise in 1990. The price we pay per day, per person in 2009 even before the resent discounts is still much less than we paid 19 years ago. I would say about half of what we paid back then per day, per person. While the cruise lines costs per person may of gone down with the larger ships they are doing what they need to do to stay afloat.

 

I think cruising and Carnival cruise lines is still the best family value vacation around. If someone really feels they need that pampered service there are still some upscale cruise lines out there. Of course you will not be able to book for anywhere near the price of a Carnival cruise.

[*Mach*]

One must consider the financial dynamics of the two companies. Carnival Corp. had the almost mystical ability to make gold out of dross. They have a wonderful understanding of the marketplace and why passengers at the various price points cruise. Thus, their lines, no matter how they were run before, are well-run and profitable.

 

They understand what is extraneous and can be cut without making the paying passengers upset. Yes, Carnival has cut some things, but nothing that really makes a difference for the folks who pay the bills.

 

RCI, on the other hand has led a hand to mouth existence ever since the three Norwegian shipping firms that started it sold out. It is highly leveraged and must scramble to keep its head above water. Celebrity, while a higher price point line, has never been much of a profit center. I do not believe that it made money for John Chandris (that can't be determined as it was privately held) and I am certain it has become, at best a break even operation for RCI. When they failed to get Princess, they had to do a major re-think and it will be years before they get their debt load down to a reasonable level. That is why they are currently nickel and diming their passengers to death.

 

I do think it tells us something that Carnival has been led by a college drop-out and RCI by a Wharton School of Business graduate during this time.

 

Doc

 

 

Doc... that was a brilliant post, very insightful and concise...

I bookmarked it.

Thanks.

[Nunu]

As long as a cruise ship has food, a bar, nice rooms and ports to visit I could care less about anything else. It just doesn't have any impact on our enjoyment.

[63Corvette]

My first cruise was less than 2 years ago, and then went on another one this year. I was surprised by how much we did get as part of the price. I think that it is the best bang for the buck of any vacation that I have ever taken. Had I known, I would have been going on cruises for the past 20 years (like many of you).

[libbyonthelabel]

My first cruise was less than 2 years ago, and then went on another one this year. I was surprised by how much we did get as part of the price. I think that it is the best bang for the buck of any vacation that I have ever taken. Had I known, I would have been going on cruises for the past 20 years (like many of you).

 

 

No kidding, all the wasted money other places....UGH!

My friend convinced me to go on one, and I was very unsure. (also less than 2 years ago) I convinced my husband who was more unsure than me. It has turned into the only way to vacation for our family of four.

Now I have cruised much more than my friend and by the end of the year, it will be even more.