Craps Players Step Inside!

[Casino Player]

Hi Paddy Anne,

 

I too am a novice learning this game and have gained good insight from these boards. Another good tool I've used is the practice area of bodog dot com. An excellent play money area to get a feel for the game at your own pace.

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO bankerlkd: For you and the other novices learning to play this game: An aquaintance of mine once gave me advice. He said go slow,and stay within yourself. It is not necessary to take outsized risks if you don't feel comfortable doing so.

I know a high roller who bets $100 on the Pass Line or a Come bet. He doesn't take odds until a point is made. Then he takes single odds. After another number hits he takes single odds on that number too. He keeps going this way. When all numbers are covered he ups his odds bets. He tries to play even with the House and he gets plenty of comps.

That way of playing might not be for you, but, he enjoys playing that way and he stays even or better with the House. And an added advantage he gets comps. Remember, stay within yourself and watch your bankroll.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Casino Player

[jetwet1]

I have a question about tipping. Say I put down a $5 pass line bet for myself and a $5 pass line bet for the dealer. A point is established and I take full odds on my pass line bet. Can I also take the dealers tip odds as well? So if the point hits the dealer gets $10 total and I get my bet and odds plus the dealers odds? Is that something that is done or not? I know the dealers are happy to get any tips so I would not think it would be a problem.

 

Yep you can do that, in fact the dealers will love you for doing so, a line bet with odds is far better from their point of view than a hard way bet.

[relin711]

IMO COME bets are a good idea if the table is HOT. They work just the same as the PASS line. However, the downside is it takes one roll to get the number from the COME onto a number, another roll of the number again to win. Take full odds on the COME bet the same as the PASS line. I was playing PASS LINE and at least two COME bets.

 

I changed my play from COME bets on a cold table to just placing numbers because as soon as I had a couple working, the random shooters would 7 out. Also, you lose your base bet on a 7 come out roll, but you get the odds back. So with a couple of COME bets on the table, everyone except me is rooting for a 7 on the come out roll. But as they say, last COME gets some, so you win with a bet in the COME and a 7 is thrown.

 

Since I set the dice, now I only play COME bets when I'm shooting.

 

Huh??? So, on a cold table (when you presumably have been losing), you start placing bets that have worse odds? And this is your "strategy"?

[LSTEFFA]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO bankerlkd: For you and the other novices learning to play this game: An aquaintance of mine once gave me advice. He said go slow,and stay within yourself. It is not necessary to take outsized risks if you don't feel comfortable doing so.

 

I know a high roller who bets $100 on the Pass Line or a Come bet. He doesn't take odds until a point is made. Then he takes single odds. After another number hits he takes single odds on that number too. He keeps going this way. When all numbers are covered he ups his odds bets. He tries to play even with the House and he gets plenty of comps.

 

That way of playing might not be for you, but, he enjoys playing that way and he stays even or better with the House. And an added advantage he gets comps. Remember, stay within yourself and watch your bankroll.

He makes a $100 pass and come bet with NO odds (even money payoff) until the first pass line or come bet hits? THEN he takes odds? :rolleyes: Ouch

[LSTEFFA]

I have a question about tipping. Say I put down a $5 pass line bet for myself and a $5 pass line bet for the dealer. A point is established and I take full odds on my pass line bet. Can I also take the dealers tip odds as well? So if the point hits the dealer gets $10 total and I get my bet and odds plus the dealers odds? Is that something that is done or not? I know the dealers are happy to get any tips so I would not think it would be a problem.

UCFOG...Line bets are a great way to toke the dealer. If a game is a $5 mininum bet you can still bet $1 (or 2-3-4) for the dealers and not be subject to the mininum. Place full odds behind for pass line and the dealers will love you to death.

[cruzincurt]

Huh??? So, on a cold table (when you presumably have been losing), you start placing bets that have worse odds? And this is your "strategy"?

So say I've got about $20 to bet, the table is single odds, casual newbie rollers are 7 out after a few throws. Aside from going on the dark side, what's a better play... $5 Pass line with single odds and a Come bet with single odds, or Pass line with single odds and place the 6 & 8. So two numbers working or three?

 

The house odds aside for these bets, on my last cruise I was more productive on the cold table with the second play with only a few rolls between 7s and left the table ahead each night. When some hot rollers got their turn, I switched back to 2 or 3 Come bets with odds.

[Casino Player]

He makes a $100 pass and come bet with NO odds (even money payoff) until the first pass line or come bet hits? THEN he takes odds? :rolleyes: Ouch

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: Yep, he wants to play even with the House. If the table is cold when he first gets there then he gets somewhat behind. But, not nearly as much as those who take full odds. On top of that, he gets comps.

[relin711]

So say I've got about $20 to bet, the table is single odds, casual newbie rollers are 7 out after a few throws. Aside from going on the dark side, what's a better play... $5 Pass line with single odds and a Come bet with single odds, or Pass line with single odds and place the 6 & 8. So two numbers working or three?

 

The house odds aside for these bets, on my last cruise I was more productive on the cold table with the second play with only a few rolls between 7s and left the table ahead each night. When some hot rollers got their turn, I switched back to 2 or 3 Come bets with odds.

 

Two answers:

 

1) With only $20, you shouldn't be playing at all. You're almost certain to lose it all.

2) if you insist on playing, the better play is $5 pass + odds and $5 come + odds.

 

It is irrelevant that the roller is a newbie. It is also irrelevant how many numbers are covered. What matters is the statistical likelihood that each bet will win.

 

Let me try to explain another way: Why do you place the 6, instead of betting the "Big 6"? Odds.

 

Why do you play the pass/come instead of placing #'s? Odds.

 

Also, to address your question of 2 vs. 3 hands, why do you not split 10's in blackjack? Because it's better to have 1 good hand than 2 not so good hands.

 

 

That being said, I know it's not all math, you try to sense a hot or cold table and bet accordingly. Also, I too don't like newbie rollers. My way of dealing with that is to bet the pass line with odds, THEN NOT BET ANYTHING ELSE until I am more confident in the shooter (i.e. makes a point). You're still making the better statistical bet, but you're not hit too hard by the dreaded "4 numbers and out" situations.

Edited February 4, 2010 by relin711

[relin711]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: Yep, he wants to play even with the House. If the table is cold when he first gets there then he gets somewhat behind. But, not nearly as much as those who take full odds. On top of that, he gets comps.

 

Of course he gets comps. What casino in their right mind would want a stupid gambler to leave?

[sailor_jimc]

UCFOG...Line bets are a great way to toke the dealer. If a game is a $5 mininum bet you can still bet $1 (or 2-3-4) for the dealers and not be subject to the mininum. Place full odds behind for pass line and the dealers will love you to death.

 

 

I don't think you guys understand what he is asking. He is saying that he wants to make the pass line bet for the dealers (which is fine and the dealers will love him for it) and then make the odds bet on that dealer toke but if it pays, he wants the winnings on the odds (giving the dealers only the even money pass bet). I don't think the dealers would be so cool with this. I have never seen it done and the dealers may assume the odds bet is for them also. You go and try to pick it up and there may be "words". Better to do what LSTEFFA suggests and make a less then minimum pass bet and then give them the odds bet also. I tend to alternate between a two way hardway bet (one bet for me and one for the dealers) and the pass line with odds toke depending on if the hardway tokes are paying off.

 

So if you want to give the dealers a $5 tip on a 2x odds table, you can drop $2 on the pass line and then drop the other $3 on the odds (unless the point is 5 or 9 in which case you can either drop the odds bet to $2 or increase it to $4 so the payout is even..) I would want to explain to the crew that you were betting there odds bet for yourself after the fact.

[LSTEFFA]

Of course he gets comps. What casino in their right mind would want a stupid gambler to leave?

Relin....CP's friend is not really that stupid making even money $100 pass line & come bets with NO ODDS until the first hit...he is just blowing a few hundred until the table heats up.:confused:

[Casino Player]

Relin....CP's friend is not really that stupid making even money $100 pass line & come bets with NO ODDS until the first hit...he is just blowing a few hundred until the table heats up.:confused:

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: First, he is not my friend. He is just an aquaintance I know from playing in casinos. We only see each other every now and then in a casino.

Second, he is protecting himself on the downside. Remember, the more you bet the more you have the potential to win. Also, when the shooter loses the house collects it all. However, it is more money at risk. Also keep in mind, house wins more decisions than the players do.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Casino Player

[relin711]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: First, he is not my friend. He is just an aquaintance I know from playing in casinos. We only see each other every now and then in a casino.

 

Second, he is protecting himself on the downside. Remember, the more you bet the more you have the potential to win. Also, when the shooter loses the house collects it all. However, it is more money at risk. Also keep in mind, house wins more decisions than the players do.

 

Seriously, why wouldn't he just bet $50 on pass, and $50 behind? Same amount of money on the table, and he would win more if he hits.

Edited February 5, 2010 by relin711

[LSTEFFA]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: First, he is not my friend. He is just an aquaintance I know from playing in casinos. We only see each other every now and then in a casino.

 

Second, he is protecting himself on the downside. Remember, the more you bet the more you have the potential to win. Also, when the shooter loses the house collects it all. However, it is more money at risk. Also keep in mind, house wins more decisions than the players do.

"The more you bet the more you have potential to win" ??? Would it not make more sense to reduce your pass line/come bet and take true free odds...you would have the POTENTIAL to win a hell of a lot more money.

[bankerlkd]

Casino player - Thanks and I appreciate the comments on not over extending your bankroll - I agree you don't want to risk what you can't afford, and it's a form of entertainment - While you can lay your chips is such fashions to reduce the houses edge - it still exists.

 

 

 

 

All that said generally how much do you usually have for your session bankroll? no need for cash disclosure , I'm talking a multiple of your avg bet - ie if I'm playing at $5 passline bets with 2X odds with the occassional come bet or 2 ( with 2X odds) I'm thinking a session bankroll of at least $300 is needed for the ups and downs and to make it an entertaining few hours. So would 50 - 60x your bet size be a good standard?

[F22Smitty]

Another question...

 

If 4 or 10 is the point, what is your strategy? Do you press all your place bets?

[Casino Player]

Seriously, why wouldn't he just bet $50 on pass, and $50 behind? Same amount of money on the table, and he would win more if he hits.

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO relin711: Because then you are only a $50 player in the casino's eyes and would not get as good comps as if you had $100 on the Pass Line/Come betting area.

[Casino Player]

"The more you bet the more you have potential to win" ??? Would it not make more sense to reduce your pass line/come bet and take true free odds...you would have the POTENTIAL to win a hell of a lot more money.

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: You expose yourself to too much risk without getting a good return. When a seven is rolled when a point number is already established you lose your odds bets too. You also don't qualify for as good a comps since you are only rated as a $50 player instead of a $100 dollar player. This much I know.

Why my aquaintence makes those bets I have no idea. I will ask when I see him next, but, who knows when that will be?

[bankerlkd]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO relin711: Because then you are only a $50 player in the casino's eyes and would not get as good comps as if you had $100 on the Pass Line/Come betting area.

 

 

So is the difference in comps that much between a $50 and $100 player to make up for the $ he leaves on the table not taking the true odds ?

[Casino Player]

Casino player - Thanks and I appreciate the comments on not over extending your bankroll - I agree you don't want to risk what you can't afford, and it's a form of entertainment - While you can lay your chips is such fashions to reduce the houses edge - it still exists.

 

 

 

 

All that said generally how much do you usually have for your session bankroll? no need for cash disclosure , I'm talking a multiple of your avg bet - ie if I'm playing at $5 passline bets with 2X odds with the occassional come bet or 2 ( with 2X odds) I'm thinking a session bankroll of at least $300 is needed for the ups and downs and to make it an entertaining few hours. So would 50 - 60x your bet size be a good standard?

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO bankerlkd: For each person the bankroll and how much he could afford is different. The House always has the edge, it is the nature of the game. A player could only change the nature of the game by beating mathimatical odds. It can be done. The key is to do it on a consistant basis. If I found that way I'd be the greatest craps player.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Casino Player

[Casino Player]

So is the difference in comps that much between a $50 and $100 player to make up for the $ he leaves on the table not taking the true odds ?

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO bankerlkd: I don't know. All I know for sure is the way he plays. What I told you is how I view it from my point of view.

A key thing to remember is as another player told me once: "you could push the House, but, you can't push your friends." In my case it would be aquaintences.

[Casino Player]

Another question...

 

If 4 or 10 is the point, what is your strategy? Do you press all your place bets?

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO F22Smitty: The only place bets you should make is the six and eight. To place the 4,5,9,and 10 give the House too much of an edge. You would buy the four and/or ten. As far as the five and nine are concerned, make a Come bet and hope it is a five or nine. If not take odds on whatever number was rolled.

On pressing bets, I don't press bets often. If the bet hits a few times then I will gently raise the amount bet on it. Remember, increments of $6 dollars on the six and eight. Keep in mind, on any roll the most combinations are for the number seven. There are more ways to make seven than any other number.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Casino Player

[highflyingrealtor]

does anyone offer any thought of if and when you take down your place bets? say you're playing the 6 & 8 - if one hits once or twice, take it down and be happy? or, you put it there for a reason - so leave it there till it gets taken? that 7's gonna come sometime, right?

[cruzincurt]

does anyone offer any thought of if and when you take down your place bets? say you're playing the 6 & 8 - if one hits once or twice, take it down and be happy? or, you put it there for a reason - so leave it there till it gets taken? that 7's gonna come sometime, right?

I'd leave them up, now you're betting with the house's money once you've gotten your bet back. I've seen rolls last two throws, others 45 minutes. The last roll has no connection to the next roll.

[jetwet1]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO LSTEFFA: You expose yourself to too much risk without getting a good return. When a seven is rolled when a point number is already established you lose your odds bets too. You also don't qualify for as good a comps since you are only rated as a $50 player instead of a $100 dollar player. This much I know.

 

Why my aquaintence makes those bets I have no idea. I will ask when I see him next, but, who knows when that will be?

 

What ? It get's the same rating, the majority of places including all the cruise ships I have been on rate you for your line bet and 1x odds.

 

So is the difference in comps that much between a $50 and $100 player to make up for the $ he leaves on the table not taking the true odds ?

 

Ok, let's start with this, play for $$$$ not for comps, chasing comps will cost you big time.

 

For what it's worth, it makes very little difference in the great scheme of things whether you bet $100 or $50, your talking about maybe $1 difference in the comp value.