Closed Loop Cruises has been updated

[bobsfamily]

It's not only "not just a website", it is the actual law as promulgated by DHS and the Department of State.

 

I'll be carrying a copy of the applicable CFR regulation with me if some jerk feels like pulling my chain.

 

The other funny thing about all of these stories - I'm still waiting to hear of an actual detainment or problem. All I am reading are threats from low level, poorly trained law enforcement employees. There is nothing unusual about that issue . . .

 

If you are scared by an empty threat from a bottom of the rung CBP employee, then by all means get a passport.

As I stated, these are GOVERNMENT employees (which unfortunately we may all be soon) and that says enough. Why are you so adamant about not getting a passport?

[Cruise, J.D.]

As I stated, these are GOVERNMENT employees (which unfortunately we may all be soon) and that says enough. Why are you so adamant about not getting a passport?

 

Because I don't need one yet. :) Who knows, maybe I'll get the distinction of being the first US citizen unlawfully detained under the WHTI :eek: I can get my BIL (government litigation attorney) some business.

 

I'm sure I will get one eventually, but not this year.

[jkss000]

I dont agree with getting a passport simply out of fear of an uneducated customs agent. The closed loop policy is new, ta's, and cruise lines are typically advising or suggesting passports as if they are required. They are not. I called and spoke with an agent at the passport 800 number online, I also have read countless government websites which state the closed loop is a legal exemption. If your motive is fear, perhaps going out of country isnt a good idea as a schmuck agent could detain you with or without a passport, for one of many reasons or for things in your possession etc etc. If you have a concern about health problems, or bringing children, etc, then a passport would be highly suggested so you can FLY back to the states if needed. My second complaint prior to me stepping off my podium, is the view shared by some that, if you can afford to cruise you can afford to X. X being buy a passport, tip, excursion, airline etc etc. I assume those that hold this view live in lostland USA as those of us in major cities near major ports know we can cruise on a 3 or 4 day for less than the cost of a couple of passports, not all of us are rich, or choose to spend "thousands" as I have seen stated here. thousands...LOL

[cherylandtk]

In theory I agree with your statement BUT do you really want to spend time in the "back room" being inspected carefully while the supervisor tells you about "rules"... and on the phone with some senators office who most likely will tell you that you DO need a passport because they have never read the State departments website?

 

Just get a passport and be done with it.

No I don't want to spend time in the back room, and I already do have a passport. But sometimes one has to stand up for certain principles; for me it's in this case where I know the regulation in great detail and this government employee apparently does not. We all pick our own battles, and this may not be yours, but as I said, this is one I would pick. (It probably helps that I actually do have the Senator's office on speed dial, but that is only because a neighbor and long time friend works on his staff.;))

[bobsfamily]

No I don't want to spend time in the back room, and I already do have a passport. But sometimes one has to stand up for certain principles; for me it's in this case where I know the regulation in great detail and this government employee apparently does not. We all pick our own battles, and this may not be yours, but as I said, this is one I would pick. (It probably helps that I actually do have the Senator's office on speed dial, but that is only because a neighbor and long time friend works on his staff.;))

 

I believe in many battles but not this one... unless I did not have a passport. Since I do - well no fight. Same as you.

[Stircrzy]

I have my passport...on my 2nd one, actually...but:

 

my brother and girlfriend are sailing with us in late October. We sail out of Galveston and back into Galveston on a 4 nighter to Cozumel. They do not have passports, and will probably never need them again (they are not paying for their trip, it's a gift to our Dad that we all sail one time together), so I am torn about insisting that they get the passports. They could use the extra cash for their onboard expenses, minimal though they will be.

 

What to do?!?

[bobsfamily]

I have my passport...on my 2nd one, actually...but:

 

my brother and girlfriend are sailing with us in late October. We sail out of Galveston and back into Galveston on a 4 nighter to Cozumel. They do not have passports, and will probably never need them again (they are not paying for their trip, it's a gift to our Dad that we all sail one time together), so I am torn about insisting that they get the passports. They could use the extra cash for their onboard expenses, minimal though they will be.

 

What to do?!?

It is legal as of now and most likely then... never know with the government. If they are never going to go to Canada/Mexico/the Caribbean/Europe/anywhere outside the US then I would suggest using their birth certificates. Be aware that any travel other than the closed loops cruises outside the US now requires a passport. You might want them to know they may have some comments coming back into the US.

 

Go have a good time!

[Stircrzy]

Thanks for your reply.

 

These two will most likely never leave US soil again...and wouldn't be going this time if it wasn't something special for our Dad.

 

I'm going to show them the US Customs and Border Protection website section on closed loops and let them decide whether to pony up the money or not.

[bobsfamily]

Thanks for your reply.

 

These two will most likely never leave US soil again...

Never is a slippery word... ask anyone who has had a "significant other"... lol

[cherylandtk]

Stircrzy, good choice. I too suggest that you just give them the facts; they can travel on just BC/ID, but if they had to fly back to the US from one of the ports for some reason, they would have to have passports. Let THEM make the decision based on complete information and that way you are not on the hook for 'spending the money when it was not needed' NOR 'we needed passports to fly home'.

[DragonMouse]

It sounds like there are some agents that may still be a "little" confused about the requirements. HOWEVER...If you are "diverted" (ie hurricane or breakdown), if you get "sick" or "injured", if you miss the boat at port...you will no longer be under the "protection" of the ship...you'll be at the "mercy" of these "grumpy" agents. In some cases even the most "merciful" of agents won't be able to do anything for you should you have to fly home.

 

My vote if you're going someplace where you can't rent a car and drive home. Get a full passport. Quit trying to "outwit" it with all the loopholes. Those loopholes will be closed sooner or later. And you'll be fighting 10 million other people who need theirs.

 

This will be the first cruise for myself and son (hubby went on one a LONG time ago). I'm actually kinda excited about having a passport...silly yes...but it makes me feel a little more "worldly".

 

I'm a little baffled about some of the cruise veterens who "stress" themselves out as to whether they need it or not. A first time passport is about equals out to about $10 a YEAR...(yeah you pay it up front...but break it down...it really seems like a ridiculous fight for leaving the country) most people fork out about $2500-3000 total on a cruise, excursions, drinks, souvineers etc...a renewal passport is about $7.50 a year...less than one drink of the day. If you are CERTIAN you will never need to fly...go for the passport card $4.50 a year or $2.00 renewal

 

Who knows...one day you may get picked to be on "Survivor"...you'll need a passport to get to the island.

[startraveler]

I have my passport...on my 2nd one, actually...but:

 

my brother and girlfriend are sailing with us in late October. We sail out of Galveston and back into Galveston on a 4 nighter to Cozumel. They do not have passports, and will probably never need them again (they are not paying for their trip, it's a gift to our Dad that we all sail one time together), so I am torn about insisting that they get the passports. They could use the extra cash for their onboard expenses, minimal though they will be.

 

What to do?!?

 

Keep in mind that the passport book is good for more than traveling. If you need ID for an employer to verify; if you need to renew your driver's license; or if you need a form of ID just to enter and visit a school (as I often have to do in my line of work), a passport is good for all that. -Especially for us people here in NJ who need ID adding up to six points in order to renew a license!-

[Slimpickins]

Keep in mind that the passport book is good for more than traveling. If you need ID for an employer to verify; if you need to renew your driver's license; or if you need a form of ID just to enter and visit a school (as I often have to do in my line of work), a passport is good for all that. -Especially for us people here in NJ who need ID adding up to six points in order to renew a license!-

 

Here in KY, I walk into the driver license place, give them my old DL. Hand the $25 or whatever it is. They take my picture, and 1-2 mins later I have my new DL. NJ has to be one of the craziest place to live with all its wacky rules.

[bobsfamily]

Here in KY, I walk into the driver license place, give them my old DL. Hand the $25 or whatever it is. They take my picture, and 1-2 mins later I have my new DL. NJ has to be one of the craziest place to live with all its wacky rules.

In SC I do it online.... and this is SOUTH Carolina. Wow we are so backward... LMAO

[startraveler]

Here in KY, I walk into the driver license place, give them my old DL. Hand the $25 or whatever it is. They take my picture, and 1-2 mins later I have my new DL. NJ has to be one of the craziest place to live with all its wacky rules.

 

Not to continue off-topic, but I had to change my address on my license. What did I have to do? -Make a phone call.- That's it. No verification (although, understandably, they send you a sticker to place on the back of your license, and they send it to the address you give them.) I could have given them a vacant lot with a mailbox on it, or any address whatsoever.

 

(And I think the six points of ID was a result of 9/11. Not to mention that 1)within recent memory, I knew of someone who didn't have a photo on their driver's license and 2)NJ turned down the "smart card" license waaaayyy before WHTI, when Whitman was governor I think. It would have had a chip and may also have been able to function as a debit card in addition to a license.)

[mrgrill]

The following was copied and pasted from the Homeland Security web site.

 

I think it is important to note that even though you are on a closed loop cruise, a passport may still be required when visiting other ports on the trip.

 

More importantly, if you needed to fly home for an emergency a passport port would be required. Also if you missed an embarkation and wanted to fly to the next port a passport would be required.

 

I was also informed by my travel agent the the passport cards are good for the cruise but not for air travel.

 

Regards,

Mike

 

Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative

 

Get e-mail updates when this information changes

The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) requires all citizens of the United States, Canada, Mexico, and Bermuda to have a passport or other accepted document that establishes the bearer’s identity and nationality to enter or depart the United States from within the Western Hemisphere.

The travel document requirements make up the departments of State and Homeland Security’s Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative. This change in travel document requirements is the result of recommendations made by the 9/11 Commission, which Congress subsequently passed into law in the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004.

This travel initiative is being implemented in two phases:

• Air travel requirements went into effect January 23, 2007 and now all travelers including children must present a passport or secure travel document when entering the United States by air.
  
• Land/Sea requirements are transitioning toward standard and consistent documents for all travelers entering the country with full implementation on June 1, 2009.
  

Land and Sea Documents

 

WHTI requires travelers to present a passport or other approved secure document denoting citizenship and identity for all land and sea travel into the United States. WHTI establishes document requirements for travelers entering the United States who were previously exempt, including citizens of the U.S., Canada and Bermuda. These document requirements are effective June 1, 2009.

Most travelers will require one of the following documents:

• U.S. citizens: A passport issued by the U.S. Government, a passport card, a valid trusted traveler program card (FAST, NEXUS, or SENTRI), an enhanced driver’s license (EDL), a Military ID with official travel orders, or a U.S. Merchant Mariner Document.
  
• Canadian citizens: A passport issued by the Government of Canada, a valid trusted traveler program card (FAST, NEXUS, or SENTRI), or an EDL.
  U.S. and Canadian children under the age of 16 will be able to present a birth certificate or other proof of citizenship. See the CBP website for more information about children traveling with a school or religious group, social organization, or sports team.
  
• Bermudians: A passport issued by the Government of Bermuda or the United Kingdom.
  
• Mexican citizens: Mexican citizens, including children, are currently required to present a passport with visa or a laser visa border crossing card, and therefore there is little to no expectation of change under these new requirements.
   
  

Special Audiences / Issues

 

• Native Americans. The Indian and North Affairs Canada Card and Tribal Enrollment Cards with a photo affixed to the card will be accepted until June 1, 2009. We expect that, in order to be designated as WHTI-compliant, many Native American tribes will have to enhance their tribal enrollment and identification cards. Members of the Kickapoo Band of Texas and Tribe of Oklahoma are permitted to present the Form I-872 American Indian Card in lieu of a passport, as they do currently.
  
• Children. U.S. and Canadian children under the age of 16 will be able to present the original or copy of their birth certificates, or other proof of citizenship such as a naturalization certificate or citizenship card. Groups of U.S. and Canadian children ages 16 through 18, when traveling with a school or religious group, social organization, or sports team will be able to enter under adult supervision with originals or copies of their birth certificates or other proof of citizenship.
  
• Lost Passport. For lost or stolen passports while traveling overseas, report it immediately to the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate. You will need to fill out form DS-64, Statement regarding a Lost or Stolen Passport. For information on obtaining a U.S. Passport, visit www.travel.state.gov or call 1-877-487-2778.
  
• First Responders. WHTI does not prevent U.S. Customs and Border Protection from continuing to allow first responders and patients having a medical emergency to enter the country using existing waiver and parole authorities to provide necessary expedited processing on a case-by-case basis for these individuals.
  
• U.S. Territory Travelers. U.S. territories are considered a part of the United States. U.S. citizens returning directly from a U.S. territory are not considered to have left the country and do not need to present a passport. U.S. territories include the following: Guam, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Swains Island and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands.
  
• No Documents. You will be delayed as U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers attempt to verify your citizenship and identity.
  

Traveling by Sea

 

Cruises

 

U.S. citizens on closed-loop cruises (cruises that begin and end at the same port in the U.S.) will be able to enter or depart the country with proof of citizenship, such as a birth certificate and government-issued photo ID. A U.S. citizen under the age of 16 will be able to present either an original or a copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad issued by Department of State, or a Certificate of Naturalization issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

Please be aware that you may still be required to present a passport when you dock at a foreign port, depending on the islands or countries that your cruise ship is visiting. Check with your cruise line to ensure you have the appropriate documents for the stops you’ll be making on your cruise.

Ferries and Small Boats

 

All individuals traveling by ferry and small boats are subject to the new requirements. Boaters who have an I-68 form (similar to a vehicle registration) must follow the new travel document requirements. Having either a NEXUS card or a passport will enable I-68 holders to continue to utilize telephonic clearance procedures.

Commercial / Charter Vessels

 

As long as a commercial or charter vessel does not call at a foreign port, immigration law does not consider this a “departure” from the United States and therefore upon return, is not considered an entry that would require a passport. Therefore, passports or other designated documents would not be required for those, including commercial fishermen traveling on a vessel that sails from a U.S. port and returns without calling at a foreign port.

 

More About Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative

 

• Read the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative Notice of Proposed Rulemaking
  
• Current U.S. border crossing procedures and information
  

[JordanLovesCruisin]

Not to be rude, but I don't see what the big deal is with having to have a pass port?

[cuted126]

Not to be rude, but I don't see what the big deal is with having to have a pass port?

 

Me either. I just don't get why this is a debate.

 

I mean,we are all adults here,and if one decides to have one,then great. If one decides not to,then great. That's their personal choice,no one can change that but them.

[bobsfamily]

Not to be rude, but I don't see what the big deal is with having to have a pass port?

 

Most of the thread is about IF you need one. The BIG DEAL is if something happens on a closed loop cruise. If you fly/drive to a destination outside the US you are required to have a passport (or pass card for Canada/Mexico). The only way you can leave the US right now without a passport is on a closed loop cruise. If you miss the ship/are removed/get sick/accident in another country you will most likely be able to get back to the US but not to another country (to catch the ship). You will be hassled getting back in and it may take a while. So if going on a CLOSED loop cruise and you have no problems the most that is going to happen is some customs agent is going to hassle you about your BC/photo ID and will tell you that this time it's OK but next time you need to have a passport. Your choice...

[CruiserBren]

With the question, do I have to get a passport? No, not on a closed loop cruise. The son of a friend was on a cruise to Cozumel and spent too much time at "Carlos'n Charlie's". He and his friends waved goodbye to the ship as it left port. Did they need a passport for the cruise? No, but they needed one to get back into the US since they had to fly!

 

So while it's not required, if there is a problem, you do need one to get back home.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

With the question, do I have to get a passport? No, not on a closed loop cruise. The son of a friend was on a cruise to Cozumel and spent too much time at "Carlos'n Charlie's". He and his friends waved goodbye to the ship as it left port. Did they need a passport for the cruise? No, but they needed one to get back into the US since they had to fly!

 

So while it's not required, if there is a problem, you do need one to get back home.

 

so how long did they have to stay in Cozumel before they could fly home and at what cost?

 

Bill

[CruiserBren]

It was almost 2 weeks with them in hotels and the parents making phone calls to the State Dep't to verify that they had PP on the ship. For the $100 it would have cost for each of them to get a PP, this cost over $5000 by the end.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

It was almost 2 weeks with them in hotels and the parents making phone calls to the State Dep't to verify that they had PP on the ship. For the $100 it would have cost for each of them to get a PP, this cost over $5000 by the end.

 

Thanks for the reply. I'm a bit confused though.

 

You say the parents were call the State dept. to verify that they had passports on the ship. Then you also say for the $100 it would have cost them to get a passport. So not understanding if they had passports or not.

 

In the end whether they did or didn't it didn't do them any good if in fact they were on the ship in the safe.

 

Bill

[CruiserBren]

Sorry, there were 3 ppl involved. The son of my friends had a PP (it was on the ship, in the safe), the others did not. All 3 parents were working together to get the 3 young adults (age 23/24) out of Cozumel.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Sorry, there were 3 ppl involved. The son of my friends had a PP (it was on the ship, in the safe), the others did not. All 3 parents were working together to get the 3 young adults (age 23/24) out of Cozumel.

 

OK thanks. Very expensive lesson.

 

I do the same thing though minus the drinking. Leave the passport in the safe.

 

I need to rethink this course of action.:)

 

Bill