DCL have switched from 6 page Navigator's to 2 page

So I read on one of Scott's posts that DCL have stopped issuing a 6 page Navigator (apart from embark day), and for the rest of the cruise it is 2 pages, 1 sheet.

My first thought was another cost cutting exercise, but I guess the with the take up on using the smartphone/tablet app, maybe not as many Guests need them or use them.

There is a sample here of the new layout:

http://disneycruiselineblog.com/2016/09/personal-navigators-7-night-eastern-caribbean-halloween-cruise-port-canaveral-september-10-2016/

I also quickly calculated an approximate number of Navigators they print each year.

Magic class: 875 SR x 365 = 319,375 x 2 = 638,750

Dream class: 1250 SR x 365 = 456,250 x 2 = 912,500

Total navigators = 1,551,250!

At 6 pages = 9,307,500 full color pages....

Thats a lot of paper and a whole load of printer ink/toner!

So i can see why they would want to reduce their paper usage and ink costs, and a big saving for the environment, even if they can halve that amount.

What are other people's thoughts?

ex techie

Where did you see 6 page Navigators? The ones we typically receive were 4 pages--one large piece of paper folded. Of course there were often a stack of adverts delivered along with the Navigators. On CC day, there was a map of the island with the island schedule, so I guess that is officially 6 pages.

The link made a comment about dinner menus not being on the Navigators--they have never been there on our cruises. They are on the app and we would go to the restaurant and look at them.

What do I think? They can keep the ads for spa specials, gift shop specials, and all the other crap that I send right to the circular file. That would save a ton of paper. I like the Navigator (the 4 page version). That's the info I need and care about. And I like it in printed form. If they don't want to print a million pages, don't give it out in the staterooms. Place holders around the ship where the people who want one can take it. Those who prefer the app wouldn't need to throw away the one from their stateroom!

Where did you see 6 page Navigators? The ones we typically receive were 4 pages--one large piece of paper folded.

Here is one I've seen:

http://disneycruiselineblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Personal-Navigators-Wonder-14N-EBPC-Day-2-At-Sea-20160827.pdf

ex techie

I agree, half the paper that shows up every day is an ad for something. Personally I think they kill,a lot of trees putting info on paper which should instead be on monitors or the TV.

OK, you are right that this is one with an insert sheet...and I have seen some of those. I've also seen them with 4 pages. Bottom line, I want the necessary info in print. I don't care about the "fluff." They can leave out all the "Highlights" pages--that info is contained elsewhere. For instance, in your example the movies are featured twice (once as highlights, once with the ship's directory.)

I suppose the directory doesn't need to be printed every day....

I agree, half the paper that shows up every day is an ad for something. Personally I think they kill,a lot of trees putting info on paper which should instead be on monitors or the TV.

The two page, 1 sheet Nav's are pretty concise and spa specials etc are very limited to just a small box from the example I've seen.

I agree on the Dream class with the interactive TV's, they could utilize them instead of printing that information.

My only fear is that if sales of specials slip it will lead to an increase of page revenue in the Nav's, or more announcements from the CD pushing them. And that would suck!

ex techie

OK' date=' you are right that this is one with an insert sheet...and I have seen some of those. I've also seen them with 4 pages. Bottom line, I want the necessary info in print. I don't care about the "fluff." They can leave out all the "Highlights" pages--that info is contained elsewhere. For instance, in your example the movies are featured twice (once as highlights, once with the ship's directory.)

 

I suppose the directory doesn't need to be printed every day....[/quote']

 

I agree about the spa and specials, but as per my post above I hope more page space isn't give up or more announcements if sales slide as a result.

 

Having places around the ship to pick up printed Nav's is a great idea. It would be trial and error knowing how many to print at first, but I guess they could work out an optimum number over the course of a few months.

 

ex techie

...

 

The link made a comment about dinner menus not being on the Navigators--they have never been there on our cruises. They are on the app and we would go to the restaurant and look at them.

 

...

I think what was being referred to was the little block of information (usually in the upper right of the first page of the Navigator) that specifies what the menus are going to be in the different dining rooms. It also lists the drink of the day and the weather. That information was also repeated on the pull out section of the "old" Navigator on the back of the grid page in a little block in the upper right. But it's no longer there in the new format.

I think what was being referred to was the little block of information (usually in the upper right of the first page of the Navigator) that specifies what the menus are going to be in the different dining rooms. It also lists the drink of the day and the weather. That information was also repeated on the pull out section of the "old" Navigator on the back of the grid page in a little block in the upper right. But it's no longer there in the new format.

Like with most things DCL roll out, they are a bit rough around the edges at first, and over time they refine them and modify them.

I think the problem stems from shipboard or shoreside CM's looking at things purely from an "ship operational" point of view, and not from a Guests, and that is a major failure point for a company run by Disney.

Unless shoreside higher up's and other parts of the company are involved, there is no Guest surveying or focus groups. They cost major $$$ if they get involved.

I'm sure over time they will get the right mix of information.

For me personally, the 2 page Nav and the app would be fine, but I can see those without smartphones, or those not wishing to use them being frustrated.

ex techie

I think what was being referred to was the little block of information (usually in the upper right of the first page of the Navigator) that specifies what the menus are going to be in the different dining rooms. It also lists the drink of the day and the weather. That information was also repeated on the pull out section of the "old" Navigator on the back of the grid page in a little block in the upper right. But it's no longer there in the new format.

You mean the section that used to list the meal (Breakfast, for instance) and then the locations and hours where that meal would be served? I think that is very important information, especially for those who are not used to the DCL system.

Some of the information is boilerplate and repeated day after day. Maybe a single sheet front and back with dining times and places, etc. And other pertinent info that is given at check in, and then a single sheet once a day with the daily info on it. Stuff like movies and shows and such should just be on the TV and monitors around the ship.

Some of the information is boilerplate and repeated day after day. Maybe a single sheet front and back with dining times and places, etc. And other pertinent info that is given at check in, and then a single sheet once a day with the daily info on it. Stuff like movies and shows and such should just be on the TV and monitors around the ship.

That information is on the new 2 page, 1 sheet Nav.

Activities on page one, dining and venue hours on page 2?

http://disneycruiselineblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Personal-Navigators-Fantasy-7N-Eastern-Day-5-St-Thomas-St-John-20160914.pdf

ex techie

You mean the section that used to list the meal (Breakfast' date=' for instance) and then the locations and hours where that meal would be served? I think that is very important information, especially for those who are not used to the DCL system.[/quote']

 

No. I messed up what I said. The section at the bottom of the first page in the full Navigator used to list (the name) of the menu being served in the MDRs that night. As well as the Drink of the Day. And the weather was in the upper right corner of that same page, with the docking info (if any).

 

Then, on the insert (one side was the grid and the other side had the hours of the various locations). The side with the hours had a small box in the upper right again listing the name of the menu, drink of the day, and the weather. It's my understanding that the current new 2 page navigator no longer has that box.

Got it--you mean the part that says "Prince and Princess Night," as opposed to a menu listing what is being served.

Got it--you mean the part that says "Prince and Princess Night' date='" as opposed to a menu listing what is being served.[/quote']

 

Yes.

There is plenty of space in the header section (with a little formatting) to incorporate the menu of the evening, and they could also repeat it in the dining section under Dinner.

Let's face it, the drink of the day is really unimportant!

ex techie

 

Let's face it, the drink of the day is really unimportant!

 

ex techie

Besides, it seems to be listed everywhere--elevator frames, etc.

most of the information i need is on that one page...

but there are times i could use some of the more in depth descriptions that are provided on the longer navigators..

for example, if i see "ultimate quest" on the schedule without an explanation, will i know whether i want to go or not?

well, i might, since i'm not new to cruising, but someone who is?

and if you say there will be an explanation on the app - that's insufficient...

there are some people who are technology challenged and will be unable to find that information - in fact there are still people with dumb phones (my mom falls into the non-smartphone person, my sister into the tech challenged)..

An organization that I attend decided a couple of years ago to change their communications to a weekly "e-news" and a quarterly "magazine" (which is boring!) Of course they have a web site. This was all decided by the rather young staff.

The problem is that almost no one of any age reads the e-news (there is nothing of value in it), and almost no one over 40 chooses to learn how to navigate around the web site. Communication was far better when a weekly newsletter was placed in the US Mail, and was better when it was announced that the mailings were being discontinued due to cost but could be obtained at the front desk.

Electronic communication misses a significant portion of the target audience!

On the ship, this means it will miss older people who can't or don't choose to figure out how to download or use the app. Some of these people will have older model phones that won't allow the app (our phones don't get lost or damaged and we generally don't feel the need to replace them "just because." It will also miss those who choose to not carry their smartphone while on the ship--to go "off the grid," as well as those who look up something on their phone once and decide that the app is so bad that it is more trouble than it is worth.

On our last cruise, my 20 something deemed the app to be "stupid" and "poorly done." Or maybe that was 2 cruises ago and she can't be convinced to try it again.

Sorry, minimizing print info in favor of electronic communication just reduces communication overall! Eliminate the trash papers. Make the important stuff available for pick up at GS by those who want it. Trees/cost saved without sacrificing info.

I completely disagree that no one over 40 chooses to use a web site. Considering probably half of the people on Cruise Critic fit that demographic... If you said over 70 who haven't been using the Internet for the past 25 years, I might agree.

That said, I do agree that many haven't got a clue how to even out their phone into airplane mode, so an app might not be the best bet. But things like movie schedules should just be on the TV. For crying out loud, if a small line like Windstar can do it, DCL should be able to. (And that was when Windstar only had three ships with a combined capacity including crew smaller than the crew number alone on the Magic!)

I am looking at the single sheet from Windstar, it has the following:

Day and date.

Port name and arrival/all aboard time

Port agent info

yacht mobile #

Today's highlights (this was six bullet points that included a special performance, local market visit with chef, and a reminder to be up to see the sail in to Kotor which is amazing)

It also had a bunch of other "filler" including the wines of the day (it was a sponsored wine cruise, so this was required) and hours of the lounges which were exactly the same every day.

Disney could do something like this, and then fill the back with the schedule of activities that do change day-to-day.

I don't see the point of printing the weather, I do think they need to print the dress code, not that it is followed or enforced...

I also think they should use the CCTV system they already have in place for the majority of info. They could install touch screen kiosks (like the directories in many malls) by each elevator bank as well.

An organization that I attend decided a couple of years ago to change their communications to a weekly "e-news" and a quarterly "magazine" (which is boring!) Of course they have a web site. This was all decided by the rather young staff.

 

The problem is that almost no one of any age reads the e-news (there is nothing of value in it)' date=' and almost no one over 40 chooses to learn how to navigate around the web site. Communication was far better when a weekly newsletter was placed in the US Mail, and was better when it was announced that the mailings were being discontinued due to cost but could be obtained at the front desk.

 

Electronic communication misses a significant portion of the target audience!

 

On the ship, this means it will miss older people who can't or don't choose to figure out how to download or use the app. Some of these people will have older model phones that won't allow the app (our phones don't get lost or damaged and we generally don't feel the need to replace them "just because." It will also miss those who choose to not carry their smartphone while on the ship--to go "off the grid," as well as those who look up something on their phone once and decide that the app is so bad that it is more trouble than it is worth.

 

On our last cruise, my 20 something deemed the app to be "stupid" and "poorly done." Or maybe that was 2 cruises ago and she can't be convinced to try it again.

 

Sorry, minimizing print info in favor of electronic communication just reduces communication overall! Eliminate the trash papers. Make the important stuff available for pick up at GS by those who want it. Trees/cost saved without sacrificing info.[/quote']

 

DD didn't use the app on her sept 3 cruise as she said it was a mess...completely jumbled - difficult to find what you're looking for...

so she didn't use it at all...she depended on the traditional paper navigator (and she's a 31 year old, tech-savvy person...)

I emailed DCL to query this as disabled (visually) and therefore the app is really awkward unless I take my tablet with me (which I tend not to). I asked about accessible version of the app for phones and whether there was a way to request the detailed information as, like others have mentioned, sometimes just the name of the activity isn't enough for me to decide whether to go or not. With the paper version I carry a magnifier so I can easily read it but it doesn't work with a phone I have to keep zooming in and its just not very easy to read.

Anyway DCL came back to say this is just a trial so if anyone has an opinion I would share with DCL. Whether they listen or not I don't know and I would have appreciated an answer on whether an accessible app is going to be released but we shall see. Luckily I'm not cruising til next year so hopefully they will have either decided to stick with it (and have an alternative fingers crossed) or decided to change back to the old way.

Oh and I agree - I would class myself as a 36 year old who's tech savy and that app really is hard to navigate even if I had the vision to read it properly on a phone!

We used the app on our summer Alaska cruise, there is defiantly a learning curve to it. I think part of the issue is trying to design 1 app that works for both Android and Apple.

The bigger issue going forward is the current version of Android (5.1 Lollipop) will auto disconnect from wifi without internet access unless the manufacture changes the settings. So, DCL will have more people not using the app because their phones will not stay connected. It was a giant PIA to stop all of my apps from trying to update so the free 50mb package would last a few days.

It is a known issue by the developers and the Connect at Sea people.

We used the app on our summer Alaska cruise, there is defiantly a learning curve to it. I think part of the issue is trying to design 1 app that works for both Android and Apple.

 

The bigger issue going forward is the current version of Android (5.1 Lollipop) will auto disconnect from wifi without internet access unless the manufacture changes the settings. So, DCL will have more people not using the app because their phones will not stay connected. It was a giant PIA to stop all of my apps from trying to update so the free 50mb package would last a few days.

 

It is a known issue by the developers and the Connect at Sea people.

Google Play has a setting that allows you to turn off auto update of apps.

But you also have to turn off Facebook, Twitter, email syncing ext. 50mb is a very very small amount of data.

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