SLSD

39 minutes ago, JMB56 said:

First of all, please do not think of jeans as something that are primarily worn by Americans. I visited Selfridges on Oxford Street this morning, and I dare say more than half of the clientele I encountered were wearing jeans (elegant or not). That’s both men and women. Many of the saleswomen hawking perfume in the store’s centre hall were wearing jeans, God forbid

 

I only bought items from the Selfredges Food Hall.  I did purchase a pair of jeans this morning; they are black, slim-fitting and, in my mind, rather elegant-looking. However, I must admit that I purchased them at that shop across Baker Street from Selfredges, a place called Marks & Spencer. I doubt Mr L has ever set foot in the place, but I can only assume his billfold is a bit thicker than mine.

 

I shall travel on Seabourn for the first time next month to Antarctica.  My question is: Will my £26, slim-fitting M&S jeans be appropriate for daywear, or should I send off for a pair of £120 Patagonia jeans (both pictured)?  BTW, to reassure others, I plan to wear proper woolen trousers in the main dining room during the evening, along with a tweed sport coat.  I assume a tie will not be required as it is an expedition cruise, although I shall obviously be wearing a dress shirt.

 

Please accept this post in the spirit in which it was written!

 😄

40 minutes ago, JMB56 said:

First of all, please do not think of jeans as something that are primarily worn by Americans. I visited Selfridges on Oxford Street this morning, and I dare say more than half of the clientele I encountered were wearing jeans (elegant or not). That’s both men and women. Many of the saleswomen hawking perfume in the store’s centre hall were wearing jeans, God forbid

 

I only bought items from the Selfredges Food Hall.  I did purchase a pair of jeans this morning; they are black, slim-fitting and, in my mind, rather elegant-looking. However, I must admit that I purchased them at that shop across Baker Street from Selfredges, a place called Marks & Spencer. I doubt Mr L has ever set foot in the place, but I can only assume his billfold is a bit thicker than mine.

 

I shall travel on Seabourn for the first time next month to Antarctica.  My question is: Will my £26, slim-fitting M&S jeans be appropriate for daywear, or should I send off for a pair of £120 Patagonia jeans (both pictured)?  BTW, to reassure others, I plan to wear proper woolen trousers in the main dining room during the evening, along with a tweed sport coat.  I assume a tie will not be required as it is an expedition cruise, although I shall obviously be wearing a dress shirt.

 

Please accept this post in the spirit in which it was written!

 😄

JMB56--Go with the Mark and Spencer jeans as they look more authentic.  While they are not Wranglers, they appear to be the next best thing.  (All said in jest of course). 

14 minutes ago, Tallante said:

Well said Julie. I just find it amusing that there are people who have time to post these articles.  

  I am vacationing in Santa Fe and wrote the original post while lounging on our patio here. Mr. SLSD and I are taking a well deserved rest after experiencing grave illness within our family.  Please be careful when you make a comment like yours as you have NO idea of the circumstances of others. One never knows why someone has time... I enjoy this group and like to contribute a bit of humor now and again.  I think we all need that.  

3 hours ago, kjbacon said:

I very much appreciate the humor here and we could all be open to the other guy’s interpretations of things … be it humor or elegance. There is no one and only way.

You are right.  We all interpret things differently.  There may be perfectly acceptable modes of dress that others think are elegant and charming that I don't like.  That means I have to be a bit tolerant. The same goes with what we choose to post.   We have different personalities which affect how we choose to dress and what we write about.  I'm glad you appreciate the humor I tried to inject here. 

2 hours ago, frantic36 said:

 

I am like Astride I like to dress elegantly in the evening and also no longer care how others dress. But if you want to discuss this topic again which causes disagreement go ahead. I would understand if was a question  by someone new to Seabourn looking for insight but I have no care what Esquire thinks, now if it was Vogue I might have more interest.🙂

 

But for now I will do as you suggest and ignore the whole topic.

Esquire is a magazine primarily for men so I am not surprised it doesn't interest you. Chris Black, the author of the essay I posted writes well and is entertaining.  There are many threads I never read because they don't interest me.  I just scroll by as cruiseej suggests,  instead of telling the poster that I am not interested in what they write.  As I said above, my thread was meant to be a bit of levity.  Some people got that and some did not.  I also wanted to thank Markham for his saggy baggy comments because I used his comments to persuade my husband to buy a new pair of jeans.  The fact that my husband met Markham on an earlier cruise contributed to his decision to pay attention to Markham's comment.  So there you have it.  I will not apologize for starting this thread.  Sheesh...

46 minutes ago, lincslady said:

IMO the truth is that jeans can look elegant on an elegant person - otherwise, not.

You may be right.  It's too bad that we can't all be elegant.  I mean that sincerely.  

7 hours ago, mieu said:

We love dining out, but don’t evaluate a

fine dining experience based upon the inclusion of updated modern menus. Rather, we’re impressed with dishes that are conceptually sound and creative, utilize stellar ingredients, and are executed with expertise and finesse. We live close to the Napa Valley in CA, and are very familiar with the cuisine and dining experiences offered by Thomas Keller’s French Laundry, Bouchon, and Ad Hoc. While Seabourn’s TKG isn’t 100% perfect, we much prefer it over Keller’s Napa Valley restaurants.

Perhaps suggesting a preference for a modern menu is only a way of asking for some lighter, rather than heavier fare.  And yes, creative offerings made with stellar ingredients would be part of that.  

6 hours ago, frantic36 said:

I know you mean well but I think most of us don't want to have further discussions about clothing. Because it never stays light hearted.

I think some are just not able to discern what is light hearted and what is not.  The article in Esquire set the tone.  The whole idea of trying to decide what constitutes elegant jeans makes me laugh.  

4 hours ago, Astride said:

Who the hell cares? I always dress elegantly for dinner & I don't care what anyone else does.

This was just a light hearted thread---inspired by the article from Esquire.  There had been discussion in the last year about what constitutes elegant jeans.  The article disparages designer jeans and extolls basic Wrangler jeans.   

I do think it is time to move on from what Thomas Keller thinks is special cuisine.  We are vacationing in Santa Fe New Mexico at the moment and have had some truly wonderful food.  Of course cruise ship dining is more akin to hotel catering than what a restaurant (which serves maybe 100 people per night) can provide, but I have been wowed by some Mediterranean cuisine here.  I have been so impressed that I am still thinking about it several days later and making additional reservations.  We're talking about pasta  made fresh that evening and fish and meat dishes that made me swoon.  I experienced nothing like that last summer on Ovation.  We are not expecting Seabourn to match small restaurant pinnacles of perfection, but we do expect updated  modern menus and care in preparation.  

6 hours ago, markham said:

SLSD, I have indeed met Mr SLSD and never did it cross my mind to consider his dress sense. He is -or was then- slim and tall, and he whatever he wore was good daytime wear. I expect you would have it no other way!

 

The offenders who come to mind in past years (especially the Antarctic cruise this year on Quest) were somethin’ else. The guy with the open toed sandals he wore all the time on board with the teal painted toe nails, ancient, droopy and baggy jeans and chinos and flannel shirts, and his ample wife in tee shirts with no foundations set the standard for no standards. Maybe they brought nothing with them and live out of a single wheelie or backpack? Who knows, who cares.

 

So what to make of that? Maybe nothing if he were the only one. But it is safe to say that for some of the mix the days of casual elegance I remember from Seabourn ships is largely gone with the new mix. And yes, that would include the characters hollering across the Observation Bar at one another, as if they were in Senor Frogs during frat house Easter Spring break. You’ve seen them too, for sure.

 

Yep…. I have moved on. The convergence of nostalgia for ole Seabourn and my own age/disposition makes the prospect of encountering these cartoon characters on Seabourn something to avoid. I guess it’s now “Their Moment”, as the latest bumph says. But for my money and time it’s just no longer gonna be my moment.

Happy and healthy sailing!

 

I totally understand Markham.  I remember your original posts about your so called Grand Cruise on the Quest.  I shuddered.  I considered that experience to be an insult to those of you who had trusted Seabourn to provide you with the experience you had paid for.  I don't blame you one bit for moving on.  On our cruise last June with Seabourn, we were met if not with the best food I've had on a Seabourn cruise, the best service.  And, maybe it was just my changing palette that wasn't wowed by the food as others were pleased (including Mr. SLSD).  We did have some stragglers who didn't seem to care what they wore or how they presented themselves.  I chalked it up to our changing society and what some might claim is rugged individualism and the determination to do it their way.  

I do consider some of Mr. SLSD's jeans to be a bit saggy and baggy.  It's fine if he wears those at our East Texas farm, but I don't consider them appropriate for a cruise, so I was happy to insist that he get a new pair of slim dark indigo jeans. And I will admit to using your saggy baggy description to bolster my insistence that he purchase an appropriate pair of jeans for the trip.  I recognize that denim  is not common casual wear in London for peope our age or even in the countryside in the UK.  Different cultures.  We're going to try the Wrangler styles extolled in the Esquire article and see what we think.  

We still haven't made the leap to Silversea (even though it was our firsr cruiseline) as I find the posters in their facebook group to be bordering on insufferable. I also remember finding Silversea's idea of musical entertainment to be laughable.  We'll see what next year brings.  

39 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

@SLSD  Well, just to properly frame the issue,  jeans — of any fit, color or type — are and have always been acceptable for daytime touring and excursions. That could include baggy jeans (ugh!), acid-washed jeans, etc. The only issue which has been discussed and debated is whether they can/should be worn in the evening, and if so, what defines jeans which qualify as "elegant".  The Esquire article you cited focuses on the opposite of baggy jeans for men: jeans which make the, um, posterior look good. (Both the slim-cut Patagonia ones you make Mr. SLSD purchase and the Wrangler ones described in the article seem to meet that criterion.) Whether that alone is sufficient to meet the "elegant" standard is open to interpretation. And then there's the separate but equal question of what makes women's jeans "elegant". 🤣

 

And here's something interesting: I just went to check the Seabourn website to make sure I used the correct terminology when mentioning the dress code. The Frequently Asked Questions section has two identical listings for the dress code, and both appear to have the language from the old dress code: "Jeans are welcome in all dining venues during the day, but not appropriate in The Restaurant after 6pm." Which directly contradicts the revised dress code they announced at the end of 2022, in which they said "Elegant jeans are now welcome in all dining venues." With all the website issues Seabourn has, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that 9 months after revising the dress code, they still haven't updated their website! 🤣

 

P.S. Thanks for starting this tread; it feels like we've gone many weeks without a dress code discussion. 🤣

 

(Emojis above denote that all is said in good fun.)

I started this thread as a light hearted topic (so thank you for recognizing that) , responding to Mr. SLSD's aha moment that the jeans he loves are not saggy/baggy.   I say if they are--then they must not be the right size!

There have been SOME posters who have posited that jeans just don't belong on a cruise--and why bring them.  They point out that they are heavy and  say that they take up too much space in luggage.  They overlook the fact that jeans are a staple of everyday wear for many Americans and we don't travel many places without them.  I hope everyone will read the Esquire article--published today.  

I was aware that Seabourn has not updated their dress code everywhere.  This just speaks to some sloppiness by the line.  I would expect a luxury line to be top notch in every way---including their online presence.  

Just a further comment to say that Mr. SLSD was not standing in a precarious spot here--even though it may look like it.  He was just standing on a large rock in a safe place.  And, Mr. SLSD would never wear jeans to dinner in The Restaurant.  

This post is mostly for Americans, because I think those of you in the UK will never understand (and why should you?).  My good friend Markham has made an impression on this Texan with his comments about saggy baggy jeans on older men.  I absolutely would not let Mr. SLSD bring his cowboy jeans on our last Seabourn cruise.  I shamed him into buying a pair of slim cut Patagonia jeans (dark wash of course) to wear on excursions last summer in Norway.  He looked great in them.  I have a photo to prove it--and I'll find it and post it here in a bit.  

Just now, he sent me this article from Esquire (magazine) as proof that I don't know what I am talking about when it comes to jeans.  I said, go ahead and buy (another pair) of Wrangler jeans and take them on our Seabourn cruise next summer.  After all, who am I to dispute what the men's fashion critics of Esquire have to say?

Now, before all you jeans critics have a fit, you need to realize that denim jeans are an accepted uniform for men (and probably for women) in the US---for better or worse.  Mr. SLSD has on a pair of Wranglers (too faded for Seabourn) right now and is looking pretty good!  

https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a45629186/wrangler-cowboy-cut-jeans-review/?fbclid=IwAR3tP4u8EYTeHKclHNHpf4-ZPIr4G_S0Fbnl7WB668TEPeOsfUGH9HOu21Y

8 hours ago, jondfk said:

So, a coda, regarding this voyage.  A couple weeks following our sailing our SB booking rep contacted us to ask how the voyage had gone, we expressed our disappointment at the limited operation of the restaurant.  She challenged me to list dates it was closed, instead I gave her the much shorter listed of opening days.  She expressed her understanding that the Restaurant should have been open for all breakfasts and the vast majority of lunches (which is what we experienced on Ovation in June) she quoted from internal correspondence which simply didn’t match our experience.  We were directed towards guest relationships via email.

 

Two weeks passed before a response arrived which included a statement confirming our experience did not meet SB expectations, though no explanation for why was offered.  We were offered a total of $1500 towards a future voyage though the time offered was short, sailing within 12 months.  While we appreciate the gesture we are unlikely to take advantage, there are simply too many other options to risk another disappointment so soon.
 

We may, itinerary and price considered, sail SB again in the future but will likely try SS in addition to our upcoming Viking Oceans voyage before looking this direction again.

 

Jon

Jon, I am beginning to think that the opening and/or closure of the Restaurant at breakfast and/or lunch is left up to the staff onboard each ship.  I still remember being told (as I think you were?) that the Restaurant was going to be open ACROSS the FLEET at both breakfast and lunch each day.  Others were told the same and we experienced that on our mutual Ovation cruise last June.  I don't blame you for being disappointed.  Of course I am always soundly criticized here for preferring to dine at breakfast in the Restaurant (lunch on some days as well).  The message you received back from SB seems to imply that they EXPECTED the Restaurant to be open for these meals--or else they were not being honest with you--and just saying empty words.  

I have no interest in table side preparation.  It's all theater and does nothing for the enjoyment of our meal.  I know some people feel differently about this.  Also, Mr. SLSD and I seldom order the same entree, so dishes for two won't work for us.  Dishes for two seem to harken back to a time when men ordered for their wives.  Mr. SLSD used to TRY to do that for me--as he had seen his father do it.  No thank you.  

3 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Also prefer the large bottles.   The study cited is from 2011 and was about hand soap in public rest rooms in elementary schools.

I noticed that.  Hand soap in a public restroom is very different from bottles of shampoo, condition and soap in a ship suite or hotel room.  And I avoid the public restrooms on the ship if at all possible.  

6 hours ago, SDuckers said:

And I don't care for Indian food at all.  If the specialty restaurant was 100% Indian cuisine, I doubt I would ever go there.  I also have always skipped the "Indian Market" nights in the Colonnade.  

 

This is the inherent danger in having the specialty restaurant specialize in only one cuisine.

We are the same.  We have never gone to the Indian night and would not go to an Indian specialty restaurant.  I might go, but my husband does not like Indian food at all.  

14 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

When we were on Quest in May/June it was full both times we dined there. We really did enjoy our experience -  food and service. 

Yes, as I said above, the grill on Sojourn was always full--probably because it is so small and staffing/kitchen output was not an issue as it might be for the much much larger grill restaurants on Ovation an Sojourn--and now with the added outdoor capacity. It is my hope that they will be able to fully staff the restaurant and that the kitchen will have the output capacity to serve a full restaurant with the added outdoor space.  I hope the kitchen has adequate capacity to do that.  I guess we will see.  I look forward to trying the new restaurant next July/August!

6 hours ago, arzz said:

Sorry folks for asking - I found the app in the App Store and have successfully downloaded it. Why didn't they just say that?

I was just coming back to tell you that that is exactly what we did.  The rest of it is fairly intuitive.  It worked ok for us last summer and we have another cruise coming up and I already have it going for that.  

6 hours ago, arzz said:

Desire help from those wise and experienced Seabourn cruisers on this website.  We are cruising for the first time since covid in a few weeks.  Yesterday we got an email from Seabourn "Your cruise is coming up" - one of the buttons in the email is to learn more about the Seabourn App - but when I press the button all I get is the regular seaboard website via internet - no app and cannot find info on the app.  What am I missing here?  We are iPhone users if that is relevant  

I can't remember how I downloaded the app now so I am not of much help--but not ignoring your question.  I'll try to figure it out and come back--unless someone answers your question sooner.  

5 minutes ago, Ovener said:

Hope the outdoor tables will finally be used on Ovation and Encore now to increase capacity. If so, what is the Quantum of Solis?

After a number of cruises on  Seabourn ships, I got the impression that the numbers in the TK Grill were limited not by capacity but due to staffing--and perhaps kitchen output ability.  I could be wrong about that, but that is what it looked like to me as the Grill always had empty tables on the larger ships.  When we sailed on Sojourn, the grill was mostly fully populated.  

12 hours ago, claranda said:

We have tolerated TK over the years, mainly as a change of venue. Solis looks as if it will be an interesting alternative, especially the fish, although the ‘meat’ section, with its two steaks and plain chicken (at least on the sample menu) is boring. Where is the lamb, the pork, the game? Are these not eaten in the US?

Of course they are eaten in the US.  Many of our favorite restaurants in our city serve all three--on the same menu.  

1 hour ago, BasandSyb said:

No. But apparently Mac N Cheese used to qualify as fine dining (tongue firmly in cheek 😇)

 

My husband can cook and we can source a better steak than we ever had in TKG and I can cook a better roast chicken - neither of which we ever seek out at restaurants nor on cruises. I’m sure the new menu will continue to reveal itself - fingers crossed. Lamb remains one of the better offerings on the ship. My husband is a two lamb chops and poached egg guy for breakfast and SB does them perfectly. We also love pork and game. Swordfish is a favourite - glad to see that, we enjoy it for lunch freshly grilled on other lines but rarely available on SB.

 

At the end of the day, we will eat most things but are choosy in what we rate and aren’t swayed by celebrity chefs or hype.

 

 

I agree with you about lamb on Seabourn ships--we've had some wonderful lamb entrees. 

I know you are kidding about macaroni and cheese being fine dining.  Of course it is not.  But what it IS is a typical side dish offered at good American steak houses.  Would I ever order it at an American steakhouse?  No, I would not.  Have I tasted it at the TK Grill, yes I have and it was well done.  I know people from the UK were aghast that it was being served, perhaps not understanding that it is usually offered at American steak houses--even high end ones.   The same with the ice cream sundaes.  Yes, it is a very simple easy dessert to make, but it is a classic dessert usually offered at American steak houses.  And this is what the TK Grill is--an American steak house.  

Do we frequent steak houses in the United States?  Not very often--perhaps once every five years.  They are popular for business dinners and that sort of thing.  

1 hour ago, cruiseej said:

 

It's not a matter of being "offered" a returning customer discount; it's just a matter of which cruises Seabourn has designated as eligible for Seabourn Club savings. And that's actually pretty clear… if you know what to look for on the website. 😉  Just click on "Special Offers" in the top menu bar…

 

 

 

 

Clicking that link takes you to the Offers page, which has the current main promotion at the top (currently, the "Set Sail" promotion), and includes Seabourn Club Savings below:

 

 

Click on "Book Now" and the resulting web page will show all the cruises which currently offer the Seabourn Club Savings 5% discount. It's usually not a large number of cruises; right now, it's 31:

 

 

Alternatively, if you're browsing cruises on the website without being logged into your account, when you click on pricing for a cruise, you can look for a "Log in to view special pricing", which tells you there is at least one promotion applying to the cruise you're looking at. 

 

 

Or… simply reach out to your travel agent with help finding/sorting through any available discounts on cruises you might be interested in.

 

– – –

 

Travel agents which regularly work with Seabourn also occasionally have access to unadvertised special prices offered to TAs which are not available via the website. (Example: we just booked a short 7-day Caribbean get-away for this winter which shows a price of $8,898 for a V3 suite on the website. We had a Future Cruise Deposit, so that was good for a 5% savings, or $8,453. But our price was $6,532, about a 22% additional discount. And this is not a cruise eligible for the 5% Seabourn Club discount. This doesn't happen all the time, of course, but we jumped because our TA had a pretty long list of Seabourn cruises eligible for unpublished discounts.)

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this.  I think the issue is that we seldom look at the website since it has been difficult to navigate.  

2 hours ago, lisa6191 said:

I think there are 3 potential discounts:

1) 5% for booking onboard (or 20% if it’s an expedition)

2) 5% from a future cruise deposit

3) 5% “returning customer” discount, which I believe is actually referred to by Seabourn as a Seabourn club benefit (and you have to have sailed to be in the club, thus it becomes a benefit for returning customers). I actually just went on the website to check, and if you click on special offers it comes up there, and then if you click on “book now” it brings up a list of 31 sailings that it applies to. It is unclear whether this one is combinable, but I was told that 1 and 2 are combinable for the ocean voyages.

We have NEVER been offered the returning customer discount and we have cruised with SB quite a bit.  I guess we've never been interested in their less popular cruises that it applies to.  All of this is unclear.  I actually believe that "offers" are somewhat of a racket.