CNSJ

They may be too focused on the EDGE class ships..... At least HAL keeps up the older ships IMHO.

As OP: I want to clarify one comment I made about breakfast upcharges. That bullet was specific to room service. All lunch and dinner room service had a charge. Also, they did not serves deserts (Sahara, Mobi, etc.) they served desserts!

Wanted to compare Celebrity and HAL. We have sailed Holland America (HAL) and Royal Caribbean (RCI) over the past 15 years, with 80% of our trips on HAL. Stopped sailing with RCI after what DW described as "Inedible Food" in the Windjammer Buffet. Since COVID ended, we have sailed Transatlantic on EURODAM (FALL 2021), West Carib on ROTTERDAM(WINTER 2022), Alaska on NOORDAM (SUMMER 2022), Transpacific on WESTERDAM (FALL 2022), and Southern Carib on ROTTERDAM (DEC 2022). That’s a good mix of HAL ship classes and ages. We normally sail in a V or VA but have on occasion taken the upsell to a suite. Having heard so much great things about CELEBRITY (X), on this forum, we decided to give them a try, with the post-COVID standard in our mind. Granted we selected a short 5 day cruise (fit schedule nicely), on one of their older ships (about same age as Noordam) and not a long journey, but hoped to get a feel for their service, food, and approach to cruising. Sailed last week on CELEBRITY SUMMIT. These are my observations, and yes we entered with an open mind. We found a few things we liked, and too many things we did not to want to book again. CABIN: We had a deluxe verandah on X (7111) which was not in Concierge or Aqua class. That meant we could not use their exclusive restaurants Luminae or Blu (did eat in Tuscan Grill). Cabin seemed smaller by about 10% and the balcony was noticeably smaller. Bathroom was good, but shower was much smaller than we have had on HAL. CABIN Issues: - Thick sticky dust on some light fixtures, bathroom fan, vent, and on upper shelves - Mold in shower corners - Bad rust on balcony and window coated with salt - Queen bed did not have a strip that helps minimize the two twin gap. - Bed was not made up as well as we are used to, mattress pad untucked etc. - Mini-Bar was warm, called maintenance to have them change it out (didn't stockers notice this???) - One light burned out - No varnished wood balcony railing…fake wood product of some kind. - In Cabin TV movie choices were much less than HAL as was Live TV Channels SHIP CONDITION: I have posted before that a safe, well maintained ship matters to me. (I spent 26 years in the Navy on Submarines). I have never seen anywhere near the amount of dirt, rust, corrosion, pitting of surfaces, dirty glass, and other indications of poor maintenance. On HAL cruises I see maintenance people all the time working on the ship exterior. Saw one or two and I am out and about a lot. Makes me wonder if safety equipment such as lifeboats is being maintained properly. SHIP DESIGN: - Fewer elevators per person than on HAL ships. - I am a deck walker. This class of ship NOT set up to walk. Promenade only extends 70% on each side. No wrap. The deck 11 “jogging path” is short – 9 laps+ per mile and a mix or runners and walkers, with deck chairs at edge of red painted area. - Access to Deck 12 Rooftop Lounge was terrible. Very steep ladders from Deck 10 aft or an exterior lift for wheelchairs (we didn't need this lift). CREW: Crew did not have same professional polish that we are used to. Wide range of home nations here. They were friendly, but a great deal of joking around with each other. Service at the Pool was almost non-existent, and they did not come by often to clean up drink cups etc. PUBLIC AREAS: Focus was on very loud music. I could hear the Deck 10 pool band and music from my balcony on Deck 7 very clearly. It was so loud we could not sit near pool on Deck 10 or 11. No area to read, play cards, or do anything else that wasn't loud. Exception was indoor pool (Solarium) – Too shallow to swim as it's a big warm tub, but no area around it with tables. GOOD: More hot tubs. But more kids in them. OCEANVIEW CAFÉ (BUFFET): - Large number of stations, but only at breakfast and lunch. They shut more than half down at dinner. - Tables were not set up with dinnerware, napkins, and cups. You had to get your own. - On HAL, we usually had a server come by within a minute of being seated to offer us water, tea, etc. on X we had to get our own after five-ten min of nothing. - GOOD THING is they have to go cups for coffee. - BAD THING is the coffee was bitter in the MDR. - Food quality in Buffet was on par with HAL at lunch and breakfast, but you serve yourself on everything but some deserts, which seemed odd in a post COVID world. - Dinner food (from the stations open) had few entrees to pick from, too many things laden in sauce or gravy. No carvery. Not same food as MDR. - GOOD: Much better ice-cream shop than HAL. - Outside dining area aft of the Oceanview too small and people camped out there all day as some chairs were really lounge chairs not dining. MAIN DINING: Service and food here on par with HAL. One good thing is that the MDR is quieter as they have carved out part of the MDR for Blueu and Luninae restaurants. Our waiter was Indonesian, and did a great job. Coffee in MDR was not great. CAFÉ BACIAO (Coffee Shop): Coffee more bitter than same experience with HAL. Smaller sizes of cups and if you order a pastry (including Black Forest Cake) it was given to you in a paper sleeve with a small wooden ice-cream spoon. They don't want you to take a plate to your cabin. TUSCAN GRILLE: Prices higher than Pinnacle ($40 for lunch) . NOT A HIGH-END EXPERIENCE. We had lunch on a sea day. Slow to take orders, and then they mixed up entrees and sides. DW had Prime Rib that was small and about 1/3 inch thick at best. My Filet was about 3 oz and very good. One Entrée was Crab and Mac/Cheese. We ordered this as an extra entrée to share – to find out it was small for a side dish, let alone an entrée. Desert order also mixed up and the coffee was same as the MDR Coffee (I asked waiter and he said same coffee). OTHER: - No small tables mixed with loungers on pool and sun decks. Drinks go on the deck. - Anything but most basic breakfast items (pastry, fruit, coffee) was an upcharge. All lunch and dinner (menu for room service poor selection) was a charge. Perhaps we had a bad pull of the straw with SUMMIT. It seems that CELEBRITY may be focusing on their exclusive restaurants (BLU, LUMINAE) and Retreat areas, but we booked a standard cabin. The average age on board was probably 40. Loud music in most public spaces. Granted there was more entertainment, but some of it was not very good. Not ready to try them again for a while.

I believe (if I recall) we booked our open dining about four months in advance. It opened up after the specialty dining opened but well before cruise. Again, things change all the time. Right now I can't advance book any dining on my OCT 2023 sailing in Europe.

Three cruises in past six months. Last one in December. Was able to pre-book on all. Then again I pre-booked a while in advance.

I have found that I am best off booking MDR when it opens for booking in advance online. I get my table for 2 with no wait. Depending on post schedule and my desire for specialty restaurants on special nights - I select a time between 5:30 and 6:30 PM. It just works. Walk right past the long walk up line. I always cancel a reservation by 4:40 PM if we choose to eat in the lido, so they table can be reassigned right away. MDR Service has been good. Yes its a 80-90 min meal, but then again its served in courses and that includes coffee with dessert! For those who want extra entree portions, just ask....they will happily bring you two!

Too bad we can't eat all our meals like they are our last. Learned from a Cancer survivor to live every day like it is your last.

A wonderful selection. The cardiologists of the world will thank you! 😀

The big dish of scrambled eggs is more likely to be Frozen Liquid Whole eggs. They come in cartons or large boil in bags. You can ask them to scramble up fresh eggs, the same ones they use for fried eggs. Even on our 36 day transpacific in OCT-NOV 2022 they had fresh eggs the whole trip.

CruiserBruce---On my last few cruises if you have the have it all package, the three letters are HIA. It may say SBP when you just buy the drink package alone.

We were on the Westerdam along with seniorjim, as he stated, ship was great. Service was also great. Our only compliant was that there was a bit too much Chicken being served, which we assumed was a supply chain issue. Beef plentiful in the Pinnacle..... I feel the Vista ships are the best for passenger to public space ratio. Of course the transpacific sailing was only about 75% full.

Crossed the Pacific on Westerdam in Oct-Nov of 2022. Captain indicated during a Captain's Call Talk in MainStage that during the long COVID pause that the ship's hull became very fouled and that speed was greatly reduced. He said before starting Alaskan service that the ship was dry-docked and hull blasted and cleaned. Speed was back up so she could meet speed requirements. I don't know what else was done, but I thought the ship was in great shape.

Here is a link: https://www.hollandamerica.com/en_US/deals/community-appreciation-cruise-offers.html

Can confirm from my Rotterdam trip in December 2022 that the juices at Gelato are included in HIA. They have great Fresh Squeezed OJ.

Thank you Lissie- Yup, end of civilization. I'm ok with a collared shirt and dress pants (yes socks) - on most dinners and a standard suit on dressier nights. Do I need the tux, or just a dark suit and tie (yes socks) ?

This could be a game changer for me. So.....If I read the Cunard forum will I read about the dress code being changed and how horrible it is?

Am looking at Cunard. Just hate the idea of having to put on a Jacket and tie for dinner (less formal nights). I am on vacation.....

Had service twice a day on last three cruises in 2022, but we put our service please sign when we needed it (after swimming mid day showers etc.). Cabin was spotless.

Agree that HAL can do more. I am willing to pay 10-20% more for experts and a cultural immersion. Not sure who else may be. My original point on clean, safe, and service is that other lines don't have same level of service... and that as Netherlands registered ships, they are safe. Having spent a few decades in the Nav, I believe that Hal's maintenance is better than I have seen on other lines.

Mary- Your point on focusing on Travelers seems to be spot on. We travel to see places, eat foods, and meet people. Learn about other cultures. I think that diverse itineraries are the key. That can help HAL differentiate themselves from other cruise lines. Perhaps it means a smaller HAL. We shall see. I think the market is big enough for 10-11 ships. The "exotic/unique" itineraries like Voyage of the Vikings tend to sell out quickly......

I (we) just reached 4 star Mariner on last cruise, so to many of you I am still a HAL newbie, but I thought I might comment on the non-stop bashing of Holland America. Yes, things change over time. Even in the short ten years we have been regular cruisers, I have seen change. Some good, some not so good. My DW and I just retired and are around 60. While little things like chocolates every night, slippers (most of us don't wear), and a well dressed man ringing dinner chimes may be important to many, I try to focus on the things that are most important (at least to me). In these areas I think HAL has done very well, and continues to do well. I try to keep in mind that the cruise industry just went through the once in a hundred years' shock with COVID. I am confident that HAL does surveys and just just cut things willy nilly. For those that complain about a charge for a second entree in the Pinnacle, I ask....What would your favorite restaurant at home do if you asked for two steaks? Don't charge me more for my cruise because you want two appetizers and two nice steaks at dinner. To me, clean, safe ships with great service are the reasons I have sailed with HAL on 10 of my last 13 cruises. I have sailed on R-class, Vista Class, Signature, Pinnacle Class. Each has benefits over the others depending on what you are looking for. I think Signature is the best overall due to the Promenade being more walkable. Otherwise Pinnacle class wins hands down. I'll focus on what's gotten better in the past ten years for a minute (at least in my opinion): Much better Stateroom TV with on demand movies, interactive info, menus, and access to your account. Pinnacle class ships with many more dining options and better venues for music events. Room service still included for breakfast and most times (and you can order off MDR menu) - Celebrity and others charge for Room Service now all day. The Navigator app - Love it or hate it... its better than not having an App A slightly younger passenger demographic is a good thing. Great ship's officers that still interact with passengers. Hal is more eco-friendly (less plastic and paper) Great itineraries continue (and 2024 looks great in this area) Onboard credit for shareholders and military/first responders Cruises are still a great value. I was in South Florida recently and looked at my restaurant receipts for lousy meals, including the "mandatory 20% gratuities added to all checks...." I was shocked to see what I was paying before and after cruise. I want to focus again on CLEAN, SAFE ships and GREAT SERVICE. We did two Royal Caribbean Cruises mixed in our first five HAL cruises - all on similar sized ships (Jewel of the Seas) to HALs ships. Cruise prices for a Balcony Cabin are similar in most cases based on my review. My DW would rather not cruise than go on Royal Caribbean again. The passenger to public space areas on HAL always feels better. Just my two cents..... I am very Happy with HAL. Nothing is perfect, but CLEAN, SAFE SHIPS with GREAT SERVICE is what matters to us. Keep Cruising. See you out there in 2023!

I have exclusively booked Open Seating with HAL on ten cruises over the past eight years. I book a table each night in advance (before sailing) when possible for around 5:30-6:00 PM. While I could book the early fixed dining (we book cruises well in advance) - Using Open Seating allows me to adjust the reservation based on port departure times. I'll book a later table when we are in port until early evening or later. I have never had to wait for a table as a result. We don't always get the same table, but when I get a waiter I particularly enjoy, I ask to be seated at same table for the next night. I always be sure to cancel my reservation at least an hour before if for some reason we will dine in Lido or in the room.

You can also combine several FCDs to vastly reduce any deposit required. Its always good to have a few FCDs in your back pocket. Better to book onboard of course!

Yes....We do pay for it, its not complimentary! Will be 4 star after this trip. No more HIA. Discounts on fancy coffee (for DW) specialty dining, and wine packages make it totally not worth it.....

On Rotterdam today , with HIA Package. Using part of the Shorex Credit for an upcoming stop in Amber Cove to snorkel. That excursion was just cancelled due to forecast weather tomorrow. Options were to book another excursion or simply loose the credit as its non-refundable. So..... I asked, what it this had been the last port and there were no other opportunities. The answer was the credit is non-refundable, not even against your onboard expenses. Even if port visit is cancelled, no compensation. I am sure it's in the fine print.... just passing this on to fellow cruisers. Second time on new Rotterdam. Nice ship.