SeaShark

18 minutes ago, wcook said:

I’m pretty sure NCL could throw passengers overboard in the middle of the ocean and some posters would find a way to defend it. 
 

I’ll only speak for myself here. When I read about the FREE At Sea package and that it included a FREE drinks package, I thought that meant I would get a drinks package and wouldn’t have to pay anything. Maybe I’m stupid, maybe I’m drunk, but I was mislead. The advertising mislead at least one person and I’m guessing a whole lot more. 

"I thought that meant" isn't a defense. Have you even considered that the shortcoming here is an error in your assumption of the meaning? You could have simply reached out to your TA or PCC and asked if your interpretation was correct. Did you bother to do that? The fact that you misunderstood, does not mean that you were mislead.

13 minutes ago, Mrearl said:

No, I did not pay or book yet. The advertisement stated free drink and specialty dining. Then when you look at the final price it states over $600 for drink

gratuities and $50 for specialty dinning gratuities. 

Yeah, and? I'm not seeing an issue.

NCL sells a drink package. It is priced at $109 per day for the package and $21.80 per day for the gratuity/service charge. The free drink package comps you the $109...it is not added to your final price. However, you still have to pay the gratuity/service charge which was clearly not offered as free.

18 hours ago, havoc315 said:

???? Bad faith. By having a discussion on an Internet forum? Only bad faith here, is your bizarre attempt to squash discussion. 

How an I attempting to squash the discussion? By simply participating in it? Simply disagreeing with your particular opinion isn't squashing...it is part of the discussion.

18 hours ago, havoc315 said:

They aren’t well established at all. 
So ok, does 100% of the gratuity charge go to the bartending staff?

You said this is well established. So what’s the answer? 

But you said it was well established, those were your original words...and we were discussing that in reference to the idea that nothing was free. 100% of the gratuity to the bartending staff? I never said anything about gratuity distribution being well established. If you want to veer the topic to the side, you can't insist that I follow you.

18 hours ago, havoc315 said:

It is misleading. It’s known to frequent NCL cruisers… it’s known to the people on this forum.  It is not so clear and known to every person who books a NCL cruise. 
 

I had a friend tell me recently, that if I didn’t book my cruise by the next day, I’d miss out on NCL’s free drinks promotion. 
 

So you’re saying —- since people already know that NCL is misleading, it is misleading to discuss how they are being misleading?!?

 

And I still don’t understand why you care whether people discuss that NCL’s marketing is misleading. Ok, you don’t personally feel it’s misleading. Good for you. What’s your problem with other people discussing they do feel it’s misleading? 

If it is published, but not clear and known to every person who books an NCL cruise, whose fault is that? If you can't be bothered to learn, then you don't have standing to blame others.

I didn't day "people already know that NCL is misleading". That is (once again) you attempting to put words in my mouth to argue against them. Why don't you argue what I actually said instead. You can quote my words, you don't have to play the "so your're saying" game.

Once again, I don't have a problem with people discussing anything...never said I did. I get to discuss too...that is the way it works. Do you have a problem with that?

Oh, and FWIW, you understand that "misleading" and "feel it's misleading" aren't the same, right? Facts trump feelz.

2 hours ago, havoc315 said:

huh? You mean they don’t market “Free at Sea”?

You mean they don’t charge more for it?

You mean, you mean, you mean...no, I don't mean your misleading interpretation, I only mean what I specifically wrote. Your continued confusion over the no cost vs no worry aspect of the marketing shows your continued attempts to promote your bad faith narrative. I'm simply not buying it, but you'll still try to sell it nonetheless.

2 hours ago, havoc315 said:

You blatantly stated “it doesn’t need to point it out”..

and claimed that pointing out well established facts is somehow “misleading”

 

An honest discussion of facts is “misleading” — your bizarre accusation.

I did no such thing. I said pointing out well established facts as though they weren't well established is misleading. I never said an honest discussion of facts is "misleading". 

2 hours ago, havoc315 said:

Lol.  Companies in American jurisdiction have gotten into lots of trouble burying terms in fine print. Under some circumstances, it meets the definition of consumer fraud.  

Shame is that there is no "fine print" here. It's all right there, something you've already admitted that is known and well established. Again..."under some cirucumstances" a phrasing that is misleading as it infers that this circumstance is one of the "some" referred to. Accusation without evidence. Textbook misleading.

1 minute ago, KSSS2013 said:

 

 Why should people have to read?

 

 

They actually don't. That is what is great about it. You can call your PCC or TA and they can explain it all to you verbally. 

No reading required.

37 minutes ago, Liljo22 said:

This is what I never get.  I shop around a lot and I never find Celebrity to have a free drink package.  I am sure it happens but more often its not given free.  If you want to all included package that has drinks and wi-fi, its $1000 more a person for a 14 day cruise.  The OP is more than happy to pay the extra $2k because they don't call it tips but complains about $690 because of how its worded.  SMH

 

Gotta laugh when you look at the above and notice that the "All Included" description even says "Tips charged separately".

Not to mention the marketing aspect of "All Included" vs "All Inclusive".

3 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

NCL is the one trying to create a narrative. 
Yes, lots of companies in their marketing and advertising throw around the word “free” very loosely.  Because they know it’s an appealing word. 
 

And most consumers come to understand it usually just means “included in the base price.”

NCL is taking a couple more steps beyond this — not included in base price at all, but you still have to pay a pretty significant amount. 
Then, a further step — they are calling it “gratuities”— but it does not appear to actually represent gratuities. A gratuity is an optional payment given to staff above their salary. is that what the money is actually being used for? (I don’t know the answer… maybe someone here does know). And as a gratuity is an optional payment, can I opt for FAS but opt out of the gratuity?

 

and on a discussion forum, what’s wrong with discussing it????

How is NCL trying to create a narrative? You make accusations, but provide nothing to support them (this tactic IS, in fact, creating a narrative). You also accuse NCL of not including it in the base price...again, with nothing to support that. Why?

Nothing wrong with discussing on a discussion forum. However, NOBODY said there was something wrong with discussing it. So again, here is an accusation without supporting evidence...you're trying to argue something that was never said. IOW, who even said that there was something wrong with discussing it?

All of the information about the product and its costs are out there and available for guests to review prior to purchase. It isn't misleading on NCL's part if some people don't bother to read and understand the information.

1 minute ago, havoc315 said:

???  So NCL isn’t  misleading in their use of the word free, because nobody should take it seriously to begin with?

But if someone points out that it’s not really free, then they are the misleading person?

 

Depends. It is "free" as in "no cost", or "free" as in "free to enjoy drinks without the worry of a huge bar bill at the end of the cruise"? NCL's moniker is "freestyle" cruising? Does that mean you don't pay for cruises?

Since everyone knows that nothing is "really free", it doesn't need to be pointed out, and yes, those who want to point it out to create a narrative are being misleading.

8 hours ago, havoc315 said:

I’m curious if FAS gratuities actually all go to bar staff and wait staff (doubtful), or it just goes directly into NCL revenue, which pays a set amount to bar staff. 
 

It all really is just a misleading promotion — it’s not “free” at all. In reality, $21 per day probably covers NCL’s actual costs for labor and alcohol. (Their drink cost is less than $2 per drink. So if the average guest has 4 drinks in a day (some more, some less)… that’s about $8 worth of alcohol and $13 towards labor).  
 

But yes, it’s definitely not free. Most cruise lines that don’t give “free” drink packages price their packages between $50 and $100 per day. So at best, can look at NCL’s “free at sea” as a discounted drink package. 

If there is anything misleading it is posts like this that are nothing but word games on the word "free". You want to play the "it's not free at all" card, but you gloss over the fact that you have to purchase an entire cruise to get what you classify as "free". Do you really think anything can be "free" if you have to purchase a cruise to get it?

1 hour ago, UKstages said:

 

generally held principles of customer service would argue that they may not be entitled to compensation, but they are entitled to an explanation. and generally held principles of customer service would argue that they should receive both.

So the only definate here is that "they are entitled to an explanation", and an explanation was given. So what is the problem?

2 minutes ago, CroozeNoob said:

Without an honest explanation, I would be contacting my lawyer, or throwing the captain in the Brigg!

How exactly do we tell which explanation is "honest"?  I'm simply seeing a lot of unsupported speculation here. The linked story cites speed issues in 2005 and 2015 without any indication that those issues are relevant today.

The linked article also states:

The body responsibly for governing Antarctic tourism IAATO brought into effect slower speed restrictions this summer 2023-24, for the protection of migratory whales, but members like NCL had been aware of the change since 2021.

What I don't get is that if the IAATO introduced "slower spped restrictions this summer", how could NCL have been aware of the "this summer" change three years ago? Honestly, did the IAATO do this as reported, or did they do it back in 2021?

28 minutes ago, JGRUSS02 said:

Currently on the Prima (sailed 2/2/24).  We are in 10214 and some have listed this as an obstructive view.  There is the slide just to the left of our balcony.  It does not impact the massive view we have of the ocean. I’ve attached some views.  The deepest point of the balcony is about 10 feet deep and slightly angular.  There is a lounge chair.  We have 3 other chairs and a table.  The balcony is the width a two normal cabins as this is a suite (separate bedroom).  Due to the location of the room the balcony is actually wider than cabin.  I estimate we have 20” of railing on the side of the ship.  Each pane of glass is about 4’ and there are 5 panes. The 6th pane is in a small rectangular area for the slide support column.  If you want to book a suite with a massive balcony you can’t go wrong with this room.

 

 

It has been accepted as fact on CC that the folks staying in balconies near the slides are going to have to put up with the people on the slides screaming all day. 

How are you coping with the screaming?

4 minutes ago, ready2cruzagain said:

I forgot to get more Cruise Next last week when on the Epic! I thought I read somewhere that you had 30 days after you disembark to purchase them. Am I wrong?? If I am then I know where I can get some but wondering if there is a way for me to call NCL and purchase some since I just got off the ship?

https://www.ncl.com/cruisefirst-program

Have you ever seen so much confusion over something so simple?

I hate to bring the two topics together, but it is threads like this that stand as concrete evidence that "experienced cruisers" should not attempt to design cruise ships. 🙄  If you can't understand the order of disembarkation, then you certainly can't advise as to the proper size for an onboard venue. Sorry, not sorry.

1 hour ago, PATRLR said:

 

Umm, that's exactly what I wrote: 

 

You are the one who felt a need to state that it wasn't your job.  

 

Glad we are all in agreement that it isn't your job to respond.  Perhaps your job is just to complain?  You are very good at it.

 

It is what you wrote, but not what you were referring to. And I never said it was my job, I never said it was anyone's job. I only asked a question, I didn't make a statement. Is it your job to fabricate or edit just to argue, cause you aren't good at it at all.

3 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

The part I missed, and I did go back and look for it, was the part where someone tried to make it specifically @SeaShark's job to respond to any post, let alone one requiring "spoon feeding".  

In my experience, these boards work much better if, when one doesn't want to answer a question one simply doesn't answer it, vs replying complaining about the question.  Often times someone doesn't mind answering the question (e.g. @OceanDreaming2 in this thread) so they do and all is well.  But these aren't my boards so if you feel the need to add your complaints, we'll just have to tolerate it.

Actually, the part you missed was where anybody even said it was "specifically" my job...

Keep in mind that I didn't state anything either way, I simply asked two questions.

You shouldn't need to make up things that weren't said just to argue against them. 

8 hours ago, CptJLMcCrea said:

 

And yet, here you are.

 

That is correct...I am here (as are you). I have read the thread, and I understand the issue. However, that doesn't change my statement that it isn't my job to read and summarize the thread for people who won't read it themselves. The fact that I am here and the fact that they aren't being given their summary, only proves my point.

Did you just miss the obvious, or did your "retort" somehow make sense before you typed it?

You're not seeing the logic because you are looking at the viewpoint of one consumer (one cruiser on one sailing of one ship) instead of viewing it from the viewpoint of the company who considers all cruisers on all ships combined as a whole.

IOW, you can't see the forest for the trees.

 - - S I G H - - 

So what is the expectation here? Are we now supposed to summarize and spoon-feed topics to people who don't think it is "worth their time" to read the thread?

It certainly isn't worth MY time to do the work for them.

First issue I see here in the thread is that some have mistakenly equated "priority" with "first" or "early" and that just isn't the case.

The first guests off the ship will be the VIPs (the actual VIPs, not those who paid for special treatment), the Haven guests, and those who require assistance. Then NCL will disembark the guests who are willing to carry off their own luggage. Once all this is done, everyone left onboard will be people who will have left out luggage the night prior. When it is time to start calling these people, "priority disembarkation" will be the first group called.

Priority is nothing more than the first luggage group called. Even then, you still have to wait in line with all of the other priority folks.

1 hour ago, Gemrac9693 said:

We all know they don't have to but I'm talking an overnight stay not 30minutes, in UK we just think it's polite to give reasons 

Interesting. In the US we just think that when you want to ask "why" that you ask the actual party (in this case, NCL) and not random people who a) are not a party to the decision making, and b) have no idea "why"...THAT is the polite thing to do.

3 hours ago, Yesimapirate said:

Thank you for providing my point 

No problem. I'm happy to provide the point, I just wish you would have provided one in your first post.

37 minutes ago, Yesimapirate said:

Finally,  anything posted here tends to get torn apart.

Sure...this is, after all, a discussion forum...not a support group. You can't simply expect everyone to believe in or side with you. Such is the nature of a forum.

OTOH, if people were to place reviews in the review section instead (radical concept warning), then nothing gets torn apart since you cant post replies to reviews.

37 minutes ago, Yesimapirate said:

Legitimate complaints that anyone here would have an issue with quite often are blamed on the poster by many, especially new posters. 

Maybe...just maybe...that is because it IS the fault of the poster. Unrealistic expectations, and lack of understanding of the product, are repeated conditions found with complainers. Travel agents and PCCs will work for you at no additional cost, yet so many complainers shun them and book themselves, only to be upset when faced with the consequences of not understanding what they are doing. The information is out there, I don't know why we have to support those who refuse to use it.

30 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Based upon my experience, this 'big announcement' is a sale.

Nope, not this time. Post #7 hit it on the nose.

1 hour ago, havoc315 said:

While people say they hate “nickel and diming”— customer buying shows the opposite, for exactly that reason. 
Where given the option, plenty of customers will pick the bargain barebones “$299” (airfare, cruise fare, hotel room, whatever) rather than the $429 all-inclusive rate, etc. 

 

If NCL were to become “all inclusive”, the starting prices would be significantly higher. 
 

NCL isn’t Seven Seas. So to some extent, when people complain about the nickel and diming, it’s kind of like complaining that your inside cabin doesn’t have a window. You get what you pay for. That said, I think it’s legitimate to complain about the unending constant barrage of extra charges and upselling. 

Nickle and diming refers to mandatory extra charges, not to options available for purchase at the customer's discretion. For example, if NCL were to tell you at the terminal that there is a $5 charge for your key card (which you HAVE to have), then that would be nickel and diming. 

Society today, whether we like it or not, revolves around the blame shift. Put the blame on someone else, nothing is your own fault.

For many people, saying the cruise line is "nickel and diming" gives them better feelz than having to say "I want something, but can't afford it right now".