ak1004

In any case, it doesn't really matter if I find it acceptable or not, it is what it is. But based on the fact that La Dame was half empty every night (compared to other venues), most guests are not willing to pay extra for dinner on an all inclusive line. And not only they are not likely to change it, but on the new ships they increased the fee from $60 per person to $160, and the older ships are likely to follow. Which basically leaves you with 5 dining venues (I love Pizza, but I don't really consider Pizza a viable option for dinner on a ultra luxury line). Another thing worth mentioning: if you have a reservation to Silver Note and go to another venue before, they automatically cancel the Silver Note reservation (I assume it's the same for other venues too). Now you might ask why would we do it? Well, Silver Note opens at 8pm, and the only time we were able to get a reservation was 9pm. This is way too late for us, so we thought to go to SALT, to have something light, and then to go to Sliver Note, to have some drinks and deserts and listen to the music. Nope. Reservation was automatically cancelled. They did us a favor and let us in, but it was really strange. Just FYI. So to me Silver Note is also not a real option for full dinner. More like a jazz club to have an after-dinner cocktail and/or desert (and deserts there are amazing), assuming you can still get in after having dinner in a different venue. And still there is no buffet, they will know that you had dinner in another venue.

Haha.. and then you can come home and brag to your friends and family that you had your butler bringing you black caviar to your suite every evening! I always felt that butlers are more of a marketing thing than a real benefit, but some people like them.

We also enjoy MDR and specialty restaurants more, but sometimes it's nice to have an option to eat in the buffet. Terrace Cafe has a lot of excellent options, the grill is actually better sometimes than MDR because it's really fresh and hot, and it never feels crowded. You can still order drinks from the waiter. It's always good to have more options. On a 10 nights cruise, we typically eat in Terrace Cafe 2-3 times. Also we come there sometimes after dinner for the deserts..

And yet the comparison topic got 20 likes, so apparently many people did find it helpful.. But yes, most reviews and comparisons will discuss things that are more important to the reviewer and might be less important to some other people, so I really don't understand your comment.. As a side note - we prefer dining rooms over buffets too, but sometimes you don't have a choice. What you have an early excursion and just don't have time to sit in the dining room? What if you get back from excursion late afternoon and dining room is already closed (not to mention that many times it's not even open for lunch on port days)? And just FYI, we usually do both for breakfast and lunch, and most of the time the buffet is pretty busy while the dining room is half empty. So the buffet review might be meaningless to you, but is relevant to a lot of people.

You are right, but it was still mostly buffet for all dishes and deserts, with the meat served by the waiters. Did it make Crystal any less luxury? And again, I don't see why a luxury line can have a casual Pizza place, but not a buffet?

Butler is nice, but personally I wouldn't pay extra to have a butler. To me it's more a convenience of having one contact point for all of your needs - almost everything that butler does you can ask your room attendant or do yourself by going or calling the front desk or reservations desk.

No contradiction - he mentioned that Elevated wines are a huge chunk of the extra cost. The dining experience itself is exceptional, but so it Jacques on Oceania, which us free. So again, the rational thing would be to make the dining in La Dame free, but charge for the "elevated" wines.

We will be on the Quest in September. I believe this is what would be considered one of the smaller ships? Only 32,000 ton, so pretty close to R ships, but only 450 guests, compared to 700 on the R ships. Should be the best of both worlds.

To me PH on the R class is a poor value. They are usually priced similar to entry level suites on SS and SB, but still smaller and less inclusions. Of course many book them based on the itinerary, but looking at the price only, it's hard to justify PH on the R ships

Thank you for the correction. I based my comparison on our experience. Our cruises were 12 nights and 10 nights, and both had in house entertainers only, so in our case the ratio was 100%. Many people take only shorter cruises, for different reasons, I certainly hope that even on shorter cruises, there are at least some guests entertainers (on O shorter cruises, the ratio is around 50/50 if I remember correctly). On our previous cruise on the Spirit, the reason given for the extra charge was that La Dame is a very small venue and this is done for capacity control. But on the Dawn the venue is about 3 times larger, so this excuse doesn't hold anymore. And even if I accept that the the higher end drinks are the reason, aren't the same or similar drinks available in other venues for extra cost? Why they couldn't do the same in La Dame - offer it for free and then charge extra for those higher end drinks? Well, I must admit that our experience with luxury lines is limited, but I'm pretty sure the old Crystal had an evening buffet. Not sure about SB and Regent, but I'm not sure what buffet has to do with luxury. Many people on SS told us that they miss the evening buffet. btw, SS does have two very casual options (The Grill and Spaccanapoli). So why a luxury line can have a casual grill or Pizza place but not a buffet?

Comparisons are always difficult, and they are highly subjective and personal, this is why I mentioned the size difference and gave a clear win to SS in the cabins category. Even when comparing pricing on lines like Oceania and Azamara, how would you do apples to apples comparison between Azamara and Oceania newer ships? Most people consider their pricing comparable, but A entry level cabins are 170 sqft while O newer ships are 240 sqft. Definitely not apples to apples comparison. Your example of drinks is relevant to people who drink.. we don't.. this is why in my comparison I didn't even mention drinks. On the other hand, one parameter that does matter is service, especially at dining venues. Here is one example: when we come to breakfast buffet, I order sparkling water and cappuccino, then go to bring my food. By the time I'm back to my table, on O the cappuccino was already waiting for me 90% of the time. On SS? Almost never. Sometimes it took a good 10 minutes. Asked for ice and lemon on SS because their water is served almost room temperature. Many times it took ages to bring it, and in some cases they just forgot and I had to remind them. Small things, I know, but as you mentioned, at the luxury level, those differences matter. So yes, we look at pricing, but we also look at the whole package. And in a whole package, some things are more important to you than to me. Things that are important to me are overall comparable on both lines. I would pay more for SS if I was convinced that in the areas that are important to me, it delivers a significantly better experience. btw, we spoke with many people on board that agreed with us. Some didn't. This is why we are all different.

It's not a false premise because this is what we book. Entry level balcony cabins on both ships are good enough for us, so for us it's not a false premise. This is exactly why I mentioned that all comparisons in any area are very personal and depend on what's important to you. That said, how would you suggest comparing the pricing? O has cabins of 240 sqft, 350 sqft (PH) and then it jumps to 800-900 sqft. SS has basic cabins of 300 sqft, then it jumps to 700 sqft for Silver suite. No comparison would be apples to apples.

I didn't notice any difference. All people we talked to were very friendly, social and pleasant, on both lines. Average age on O tends to be higher, especially on Caribbean cruises.

Yes, thank you for the correction.

Well, this was just an executive summary.. want to dig more? Are transfers included with SS? The answer is - it depends. All transfers are included with D2D with air, some are included with D2D without air and none are included with P2P. Are hotels included (pre or post cruise)? Again, it depends. They are on some cruises and some suite categories. What about Venetian society status (you get more perks after 100 days)? I learned that only D2D sailings count. So after 2 cruises that we took P2P we still have 0 VC days, despite sailing with them 22 days. Deviation fee? Again, it depends. Normally it's $150 (O eliminated deviation fee for changing dates), but SS requested us to pay almost $1,000 USD per person for flying 2 days earlier. Same flights, just 2 days earlier. We just took air credit and booked our own flights. Not a big deal. There is more, but you get the idea. To me the fact that a cruise line that markets itself as all inclusive has so many things that are not included is annoying, but I don't make a big deal out of it. You can always find things to complain about if you dig deep enough. We just try to enjoy our vacations and not to make a big deal out of those small and insignificant things. Once you learn the pricing, you just know what to expect and simply compare it to what you get on other lines. Your posts are spot on as always. You are a real asset to CC! Yes, marketing is just that - marketing. Sometimes it's completely disconnected from reality, but we need to be realistic and just ignore it. I love cruising! Our friends say I'm obsessed about cruising. I don't care. We started with Costa, RCI, Celebrity and advanced to O, SS, Azamara and Crystal. Loved all of them, but today I wouldn't sail on any mass market line (unless in a suite). So yes, we all evolve and our tastes change. I don't have THE favorite cruise line, I have a FEW favorite lines. No loyalty, every new booking is a new case and a blank page. For people who keep complaining about SM - please stop! It is what it is. Comparing it to what it was is pointless. The only thing that matters is how the current pricing compares to other lines.

Yes, we are trying SB too next year, and Windstar is also on our radar. I think you cannot go wrong with any of those small ships, a different league from mass market lines like Celebrity/Princess. The minor service issues that I described are really minor and did not impact our overall enjoyment. And yes, agree about enjoyment, but my point is - if I enjoy both lines almost the same, why to pay 50% for SS? But then again, it really depends on the category that you book. For people who book PH on O, entry level veranda on SS might be a better value (especially when comparing to PH on R ships).

That's true, also one of our favorite spots.

To be honest, I don't pay much attention to decor and furnishings, but they look comparable to me. One big difference worth mentioning is that on SS ships all public areas are on the aft, while the cabins are on forward and mid ship. This is very different from O (and most other lines) where public areas are spread between aft and forward (the theater for example is almost always forward while the dining room is aft). personally I don't really care. Those are small ship and fairly easy to navigate, no matter the design.

I'm not sure if you had a chance to compare with Silversea, so lets see: SS has 2 pricings: D2D and P2P. D2D includes air and transfers, but not always, sometimes D2D has air credit. and the fare is fully refundable. P2P does not include air, and the 15% deposit is non refundable. Then there is P2P pre paid, where you get an extra 10-15% discount, but have to pay in full and the whole payment is non refundable. In terms of inclusions: they market the line as all inclusive, but 2 out of 8 restaurants are extra. Excursions are included, but not all of them, some are extra, and only one in each port. Internet is included, but only a basic one (which is pretty basic), you have to pay $29/day to upgrade. Laundry is extra unless you are in one of the higher suites. So every line has its nuances, you just need to learn them and see if the overall package makes sense for you.

Head-to-Head: Comparing Oceania vs. Silversea

We have just returned from a cruise on Silver Dawn (full review here), and I would like to provide a comparison between Oceania and Silversea. The comparison refers to Oceania Riviera (3 cruises total, 2 post Covid) and Silver Dawn and Spirit (one cruise each, both post Covid). Those are my personal observations, priorities and preferences, yours might be different. Inclusions (depends on your preferences). Silversea markets itself as an All inclusive line, but this is not entirely correct. 2 out of 8 restaurants have a surcharge, to get decent internet you have to pay extra, and many wines are extra as well. Excursions are included, but not all of them, about 50% are extra charge. O excludes tips and excursions but you get certain credit depending on the length of the cruise, and wines and beer included with meals only. Some people prefer the all inclusive model, but if you don't drink and prefer to book private tours, O provides a better value for money. Service (almost tie). The service on SS was very good to excellent overall, but we didn't feel that they "learn our preference and anticipate our needs". Except our butler, nobody ever addressed us by our names, and nobody remembered our drink preferences. In fact, we had to ask for many things more than once (like drinks, ice etc) We found the service on O excellent as well, and we would give a very small edge to SS in this department. Staff (tie): I have only good things to say about the staff on both lines. They were extremely friendly and tried very hard. Stateroom (SS wins). We always book the lowest category OV or veranda. This category is ~305 sqft on SS and 240 sqft on O. While O cabins are very nice, SS was a real treat. There is a walking closet, and a curtain separating the bed from the living area. Bathroom Design (SS Wins). SS has both shower and bathtub, which is an advantage for many people. That said, the redesigned bathroom on O has a huge walk in shower, which is very nice. Internet (tie). SS has StarLink, but with the basic package that is included with the fare, they limit the speed to about 1.5M, which is pretty pathetic for an ultra luxury line in 2023. You can do the basic things like email, uploading photos, loading web pages etc, but they block high bandwidth sites and also block streaming like YouTube. To get good internet you need to upgrade, which is $29 a day (a bit less if you buy it for the whole cruise). On O I was getting 3-5 MB speed some days and under 1 MB other days. Slight improvement compared to previous sailings, but still not enough. Both lines need to improve the internet. Activities (tie). I would say that activities on both lines are almost non existent. This is fine for European port intensive cruise, but for the Caribbean, I would probably select another line for better activities. Entertainment (tie). Evening entertainment on SS included a show in the theatre at 9:45pm (not even every day), and some live music around the ship in the various lounges. There were no guest entertainers (I think SS is the only line that doesn't have guest entertainers, only in house shows). The in-house singers have great voices, but the shows were a bit repetitive. O at least has some guest entertainers, and they also have a very nice string quartet. Launderettes (tie). Both have great self-serve laundries. Beds (O wins). Both lines have excellent beds and bedding, but I likes O beds and bedding better. Butler (SS wins): Every suite on SS has butler service. Ours was almost invisible, but did his job very well. We didn't utilize him very much, and he did not volunteer to offer any extra services. O has butlers in PH and above. Ships (SS Wins). O has 3 newer ships (and one more on its way) - Riviera, Marina, Vista and Allura. I don't consider the older R ships in the same league due to much smaller cabins, less dining options etc. SS has 5 newer ships (and one more on its way) - Spirit, Muse, Moon, Dawn, Nova and Ray). All O ships are around 66 tons with 1,200-1250 passengers and 800 crew. The first 4 SS ships are around 40 tons, with 600 passengers and 411 crew. So O has around 1:1.55 passengers/crew ratio while SS has 1:1.45. SS has 1:65 passenger space ratio while O has 1:53. Both metrics give an edge to SS, but none of the ships ever felt crowded. Food at dinners (O wins). O has the main dining room, the buffet and 4 specialty restaurants, where you get certain number of reservations depending on cabin category and cruise length. While on board, you can get more reservations based on availability (all free). There is also baristas and afternoon tea which is a very nice experience. SS has 8 restaurants, but 2 of them are extra cost (which by itself is unacceptable on an all inclusive line). We found the food on both lines between very good and excellent, but O had more meals that were truly memorable. We especially like the specialty restaurants on O in terms of food quality and selection. Food at buffet (Oceania Wins). O has a buffet at breakfast, lunch and dinner, SS only breakfast and lunch. Selection and quality much better on O in my opinion, and O dinner buffet is exceptional, with Lobster and Grill station. We were disappointed with La Terazza breakfast and lunch buffet, both food and service. Long waits for simple items like cappuccino, Perrier etc. After a few days I gave up on Perrier and just was asking for their in house sparkling water, but they ran out of Perrier and Pellegrino around mid cruise, also all types of diet Coke. Excursions (SS wins): SS fare includes one excursion per port, while O provides some credit which is typically enough to cover about 20-25% of the excursions. They both use the same tour operators, but SS groups size is typically 20-25 people while O is closer to 35 (at least this was the case on our last cruise in May). That said, we prefer to book private tours, so to us, O model works better when it comes to excursions. Dress code(O wins): SS is much more formal, in fact, their dress code is the most ridiculous and archaic of all cruise lines. O is much more relaxed, no jackets required, but people still dress very respectfully. You can rarely see men in jeans or t ****. To me, O wins big time in this department, but of course there are many people who like SS dress code. Pricing (O wins): This one is tricky because the cabins are not comparable. O standard cabin is 240 sqft, then jumps to 350 sqft for PH (excluding veranda). SS entry level is 305 sqft, then jumps to 700 sqft for Silver Suite. This makes the comparison difficult. For entry level cabins, SS is more expensive by approximately 40-50%, but it also includes more, so the real gap is smaller. Summary: I consider both lines excellent overall. Some people consider SS in a different league (luxury vs premium category), but this was not my impression, based on our relatively small sample. To me SS is a step up compared to O, but a very small one. SS is a good value for people who drink decent amounts of alcohol, use exclusively ship excursions, need cabins larger than 250 sqft and take full advantage of the butler services. To me, O is a better value at this point, but we would gladly sail on both, depending on itinerary and pricing.

I never compared pricing for higher suites because we always book the lowest category. And I'm aware that comparing a 240 sqft on O with 300+ sqft on SS is not exactly apples to apples, but this is what we book, so this is the price point comparison for us. And this is exactly why I mentioned that SS might be a better value for people who like larger cabins. Also the comparison is even more problematic because on O the size jumps from 400 sqft for PH to over 1,000 sqft on Oceania suite, nothing in between, so obviously the price double between those two categories. But on SS there is a Sliver suite which is around 700 sqft.

We have very limited experience pre Covid (1 cruise with O and no cruises with SS), so I cannot compare to pre Covid and say with certainty which line slipped and which slipped more. To me, this is less relevant. We all know that a lot has changed after Covid, and what's relevant is the comparison of the current situation, and this is what I do, based on 2 cruises with SS and 3 with O post Covid. Yes, some people think O slipped badly, but you also read some very positive experiences. There was a very long and detailed topic on O board from a first time cruiser on O who did a very long planning and very detailed report and he said that O exceeded his expectations. So there are many opinions. And the previous poster said it the best: to me, the food is better on O (not by a large margin but still better), rest of the areas comparable, some slightly better on SS, but not enough to justify the ~50% difference in price.

We just returned from the Dawn and I posted a review - https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=710046 We had a great trip, although with few minor issues, and this sailing confirmed my current take: maybe before Covid SS and O were in different leagues, now I consider them comparable. SS might be a small step up, but a very small one, and I'm not sure the price difference is justified to me. SS is a good value for people who drink decent amounts of alcohol, use exclusively ship excursions, need cabins larger than 250 sqft and take full advantage of the butler services. I know that not everyone would agree, but this is my opinion. Questions are welcome.

Exactly. But we also have seen more than enough men with their own jackets who hanged them once they reached the table. No opinions, just the facts.