shadowlover

17 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

This is hardly an effective point to raise, as the US CDC has never agreed with Viking's COVID policy, since it was first promulgated in December 2020.

 

The US CDC has never equalled Viking's standards for daily testing or even 100% vaccinations.

Well if you want to trust more in viking than the CDC that says it all.  I don't mean to be argumentative.  I'm sure viking is trusting their choice to test daily and I'm sure they are bearing the brunt of costs involved of which there are many. 

If you remember back to the beginning of the pandemic, there was a mask shortage.  (the reason why cdc was hesitant to recommend).  I had one surgical mask that I literally wore for weeks.   We knew so little of this crazy virus.  Now we know more but not everything.  We were scared!  My clinic patients certainly didn't wear their masks correctly.  Sick children certainly have difficulty wearing masks correctly but yet even in those early days we did not get sick.  I guess that has added to my faith in the good old surgical mask.  I know they are uncomfortable to wear for hours on end but don't you think it makes little sense to test everyone every day as they mingle amongst the entire cruise without masks being mandatory?  Do both or neither but I would suggest just masks and testing symptomatic passengers.  Then treat the positive patients with the antivirals to protect against worsening infection.

2 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

If you have that much faith in a mask, then I suggest it is a fairly safe bet that you have never worn a mask in an environment that is dangerous to life and health. Having worked in environments on Chemical Tankers where 1 breath meant death, I don't have the same level of faith in the average COVID mask.

 

Prior to wearing a mask at work, we required training, fitting (mask sizing), testing and a mandatory requirement of being clean shaven. Yes, masks can and do work, but they must fit properly and most importantly, they must seal properly. In addition, the filter, or fabric must be appropriate for the risk. When wearing a mask, if you can smell anything, the mask isn't working.

 

Most masks that I see people wearing are providing minimal protection. At best, they are a single layer of a multi-layer protection, in accordance with the swiss-cheese model of risk management.

Actually I am an ob/gyn and work with covid patients.  Have since the beginning.  Have never gotten the infection.  I am vaccinated and boosted times two.  My partner is a pediatrician- has worked with children from the beginning of the pandemic.  No infection.  Masks religiously.  All of my children in health care, mask and no infection.   I strongly believe in masks,,, yes.  I also believe in vaccines.  I also believe in common sense.  I follow the science.  I follow the statistics.  I am not opposed to changing my mind if the situation changes.

1 hour ago, LindaS272 said:

So don’t travel with Viking, people, if you don’t like the precautions against Covid. We’re still in a pandemic! Just because many countries have removed mandatory restrictions, it doesn’t mean there is not still a risk for getting Covid. Too many people think that removing mandates means the protocols aren’t necessary. Quite the contrary, in fact. It just puts the onus on the individual to manage the risk. The medical professionals are still recommending masking and social distancing. We just completed a three week trip—two on Viking—one in SJ/BCN/London—masked up and social distanced everywhere—and did not get Covid. Tested 16x in those three weeks.

We have absolutely EVERY right to voice our opinions just as you do.  Many of us love viking cruises and have made suggestions for change in many areas, this covid testing is just one.    I am all for masking.  I will continue to suggest stopping daily covid testing and there are many others who agree with me.  To tell us "just don't sail with viking" isn't really that helpful.  Many of us have money already tied up in trips planned well before covid.

There are reasons why countries as well as CDC wouldn't necessarily agree with viking current policy.

Also many would argue that we are now in an endemic.

I would also say that it would be reasonable to believe that there are minimal covid outbreaks on viking ships as a direct result of the vaccination status of all on board.  You have exposed others PRIOR to a positive test (not necessarily infected them).  I would further state that mask wearing makes a lot more sense than daily testing... Until we stop quarantining EVERY single positive we will not know how much of an outbreak there will be on a fully vaccinated ship (which I highly doubt the Brazilian ship was).  We will also, in my opinion which is based on science and statistics, see mainly mild symptoms even if there is a widespread outbreak on a viking ship full of fully vaccinated passengers.  We are at most protecting a small outlier of passengers.

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

And that in a nutshell is why Viking still do daily testing.

 

COVID will continue to come aboard cruise ships. With an older demographic and no masks or social distancing, the daily testing helps to mitigate the risks of further spread, as has happened on other ships. I suspect Viking are trying to prevent the same as happened in Brazil, where the authorities quarantined 2 entire ships and suspended cruise ship operations from all their ports.

Hmmm.  Did the brazil ship require vaccinations to take the cruise? 

To think you are "safe" by having daily covid testing on a ship where no one is required to wear masks does not make any sense.  All it is telling us is that we are being exposed to covid....  Covid is highly contagious.  Once someone tests positive they have exposed multiple people. Personally, I have trust in my vaccinations and boosters.  I think that I have a larger chance of testing positive with daily covid testing than I do of getting seriously ill from said infection.   If one feels the need for daily testing for covid among asymptomatic vaccinated passengers to keep from getting seriously ill then I am thinking a cruise vacation where masking is not mandatory is probably not a good choice.   It's also seeming like a horrible choice for those of us who would go stir crazy sitting in a closed space for 10 days, especially with mild symptoms as this op has.

I was able to cancel without any problem at all.  That was pre covid however I don’t know if it matters.   With your cancel for any reason insurance let them know that you could easily cancel but don’t wish to.  How far out is the trip?  If it’s close then they may have already incurred expense but if not then it should be no big deal to just cancel an extension.  Many times there are wait lists for the extensions.  

I have paid for excursions through viking and haven't been disappointed or felt I was cheated.  I also did an extension pre cruise through viking in Athens and thought it was a tremendous value although not  inexpensive.  I think you're wise pricing it on your own to see what else is available.  We usually do the included excursions and pay for private tours when wanting to see more.  I never feel nickel and dimed with viking and your drinks example is a good one.

We will be staying in Madrid for 5 nights on our own and doing day trips.  We then head to Barcelona for two nights prior to getting on the ship.  Any and all ideas are welcome if you feel like reminiscing!  TY in advance.

22 hours ago, TravlingGato said:

Watch for Viking slight of hand on airline reservations.  Checked MyVikingJourney today and saw change in return flight in June from Anchorage to a different airline.  Went to the airline site and see flights different from what show on MYVikingJourney. In fact there are three flights on the airline site and two on the Viking site for the return trip, both change from one of the best rated airlines to one of the worst rated.  Overall the handling of our travel reservations on Viking has been clearly the ABSOLUTE WORST experience in nearly 30 cruises (only the 2nd with Viking, likely the last. A heated bathroom floor doesn't make up for degraded air travel.).  The reservations give the impression that once Viking has handled the client for the cruise, who cares how the company dumps you off at home.

Yikes that's upsetting.  I would definitely reach out to viking air.  I think sometimes things are computer generated/changed.  One time I complained and the air department immediately looked into it and made satisfactory changes.  It may not always be someone trying to get one over on you and I certainly hope this is not the case.

2 hours ago, Twitchly said:

As a person of size*, I am deeply offended by your use of the term “weighty.” I prefer “differently weighted.”  Or better yet, “svelte.”
 

 

*Especially after a Viking cruise. 

Seriously.  Cruises have plenty to eat at all times making it difficult for those svelte.  I mean I don't know anyone who hasn't gained weight on a viking cruise.

uh oh.....

Social media can be a difficult place to "discuss" anything, especially lately.   I feel like there should be some reminders and tips for healthy discussions.  I fear that there are some who can turn any conversation into a "weighty topic".  I've seen some real silly stuff.  People giving opinions about food or something so subjective and others slamming them for their opinion.  We all have different backgrounds and different expectations.  However, for the most part I shall continue to read the forums and look forward to my distant cruise.

13 hours ago, shadowlover said:

I never said there was a zero death rate in a vaccinated person.  I certainly take this virus seriously.  My point remains that if we are taking the risk to travel then we are factoring in things such as our vaccinated status, our immune system and history of illness etc.   I am 100 percent pro vaccination.  I am pro masking in confined spaces.  I am also a critical thinker and follow statistics.  Statistically- vaccinated people are extremely less likely to become very sick to the point of hospitalization and vaccinated people are extremely less likely to die from covid 19.  I am sure anyone can show me outliers but lets deal with statistics.  If we are taking the "risk" to travel, and the risk is much lower with fully vaccinated people, then we need to be a little bit more comfortable with no daily testing, no unnecessary quarantining and disruption of our trip!  I don't mean to upset anyone, but those of us willing to travel need to be willing to absorb some risk.  The risk of daily testing, in my opinion far outweighs the benefits.   Lets test symptomatic travelers, treat them with anti viral medications to keep them well and isolate them if necessary.   We all know that we are being exposed daily to covid 19 right?  Do we need everyone around us tested to prove this to us?  

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm

https://newsinhealth.nih.gov/2021/10/covid-19-vaccines-prevented-nearly-140000-us-deaths

And let's reiterate my POINT  (above) instead of picking on something said, twisting it into an exaggeration and getting our panties in a twist.  No one needs to agree with my point but let's not accuse me of believing something that I don't.  Thank you.  I can see how some people may have trouble making friends 🙂

6 hours ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

And yet another COVID debate goes on and on ad infinitum.

Folks, life is not a zero sum game where they have to be wrong for you to be right.

 

A voice of reason!  Thank you.  The saddest part is that this person arguing with me has no idea that we both probably fundamentally agree.  It was a circular argument where misinterpretation led to speculation and anger.  Anyway- I don't need to continue to engage.  I already know I'm right 🙂

31 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

I'm a mathematician and I understand the data. Never did I say that the latest variants are as deadly, particularly for those who are vaccinated. But that's not what the poster whose position you're supporting said. The argument for the position he took is " No one I know who has received the vaccines and then tested positive has had any symptoms worse than a mild cold" , which while perhaps true in terms of his personal experience is anything but scientifically true. A single person's observation of a small number of people does not create a scientific truth.

I wish I saw this before I answered your comment to me.  " A single person's observation of a small number of people (your friend who died) does not create a scientific truth.  Another vital truth in science is to not take things out of context.  You clearly were not following the conversation when you reacted to my statement.  

44 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

 I'm a mathematician and retired actuary. Let me assure you that  I fully understand how to interpret the data.

If you had said the above in your first post I would not have had an argument with it. But here's what you actually said, which in some sense is worse than saying there's a zero death rate in vaccinated persons. "No one I know who has received the vaccines and then tested positive has had any symptoms worse than a mild cold." That you don't know anyone who had more than a cold as justification for your position is a 100% specious and empty argument. I don't know anyone who has leukemia. Does that mean no one in the world has leukemia?  Get the point?

Actually what I said "no one I know who has received the vaccines and then tested positive has had any symptoms worse than a mild cold" is 100 percent true statement... I didn't imply that no one had died- YOU interpreted what I said according to what you thought I was saying and thus became upset.   I work in health care and have tons of positive cases come across my desk top daily- those who have been vaccinated aren't ending up in the hospital trust me. 

 I believe you stated that you know someone who died from covid after a vaccine.  Am I then to get upset that you believe that no one is protected from the vaccine??? Because you can show me one person who died after receiving the vaccine?   Get the point???   My point has been stated and has been totally and scientifically proven to be statistically correct.   After vaccination against covid 19 it is much less likely for someone to become sick enough for hospitalizations and even less likely for them to die from covid 19 infection.  If you are who you say you are then please go back and do some more research on the numbers and statistical probabilities.

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

 

These posts really anger me. 

@shadowloverwould you like me to introduce you to a family we know who just lost their vaccinated husband and father to COVID? He wasn't a senior citizen either...or someone with a disabling illness. A middle aged middle class working man.

@rbslos18 please show me the evidence proving that what was said is "scientifically true.'" There certainly is not a zero death rate from COVID for those who are vaccinated.

I never said there was a zero death rate in a vaccinated person.  I certainly take this virus seriously.  My point remains that if we are taking the risk to travel then we are factoring in things such as our vaccinated status, our immune system and history of illness etc.   I am 100 percent pro vaccination.  I am pro masking in confined spaces.  I am also a critical thinker and follow statistics.  Statistically- vaccinated people are extremely less likely to become very sick to the point of hospitalization and vaccinated people are extremely less likely to die from covid 19.  I am sure anyone can show me outliers but lets deal with statistics.  If we are taking the "risk" to travel, and the risk is much lower with fully vaccinated people, then we need to be a little bit more comfortable with no daily testing, no unnecessary quarantining and disruption of our trip!  I don't mean to upset anyone, but those of us willing to travel need to be willing to absorb some risk.  The risk of daily testing, in my opinion far outweighs the benefits.   Lets test symptomatic travelers, treat them with anti viral medications to keep them well and isolate them if necessary.   We all know that we are being exposed daily to covid 19 right?  Do we need everyone around us tested to prove this to us?  

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm

https://newsinhealth.nih.gov/2021/10/covid-19-vaccines-prevented-nearly-140000-us-deaths

12 hours ago, coconut thunder said:

@shadowlover We were on another expedition ship in December 2021 for an Antarctic cruise on the Crystal Endeavor and it was flawless.  Outside of Covid precautions like a travel bubble chartered flight from MIA to USH, a battery of nasal swabs and crew wearing masks, you would not have known there was a pandemic.  
With this Viking cruise we were sold something we didn’t get. While I would be inclined to cut slack for Covid related issues, the shortfalls on this cruise seemed to be extremely poor planning as well as leaving us feeling mislead.  I don’t want to sound like I’m just here to bash Viking, it was a pleasant cruise. It just wasn’t the one I paid for.

That is upsetting to not get what you paid for.  I think comparing a caribbean cruise to an antarctic cruise even if within the same line though is just not fair.   It is just really tough to make a caribbean trip that exciting but again I acknowledge the lack of service found by some on board recent viking trips.  

32 minutes ago, SailorPaulH said:

Taking it one step further - it's best to test positive 10-90 days before you leave, based on Viking's travel instructions.

 

One question I have not seen asked is about various reports of people being quarantined or removed from VOC and VRC cruises: are these passengers testing positive for their first time ever or have they tested positive sometime in the past (prior to the 90 day limit)? IF so. it would suggest that anyone who has had COVID in the past should not worry to much about testing positive during the trip as re-infection has been shown to be a rare event (albeit it possible).

I know many people who have tested positive multiple times , some of them despite 3 vaccines.  This is a crazy and unpredictable virus.  No one I know who has received the vaccines and then tested positive has had any symptoms worse than a mild cold.  It is time to truly move past this for those of us vaccinated and boosted and willing to continue with recommended vaccines.

1 hour ago, Not a Georgia Peach said:

The question was asked by Shadowlover if anyone had sailed on another luxury cruise line in the past year.  We have, we sailed on Regent in January and it was fabulous.  We have previously sailed on Viking, both river and ocean.  Our first river cruise was great and then they went downhill.  Our first ocean cruise was great and then they went downhill.  We will not sail on Viking again.  Several times while on Regent we commented on the total difference from Viking.  The only plus for Viking is there interior design style, but most areas on Regent were much more comfortable.

Good to know!  Friends are traveling soon on Regent and they will be glad to hear positives.  So far in their planning with excursions etc they have had a terrible experience... They said just tonight "regent is not as seamless as viking so far".  I could tell they are a little nervous so this will be a good experience to share with them.

7 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

@shadowloverWhile you bring up valid points, and you have had excellent experiences in the past I hope that your next voyage is everything you expect. While it is all well and good to look at things "in light of" until you paid full price for a Mercedes S class but actually got a Mercedes B class. They have the same brand but are not interchangeable. It seems that recently a portion of guests have spent thousands extra for an ok experience. I hope  that Viking gets back on track before your next cruise so that you feel that the thousands of dollars extra you paid were well spent for an outstanding vacation. For us it was not.

yes exactly, me too !  I don't sail until December so I pray it so.    But again- anyone traveling at this time is definitely taking "risks" and one of those risks is traveling "in light of" covid.   I agree that viking may be over promising from what I am reading lately.  If you do decide to give Viking another try- I would suggest doing one of their European river cruises, but I would wait for at least a year.  The cruise we are going on has mostly sea days as it is a repositioning cruise.  I don't trust this traveling climate no matter who I am giving my money to.  

If I remember correctly, if it is ship board credit that comes from viking then it will be available immediately.   In the past it was visible right when I logged on.  I don't have any for an upcoming trip except for what my TA is giving me and that doesn't show until I board the trip.  I believe it was on the page with my booking summary in the past..  

Is it really fair to judge viking in light of the fact that we are still dealing with covid issues?  Has anyone here tried any other luxury cruise lines in the past year?  Also , viking is really renowned as a European river cruise company that also branched out as a small ocean cruise line.  To begin a cruise in Milwaukee... I have some hesitations about right off the bat but I realize Americans could be leery about traveling abroad.  I have done a river and an ocean cruise with viking  and both were outstanding.  Both were trips of a lifetime and they bent over backwards to make sure it was so.   I would never be able to go back to mainline cruising. 

Along with everything else in the world right now- there is probably a struggle to find help, supplies etc.   The fine balance between loss, future projected loss and trying to make a profit- well I can't really imagine it.  So far in my planning stage for my next cruise with viking I continue to have very responsive interactions with viking customer service, including the air plus service.  Just want to put that out there for those that read a lot of recent negatives.  We have to look at everything "in light of".  Now- do I want to spend thousands more for just an ok experience?  No.  But I do have trust in Viking.  They seem responsive to constructive criticism.  So again I say - Viking, please please stop the daily covid testing!

yes but depending on the type, you may need to wait until you are on board to use it thus delaying your excursion purchase.  If you look on your MVJ you will be able to see if you have usable credit.  

3 hours ago, bpolen said:

First off I feel horrible for @eel, but as he said trying to learn from their situation. 

 

Since, my first cruise is coming up in a couple weeks let me ask this question.  When I purchased early last year we decided to use premium credit cards vs getting insurance do the many complaints I read on this board.(to cover for disruptions, medical emergencies etc)  Is there any recourse, credit card or travel insurance that covers someone in eel's situation given Viking's rules that go above and beyond local mandates?    If there is travel insurance that does cover, with 2 weeks left is it too late to purchase?

 

 

I often call Steve from the  trip insurance store and ask him all of these types of questions.  He is an absolute wealth of information.  He many times is on this board answering questions as well.  Not sure if any of us can answer this question with as much knowledge.  

VIKING PLEASE STOP THE DAILY TESTING!  I mean we will all be required to be vaccinated (totally agree with this measure) so even if we are exposed to covid AND even if we actually contract it we will most likely have minimal symptoms.  We are all taking the risk to travel.  We could get any number of illnesses and have any number of accidents.  The daily testing IMO is so costly.  People with minimal symptoms are being quarantined or sent home.  Being stuck in a cabin for 10 days adds risks- think about it.  You have minimal activity for 10 days- could lead to blood clots, deconditioning,  mental distress etc.  If other countries are requiring this testing for us to dock, well then it must continue but if this is just a viking thing PLEASE stop.  To mask makes so much more sense then this daily testing!