terrydtx

I agree...However it applies equally to those who have never experienced Freestyle, Anytime, AYWD, etc...In over 40 years of cruising I have done both, though the majority has been traditional...In my opinion each has it's good and bad points...When I first started cruising I accepted Traditional bcause that was all that was offered on most cruiselines...We now have choices which we never had before...I now prefer Anytime...Others prefer Traditional.

Opinions, well stated, I too have experienced both and my DW and I prefer open dining but accepted traditional in early cruises because that was all that was available. HAL is doing something no other cruise line is, giving its passengers the choice of either traditional or open dining seating. Why so many posters here are against this amazes me, the only conclusion can be, that they want to impose their “choice” on the rest of us or are just against change. Comparing the freestyle cruise of NCL to HAL’s AYWD is ludicrous, that’s like comparing The Sizzler Steak house to Morton’s steak house. Both serve steaks but one has a much better product and service. If you can have the choice of steak at the Sizzler or a prime streak at Morton’s for just a few dollars more, what would you choose?

bic, doncha think if people in this forum wanted freestyle dining they would already have chosen to sail with NCL instead of HAL?

 

I am aware that many people love NCL, but I have no first hand experience nor do you, so why would you feel the need to opine on this matter with that reference?:confused:

 

jc

I have first hand experience with NCL and their freestyle and I loved the open dining, but hated everything else about the cruise. The food and service was not to HAL or Celebrity standards. What HAL is doing is not the same as NCL’s “Freestyle” cruising. Freestyle also covers the dress code and other traditional cruise attributes. The open dining was great but the over weight women in spandex or jeans at the dining table at night kind of ruined the atmosphere of the dinner. HAL’s new open dining option (AYWD) now gives us the choice of not having to settle for a lower quality cruise line like NCL and hopefully no more spandex at dinner.

We can have the option for either Traditional seating or open dining and I am looking forward to my AYWD option on the Volendam in November. I have heard that Celebrity will have a similar open dining option by the time of our cruise on the Century next September.

Although I am confirmed for early traditional dining on my upcoming cruise, I did it because eating at 8pm is too late for us, and we want traditional dining with all the things that implies, like the same steward, same table, same table mates(even though we like a table for 2). I would much prefer eating around 7pm, but because no one has reported back about AYWD, I don't know if I can get the table for two I want, no hassle reservations, no standing in line, and the same steward every night. No one has even reported what it's like to make a reservation. Do you need to do that only once for the whole cruise or every day? I too wish some people who have experienced this, good or bad, would report in and let us know how it's going.

I will be experiencing AYWD on my Volendam cruise in November and will be posting my experiences. We originally had confirmed the 6:15 seating when we booked but with the AYWD change on Volendam in November, we were giving the 5:45 seating. This is just way too early for us (6:15 was too early too) and 8:00 was way too late. Like you we prefer to eat around 7:00 so we changed our preference from traditional to AYWD. We are traveling with 4 other friends so a table of 6 or 8 meets out needs. From what I have gathered from posters, my TA and HAL, you can reserve a time and table up to 4:00pm of that day. What I do not know is if you have to do that every day, which I suspect you would. I heard there has been on the ships so far with AYWD a lot of pax not taking their traditional seating and crossing over to AYWD during the cruise which has irritated those others who couldn’t get a traditional seating prior to departure.

MY TA found out that HAL is no longer going to allow passengers with traditional seating to cross over to AYWD once they have boarded the ship. So the decision to opt out of a traditional seating has to be made prior to departure. We had thought about keeping our 5:45 seating and using AYWD when we needed the later dining times, but dropped it when we found out about the new HAL policy.

Ah, but when one of them finally does post, and they will, how many will seize upon the 1/18,000 as validation that AYW is a dismal failure?

Wouldn't that depend upon the post being only negative about AYWD?

I, too, would like to see more reports from those who have sailed with the AYWD in place. The only problem is that it has yet to be implemented on any ship except the Noordam. And, since you're actually selecting the Open Dining seating option of AYWD, I'll be particularly interested to read your remarks. On the other hand, if I get what I want, I'll be in Traditional aboard the Rotterdam and shouldn't be able to tell any difference.

Don't worry I will back here after my cruise in December with what I liked or maybe disliked about AYWD. By the way, if we ever meet up on a HAL cruise you are welcome to sit at my table anytime. but it will probably on a AYWD table.

I have contacts in HAL that I might be able to manipulate and get at least a summary of the results. :) I'll try.

Revneal, I see you are booked on the Volendam Nov. 3rd cruise, is that the first sailing on the Volendam with AYWD? If so, I look forward to your comments when you return. I am on the Nov. 23 sailing and I know it has AYWD.

I would like to see more posters on this forum who experienced AYWD this summer and what they liked or disliked about the open dining.

As for our group on the Rotterdam, I think we all selected second-seating, and specifically 8 pm -- that happens to be my favorite dining time, but I'm not bothered by 8:30 either. Early dining is just TOO early for me, and hence people like you switching out don't help us at all. IF I have to eat at 5:45 aboard ship I'm not hungry post-lunch and I don't like being rushed on port days AND I don't like being rushed in dinner (second seating one isn't rushed unless one wants to be). Additionally"

I bet that there will be people booked at 8 and 8:30 who will opt out for AYWD too. Your quote from above makes the point in favor of AYWD, wheras 5:45 and 6:15 are too early for you (and for me too) maybe 7 to 7:30 would work better for you, it does for me, than the 8 or 8:30 seating which are way too late for me.

For both RuthC and my self, our first experience of being aboard ship where the AYW dining system is fully in place and operational will be this next January, for our South American/Antarctica cruise aboard the Rotterdam. On this cruise we're with a small group of CCers most of whom planned this cruise while aboard the CC Group Cruise to Hawaii (The Voyage of the Spammed). Several of us are solo on this cruise, but we're with a group and that will change matters for us even if we're (as a group) placed in the AYW dining area. I don't anticipate any problems with our being able to arrange things to our liking for each evening, even if we're not in Traditional. It may take some extra work, and some extra negotiations with the Dining Room Staff, but such will be worth it to ensure our dining experience is agreeable. Of course, IF they give us Traditional Dining, we won't have anything to do beyond the "ordinary." And, given that most of us had booked this cruise by January of this year (a year in advance of the cruise) one would think that we should be able to get our dining choice. But ... no ... we're all "waitlisted."

 

I suspect the reason so many wanting traditional dining are waitlisted has to do with the way HAL has introduced the change without a lot of explanation to both TA’s and the public. We booked our November cruise for 3 cabins ( 6pax ) in January of this year and were confirmed for the 6:15 seating. In March my wife’s mother thought about going with us ( as a solo) and when we inquired with our TA if she could be added to our table of 6 the TA called HAL and discovered that we all had been moved to the 5:45 seating with no explanation. All 6 of us went ballistic at first because even the 6:15 seating was too early for us but much more desirable than 8:00. I demanded an explanation from HAL through my TA as to why we were moved to 5:45. On the TA’s next call to HAL she was that told HAL was eliminating the 6:15 dinner times on their ships and that we could not move to the later seating at 8:00 as it was waitlisted. I told the TA that we may all consider cancelling the cruise if we did not get our original 6:15 seating. Princess had a very similar itinerary that we began to look at. On the second call to HAL in April the TA was told about the new AYWD and we were delighted. I suspect that many already booked passengers that had the 6:15 or 8:30 seating times confirmed and have not had much communication with their booking agents or who booked online have no idea about the AYWD options and that they were either moved to the 5:45 or 8:00 seating or waitlisted. If we had not inquired about adding my mother in law we would not have known until we received our cruise documents in November. My point is there may be a lot of booked passengers who have traditional seating times and have no idea that AYWD is available and would change like we did when they find out. We even thought about keeping our 5:45 seating and use it on days at sea and use AYWD on days in port, but when we found out that if you are on the traditional dining you can not switch to AYWD on some days with out having to wait in line for a table or not be able to make a reservation all 6 of us switched to AYWD. This also freed up 6 spots for the 5:45 seating for those who want it. I will admit HAL has done a terrible job of disseminating information about the change to AYWD and I hope that you get your traditional choice in January as more like us give up the traditional seating for AYWD.

Revneal and RuthC, lets agree to disagree and after we have been on our upcoming HAL cruises with AYWD, let’s all come back to this forum and state our actual experiences with AYWD. Only then can we both be rational and factual about how well or not AYWD works. I have to say I have not been on an NCL or Princess cruise with open dining, I like the concept, but I may not like the actuality of it. The only cruise I have experienced with open dining was on Cruise West a couple years back, but it was a small ship with only 150 passengers and the open dining was just the one seating per night.

If HAL can keep both traditional and AYWD on all ships then they can keep both sides of the market happy, the 65% who want AYWD and the 35% who prefer traditional. Both NCL and Princess offer only the open dining and only time will tell whether the other major lines will follow HAL’s or the NCL and Princess examples.

I will concede that I most likely do not get it about solo cruising and its unique challenges, my posts about that were when I thought I was being accused of not getting “it” about the overall, not just the solo cruisers, concerns about AYWD. I hope that I am never a solo cruiser as I do not think I would like it much, My wife’s Grandmother lost her husband at a very young age and she was on over 50 Princess cruises almost all solo before she passed. I remember she made many, many friends on those cruises which were back then all traditional dining and the only reason she traveled solo was to make new friends.

Let's not confuse the issue by quoting a post from someone who actually has experienced AYWD on HAL...We don't want any facts to get in the way of this debate.

Well stated Opinions. Somebody earlier today posted something about not "getting it" until I have walked in her shoes, well I don't think the facts or opinions of those who have experienced AYWD on HAL will make a bit of difference to her either.

Maybe you've already seen this post by spcl4cs gal who has just returned from the Noordam. She gives her firsthand experience with AYW dining.

 

Karin

Here is the exact quote from spc14cs gal on the Noordam AYWD this summer in Alaska. I think this pretty much proves my point about AYWD and the concerns Ruth and Revneal have about tablemates and tradition while utilizing AYWD should be eased somewhat.

\

"Food & Open Dining

"Having booked my cruise only three months prior to sailing date, I was waitlisted for a 5:30 dinner seating but ended up being put in Open Dining on Deck 2 of the Vista Diningroom. It really wasn’t all that bad in the end mainly due to the fact that I could request a specific table steward each night. So, after a first meal with Johny and Surya, I just asked for a table in their section each night at 5:30 and had no problem getting one. In the end I was seated with the same two ladies each night as well so it was as if I had Traditional Dining anyway."

terrydtx, this illustration -- while humorous -- does nothing to demonstrate that you "get" the concerns that Solo Cruises (like Ruth and I) have when it comes to the issue of dining companions under the AYW system. You may "get it" regarding the advantages of being able to choose your dining time and companions, but thus far you've posted NOTHING to indicate that you "get" the concerns of Traditionalists ... and certainly not of Solo Traditionalists.

I guess you and Ruth have been lucky so far and not had the 2 librarians fro Massachusetts as your table mates. With AYWD what’s to keep you on the first night or two from sitting at a table of 6 or 8 and finding nice table mates to book with every night the rest of the cruise? You could still book the same table with the same table mates and maybe same waiters. From several posts I have seen from actual AYWD passenger experiences this summer on HAL this has been the case and I think you and Ruth would be able to have the best of both worlds even as a solo cruiser.

This is “choice” and you would never get stuck with my two librarian friends. I do get it about single cruising and its challenges, but have you ever had table mates you couldn’t stand and couldn’t get away from?

terrydtx, this illustration -- while humorous -- does nothing to demonstrate that you "get" the concerns that Solo Cruises (like Ruth and I) have when it comes to the issue of dining companions under the AYW system. You may "get it" regarding the advantages of being able to choose your dining time and companions, but thus far you've posted NOTHING to indicate that you "get" the concerns of Traditionalists ... and certainly not of Solo Traditionalists.

I guess you and Ruth have been lucky so far and not had the 2 librarians from Massachusetts as your table mates.

 

Can we at least agree on that or are you a fan of that evil empire from the other side of Alabama?

 

Bob (A Yankee who spent a few years in Tuscaloosa)

NHBob I hope you can count to 6. WAR EAGLE!!

:D

You believe incorrectly.

Ruth, let me tell you about two Librarians from Massachusetts we were stuck with at our table of 4 on our last cruise. They had the personalities of dried paint and they were bible thumpers that gave my wife a lecture on the evils of alcohol every night when I ordered a martini and a bottle of wine. They even asked us not to drink in front of them at dinner, because our wine and my martini was offensive to them. I sure wish we had AYWD on that cruise so that “WE” could choose our table mates.

We did ask the Matre D to change tables and we were told that was not an option because the dining room was full, but that we could move from our chosen early seating to the late seating. By the third night I drank 3 martinis got kinda nasty and the two librarians never showed up at our seating again, I bet they wish they had AYWD as an option too!

So Ruth as I said I get it and you still do not get it and I doubt you ever will.

You just don't "get it", do you? It's still unknown if everyone who wants traditional will have it. It's still unknown if HAL is going to make the accommodations necessary on each and every cruise so that those of us who want the choice of a set time/table/table mates will have it without going to the trouble of setting it up for ourselves every night.

Some of us don't have the luxury of reserving a table with the same people every night on our own because there aren't any other people we know to reserve with.

Under the worst possible scenario, then, looking at other lines is absolutely being "open minded". We are being open to making a new cruiseline our home.

Ruth, I believe that YOU are the one who doesn’t get it!!! If you wanted the 6:15 Traditional seating and when you booked all that was available was the 8:30 seating, is that getting what you want? Did HAL make accommodations to all those who were stuck at 8:30 so they could eat at the earlier seating? The obvious answer was no, they couldn’t do that. The early seating has always been the first to fill and those of us who couldn’t get the early seating were stuck with either late seating, the Lido deck or room service. Was that a fair choice? So if you have to have your “traditional” seating you will have to book early just like you did if you wanted the 5:45 or 6:15 seating. So obviously all you traditionalist may not get what you want if you book late but you will not have to be stuck eating in the dining room at 8 or 8:30!!

Take you open mindedness and go look at the Fred Olsen or SAGA cruise lines and I bet you will be back on HAL. AS I have said in earlier postings, according to cruise industry people in the know, within 2 years Celebrity, NCCL and Carnival will be following HAL, NCL and Princess with some sort of open dining option.

.

 

It seems to me (and maybe I'm wrong:o ) that those of us who prefer Traditional are being open minded and saying we have no problem with a choice if there is truly a choice, but we want to be able to continue Traditional dining.

 

Yet others just keep hammering away at us that change is inevitable, we have to adjust, "freestyle", "AYW", whatever you want to call it, is the wave of the future and we're just going to have to accept it.

 

No we don't. We're willing to understand the opposite point of view, we're willing to accept both being offered, but we don't want to give up what we enjoy.

 

:D :D ???

The posters on here who say they will leave HAL to go elsewhere are "Open Minded”? Give me a break! HAL is giving you a choice either traditional or AYWD. Wanting to eat at 6:15pm and having to accept only 8:00pm because you book a cruise late isn’t any choice either. If you have to have the same table with the same table mates every night, then all you have to do is reserve that table with the same people every day at the same time. Of course that’s only if AYWD was you dining preference before the cruise departs. Only those passengers with AYWD as their preference get to reserve times and tables. If you have a traditional seating and want to use AYWD then you may have to wait in line for a table at times other than your assigned dining time.

Yes change in all things is inevitable and those of you who are so strongly opposed to AYWD are probably the same folks who opposed giving up their old IBM Selectric Typewriters in favor of computers with word-processing. You probably preferred telegrams instead of emails too!

AYWD now gives me the CHOICE of cruising on HAL instead of NCL and I can’t wait for AYWD dining. By the way our group of 6 booked early and had a 5:45 table for 6 that we all gave up when the AYWD was announced so 6 of you “Traditionalists” out there on our cruise in November can thank me and the 4 others we are cruising with.

A friend of mine who is an editor for a major travel industry magazine that is privy to a lot of cruise line marketing and research told me that the number 1 criticism of cruise passengers is the traditional “cattle call” dining. The number 2 criticism is formal wear requirements especially on resort destination cruises like the Caribbean. She also said that these are the 2 primary reasons potential new customers have not ever taken a cruise. NCL has been leading the industry in attracting first time cruisers primarily because of their free style cruise marketing

She told me that HAL is reacting to what current and potential new customers are telling them they want in the future and that Hal is not the only major line looking at this change. She expects Celebrity and RCCL to offer some form of AYWD by 2008. Carnival is also looking at the reported success that Princess has had the last 2years with open dining. The next big controversy will be formal wear and that we should expect major changes on this in the next 2 years industry wide. . As more and more mega ships and itineraries are added every year the market for first time cruisers is going to become much more competitive to fill these ships and the cruise lines will do what it takes to change the barriers that keep these potential new passengers from booking cruises. Most of us who are seasoned cruisers aren’t going to give up booking cruises over open dining and what we wear to dinner and the cruise lines know that.

I for one am in favor of the AYWD and somewhat divided on the formal wear policy. My 2 adult kids have never been on a cruise for these reasons. My daughter who is a Marketing Manager for a major computer company has stated many times she and her husband will not take a cruise (we have tried to get them to go with us several times) because when on vacation they do not want to be told when and where to eat and the idea of formal wear on a warm weather destination cruise has no appeal. They both have to dress for success on the job and a vacation to them is leaving those clothes behind.

Stakeout -- Don't be discouraged. I was on the Noordam 12 August Alaska glacier bay cruise. On the formal nights, in the dining room, despite "As You Wish" dining, we were impressed with the elegant gowns and tuxes. In fact I commented to several of the women at other tables how lovely they looked. At the entrance, I saw the maitre d' politely discourage guests who were not suitable suited, encouraging them to change or to try the Lido. They complied. I haven't read this entire thread but if someone is suggesting that jeans and tees are common attire on formal nights in HAL dining rooms, that is definitely not my recent experience. What has changed is that many passengers, including myself, prefer some flexibility in the dinner HOUR, even at the expense of having different waiters on different nights.

Well stated Moveup, AYWD has NOTHING to do with the required dress for the evening in the dining room. I too am looking forward to the flexibility to dine when I choose not when the cruise line chooses. I think the sour apples on this thread against AYWD are trying to create a whole other issue about the required dress fro dinner. Several seem to use the possibility wearing of jeans and “t” shirts in the dining room as a rationale for not having any flexible dining options on HAL. NCL’s freestyle has both open dining and no formal nights as part of their cruise style. Unless HAL makes a total change to NCL’s marketing (which I don’t see happening) we will not see jeans in the dining room for dinner on HAL.

The traditional dining times on cruise lines is on its way out and within 2 to 3 years all the major lines will adopt some form of AYWD. Marketing studies in the industry have shown that the number one reason people have never taken a cruise is the “traditional” dining concept. Attracting new first time cruise passengers is the only way the cruise industry can continue to grow and expand.

It also leaves Crystal, Fred. Olsen, Saga, and Cunard!

 

NH BOB my point exactly! Most likely in 2 years there will be very little in the way of cruising choices for the HAL cruisers to go that can’t accept the AYWD and HAL knows that as well. I do not see Crystal, Saga or Fred Olsen as viable cruise alternatives for HAL cruisers.

This whole discussion about flexible dining is probable a moot point and something all future cruisers will have to accept. From the information I have heard from very knowledgeable people in the cruise travel industry within the next 2 to 3 years some form of flexible dining will be the norm.

For the seasoned HAL cruisers that have stated on this forum they will take their business elsewhere, I ask where? Insiders tell me that Celebrity and RCCL will most likely make the change next year and that Carnival is taking a serious look too after the reported success of Princess. That leaves maybe Costa and a couple of other smaller lines, even the most of the super premium lines have some form of flexible dining hours.

II say fantastic to the AYWD or some other flexible dining. No more having to rush back to the ship from shore excursions to dress and make dinner at 6:00. No more missing the sail away from the ports. No more having to eat on the Lido deck or in our cabin because we missed our “Traditional” 6:15 seating. We can now go to the Crows Nest for a drink during the port sail away at 6 or 7 and have diner when we want at 7 or 7:30 in the main dining room. HAL’s traditional 5:45 or 6:15 is too early to eat and 8 or 8:30 is way to late. Based on the information that Celebrity may change to flex dining next year we have booked a September 2008 Mediterranean cruise on the Century. On this itinerary most of the port departures are 6 or 7 pm.

This whole discussion about flexible dining is probable a moot point and something all future cruisers will have to accept. From the information I have heard from very knowledgeable people in the cruise travel industry within the next 2 to 3 years some form of flexible dining will be the norm.

For the seasoned HAL cruisers that have stated on this forum they will take their business elsewhere, I ask where? Insiders tell me that Celebrity and RCCL will most likely make the change next year and that Carnival is taking a serious look too after the reported success of Princess. That leaves maybe Costa and a couple of other smaller lines, even the most of the super premium lines have some form of flexible dining hours.

II say fantastic to the AYWD or some other flexible dining. No more having to rush back to the ship from shore excursions to dress and make dinner at 6:00. No more missing the sail away from the ports. No more having to eat on the Lido deck or in our cabin because we missed our “Traditional” 6:15 seating. We can now go to the Crows Nest for a drink during the port sail away at 6 or 7 and have diner when we want at 7 or 7:30 in the main dining room. HAL’s traditional 5:45 or 6:15 is too early to eat and 8 or 8:30 is way to late. Based on the information that Celebrity may change to flex dining next year we have booked a September 2008 Mediterranean cruise on the Century. On this itinerary most of the port departures are 6 or 7 pm.

A friend of mine who is an editor for a major travel industry magazine that is privy to a lot of cruise line marketing and research told me that the number 1 criticism of cruise passengers is the traditional “cattle call” dining. The number 2 criticism is formal wear requirements especially on resort destination cruises like the Caribbean. She also said that these are the 2 primary reasons potential new customers have not ever taken a cruise. NCL has been leading the industry in attracting first time cruisers primarily because of their free style cruise marketing

She told me that HAL is reacting to what current and potential new customers are telling them they want in the future and that Hal is not the only major line looking at this change. She expects Celebrity and RCCL to offer some form of AYWD by 2008. Carnival is also looking at the reported success that Princess has had the last 2years with open dining. The next big controversy will be formal wear and that we should expect major changes on this in the next 2 years industry wide. . As more and more mega ships and itineraries are added every year the market for first time cruisers is going to become much more competitive to fill these ships and the cruise lines will do what it takes to change the barriers that keep these potential new passengers from booking cruises. Most of us who are seasoned cruisers aren’t going to give up booking cruises over open dining and what we wear to dinner and the cruise lines know that.

I for one am in favor of the AYWD and somewhat divided on the formal wear policy. My 2 adult kids have never been on a cruise for these reasons. My daughter who is a Marketing Manager for a major computer company has stated many times she and her husband will not take a cruise (we have tried to get them to go with us several times) because when on vacation they do not want to be told when and where to eat and the idea of formal wear on a warm weather destination cruise has no appeal. They both have to dress for success on the job and a vacation to them is leaving those clothes behind.

This is exactly what I see as being a major problem of AYW dining. What's to stop someone from having their TA set them up for traditional dining and then using that slot as a "fallback" position only. Say they sign up for late seating and are assigned a spot at a table for six in traditional. But, maybe half the nights of the cruise they decide they don't want to wait until 8:30 to dine ... or perhaps they want to dine just the two of them that night ... and so they go to the AYW dining instead. Now that couple has tied up a spot in traditional, plus are overflowing into the AYW dining room. What that's gonna mean is a lot of empty seats in traditional on many nights, while the AYW area is filled to overflowing, with lines forming.

 

 

--rita

When we booked on the Volendam for November 23 for 3 cabins (6 pax) we were confirmed at the 6:15 traditional seating, a little early for our taste, but better than 8:00, which is way to late. When HAL made the change to AYW we were put on the 5:45 seating and that is just too early. I had the TA inquire about being on traditional and opting to do AYW on nights we didn’t want to eat at 5:45. TA said HAL told her that if you are booked for a traditional seating you can not use the AYW dining reservation system and that you could only get a table on a walk up basis, to discourage changing back and forth. So we immediately gave up our 5:45 table for 6 for the AYW dining option so we can eat when we want not when they want us too. Our whole group personally thanks HAL for making the bold move to make this change over to open dining.