Just off Zuiderdam 12/30/04 - 1/8/05 "Ship of Fools"

[Deals147]

Dave....gotta love that! That's the bright side I'm looking for!

[Renorita]

Rude passengers are not unique to HAL. We were on the Star Princess in mid December and suffered similar experiences. But - still a great cruise. We were on the Zuiderdam last June and enjoyed it immensly. Question: What is the definition of "fully stocked no host minibars" in HAL suites?

 

OMG Mike, I saw some rude people on RCCI and Carnival as well as Princess. It must be contagious! :D All Kidding aside, I guess we have been pretty lucky, as we have been able to "ignore the boar" (sp.?) and side-step most situations. I still try to imagine what I would have done if I had seen a old naked man in the men's bathroom. Being a Psych nurse, I am sure I would have said something like, "Oh you just won first prize in the floral contest for the "best dried up arrangement"! :eek: Yes, I have accidently walked into the men's room by mistake before, so it is not an impossible situation. :o

[HeatherInFlorida]

Excuse me, Heather, but rather than taking such exception to Tyman's observation on the path this thread is heading.

(Weve all seen it before...The typical turn towards the "what the world 'owes'

us a seniors is a nice quiet ship without poor mannered children)

You should excercise a little practice what you preach sister!

I believe most of the thread should be focused on tolerance and how to look for the best in people, places and situations...

rather than the same old "South Florida" story....let me educate you about us rare "born and raised" Florida folks.

Having had the exclusive ability to be one of the few true born Floridians, I can personally attest to the attitude in South Florida.

Try to work in a service industry in South Florida, particularly on the west coast, they will eat you alive - after they have finished with their children.

Believe me, people like you are no exception there!

I think the Tyman was just trying to settle you old fogies down a bit and try to get you accept the things that you really can't change.

Instead of driving everyone around you crazy with the never-ending complaints.

Maybe, one day...all of us 'kids' and our children will be able to book a cruise that limits it's guests to no public complaints.

Now that would be one fun time!

 

Deals, in your evidently short time on these boards you've managed to do something no one else has. I don't understand a word you said.

 

I do gather that you think I'm complaining. I'm not, I didn't. I said that no matter who you are ... old or young, Floridian or New Yorker, European or Canadian, et al ... you're going to find someone on a cruiseship who's going to annoy you in one way or another.

 

No one gets to decide where a thread goes. They take on a life of their own. There was no argument on this thread and I tried to point that out. Everyone was just giving their own version of their own "Ship of Fools". No one is going to agree on what that might be.

 

In the course of human events, people are going to complain. If that upsets you as you say, then I honestly don't think the CC boards are going to be a place you enjoy visiting.

[Oceanwench]

Talk about being intolerant!!!

 

Deals, you extolled the virtue of tolerance in a previous post in this thread ... but you are showing a lack thereof.

 

As a transplanted Northerner living in the Sunshine State, I've not come across many native Floridians.

But if you're all for leaving the state to the natives, I guess we'll all have to leave it ... to the various American Indian tribes.

 

Peace.

[HeatherInFlorida]

You tell 'em, Ocean:) . I decided not to reply further. It obviously fell on deaf ears so I gave up.

[HeatherInFlorida]

You tell 'em, Ocean:) . I decided not to reply further. It obviously fell on deaf ears so I gave up. I'm going to leave this thread to people far more capable than I:o .

[Renorita]

With all the dissention on this thread, my last post got totally ignored! :( And I was trying so hard to lighten up this discussion! Which discussions could be more meaningful and informative, and less demeaning.

[TYMAN]

RENORITA....I didn't ignore it, I'm still laughing! Thanks for the great attitude!

[watchdiva]

Why is it that so many HAL threads start out funny and informative and a pleasure to read, only to descend into silly snits between posters? I celebrate the differences in opinion we all have but it's getting to the point where I don't even bother to read the boards daily (my practice when I booked my first HAL cruise last October) since the sniping in many threads just gets to be too much.

 

I truly do not understand............

[Oceanwench]

On every message board I've ever participated in -- save one -- there is inevitably one or two hot-button items that cause these tiffs.

I've been a member on a music-related message board since 1999 and I've seen this type of thing go in cycles ...

Sometimes the most innocuous post leads to fighting throughout the thread.

One person sets off another, then defenders of each step forward with their 2 cents.

 

The one board I've been on that does not have this problem has very strict controls on what can be said -- and the minute there is any fighting, the posts are deleted!

 

It's just human nature - many people don't tolerate another's point of view!

[Giorgi-one]

I have to agree that, in general, LOW PRICES EQUALS LOW CLASS. Please note that I am not rich and I love the low prices. I just got my copy of Conde Naste Traveler which lists the top resorts in the world. Many of these charge over $500 per night. Can you imagine someone in any of these resorts doing any of the things described in this post? I rest my case.

[ekerr19]

Why is it that so many HAL threads start out funny and informative and a pleasure to read, only to descend into silly snits between posters? I celebrate the differences in opinion we all have but it's getting to the point where I don't even bother to read the boards daily (my practice when I booked my first HAL cruise last October) since the sniping in many threads just gets to be too much.

 

I truly do not understand............

 

Because people like Deals147 take pot shots at other posters. Talk about "practicing what you preach, sister!" (Deals147 quote, not mine ;) )

 

Deals - we've all cruised with enough unruly kids to know they DO exist - along with the parents that choose to ignore their offensive behavior. If you have spent any time on this board you will know that there are many of us who cruise with our kids and support good cruise etiquette for children.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Thank you, ekerr:) . In answer to Watchdiva, I also want to point out that there are people on these boards who love to go on threads and shake things up. They say stuff they know will get others upset like the quote Ekerr mentioned. It's a little hard not to defend yourself when people do that.

 

This thread was not argumentative until that happened. It was just an exchange of experiences folks had had with a number of different types of unruly passengers.

Georgi, while you may be partically right in what you say ... having a ton of money to spend does not necessarily mean you have good manners. In fact, I know a number of people who expect that simply because they are disgustingly wealthy they have the right to be obnoxious. We've stayed at some pretty high end resorts over the years and I've seen people treat other human beings in ways you would not believe.

[ekerr19]

Heather-

 

I agree! This post did not have to become argumentative - and I still can't fathom why it did... I posted about my own experience with the "ship of fools", but it had nothing to do with anyone in the elder (or retired) population... my parents (in their 80's) are some of the nicest, down-to-earth people you'll meet... my problem on HAL has been those in my OWN generation (and younger), who think they are just "it" - AND have obnoxious, spoiled kids.

 

To all -

 

Dr.FeelGood posted about "ship of fools" - we've all (unfortunately) experienced our personal "ship of fools"... what bothers me is the personalization of the derogatory remarks by some posters - no one was being specific enough to garner the wrath of anyone...

[dakrewser]

To all -

 

Dr.FeelGood posted about "ship of fools" - we've all (unfortunately) experienced our personal "ship of fools"... what bothers me is the personalization of the derogatory remarks by some posters - no one was being specific enough to garner the wrath of anyone...

 

Some people insist on taking every post personally, as if it was meant specifically to criticize them. They then react (and respond) "in kind" (it seems), with a personal attack.

 

Now I'm not one to avoid a good argument (really, I'm not! :rolleyes: ) but I do find it best to avoid (and ignore, as much as possible) the personal attacks and concentrate on the facts of the discussion.

 

If only more people were like me (and, of course, like you, Laura! :) ).

 

My DW just said that if more people were like me that the world would be a much smaller place. Much more argumentative, but smaller - as we blasted pieces of it away!

 

:o -dave

[ekerr19]

dave-

 

I agree with you :D - but when I read the unwarranted attack on Heather, it just ticked me off and left me cold about the boards. Sure, we all "agree to disagree" at times, but I think we can be concise and eloquent enough to give reason why - not just "practice what you preach, sister" coming from someone who doesn't appear to know Heather at all and who has posted a whole three times.

 

You are just as opinionated as some of the rest of us (and please, it's no "dis" from me!) - I will continue to defend those posters and those beliefs I agree with. :)

 

When was the last time we saw you "avoid" a good argument? I don't - and you shouldn't.

 

I can't wait to cruise with you and your DW. We'd have a great time, I'm sure. :)

[TYMAN]

Here's the problem I have...and why I chimed in. This thread was about one person's experience with the elderly. I thought the whole thing was pretty funny, but as usually, these threads take a different, yet predictably direction. "Why I hate travelling with children" direction. We all know people of all ages can make for unpleasant times but why always end up the same way??? I'm thinking we're all adults here.....ok, let's continue to bicker..

[HeatherInFlorida]

Some people insist on taking every post personally, as if it was meant specifically to criticize them. They then react (and respond) "in kind" (it seems), with a personal attack.

:o -dave

 

Dave, when my name is used in the sentence, it's personal. The post was clearly directed at me by the use of my name (is there another Heather here?) ... specifically to criticize me. Perhaps you missed it.

 

Tyman, you can't think for a minute that simply because the op is about elderly passengers that it's not going to divert from there. If one person had a bad time with elderly passengers, someone else is going to talk about a problem with young passengers and so on. Frankly it was all very friendly until you took issue with someone telling their own personal experience.

[Candy]

That's not unusual... I have been told to take the garment to my cabin or the nearest ladies' room to try it on, since there is no dressing room in the shop.

 

...snip...

I was on a cruise last summer and a women was changing in the Bathroom out of the skirt she bought from the ships shop and wore with the tags on and tucked under,:eek: she took it off and put it back in the bag to return to the shops!!:rolleyes:

[TYMAN]

Heather....Because you have issues with Deals it's now my fault? As I've stated, certain posters always go back to the kids being the problem, no matter how the thread starts. It's easy to see. I try not to make any of this personal...and this certainly isn't, but I will state MO...ok?

[Oceanwench]

I just went back to reread the OP.

While Dr. Feelgood did specify there were some "seasoned citizens" exhibiting rude behavior, he also spoke of pax in general causing turmoil in lines and at tables in the Lido. He did not specify the age of those pax ... so perhaps there were people of all ages acting boorishly on his cruise.

 

HOWEVER ... these threads are stream-of-consciousness type of writing.

The OP talks about his experiences with rude pax, and then the rest of us who have memories of similar bad behavior chime in.

It shouldn't matter whether we're recalling the 10-year-olds taking over the hot tub [without parental presence], the 20-somethings hogging the chaises by the pool, the 40-somethings saving tables in the Lido, the 60-somethings saving seats in the theater ...

We are sharing experiences here -- and opinions -- and the Topic Police shouldn't feel the need to chastise someone for allegedly straying from the OP.

 

That's what makes this so much fun, IMO. You never know where you'll end up, which way the thread will develop.

If it strays too much off-topic and I lose interest, I go to another thread ... I don't get offended.

 

What I object to in this, and in other threads, is when a discussion/argument turns personal ... and one poster personally attacks another -- attacking WHO the person is, not WHAT the person says.

[TYMAN]

Topic Police...good one. Well, I'm bored....I'm moving on.

[garykool81]

I've been meaning to post the altercation I noticed about my recent Zuiderdam cruise on these boards, but didn't get a chance to do so until today...so here goes...

 

I was on the 12/18/04 sailing of Zuiderdam and witnessed probably the most low-class behavior of a passenger I have ever seen just while strolling through a hallway towards the bow of the ship.

 

(Let me make it clear that it is NOT children who are the problem...it is BAD PARENTS who are the problem. Younger kids often don't know any better, because their parents have never taught them to behave like human beings.)

 

A recently married couple were sharing an inside cabin across the way from a family whose children were apparently bugging the heck out of them -- running up and down the halls screaming, knocking on their door and then running away, etc. This was the first day of the cruise, and the passengers of the inside cabin were concerned (rightfully so) that their entire cruise would be obnoxiously loud and would cause them to lose sleep, stress out, etc.

 

They politely (I witnessed this first hand) asked the father of this children, whose cabin door was open as the kids were running around, to control his kids and quiet them down so they could get some sleep. The man, who was an intimidating 6'3"ish, 250+ pounds, shaved head and somewhat drunk with beer in hand, missed not a single beat and lashed out against the passengers who had complained.

 

He told them to "...mind your own f****** business."

 

The complainer, now upset, mentioned something about "...respecting those around you," in reference to the drunk man's lack of good parenting and general attitude of not caring about those passengers residing around his cabin.

 

The drunk man, this time becoming threatening, said something along the lines of, "Why don't you come over here, and I'll teach you some respect myself...if you know what's good for you, you'll go back in your cabin."

 

At this point, the wife of the inside passenger's cabin came out and exclaimed "Excuse me! Did you just threaten my husband?!"

 

They continued to argue, while the larger passenger with the outside cabin and kids became more threatening, etc.

 

At this point, my partner and I decided that we should take another route and cut back across to the other side of Zuiderdam and continued on our route. Had I been in that same situation, I would have closed my door, called security, then made my way to guest relations, spoken with a manager, and *demanded* that the man be removed from Zuiderdam at the first port of call as he had violated Holland America's code of conduct for passengers and security protocal.

 

That said, we re-learned an important lesson about why we never vacation during times of the year where children/college students/families are off from school/work.

 

On the cruises and vacations we've taken NOT during a spring/winter/summer break, we've seen plenty of families that are perfectly polite with very well behaved children. There is something about these school break periods, though, that attract a little more of a "rough" clientele, IMO.

[RuffinReady]

Dave, what happened to that great picture that you had of that scene at the beach? :D

 

Ruffin

[dakrewser]

Dave, what happened to that great picture that you had of that scene at the beach? :D

 

Ruffin

 

Shh! The DW was getting suspicious! :rolleyes:

 

-dave